#101  
Old 03-23-2011, 07:24 AM
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I think it would make the giver kinda unpopular, but there really needs to be a frank conversation with every engaged couple. Something that says: Hey, at some point in time, odds are, you will experience the following:

1. the desire to sleep in another bed so you can get some sleep...that's not as big deal as you think
2. the lack of desire that might end your marriage...here's how you avoid it.
3. The loss of identity - here's how you maintain it.
4. The loss of an argument - here's what that means.
5. You will be strongly tempted to break your vows to get that 'high' again...here's where that leads.

and so on.

Heck, perhaps it'll be a series of envelopes that are delivered over time...something like 'Congratulations, you're in-line to experience the 7 year itch!'
  #102  
Old 03-23-2011, 08:59 AM
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While I agree that having to care for two small children can stress anyone and put a major damper on any libido, I don't think it's the cause in this case.
Rereading the OP...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris the 1st View Post
Other pertinent facts: We've been married 11 years, this started in year 2. We have 2 kids (5 & 3). I work full time, and we're in decent financial shape for one of the first times in our lives. She's in school getting her MA. We're both in our mid-30's.
...I see that her disinterest in sex with her husband began (according to his math) 9 years ago. That is three years before any pregnancy, and when the couple were in their early-to-mid twenties. So, although I certainly think it's a contributing factor at this time in their marriage, I think the problem may lie much deeper than being 'touched out' and stressed by her current Master's Degree work.
  #103  
Old 03-23-2011, 09:29 AM
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Hmm. I put up with a decade of an ex-SO's low libido. She refused to seek medical help, go to couples counselling, etc. I broke up with her repeatedly because of it and she begged me to take her back - and her libido switched itself back on again for about two weeks before it died again.

When we finally broke up for good she turned into a total cougar.

Turns out she only had a low libido for me. My self esteem is still trying to pull itself back together.


ETA: sorry, OP, that seems really pessimistic. I allowed my bitterness to get in the way of offering any advice. My advice is: in retrospect, I wish that I had pushed harder for counselling, and that I had called her bluff when she refused. We might have resolved things, or allowed her to realise she should go her separate way a lot earlier and not have caused so many years where I was deeply frustrated and felt terrible about myself.

Last edited by jjimm; 03-23-2011 at 09:32 AM.
  #104  
Old 03-23-2011, 10:11 AM
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jjimm, don't blame yourself for that. Some women need that 'newness', that early-relationship excitement, to validate their own lack of self confidence. 10 years...You knew her, you knew all her tricks and mystery, and for her that might have felt like losing some of her feminine power. Truly, chances are, it was really not you - it was her failing.

And to OP, I had a thought after chatting with some friends about this thread. If you rule out medical issues, you try talking, maybe counseling, you try re-connecting romantically, and you're still getting nowhere, there is the possibility that she's never enjoyed or wanted a lot of sex. Early in your relationship she may have seemed more sexual because she was in courting mode.

I'm obviously naive, because this surprised me - but both my friends acknowledged that early on it's easy to be more into sex - not just because of the actual excitement of a new relationship, but that desire to please someone you want to stick around.

I think sex is a critical part of a healthy relationship, and I hope your issue is one you can work through with her.
  #105  
Old 03-23-2011, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Unintentionally Blank View Post
I think it would make the giver kinda unpopular, but there really needs to be a frank conversation with every engaged couple.
I completely agree with you. We're planning on doing pre-marital counseling even though both of us have been married before just to maybe hear somethings that we haven't thought of, or maybe some hard truths that we're avoiding.
  #106  
Old 03-23-2011, 11:17 AM
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Heck, perhaps it'll be a series of envelopes that are delivered over time...something like 'Congratulations, you're in-line to experience the 7 year itch!'
"Prepare 3 envelopes."
  #107  
Old 03-23-2011, 11:40 AM
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Reminds me of an old joke about married couples only having hallway sex:

During the first 1.5–2 years of a marriage, the couple will have sex all over the house, at all times of day, several times a day, every day, in every imaginable position.

