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Old 05-10-2019, 01:08 AM
clairobscur is offline
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,920
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Transgender women aren't "claiming to be women" -- they are women. You appear to be confusing gender with biological sex.
That's an article of faith, not an objective statement. It entirely depends on your definition of "woman", and this definition is clearly disputed. You can't advance it as fact, only as something that you wish would be true or think would be better. Your opinion that the definition of woman should be based entirely on gender identity without reference to biological sex is clearly not shared by everybody and there's no objective, indisputable way to establish what the definition of "woman" should be.

And even if you managed to have everybody agree that the definition of woman should be entirely based on gender identity, you still wouldn't have a general agreement that actual gender identity is the the same as gender self-identification. Besides the trivial example of someone lying, you can't demonstrate for instance that the TERF argument according to which you can't really have a female identity if you were born a boy because you haven't been subject to the same extent to the patriarchal pressures that mold a female identity, thus creating an unbridgeable gap between a biological woman and a trans woman is objectively false.

On top of it, as exemplified by this other thread going on, biological sex can't necessarily be objectively established, either.

The concept of woman is based on a binary division where each category is assumed to have all the characteristics associated with this category. As soon as you introduce concepts like gender identity being different from biological sex and such, or the idea that both gender identity and biological sex are fuzzy concepts, you don't have anymore a clear, generally accepted, and valid in all circumstances, definition of what a woman is, and as a result can't determine objectively whether such or such person should be deemed a woman in some or all circumstances. Everything that has to do with sex and gender is based in large part on arbitrary social conventions and as a result heavily disputable, and definitely not resolved by pronouncements ex cathedra by you or others.

You might have extremely good intentions and feel that you're sparing people grief by acknowledging without reservation their gender self-identification, but being nice shouldn't go as far as distorting reality. To be clear, it's fine to call someone a woman if she self identify as such, but it's not to make absolute statements like "transwomen are women" when you'd be hard pressed to define objectively and indisputably what a "woman" is, what "gender" is, etc... It might sound as nitpicking about the meaning of words, but it becomes important when competing interests are at play in which situation being nice amounts to playing favorites, and stating "transwomen are women" amounts to saying : "your concerns are objectively unfounded" when of course, you can't decide objectively, to take the example given in the article, that the subjective distress of a transwoman denied access to the women locker room should be given more importance than the subjective distress of a woman seeing a person with a dick in her locker room.
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