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Old 07-12-2018, 08:24 AM
bump bump is offline
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Sometimes you can't win, no matter what. [Environment vs disabled access in straws.]

Recently I've been kind of annoyed at the propensity for everyone out there to bitch and moan about everything under the sun. If there's something someone doesn't like, they're griping about it on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, the letters to the editor, etc...

And sometimes you (the generic "you") can't win, unless you jump through hoops.

So a bunch of companies have recently decided to discontinue using plastic straws due to the environmental impact of the straws. A good move, right?

Well apparently disabled people are up in arms about this because only plastic straws are the right mix of characteristics for them to use effectively. Which I get, but where I draw the line is when the disability advocacy groups are crying foul because this is somehow a crisis of access for the disabled, who apparently can't be expected to bring their own straws.

That's absurd. While I'm all for reasonable access accommodations - hell, I'd like to see shorter bathroom facilities for children made more common, I don't think it's restaurants', coffee shops' and bars' problems to make special accommodations in terms of straws for that tiny percentage of disabled customers who come in and can't use anything but a plastic straw and refuse to bring their own. My gut feeling is that if you need a special version of something the restaurant already provides in some fashion, like a paper straw, then that's your own problem and responsibility, disabled or not.

Am I off base here? It seems to me that companies are damned if they do and damned if they don't on this thing, and so are governments who may try and ban the things, unless they come up with some sort of tailored and convoluted set of exceptions for this situation.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/11/healt...rnd/index.html

Last edited by bump; 07-12-2018 at 08:24 AM. Reason: added URL to article.
  #2  
Old 07-12-2018, 08:33 AM
Joey P Joey P is offline
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FWIW, I believe many of the places discontinuing straws will still have them available upon request, it's just the default is no longer to give you one automatically.
You can also get reusable (metal, collapsible) straws.

But, yes, whiny people are given a very large audience on the internet. Especially when people that love recreational outrage join in.
  #3  
Old 07-12-2018, 08:44 AM
wonky wonky is offline
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I think bringing it to people's attention that there is a segment of the population that might legitimately need access to an item that may be on the road to being banned is important. If there is a movement afoot to actually ban the items, then saying that people can just bring their own doesn't quite work. And, of course, that would make asking for it not a solution either.

I don't know much about the issue, so I won't say if their needs or fears are overblown. I do know that the needs of people with disabilities are often ignored, and rather than try to figure out ways to accommodate, many people often just say it's the person's own problem. I don't want to live in a world where we just shrug away information and say it's not our problem if someone else has needs.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:02 AM
Joey P Joey P is offline
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Originally Posted by wonky View Post
I think bringing it to people's attention that there is a segment of the population that might legitimately need access to an item that may be on the road to being banned is important. If there is a movement afoot to actually ban the items, then saying that people can just bring their own doesn't quite work. And, of course, that would make asking for it not a solution either.
No one is banning them, they're not (at least that I've seen) going to be illegal. Some restaurants, and surely more will follow, aren't going to hand them out with your drink. You'll still be able to ask for them (Starbucks is switching to a paper straw in those cases) or, as stated, you can bring your own.
If you cannot drink from a cup without a straw it doesn't seem like a terrible idea to have a couple on hand when you leave the house.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, you can buy reusable straws. If straws were to be made illegal, you'd still be able to have reusable ones.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:41 AM
Some Call Me... Tim Some Call Me... Tim is offline
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No one is banning them, they're not (at least that I've seen) going to be illegal.
Nope, Seattle has banned them for some businesses. Not that everyone is following the law, yet.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:52 AM
Joey P Joey P is offline
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Nope, Seattle has banned them for some businesses. Not that everyone is following the law, yet.
That's only for plastic straws and only for food service places that hand them out. Paper straws are still fine. And, again, you can still bring in your own plastic (or reusable) ones.

