Straight Dope Message Board

[buddha_david]

It's a common trope in fantasy and science fiction for non-human races like elves and Vulcans to sport distinctive, pointy ears. In fact, Spock's pointy ears were developed as a really inexpensive way to make him instantly recognizable as an alien species.

Which makes me wonder -- why don't pointy ears exist as a natural human feature? Most mammals have pointy-ish ears, from rodents to cats to antelope. It's only the primate species which have those boring round ears, which really aren't as effective in gathering sound. But that's what they evolved, so we humans are stuck with them.

Is there any physiological reason why pointy ears wouldn't work with humans? Or is it just an accident of evolution that we don't have people walking around who resemble Legolas?

[Chronos]

Animals with pointy ears have them on the top of their heads, where the ears can be pointed in different directions to pin down the direction a sound is coming from. Human ears are on the sides of our heads, and can't really point any way except to the sides, so there's no advantage for us to have points.

[panache45]

Originally Posted by buddha_david

. . . an accident of evolution . . .

All evolution begins with random mutations, or "accidents." If the mutation never happens, the effects will never exist. No pointy ears.

[Lucas Jackson]

Personally I believe it's because evolution doesn't have a sense of whimsy.

[Hilarity N. Suze]

(1) nobody had them, in the first place, and...

(2) apparently we got along fine that way.

[Chief Pedant]

Because they make you ugly without producing some other physical advantage.

So they therefore do not drive a reproductive advantage since fewer individuals will choose mates with pointy ears.

[John DiFool]

Originally Posted by White SIFL

Personally I believe it's because evolution doesn't have a sense of whimsy.

Eru's gift to mankind lies in another direction.

[Mister Rik]

My aunt has one pointy elf ear.

[solosam]

There's rarely a point to asking why something "didn't" happen. There's often no answer. From an evolutionary perspective, if a mutation offers no advantage to the perpetuation of the species, it is unlikely to perpetuate.

If we all had pointy ears, someone would probably be on the internet asking why we don't have round ears.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Originally Posted by John DiFool

Eru's gift to mankind lies in another direction.

"Oh, wow! Death! Gee, thanks, Eru!"

[Leo Bloom]

Originally Posted by Mister Rik

My aunt has one pointy elf ear.

Did she bear offspring?

[Senegoid]

Originally Posted by Chief Pedant

Because they make you ugly without producing some other physical advantage.

So they therefore do not drive a reproductive advantage since fewer individuals will choose mates with pointy ears.

Cartoon I saw once somewhere:

First panel: Vulcan child sitting on the ground, looking very dour. Three other Vulcan children, pointing and laughing, saying "Spock has pointy ears! Spock has pointy ears!"

Second panel: Spock says: "Your remarks are highly illogical. We all have pointy ears."

Third panel: The other three Vulcan children are putting their hands on their ears, investigating their shape.

Fourth panel: All four Vulcan children are sitting on the ground, looking very dour.

[CatastrophicFailure]

If most mammals have "pointy-ish" ears, doesn't that make our round ears distinctive?

[Kedikat]

Most of the time, evolution tries to balance survival by using the minimum amount of equipment required. Even a bit of extra ear cost a little energy to keep alive. However. If pointy ears had become some sexual attraction, then they might have become extravagantly long and pointy.

[naita]

Originally Posted by buddha_david

It's only the primate species which have those boring round ears, which really aren't as effective in gathering sound.

Who wants to tell the grizzly bear that it's actually a primate?

[t-bonham@scc.net]

Originally Posted by buddha_david

It's a common trope in fantasy and science fiction for non-human races like elves and Vulcans to sport distinctive, pointy ears. In fact, Spock's pointy ears were developed as a really inexpensive way to make him instantly recognizable as an alien species.

Pointy ears imply muscles* to aim the points in various directions, to locate a sound. Such extra layers of muscles along the neck & collarbone make the idea of a 'Vulcan nerve pinch' quite unlikely and nonsensical.

But then it's TV; it doesn't have to make sense.

*Humans have some such muscles, but atrophied & minuscule.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by buddha_david

Most mammals have pointy-ish ears, from rodents to cats to antelope. It's only the primate species which have those boring round ears...

I disagree with this statement of fact. Most rodents have sort of round-ish shell-like ears. Antelope and other deer have ears that are typically erect, but only a little bit pointy (and quite round in most cases) - and even then, not really pointy in the elfin/Vulcan sense.

[dtilque]

Originally Posted by Mister Rik

My aunt has one pointy elf ear.

Originally Posted by Leo Bloom

Did she bear offspring?

By all reports, half-elves should be interfertile with humans.....

[bob++]

So how many of you can wiggle your ears - pricking them up I think? I can only find uncited statements that suggest it's 10 to 20% of us.

[Mijin]

Originally Posted by Senegoid

Cartoon I saw once somewhere:

First panel: Vulcan child sitting on the ground, looking very dour. Three other Vulcan children, pointing and laughing, saying "Spock has pointy ears! Spock has pointy ears!"

