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Old 11-13-2019, 09:25 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
Yes, it would have. The fact that he didn't is why we're having this sidebar, is it not?

I mean, the Trump/Zelensky call was one day after the Mueller testimony. Do you think the call happens if Mueller unequivocally said the above? Probably not, for, as reported, Trump was emboldened by Mueller's performance.

Hell, it could even be argued that had Mueller been more forceful, Trump wouldn't have betrayed our allies in yet another phone call made post-Mueller hearing.
Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
You keep trying to draw some drop-dead nexus between one thing and the other, and it's complete bullshit as if Trump was emboldened on July 25, 2019, and not beforehand.

The earliest known contact where Rudy Giuliani sent his henchmen to meet with Ukrainian officials was clear back in 2018. You believe Giuliani was doing this because... why? On his own initiative, nothing to do with Trump? No, wait, we don't have to guess. Per Wikipedia:

(Emphasis mine)

It's also painfully obvious you have no idea how the whole subpoena thing would have gone. Mueller would have wasted literally years trying to obtain testimony that would never have consisted of more than, "I assert my rights under the Fifth Amendment." I'm sure you'd have been the first one whining if Mueller had in fact pursued Trump's (non) testimony and not submitted his report until, oh, May 2021.
This Ukraine thing has nothing to do with Mueller, but thanks for trying to conflate the two issues.

The obvious fact that Trump was emboldened by Mueller's testimony was cited earlier in this thread, er, bolded above.

Here's some more, as you seem to be confused on this issue:

Trump: Mueller's congressional testimony was 'a great day for me'

Trump claims victory in wake of Mueller testimony

Trump, after Mueller testimony to House, says Republican Party had good day

To read the news articles from that day, the line from the reaction to Mueller's testimony to the call the very next day is evident.

Yes, you are correct - this Ukrainian deal was going on prior to July 25th. But due to Mueller's testimony, Trump thought he was in the clear and started openly doing that which was previously clandestine. And so a bunch of people who weren't in the know suddenly came into the know, and alarm bells were rung.

I'm stunned that this obvious sequence of events is even being questioned, to be honest. The entire reason this Ukraine thing blew up is because Trump thought he was legitimized by Mueller's testimony.

Last edited by JohnT; 11-13-2019 at 09:28 AM.