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Old 03-27-2015, 05:33 PM
Do Not Taunt is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbonden View Post
I think that you each are right here. The benefit was not that Jay got counsel - all defendants are entitled to that. The benefit was the timing: Jay got access to counsel before he was indicted.

It's certainly a benefit, but it doesn't fit any traditional understanding of "getting paid" and it is easy to believe that Jay would have no idea that the right to free counsel attached only later (or upon invocation, which he did not do).
Jay is entitled to counsel, whether he can afford it or not, under Gideon v. Wainwright. But, in addition to the timing point you raise, there's the point that Jay wasn't charged for it (I'm not sure on Maryland law specifically, but states charging defendants for their public defenders' time is consistent with Gideon), and the DA arranged for him pro bono representation. He did not go through the public defender program. That's why the judge agreed Jay received a benefit (ie, was paid.) She just didn't believe he was materially tampered with.

Quote:
Even setting aside Adnan's many inconsistencies (which are possibly as numerous as Jay's, and more damning), I am not sure how this is "about it." This is a lot.

Jay knowing where the car is = Jay is complicit. Period, end of story. I said this upthread, but it is infuriating that the podcast spent time on payphones and butt-dialing, rather than the single most important fact in the case, certainly is tops.

Leakin Park cell phone = confirmation that Jay is complicit. Hae almost certainly was buried pre-ice storm. That means January 13. Jay being near the body is just further confirmation of his complicity.

And then - again, even setting aside all of Adnan's inconsistencies - you have the complete absence of any compelling alternate theory that involves Jay, but not Adnan. I mean, Adnan's lawyer was well-known and effective, at least earlier in her career. The lawyer had clerks, and a private detective. Adnan had friends who supported, and still support, him. There was a podcast team doing its own investigation with (some of ) the resources of NPR. There was the innocence project that the podcast got involved. There is the reddit community and thousands upon thousands of followers in the crowdsourced world. And yet - no truly plausible alternate stories. That's not DNA, or a carpet fiber, or an eyewitness. But it is strongly, strongly indicative of the final result.
I actually agree that between Jay knowing about the car and the Leakin Park cell phone calls, there's a reasonable case there. But it's not enough: if those were literally the only two facts, it would be easy to put together a counter-narrative that Jay committed the murder, buried Hae, and had Adnan's cell phone the whole time. That's what the state attempted to actually put together a narrative, answering questions such as:

* When and where did the murder occur
* When was the body buried
* Who was involved
* What did the principals do in the meantime
* What did they do prior to the murder

And there's a fair amount of supporting evidence in there. The problem, thought, is that they ultimately relied on a witness who gave contradictory accounts, none of which matched actual evidence (the cell phone records), and presented a timeline at trial that didn't happen. They lucked out and caught a jury that didn't really care and let their biases slip into their decision making against the judge's instructions. But it should bother all of us that the state can do such a sloppy job and get a conviction at the end. And that should bother us regardless of how much we think Adnan 'did it', because it contradicts our ideals of how our criminal justice system should work: that defendants are supposed to have the presumption of innocence, they they should have an unbiased jury, and that the state is supposed to meet a high bar of burden of proof. Sadly, I didn't see any of that happen here.