Last edited by Joey P; 07-12-2018 at 09:52 AM.
  #7  
Old 07-12-2018, 09:55 AM
wonky wonky is offline
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You'll still be able to ask for them (Starbucks is switching to a paper straw in those cases) or, as stated, you can bring your own.
If you cannot drink from a cup without a straw it doesn't seem like a terrible idea to have a couple on hand when you leave the house.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, you can buy reusable straws. If straws were to be made illegal, you'd still be able to have reusable ones.
The article explicitly said that paper straws are a problem. And bans are an option on the table. If there is an eventual global ban, people won't be able to bring their own. Let's have that conversation now.

While it may end up that people with certain disabilities will not be accommodated, I think it's worthwhile having the conversation about what such social movement or banning would mean for them. We already do a lot that basically says that people who need accommodations are SOL, but that should never be the default position.

Last edited by wonky; 07-12-2018 at 09:55 AM.
  #8  
Old 07-12-2018, 10:01 AM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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The article explicitly said that paper straws are a problem.
The article only says that paper straws dissolve or can be bitten through. How is that a problem? Just get a new one.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:18 AM
wonky wonky is offline
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The article only says that paper straws dissolve or can be bitten through. How is that a problem? Just get a new one.
I trust people who have disabilities to know whether a product is problematic. I do not have a disability, so I will not attempt to tell them what is or isn't problematic for them.
  #10  
Old 07-12-2018, 10:19 AM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by wonky View Post
I trust people who have disabilities to know whether a product is problematic. I do not have a disability, so I will not attempt to tell them what is or isn't problematic for them.
I'm not telling them either. I'm only stating what was said in the article. The dissolvability of a paper straw does not seem to be a problem limited to those with disabilities.

Last edited by manson1972; 07-12-2018 at 10:20 AM.
  #11  
Old 07-12-2018, 10:25 AM
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I agree completely. People are dramatic over everything. If you're satisfying one person, you're making another angry. It's like nobody has time for anything real anymore, except to complain and make it known to the world.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:30 AM
Joey P Joey P is offline
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Originally Posted by wonky View Post
The article explicitly said that paper straws are a problem. And bans are an option on the table. If there is an eventual global ban, people won't be able to bring their own. Let's have that conversation now.

While it may end up that people with certain disabilities will not be accommodated, I think it's worthwhile having the conversation about what such social movement or banning would mean for them. We already do a lot that basically says that people who need accommodations are SOL, but that should never be the default position.
So should we continue to use (according to that article) 500 million plastic straws each day because (according to that article) certain groups of disable people that rely on them, may leave theirs at home.

There's a middle ground between no one gets any straws, period, and as a country we use 500 million per day. Personally, I think it's going to end up somewhere in the neighborhood of straws aren't handed out automatically, but you can have one if you ask. That'll cut down straw usage drastically, I think.

OTOH, if straws are made illegal (for argument's sake), a lot of people are going to switch over to bottled water and bottled soda since those are easier, less messy and less open (think, insects) than a glass or cup.

Regarding paper straws being bitten through or dissolving. ISTM, if there's a move in the direction of paper straws, it won't take long before that's figured out. As of right now paper straws are mainly for looks. Keep in mind, coffee is served in paper cups without dissolving just fine and I don't see any reason why they can't be made thicker so you don't bite through them.


One last thing, I have no idea why straws are what they're going after right now. Why not water bottles or plastic bags 6 pack rings. Until very recently, I had no idea plastic straws presented any kind of an issue.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:44 AM
wonky wonky is offline
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So should we continue to use (according to that article) 500 million plastic straws each day because (according to that article) certain groups of disable people that rely on them, may leave theirs at home.
I did not suggest that. I said in moving forward, we should pay attention to the concerns raised by people with disabilities and see if there is a way to accommodate their needs without simply shrugging and saying it's their problem.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:15 AM
Channing Idaho Banks Channing Idaho Banks is offline
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A history of the drinking straw will be useful for this discussion:
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/straws-history
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:34 AM
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On many issues it is simply not reasonable to expect the 99% to cater to the 1%.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:38 AM
bump bump is offline
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I did not suggest that. I said in moving forward, we should pay attention to the concerns raised by people with disabilities and see if there is a way to accommodate their needs without simply shrugging and saying it's their problem.
But the thing is we have 500 million straws per day on one hand, and on the other, we have a relatively tiny number of disabled people who in the final analysis are griping about having to bring their own reusable straws or plastic straws from home, because the restaurants won't bend over backward to accommodate them exactly.