Second panel: Spock says: "Your remarks are highly illogical. We all have pointy ears."

Third panel: The other three Vulcan children are putting their hands on their ears, investigating their shape.

Fourth panel: All four Vulcan children are sitting on the ground, looking very dour.

I thought you were going for a 100 blue eyes-style problem for a moment there.

Like if Spock said "At least one of you has pointy ears, and anyone that realizes that they have pointy ears will become sad"

[DrFidelius]

Originally Posted by Mister Rik

My aunt has one pointy elf ear.

Some of the "souvenirs" of the Ring War have become embarrassments to the families of the veterans. It was a different time.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by bob++

So how many of you can wiggle your ears - pricking them up I think? I can only find uncited statements that suggest it's 10 to 20% of us.

I can't do it on purpose, but I do sometimes feel them move if I am surprised by a noise behind me.

[jtur88]

Most people have never noticed, in the Donald Duck conic strips, illustrated characters who are not members of the Duck family are dogs if male and cats if female. The dog-males have round black noses and pendant floppy ears, and females have pointy cat ears, and still look humanoid enough that the reader does not notice the consistency of the characteristics.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by jtur88

Most people have never noticed, in the Donald Duck conic strips, illustrated characters who are not members of the Duck family are dogs if male and cats if female. The dog-males have round black noses and pendant floppy ears, and females have pointy cat ears, and still look humanoid enough that the reader does not notice the consistency of the characteristics.

I never saw them as cats and dogs, just dogs with ears that hang low vs hang high. Though my exposure is mostly in cartoon form from Ducktales and such.

[gnoitall]

Originally Posted by Mister Rik

My aunt has one pointy elf ear.

Originally Posted by DrFidelius

Some of the "souvenirs" of the Ring War have become embarrassments to the families of the veterans. It was a different time.

"Yo auntie wears Orcish combat boots!"

[Sailboat]

Originally Posted by panache45

All evolution begins with random mutations, or "accidents." If the mutation never happens, the effects will never exist. No pointy ears.

Insufficient number of mechanical rice picker accidents.

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by Leo Bloom

Did she bear offspring?

Several, but none inherited the pointy ear.

Originally Posted by Kedikat

Most of the time, evolution tries to balance survival by using the minimum amount of equipment required. Even a bit of extra ear cost a little energy to keep alive. However. If pointy ears had become some sexual attraction, then they might have become extravagantly long and pointy.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...cfa6a454e9.jpg

[furryman]

I have pointed ears, buy they don't look like elf or Vulcan ears.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net

*Humans have some such muscles, but atrophied & minuscule.

Unless you're Henry Rollins...

[Leo Bloom]

I do not see (or it has not been shown) why directional acoustic collectors should be pointy.

Given the 3-D scoop, which is the way to go (yay Nature!) perhaps "optimal" stiffness to strain considerations of cartilage come into play.

[Ornery Bob]

Most of the time, evolution tries to balance survival by using the minimum amount of equipment required.

Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. Evolution doesn't have an agenda and isn't trying to do anything. Random mutations simply happen. Some get passed along and some don't. Some have survival advantages and some don't. There's no "balance" that is some sort of goal. Evolution simply happens, there's no destination.

[Senegoid]

Originally Posted by Ornery Bob

Most of the time, evolution tries to balance survival by using the minimum amount of equipment required.

Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. Evolution doesn't have an agenda and isn't trying to do anything. Random mutations simply happen. Some get passed along and some don't. Some have survival advantages and some don't. There's no "balance" that is some sort of goal. Evolution simply happens, there's no destination.

No, it's not entirely nonsense. Random mutations tend to behave like a form of entropy: They tend to de-evolve from more elaborate structures toward more simple structures, UNLESS there is some adaptive preference toward the more elaborate structure.

For example: Certain species of mammals live in places where there is little or no light, and in these species, their eyes have tended to de-evolve and become vestigial. Bats, living in caves and coming out only at night, are famously blind. There are some species of dolphins that live in muddy river waters, and some of these species are nearly blind. Whales and dolphins, at some point in their history, had legs, but these have de-evolved. Some cetaceans have a vestigial pelvis and vestigial leg bones.

Yes, it's all in random mutations. But random mutations are as likely to add or subtract some structure. Absent some evolutionary pressure favoring the more elaborate structure, you tend to get regression.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by Senegoid

Bats, living in caves and coming out only at night, are famously blind.

No bats are actually blind. All have at least small, perfectly functional eyes. Many species are active in daylight and have good vision.

[TriPolar]

There's been no evidence presented here to show that humans never had pointy ears.

[Francis Vaughan]

There is some small amount of evidence ^* that guys with pointy ears are considered hot by some members of the opposite sex. YMMV

* Really sorry, you will need something very strong and alcoholic to wipe the memory of this seared into your brain.

[buddha_david]

Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan

There is some small amount of evidence ^* that guys with pointy ears are considered hot by some members of the opposite sex. YMMV

Ayup... in fact, it was this character who inspired me to ask this question.