From Year 2 through about Year 5, the couple will have sex in the bed, missionary position, once or twice a week. Maybe.

After Year 5, couples just pass each other in the hallway and scream "FUCK YOU!" at each other.

  #108  
Old 03-23-2011, 12:45 PM
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Sensitive, new age guy post of the year.

It did make me laugh
Thank 'ee. But I'm more of a SNAG in real life, where I do much more than half the cooking, deal with the dishwasher at least half the time, get the kids' tea ready, and am the only one who can figure out anything technical like how to unblock the vacuum cleaner, operate the lawn mower, put food back into the fridge, install anything at all on the computer, or clean up dog shit or cat barf or dispose of the cat's hunting trophies. Admittedly I no longer bring in 75% of the household income like I did for the first fourteen years of our marriage. But it's full of compensations: Mrs M is slim, toned and gorgeous, we have fantastic sex four or five times a week... and I am Marie of Roumania. Ya gotta laugh how ya can.
  #109  
Old 03-23-2011, 04:06 PM
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Wow. Not to hijack, but what do you think is going to happen if you DO conceive and basically have a great excuse for the next 5 years to never have sex. I wouldn't want you to feel guilty, but you should wonder what the situation is going to be in the near future.
You must not have read her other threads...

This thread has a lot of good advice and a lot of very sad stories.
  #110  
Old 03-23-2011, 06:41 PM
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Threads like this just make me very sad.
  #111  
Old 03-24-2011, 12:24 AM
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When we finally broke up for good she turned into a total cougar.

Turns out she only had a low libido for me. My self esteem is still trying to pull itself back together.
I'm sorry you had to go through that situation.

I think it is instructive, though. I think women are told in various ways that "women just don't like sex as much as men," so when they are not really feeling it, they assume that is just the normal and natural way of relationships. They figure sex must not be that important to them, and focus on the other good parts of the relationship. If women had a better understanding of their sexuality, less of this stuff would happen.
  #112  
Old 03-24-2011, 12:30 AM
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My wife and I were into S&M...

She'd sleep and I'd masterbate.
  #113  
Old 03-24-2011, 12:37 AM
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I think women are told in various ways that "women just don't like sex as much as men," so when they are not really feeling it, they assume that is just the normal and natural way of relationships.
I agree. When a girl I was seeing went through a couple weeks of low libido (she suddenly had a lot of stress going on in her life at the time) she was very self-conscious about it and worried that I'd be disappointed at the lack of sex and lose interest. I made sure to reassure her that it happens to everyone, even guys have trouble getting it up when we're stressed, and it's nothing to worry about because I know 100% for sure that it'll come back, no worries.

I didn't ACTUALLY know this, but I said it with a crap-ton of confidence and that helped her kind of latch onto my steadfast belief that it'd come back and, lo and behold, a week or so later when that stress died down she was back to being horny as a bunny.

If I had encouraged the "well women always get bored with sex, that's just how it is, women don't like sex as much as men" myth, then like you say, she might have just gone along with it and not expected it to ever come back.

Sex drive can be very affected by someone's mentality/outlook, especially for women who need to be turned on on a lot of levels to really get going.

- TWTTWN
  #114  
Old 03-24-2011, 01:48 AM
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No one is saying anything wrong in this thread but I can't help but feel that not enough people realize that this has been going on for 9 frigging years. I'm not a run-to-therapy type guy but at this point I think they are so deep in it they probably need a third person perspective.
  #115  
Old 03-24-2011, 07:26 AM
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Then one can assume it will go one of three ways: continue for another XX years, or become an inflection point where the topic is brought up in a healthy non-confrontational way (because there are two sides to every story), or the topic is brought up and things blow up badly.

It takes two people to solve this problem, and how it is brought up will dictate how it goes.

Quite frankly, there was a time in my life where I thought "Everything else is great...I'm married to my best friend, I have two great kids, I'm happy in my house, and career, and hobbies...I'm just not getting enough sex. Would it be worth throwing all this away because I wasn't getting any?"

Now the answer to that is iffy, and we re-adjusted things, but it's important to note that sex is both MORE important and LESS important than we think.