That was my point- there's no winning for the restaraunts- they either contribute to the plastic straw issue, or they rile up the disabled for not making things easy for them.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:46 AM
wonky wonky is offline
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That was my point- there's no winning for the restaraunts- they either contribute to the plastic straw issue, or they rile up the disabled for not making things easy for them.
I think we should be trying very hard to make things easier for people with disabilities whenever we can. I don't see anything in the article in the OP that makes me think that there is no chance of a solution that meets the needs of people with disabilities. Nor do I feel that people with disabilities asking for an accommodation turns an issue into an automatic losing proposition for restaurants, nor that there would actually be a problem with accommodating them.

It's not obvious nothing that can be done. It might be true, but one article does not establish that. I trust people with disabilities to know what's problematic and I expect everyone to try to take those issues into account when making policy.

Last edited by wonky; 07-12-2018 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:15 PM
Eonwe Eonwe is offline
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I generally want to be 100% with wonky on this issue, and I've been reading a lot about it.

I agree that the needs of the disabled are often ignored/forgotten. But I also am generally distrusting and skeptical of the argument that there is no solution to a problem but the status quo. It's ironic to me that so many of my left-leaning (as am I) compatriots have adopted this conservative perspective on the issue.

Somehow straw development, use, and distribution has managed to serve the needs of the disabled (that monolithic group) perfectly and completely by accident, and any changes are completely unacceptable and obviously going to lead to the end times.

Bottom line: I trust people to know what is problematic for themselves, but I also trust that people hate uninvited change. I don't trust people to always be able to differentiate between changes that are unreasonable and changes that they are emotionally resistant to.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:43 PM
enipla enipla is offline
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Originally Posted by From the OP's link
The National Park Service estimates that Americans use 500 million "drinking straws"
Say what now? That's 1.5 straws a day per person. I know a lot of people eat at fast food a lot. But an average of 1.5 times a day?
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:44 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Say what now? That's 1.5 straws a day per person. I know a lot of people eat at fast food a lot. But an average of 1.5 times a day?
You forgot to add in cocaine users.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:59 PM
Joey P Joey P is offline
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I agree that the needs of the disabled are often ignored/forgotten.
To be fair, I think it's not entirely 'ignored/forgotten' as often as it's "I had no idea/how would I have known that". The straw issue is a perfect example. Up until about a week, I never, ever would have guessed that getting rid of straws would be any more of an issue for disabled people than anyone else.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:59 PM
wonky wonky is offline
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Somehow straw development, use, and distribution has managed to serve the needs of the disabled (that monolithic group) perfectly and completely by accident, and any changes are completely unacceptable and obviously going to lead to the end times.

Bottom line: I trust people to know what is problematic for themselves, but I also trust that people hate uninvited change. I don't trust people to always be able to differentiate between changes that are unreasonable and changes that they are emotionally resistant to.
Very good points.
  #23  
Old 07-12-2018, 02:14 PM
Joey P Joey P is offline
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Coincidentally, I can hear some co-workers talking about this exact issue. One of them was saying that she was trying to find a starbucks with the new lids (because of the novelty). That started a discussion about the straws. She mentioned that she's tried replaceable plastic straws but because she bites her straws they crack after a few uses and the metal ones hurt. I don't know if she was talking about the temperature or just it clanking around on her teeth (the teeth thing is what I think about when I see those metal straws).
  #24  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:07 PM
Tastes of Chocolate Tastes of Chocolate is offline
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Say what now? That's 1.5 straws a day per person. I know a lot of people eat at fast food a lot. But an average of 1.5 times a day?
It's not just fast food. We went out to dinner last weekend. First we were brought a glass of water (glass, not disposable) with a straw. Then I ordered an Arne Palmer. It also came in a glass, with a straw. It was a hot day, and each time they brought me a refill, they brought me a new straw. I bet I had 4 straws, for dinner that day, at a sit down restaurant.

