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Old 05-12-2019, 09:05 PM
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AHunter3 is offline
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NY (Manhattan) NY USA
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A lot of the toxicity of either expression comes from treating other people in a rigidly gendered way. Maintaining incredibly reductionistic and shitty views of the sex that is considered opposite.

90% of what remains is aimed at the same sex, and seems to take the form "If I've gotta compete in these masculinity (or femininity) sweepstakes, so do you, and yo, you're falling short and I'm gonna win brownie points by pointing out your shortcomings".

Some of what is described as toxic masculinity is a self-immersed race to the most aggressive and triumphant adversarial winner-position and if it ever had to do with how female folk viewed it that got lost in the endeavor. It's nearly all aimed at the same sex, shaming other males about not measuring up to masculinity standards (we forget why it mattered...)

A meaningful percentage of toxic femininity is about policing -- "if you break the rules you may screw things up for the rest of us". It is, after all, a patriarchy. You could perhaps argue that it is moving towards a post-patriarchal system but if so the transition is spanning multiple generations and not finished by any means. And because it has historically been a patriarchy, women's social postion even at best has been more dependent on marketing one's self within an attenuated list of possibilities, and the oppressed do tend to lash out horizontally for lack of being able to lash out otherwise; and any women who didn't play by girl rules of appropriate conduct could indeed mess up things for other women and were at least as often resented for it as admired for what they got away with.

Last edited by AHunter3; 05-12-2019 at 09:05 PM.