Really, how much time, over your whole life, do you ACTUALLY spend time making the beast with two backs? How much time do you spend obsessing over it?
  #116  
Old 03-24-2011, 03:12 PM
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The problem is that sex is not just something you want. It's a strong urge that doesn't just go away. It gets frustrating having to actively supress or find some way to deal with the urges on a daily basis. It would be like trying to satisfy your hunger by only eating plain oatmeal for the rest of your life. Yes, you can do it, but it would be frustrating to give up something that brings you such joy.

Also for men, sex is a very big part of their identity. I feel like an emasculated, loser, fool because I don't have a sex life. It eats away at me every day. And my wife is better than most in this situation. If I approach her she will accomodate me. But even though she gets into it and enjoys it, I can tell she'd rather be doing something else. It's very depressing to know that I cannot make my wife want to have sex with me no matter what I do. I feel like so much less of a man.

Other than that, our relationship is pretty good. It's just that the sex leaves such a big hole that all other problems are magnified. I feel like I'm giving up my sex life for what?
  #117  
Old 03-24-2011, 03:17 PM
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I'm sorry, filmore. That does sound really difficult. I don't think I'd just be able to shrug that off, either. It would feel like a fundamental rejection, I think.
  #118  
Old 03-24-2011, 08:03 PM
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UB I totally feel what you are saying. Married just about 20 years and sex has never been more than twice a month. But the rest of the life together is pretty good, we've accomplished a lot because we've been together, much more than I could have accomplished on my own. There is no way in hell I'm giving that up so I can have a little bit more nookie.

With us (and I'm guilty of it too) it just feels like everything in the world needs to be done first before that can even be considered. I tend to have my Sunday evening depression because I look back at all the chore type things and all the fun/loving things we did over the past two days and yet we couldn't come up w/ a half hour for that. It sucks and it doesn't help that Sunday nite is the time I generally choose about talking about not getting needs met. I'm sure I'm not pleasant to deal w/ at that moment.

I'm not saying we're in a rut and I'm not saying I get "blue balls" if I don't get any, it's just that sex and playing around is fun, it's just never a priority. It's something I'm very used to by now, but I honestly wish I wasn't so used to it.
  #119  
Old 03-24-2011, 08:34 PM
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Also for men, sex is a very big part of their identity. I feel like an emasculated, loser, fool because I don't have a sex life. It eats away at me every day. And my wife is better than most in this situation. If I approach her she will accomodate me. But even though she gets into it and enjoys it, I can tell she'd rather be doing something else. It's very depressing to know that I cannot make my wife want to have sex with me no matter what I do. I feel like so much less of a man.
To use a variation of an old cliche', its her not you. Not that improves the situation much, but IMO you can lighten up on the self guilt part of the problem.
  #120  
Old 03-25-2011, 10:16 AM
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And are those stresses the real reason for the lack of sex? Even if they are, they are normal day-to-day stresses. How can anyone expect to not have those stresses in their lives.
"Oh Marge, there's just so much pressure - my job, the kids, political strife at home and abroad! But I promise you: the second all those things go away, we'll have sex." ~Homer Simpson
  #121  
Old 03-25-2011, 10:50 AM
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Truly, chances are, it was really not you - it was her failing.
Failing? Failing? That's a pretty goddamn harsh way to characterize not being into someone, like it's a sign of being defective or some kind of character flaw. (And if we were talking about a guy who lost interest in his partner but found renewed interest with somebody new, would you describe it as a failing, or just the way some men are wired?)

I know it was probably just a poor choice of words in the rush to make someone else feel better, but it's something that tends to pop up a lot in threads like this. There's this undercurrent that loss of libido is somehow her fault, like it's something she deliberately chose. And that's bullshit on a lot of levels--it's untrue, it's unfair, and it unnecessarily puts an extra burden of shame and guilt on a topic already amply loaded with those things. It's hard enough to discuss something that you know gives your partner all the shitty feelings filmore describes, something that you know makes people think you're a shitty partner, something that makes you feel like a failure as a woman. Adding on the burden of the idea that you're somehow to blame for all this...well, that makes it damn near impossible.