[Bricker]

Originally Posted by Sailboat

Insufficient number of mechanical rice picker accidents.

City on the Edge of Forever, just so you know the reference wasn't lost.

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan

There is some small amount of evidence ^* that guys with pointy ears are considered hot by some members of the opposite sex. YMMV
]

Then, why do plastic surgeons do so many nose-jobs and no pointy-ear-jobs?

[Tamerlane]

Originally Posted by jtur88

Then, why do plastic surgeons do so many nose-jobs and no pointy-ear-jobs?

Welllll...

[filmore]

The shape of the ear allows it to filter certain frequencies which help us figure out where a sound comes from. Computer headsets take advantage of this to trick your brain into thinking a sound is coming from front or behind depending on which frequencies are filtered out. Pointy ears might not be as good as this type of filtering and may be at a disadvantage at locating a sound (just guessing).

I would also guess that pointy ears might get a lot colder than rounded ears. Round ears can get pretty painful in cold weather. That pointy part that sticks out would be even harder to keep warm. That might also be a disadvantage.

[August West]

Originally Posted by Senegoid

No, it's not entirely nonsense. Random mutations tend to behave like a form of entropy: They tend to de-evolve from more elaborate structures toward more simple structures, UNLESS there is some adaptive preference toward the more elaborate structure.

For example: Certain species of mammals live in places where there is little or no light, and in these species, their eyes have tended to de-evolve and become vestigial. Bats, living in caves and coming out only at night, are famously blind. There are some species of dolphins that live in muddy river waters, and some of these species are nearly blind. Whales and dolphins, at some point in their history, had legs, but these have de-evolved. Some cetaceans have a vestigial pelvis and vestigial leg bones.

Yes, it's all in random mutations. But random mutations are as likely to add or subtract some structure. Absent some evolutionary pressure favoring the more elaborate structure, you tend to get regression.

Your bias as a sighted, legged creature is showing.

There's no reason to say "de-evolve", it's just evolution on a different path.

[Kenm]

How do you know you killed the wrong dinosaur when you return in the time machine with your T-Rex head?

The iPhone in the No Time At all Inc. return room is a triangle.

[Quercus]

Originally Posted by buddha_david

those boring round ears, which really aren't as effective in gathering sound.

Not to be all SDMB on you, but, uh, you got any evidence this is actually true? I mean, before we start arguing about why X improvement didn't happen, maybe we should figure out if X really is an improvement.

[cochrane]

How the hell do I know? I'm a doctor, dammit, not an anthropologist!

[bup]

Does anyone know what Homo sapiens' most recent ancestor was that had pointy ears?

[Leo Bloom]

Originally Posted by Leo Bloom

I do not see (or it has not been shown) why directional acoustic collectors should be pointy.

Given the 3-D scoop, which is the way to go (yay Nature!) perhaps "optimal" stiffness to strain considerations of cartilage come into play.

Ital added

Which I'm not sure is a supporting datum or not, or for which species: 3-D echolocation by virtue of the distance between the ears (which the electronics processor must mimic) is of use to the pointy and non-pointy folk.

But, as Galileo didn't say, all those critters got 'em. The scorecard Them: a million. Us: none. (Not to mention the second, heat transfer issue you mentioned.)

There a whole bunch of engineers on SD who know about antennas and acoustic engineering. Maybe they'll show up.

[Leo Bloom]

Originally Posted by Kenm

How do you know you killed the wrong dinosaur when you return in the time machine with your T-Rex head?

The iPhone in the No Time At all Inc. return room is a triangle.

It's been done: "Your Portable Connection to Everything in Space and Time"

http://theoffice.wikia.com/wiki/Pyramid

[Kenm]

Originally Posted by Leo Bloom

It's been done: "Your Portable Connection to Everything in Space and Time"

What a relief! The timeline isn’t screwed after all.

Yes, this is a fictional tablet, but it does remind me of the current iPad competition landscape. Too often we see products announced that tout specs, features and taglines that don’t reflect what consumers really want.

Although a notice pops up in Firefox telling me the video ID is invalid. The Time Corps should be informed!

[Leo Bloom]

Parrots, I might note, are on exception, in regard to external acoustic collection devices.

The Independent, 10/17/15: (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-a-parrot.html)

Who's a pretty boy then? Man cuts off his ears to look like a parrot
Ted Richards, 56, has already had his face and eyeballs tattooed, next he wants a surgeon to turn his nose into a beak

With pictures of the disgusting looking guy--but note, he's of mixed mind: he has pointy where-the-ears-were.

So take that, OP.

I wonder if the taxpayers' medical service in England paid for that.

[Bandi]

It's the second most common genetic ear mutation in humans, actually. (First being lop-ears.)

Darwin actually wrote a lot about the evolution or human ears. Which you can find a bit about by using Google.

I have pointed ears.

http://i.imgur.com/4fGLqX4.jpg