Yes, a straw is useful if I am taking a beverage with me, but I don't need one for a beverage while eating in. And I sure don't need a new one with each refill.

Also, I don't have much sympathy for the "Oh no, I might forget my straw at home" argument. There are lots of things people might forget at home. We can't possibly expect others (restaurants/stores/employers/friends) to provide everything we might leave behind. Sometimes we just have to take that responsibility.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:34 PM
backsidejohnny backsidejohnny is offline
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Coincidentally, I can hear some co-workers talking about this exact issue. One of them was saying that she was trying to find a starbucks with the new lids (because of the novelty). That started a discussion about the straws. She mentioned that she's tried replaceable plastic straws but because she bites her straws they crack after a few uses and the metal ones hurt. I don't know if she was talking about the temperature or just it clanking around on her teeth (the teeth thing is what I think about when I see those metal straws).
I bet with a little "practice" a metal straw will be as easy to use as metal forks and spoons.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:53 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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Hey, you keep piling on these little indignities and it eventually breaks the camel's back!
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:54 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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Yes, a straw is useful if I am taking a beverage with me, but I don't need one for a beverage while eating in.
I need one - the straw is my major fidget instrument while sitting at a restaurant. If I don't have one to stir my water with I don't know what to do with myself. (I know because this has happened.)

I don't need a different straw with each new cup, mind you. Though I can see why a restaurant that handles refills with fresh glasses would do this - you don't have to worry about whether a given customer already has a straw, and you don't have to worry about 'polluting' one type of drink with drops left on a straw that had been in a different kind of drink.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:38 PM
bump bump is offline
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I think we should be trying very hard to make things easier for people with disabilities whenever we can. I don't see anything in the article in the OP that makes me think that there is no chance of a solution that meets the needs of people with disabilities. Nor do I feel that people with disabilities asking for an accommodation turns an issue into an automatic losing proposition for restaurants, nor that there would actually be a problem with accommodating them.

It's not obvious nothing that can be done. It might be true, but one article does not establish that. I trust people with disabilities to know what's problematic and I expect everyone to try to take those issues into account when making policy.
My problem is more with the expectation on the part of these disabled people that a specific kind of straw will be available for them, because it's more convenient for them instead of having to bring their own because they don't like the provided option.

They don't even HAVE to provide straws at all; and getting butthurt because they're not providing your favorite ones is ridiculous, disabled or not.
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:29 PM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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Do right by the environment, the disabled cry foul ... do right by the disabled, the labor unions cry foul ... do right by the labor unions, the environmentalists cry foul ... this is what we get when everybody gets a trophy ...
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:32 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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Do right by the environment, the disabled cry foul ... do right by the disabled, the labor unions cry foul ... do right by the labor unions, the environmentalists cry foul ... this is what we get when everybody gets a trophy ...
...and thus we should burn the environment, kill the disabled, and execute the labor agitators!
  #31  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:01 PM
Joey P Joey P is offline
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I bet with a little "practice" a metal straw will be as easy to use as metal forks and spoons.
It's hard to practice not getting burned by a metal straw when you drink coffee through it, which I never thought about until I read that article.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:37 PM
backsidejohnny backsidejohnny is offline
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Originally Posted by Joey P
Coincidentally, I can hear some co-workers talking about this exact issue. One of them was saying that she was trying to find a starbucks with the new lids (because of the novelty). That started a discussion about the straws. She mentioned that she's tried replaceable plastic straws but because she bites her straws they crack after a few uses and the metal ones hurt. I don't know if she was talking about the temperature or just it clanking around on her teeth (the teeth thing is what I think about when I see those metal straws).