And that sucks for everybody. For her for obvious reasons, for him because it makes the issue far less likely to be addressed.
  #122  
Old 03-25-2011, 11:07 AM
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I meant her failing libido. Her loss of interest. It probably wasn't something Filmore specifically did or didn't do. Things like this can happen organically, or they can happen because needs aren't being met. He didn't say that she cheated or anything, nor did he say that she'd been complaining specifically about him as a partner. I wasn't attempting to assign blame.

Not sure why you threw the 'if it were a man' card. I'm a woman. If it were a man I'd feel the same way.

Last edited by Curious3d; 03-25-2011 at 11:10 AM. Reason: spelling
  #123  
Old 03-25-2011, 11:09 AM
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Then we say, specifically, that a difference in libido is nobody's fault...how it's dealt with, IS.
  #124  
Old 03-25-2011, 11:38 AM
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I read "her failing" as a comment on how this issue is a problem for her partner, but she is unwilling to examine or attempt to fix the problem. It's not the loss of libido that is a failing, IMO, but her failure is in refusing to address it.
  #125  
Old 03-25-2011, 01:14 PM
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I meant her failing libido. Her loss of interest. It probably wasn't something Filmore specifically did or didn't do. Things like this can happen organically, or they can happen because needs aren't being met. He didn't say that she cheated or anything, nor did he say that she'd been complaining specifically about him as a partner. I wasn't attempting to assign blame.

Not sure why you threw the 'if it were a man' card. I'm a woman. If it were a man I'd feel the same way.
Ah, I see. It wasn't really clear from the way it was written. And as I said, I suspected it was a just an unintentional thing that brought to mind a more general attitude one tends to find in these threads. And the "if it were a man" thing is an honest question brought about by reading other threads about women being frustrated by male low sex drive. When a woman starts a thread about how her husband or boyfriend won't fuck her, there's always a rousing chorus of "have you let yourself go?" and "well, men are genetically programmed to need variety and get bored easily." There's not nearly so much of this "Well, he needs to get off his sorry ass and fix himself" that you see in threads like this one. There is, of course, some of it but not nearly so much, and you never know whether someone holds a double standard like that till you ask.

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Originally Posted by Dogzilla View Post
I read "her failing" as a comment on how this issue is a problem for her partner, but she is unwilling to examine or attempt to fix the problem. It's not the loss of libido that is a failing, IMO, but her failure is in refusing to address it.
That might have been how I read it, too, except that the specific sort of libido loss she mentioned was something that I honestly don't see a way to address. If the problem is that all the new-boyfriend smell has worn off, what on earth do you do about that that doesn't involve getting a new boyfriend? Hell, how do you even figure out that that's the problem until after the fact?

There are a lot of causes for libido loss that I wonder that about, either because the cause is something that fixes another, more serious problem or requires effort the complaining partner isn't willing to put in. How do you address stuff like anti-depressant side effects or feeling neglected when your partner isn't willing to turn off his gadgets and focus on you one night a week?
  #126  
Old 03-25-2011, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CrazyCatLady View Post
When a woman starts a thread about how her husband or boyfriend won't fuck her, there's always a rousing chorus of "have you let yourself go?" and "well, men are genetically programmed to need variety and get bored easily." There's not nearly so much of this "Well, he needs to get off his sorry ass and fix himself" that you see in threads like this one. There is, of course, some of it but not nearly so much, and you never know whether someone holds a double standard like that till you ask.
What I remember from such threads are comments like "It's not possible for stress to affect his libido. He's having an affair."

Men are expected to be ON at all times. Women are expected to be OFF most of the time. If they stray from these expected things, there is something a bit weird going on, suspicious. We* want people to stay neatly in their places, abiding by all of the gender rules and roles we assign. And then when people report that these things have happened, we tsk tsk and say we knew it all along that Jill would lose interest in sex and/or Jack wouldn't be able to keep it in his pants.


