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Old 01-02-2013, 03:30 PM
rat avatar rat avatar is offline
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 4,181
Originally Posted by China Guy View Post
Sheesh, trying to get a point to even discuss.

1. Here's data that's more than 10 years old that shows after the gun ban in England murders/firearm murders going up
2. Counterpoint that the most recent 10 years that shows after the gun ban in England, murders/firearm deaths went down
3. Counter counter point: doesn't count because you didn't prove a causative effect

Well, bugger me with a fishfork, data and assumptions are valid when they support gun ownership, and a far higher bar for even a discussion if it's the opposite view.

There is a correlation in England. Whether it is significant or causative is something that is up for debate. Not sure why this point is so difficult to accept?

No, the correlation would have started to happen in 1997 if it was causative not in 2001. But heck...can you even provide a UK government source that claims that the law caused the downturn in the homicide rate?

In a "Cite" from Really Not All That Bright in another thread it seems that NO actions of the Police or Government were the cause of the downturn in the homicide rate.

Statisticians say the figures broadly mirror reductions elsewhere in the developed world, so it would be unfair of politicians, police or doctors here to claim the credit for a phenomenon that appears to be driven by something more fundamental.

Nevertheless, officials believe that efforts to bear down on domestic and family-related violence, which account for two-thirds of killings, is a key factor in the homicide fall.

Police and probation officers have made huge strides in recent years in identifying people who are at risk of attack and ensuring violent criminals are monitored more effectively.

But it is quite clear that "Evidence" is not what your argument is based on so I don't know how we can have a debate if it is purely dogma.

Last edited by rat avatar; 01-02-2013 at 03:30 PM.