Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old Today, 04:21 PM
Nava is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hey! I'm located! WOOOOW!
Posts: 41,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manda JO View Post
Where is your line? If a white teacher said in an interview "I think black kids are stupid, and the ones that appear to do well are usually cheating, but I treat them all equally and I won't ever tell them that.", would not hiring that teacher be a violation of free speech?

This is an honest question. I don't know how you feel about that.
Treat them equally? Highly doubtful. That person would need to have unusually high body-language control to really treat those students equally.
__________________
Evidence gathered through the use of science is easily dismissed through the use of idiocy. - Czarcasm.
  #52  
Old Today, 05:25 PM
Manda JO is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 11,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nava View Post
Treat them equally? Highly doubtful. That person would need to have unusually high body-language control to really treat those students equally.
I agree. Absolutely. And it's not just body language--there are a thousand places where a teacher, probation officer, policeman, judge has to apply discretion, and it would be extraordinarily difficult to tease out to what degree that discretion was tainted by bias.
It would take years, for one thing, during which substantial harm would be done. But some people seem to feel there should be an iron-clad separation between a person's work and private life--a stance i understand, even if I don't share--and I am curious what they think. Until we all are on the same page about that, then quibbling about what it means to belong to an organization that espouses certain beliefs is a red herring.
  #53  
Old Today, 07:09 PM
UltraVires is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bridgeport, WV, US
Posts: 15,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manda JO View Post
Where is your line? If a white teacher said in an interview "I think black kids are stupid, and the ones that appear to do well are usually cheating, but I treat them all equally and I won't ever tell them that.", would not hiring that teacher be a violation of free speech?

This is an honest question. I don't know how you feel about that.
I don't know the line. Wherever it is, it is not the SCV who are admittedly (in this thread) not a racist organization but some members marched with racist organizations in Charlottesville, and there is no showing even then that those members shared the racist beliefs of those other groups. That is a step way too far. Might as well just call the group "Republicans" and not allow them to hold public office as a matter of law.

People are complaining about my use of the slippery slope but it is accurate. Once you start down it, there is no principled way to stop. If you say that a person's off the job political beliefs are good enough to prevent their hire, then all we are talking about is line drawing and you might as well say the line is drawn at "Republicans" or "Democrats."

As far as the hypo, she is clearly making a comment about how she will view her job (i.e. if a black kid performs well on a test, he or she is "usually" cheating). That's a far cry from a membership in the SCV. I don't see how you can make a link between that membership and treating a black probationer unfairly. There is an inference piled upon an inference there. The line should have to be more direct and provable.
  #54  
Old Today, 07:22 PM
Manda JO is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 11,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
I don't know the line. Wherever it is, it is not the SCV who are admittedly (in this thread) not a racist organization but some members marched with racist organizations in Charlottesville, and there is no showing even then that those members shared the racist beliefs of those other groups. That is a step way too far. Might as well just call the group "Republicans" and not allow them to hold public office as a matter of law.

People are complaining about my use of the slippery slope but it is accurate. Once you start down it, there is no principled way to stop. If you say that a person's off the job political beliefs are good enough to prevent their hire, then all we are talking about is line drawing and you might as well say the line is drawn at "Republicans" or "Democrats."

As far as the hypo, she is clearly making a comment about how she will view her job (i.e. if a black kid performs well on a test, he or she is "usually" cheating). That's a far cry from a membership in the SCV. I don't see how you can make a link between that membership and treating a black probationer unfairly. There is an inference piled upon an inference there. The line should have to be more direct and provable.
But at some point, is it okay to decide someone's personal, political views are problematic? Would it be okay to fire that teacher if private comments she made to that effect were reported to administration, and when asked about it, she confirmed that she did feel that way--but pointed out that there had been no complaints from students, parents, or teachers that suggested she was actively biased?

I think before we can talk about where the line is, we need to decide if one even exists.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017