*We as a society. Plenty of individuals don't believe these things, though it underlies a lot of our basic assumptions about how relationships work.
  #127  
Old 03-25-2011, 01:41 PM
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The UB Patented sure-fire way to wedded sexual bliss:
Code:
Low Libido Person..................................High Libido Person
...........................ZONE OF HAPPY.............................
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXYYYYYYYYYYYYYY----------PPPPPPPPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
S and X are times of real, good, Sex together
Y are times of 'Sex for the other person'...a Pity Fuck, not to put too fine a point on it.
P is Porn. This helps the person with a higher libido, make it through the night. The individual with a lower libido is not permitted to complain about it, and any guilt they have is theirs alone.
- is that period of time where everyone is happy because everyone is getting enough

What often happens is the following:
Code:
Low Libido Person..................................High Libido Person
...........................ZONE OF HAPPY.............................
NNNNNNNNNNXYY--------------OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Where the one with the low libido says NO a lot (the 'N') and occasionally gives it up out of pity....but then the person with a high libido looks OUTSIDE ('O') the marriage to get enough.


Note there is no male or female in this list...and the charts were created on Firefox, on the Mac. Apologies if it looks like crap.
  #128  
Old 03-25-2011, 01:49 PM
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With small kids (mine are, thank god, older now) I'd just be TOUCHED OUT by the end of the day. Kids were hanging on me, demanding my attention. I had no privacy. I wanted no more external demands on my body.

After hours of someone want my attention all day long with the sort of intimacy that happens between mom and baby/toddler - even preschoolers, I just wanted to be BY MYSELF.

Once we figured that out, and took steps to deal with it (like having the kids do an overnight with Grandma, or having my husband give me the day off by taking them out for hours in the middle of the afternoon while I sat in a bathtub), it got better.
This is my problem, but mentally. After working all day (only person in my department, which includes IT helpdesk stuff), coming home and taking care of the baby full-time (to give my wife a break from her) 5-9, I do NOT want any more demands on my attention, mental or physical--all I want to do is sit and play World of Warcraft (and sometimes THAT is too much for me, so I just read).

Meanwhile my wife never gets adult company all day, and by the time I get the baby to bed, she's over the too much intimacy thing since she'd had a few hours off.

So my wife right now is experiencing a lot of libido and frustration, and I'm frustrated that I never get enough alone time that sex is something I want.
  #129  
Old 03-25-2011, 03:37 PM
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With us (and I'm guilty of it too) it just feels like everything in the world needs to be done first before that can even be considered. I tend to have my Sunday evening depression because I look back at all the chore type things and all the fun/loving things we did over the past two days and yet we couldn't come up w/ a half hour for that. It sucks and it doesn't help that Sunday nite is the time I generally choose about talking about not getting needs met. I'm sure I'm not pleasant to deal w/ at that moment.

I'm not saying we're in a rut and I'm not saying I get "blue balls" if I don't get any, it's just that sex and playing around is fun, it's just never a priority. It's something I'm very used to by now, but I honestly wish I wasn't so used to it.
I know the Sunday evening depression well. But have you thought of scheduling a date earlier in the weekend? I know it might sound crass, but there are lots of advantages. You can schedule your other activities around it. Both people can be thinking about it before. If you have favorite times of the day, you can schedule it for then. And you lose all that "is this a good time" tension.
  #130  
Old 03-25-2011, 03:49 PM
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That might have been how I read it, too, except that the specific sort of libido loss she mentioned was something that I honestly don't see a way to address. If the problem is that all the new-boyfriend smell has worn off, what on earth do you do about that that doesn't involve getting a new boyfriend? Hell, how do you even figure out that that's the problem until after the fact?
If you are interested in a long term relationship, the new boyfriend/new girlfriend smell always wears off. Call it a fault, call it lack of maturity or lack of commitment, but there are plenty of things to replace it with. Guys are at least as guilty as women of this.
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There are a lot of causes for libido loss that I wonder that about, either because the cause is something that fixes another, more serious problem or requires effort the complaining partner isn't willing to put in. How do you address stuff like anti-depressant side effects or feeling neglected when your partner isn't willing to turn off his gadgets and focus on you one night a week?
The problem is not really lack of sex, but the blow to the ego of the partner not being interested. Known medical side effects don't involve a blow to the ego. My wife being in bed for two months with a bad back didn't involve a blow to the ego. On the other hand, lack of interest or the partner caring about something else more does. I think "not now, I'm too tired" - every day at 8 pm and "not now, I'm playing" - every day also - are fairly equivalent excuses.
  #131  
Old 03-26-2011, 12:52 AM
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re: OP: did you try my suggestion about asking for sex at different times of day yet?
  #132  
Old 03-27-2011, 03:16 AM
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I've always been a really passionate sexual woman. I had a feeling that I was heading in that direction when at 14 I was sometimes masturbating more than once per day. I am almost 50 now. I don't want things to slow down and want to keep sexually active as long as possible. I don't get people who lose their drive, or that never had one to begin with. But, we are all different, I do understand that. I had a wonderful lover last year, but do to unforeseen circumstances our lover affair is over for good. I'll find someone else though, because I don't want to live without physical touch for too much longer. It's depressing as hell. I'm not just talking about sex alone...but about kissing and embracing and being close and intimate with someone who you care for deeply. I left my husband last year because of the lack of that in our marriage, and many other reasons too. His libido was also gone. He hugged me with the double pat on the back...made me cringe every time. Folks who stay together (long after kids are gone especially) when they are nothing more than roommates are hard for me to understand. Financial security or not...they are living a damn lie...life is too short not to give and receive love. I can't live my life like that, and I won't. I wish you luck Osiris the 1st. I really do. I hope something wakes up the passion in your wife and that your marriage makes it.
  #133  
Old 03-27-2011, 11:34 AM
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Men are expected to be ON at all times. Women are expected to be OFF most of the time.
I'm not sure I agree with that, at least not the second part. It used to be the standard expectation, yes, but these days people who espouse such assumptions tend to be dismissed as neanderthalic, woefully misinformed, and just plain dumb. Now women are expected to like and want sex, to be ON most of the time. If we're not, there's something physical or emotional wrong with us that needs to be addressed. Thus the rise of threads like this; if female low libido was the default expectation, the situation in the OP would just be what you normally expect in a marriage, rather than a problem.


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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
If you are interested in a long term relationship, the new boyfriend/new girlfriend smell always wears off. Call it a fault, call it lack of maturity or lack of commitment, but there are plenty of things to replace it with.
Yes, I know. I've been in a relationship for 16 years, and one or the other of us has had sex drive issues at various points most of that time. Believe me, I'm well aware of the other things that replace the new boyfriend smell. That's not what the post I was referring to was talking about. That post was blaming the lack of libido solely on lack of partner novelty...and if that's the sole issue, it's a damn hard one to address in any sort of way the guy is going to find satisfactory. That's what I was saying.

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The problem is not really lack of sex, but the blow to the ego of the partner not being interested. Known medical side effects don't involve a blow to the ego. My wife being in bed for two months with a bad back didn't involve a blow to the ego. On the other hand, lack of interest or the partner caring about something else more does. I think "not now, I'm too tired" - every day at 8 pm and "not now, I'm playing" - every day also - are fairly equivalent excuses.
True enough, but that's not what I was asking. Medications like anti-depressants and hormonal birth control are infamous libido-killers. When that's the problem, what's the solution? Stopping/changing the meds in the hope of finding one that works okay but doesn't have the same side effects, and in the meantime deal with the effects of not having your depression under control? When the issue with her low libido is lack of attention/affection and she asks for a date night once a week and he can't be arsed...where do you go from there?
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Old 03-27-2011, 12:00 PM
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When that's the problem, what's the solution? Stopping/changing the meds in the hope of finding one that works okay but doesn't have the same side effects, and in the meantime deal with the effects of not having your depression under control? When the issue with her low libido is lack of attention/affection and she asks for a date night once a week and he can't be arsed...where do you go from there?
Like all things, open communication helps, but it would ALSO help if folk realize that the odds of being completely sexually compatible over the course of a lifetime together is unlikely and to build skills to handle the times when you're both on different pages.
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Old 03-27-2011, 12:28 PM
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I'm not sure I agree with that, at least not the second part. It used to be the standard expectation, yes, but these days people who espouse such assumptions tend to be dismissed as neanderthalic, woefully misinformed, and just plain dumb. Now women are expected to like and want sex, to be ON most of the time. If we're not, there's something physical or emotional wrong with us that needs to be addressed. Thus the rise of threads like this; if female low libido was the default expectation, the situation in the OP would just be what you normally expect in a marriage, rather than a problem.
But I think the replies to it show that it is something people consider "normal" not unusual.
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Old 03-27-2011, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rushgeekgirl
Same here. I'm just bored with the whole thing. I'm not unhealthy, although I am a bit lazy. It's a lot of trouble for little reward. I only do it to make my SO happy, and I try really hard to make sure we get it in at least once a week or he starts grumbling
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Originally Posted by lacortadora
I've always been a really passionate sexual woman. I had a feeling that I was heading in that direction when at 14 I was sometimes masturbating more than once per day. I am almost 50 now. I don't want things to slow down and want to keep sexually active as long as possible.
Such a contrast. I read these threads to try and understand female sexuality, there seems to be such a huge swing in desire and attitude among women. I as a male could never enjoy sex with a woman who was just doing it to make me happy, I can't think of anything more depressing.

Last edited by Icerigger; 03-27-2011 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 03-27-2011, 02:41 PM
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Such a contrast. I read these threads to try and understand female sexuality, there seems to be such a huge swing in desire and attitude among women.
It's almost as if we're all individuals.
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Old 03-27-2011, 03:43 PM
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And that it sucks to have more libido than can be accommodated by your SO's.
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Old 03-27-2011, 04:41 PM
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Typed with a lump in my throat.


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And that it sucks to have more libido than can be accommodated by your SO's.
Oh, my sentiments exactly. Some people can put up with it for the duration though. I could not. I also think that giving your heart to someone in profound ways is not always a good thing. A lesson learned just recently. My shell will be much tougher from now on and my heart not nearly as warm. It goes against everything that I'm about...but as my father always told me in his cold way...."such is life." I guess he was right. I should start a thread, but it would be too depressing and so I'll spare you all and wait.....
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Old 03-27-2011, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CrazyCatLady View Post
I'm not sure I agree with that, at least not the second part. It used to be the standard expectation, yes, but these days people who espouse such assumptions tend to be dismissed as neanderthalic, woefully misinformed, and just plain dumb. Now women are expected to like and want sex, to be ON most of the time. If we're not, there's something physical or emotional wrong with us that needs to be addressed. Thus the rise of threads like this; if female low libido was the default expectation, the situation in the OP would just be what you normally expect in a marriage, rather than a problem.
Yes. There is very little attention paid or respect shown in person on the street views and the media for life issues etc that can interfere with a couple's sex life. Somehow we are supposed to put aside truly crippling issues like loss of job or grief or other things (like having a child), and enjoy hot hot sex always. We have at least managed to get rid of (so far as I know) that bogus expectation of orgasming at the same time. That was bandied about when I was a teen, to no one's benefit, IMO.


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Originally Posted by jsgoddess View Post
But I think the replies to it show that it is something people consider "normal" not unusual.

I think what it shows is that "mismatched" libidos are much more common than not. My issue with this is that it seems to be the more demanding partner (or in less loaded terms, the partner with the stronger libido) is the default standard. I think this is wrong.

I don't have any answers, really. But when a situation such as the OP's is so common as to be considered "normal" (and I disagree that it is considered so--we've seen in this thread the view that it is not, that it is wrong, that it needs to be "fixed"), I have to wonder if the standard is what is at fault. Let me use another example to make my point. Women have for years been told (and described) by doctors that their heart attack symptoms present atypically. That is, females tend to NOT have pain down the left arm, crushing chest pain etc. That's all well and good and it's true. But here's the thing: if half the population doesn't present symptoms in the standard way, that's too large a group to be considered a subset of the other group. What is the case is that while both genders suffer from heart attacks, the symptoms are not the same for both groups. One is not "atypical" of the other.

IMO, it's the same for sex. It's not that women lack a libido or are less highly sexed than men. IMO, we are differently "sexed", in that we experience desire, and sexual needs differently. I'm hugely generalizing of course, but I am so tired of this extremely common "condition" being viewed as abnormal or wrong or bad for the individual. Those are all value judgments and their expression does not tend to make a female partner more willing to engage in sex.

Last edited by eleanorigby; 03-27-2011 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 03-27-2011, 05:53 PM
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Let me use another example to make my point. Women have for years been told (and described) by doctors that their heart attack symptoms present atypically. That is, females tend to NOT have pain down the left arm, crushing chest pain etc. That's all well and good and it's true. But here's the thing: if half the population doesn't present symptoms in the standard way, that's too large a group to be considered a subset of the other group. What is the case is that while both genders suffer from heart attacks, the symptoms are not the same for both groups. One is not "atypical" of the other.
That reminds me of a story I heard on the radio. They were discussing some vascular issue, I don't remember the name of it, but at the end they said that X was true except for women and people of African descent.

The male is so often seen as the default, and so often it's the white male at that, that it's easy to say there's something wrong with her rather than there's something wrong with him. But that's why I was talking about the way some women's sex drives work. IF a woman wants to have more drive for sex, she may have to go about things differently rather than expecting to have a stereotypical male response. Lots and LOTS of women aren't instantly horny. They have to make an effort. If we pooh-pooh "making an effort," we're pooh-poohing many women's sexual reality. Just as women can't usually orgasm as quickly as men, many women need to approach the sexual life they want to lead from a different perspective rather than "I am just like a man only with a uterus."

I've got nothing to say about women who really just don't want to have sex. I'm talking about women who like it once they get going but have trouble getting going in the first place.
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Old 03-27-2011, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Icerigger View Post
Such a contrast. I read these threads to try and understand female sexuality, there seems to be such a huge swing in desire and attitude among women. I as a male could never enjoy sex with a woman who was just doing it to make me happy, I can't think of anything more depressing.
Yep, quite the contrast between her and I indeed Icerigger. But, like someone pointed out, "we are all individuals."
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Old 03-27-2011, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jsgoddess View Post

The male is so often seen as the default, and so often it's the white male at that, that it's easy to say there's something wrong with her rather than there's something wrong with him. But that's why I was talking about the way some women's sex drives work. IF a woman wants to have more drive for sex, she may have to go about things differently rather than expecting to have a stereotypical male response. Lots and LOTS of women aren't instantly horny. They have to make an effort. If we pooh-pooh "making an effort," we're pooh-poohing many women's sexual reality. Just as women can't usually orgasm as quickly as men, many women need to approach the sexual life they want to lead from a different perspective rather than "I am just like a man only with a uterus."
I think we are probably saying close to the same thing, but we are looking at slightly different aspects of this very knotty issue. I don't like to see low libido pathologized, like normal grief after a loss or episodic sadness is now depression and requires meds. IANAD or a psychiatrist and this is all just my opinion. I am not just speaking of women (or men) who have no interest in sex. Someone having a lower libido than someone else is NOT abnormal; it's normal. I know you haven't said that it was abnormal. I hope you don't think I was poo-pooing making an effort (on the part of the woman). My point (one of them) is that the decision to pursue arousal/ desire must be the woman's (or the lower libido'ed partner's) choice. And I agree with you that a different tack may be needed, probably as many different tacks as there are women.



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I've got nothing to say about women who really just don't want to have sex. I'm talking about women who like it once they get going but have trouble getting going in the first place.
Well, I think we can safely say that whatever seems to be commonly done isn't working. Maybe it's a case where the woman truly does not know what she wants. Maybe this aversion to getting started masks another issue in the relationship. Maybe her more demanding partner should just cut her some slack for a bit. There are as many solutions as there are shades to the issue. But for me, being told that I should give in and just have sex, sans desire, to please my partner will not work (did not work). That way breeds resentment and distance in my experience. Someone else may have a very different experience.

Last edited by eleanorigby; 03-27-2011 at 10:07 PM.
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