OK. I was just responding to concerns as you stated.

If you are disabled, I apologize. If you're not, maybe you should practice drinking without a straw.

Last edited by backsidejohnny; 07-12-2018 at 06:40 PM.
  #33  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:17 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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A history of the drinking straw will be useful for this discussion:
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/straws-history
Thanks for the article. When I was growing up we always used paper straws (pre-1960.) Plastic is better, but not enough to clog up the environment.
I wonder if this group of the disabled is being funded by the plastic straw makers. When we in California banned plastic bags, there was a lot of doom and gloom and claims that poor people could no longer afford to go shopping and buy bags. Of course most people bring them.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:19 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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Hey, you keep piling on these little indignities and it eventually breaks the camel's back!
I see what you did there.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:22 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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I did not suggest that. I said in moving forward, we should pay attention to the concerns raised by people with disabilities and see if there is a way to accommodate their needs without simply shrugging and saying it's their problem.
A very simple solution is to make plastic straws which won't fall apart with multiple uses. I suspect ones do today because they are made as cheaply as possible. Ones made for reuse can be made slightly more expensive.
Those can be brought to the restaurant, or even given out on an as needed basis.
Problem solved, environment saved.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:27 PM
Joey P Joey P is offline
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OK. I was just responding to concerns as you stated.

If you are disabled, I apologize. If you're not, maybe you should practice drinking without a straw.
But you only responded to half of the sentence that you bolded. There are two concerns in that sentence and I stated that I didn't know which one she was speaking about. Also, I only brought it up because those were two of the reasons that people don't like using metal straws mentioned in the article.


Here's the entire thing...
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Originally Posted by backsidejohnny View Post
Originally Posted by Joey P
I don't know if she was talking about the temperature or just it clanking around on her teeth (the teeth thing is what I think about when I see those metal straws).
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:52 PM
wonky wonky is offline
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A very simple solution is to make plastic straws which won't fall apart with multiple uses. I suspect ones do today because they are made as cheaply as possible. Ones made for reuse can be made slightly more expensive.
Those can be brought to the restaurant, or even given out on an as needed basis.
Problem solved, environment saved.
Seems like a solution to me, but I can't speak for people with disabilities and don't know all of the issues.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:05 PM
Miller Miller is offline
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But the thing is we have 500 million straws per day on one hand, and on the other, we have a relatively tiny number of disabled people who in the final analysis are griping about having to bring their own reusable straws or plastic straws from home, because the restaurants won't bend over backward to accommodate them exactly.

That was my point- there's no winning for the restaraunts- they either contribute to the plastic straw issue, or they rile up the disabled for not making things easy for them.
I don't see how this is a "no win" situation for restaurants. How is "Don't give straws out to everyone automatically, but keep some behind the counter if someone requests one," not a solution here? Who's "losing" in that scenario?
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:28 PM
backsidejohnny backsidejohnny is offline
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[QUOTE=Joey P;21081863]But you only responded to half of the sentence that you bolded. There are two concerns in that sentence and I stated that I didn't know which one she was speaking about. Also, I only brought it up because those were two of the reasons that people don't like using metal straws mentioned in the article.

From your post #23 -
I don't know if she was talking about the temperature or just it clanking around on her teeth (the teeth thing is what I think about when I see those metal straws).


As I stated in the previous post, I was responding to your concerns (in bold). Not your friend's experience. Then you read an article and find that it's the temperature is the main challenge. Starbucks will figure something out.

Last edited by backsidejohnny; 07-12-2018 at 08:30 PM.
  #40  
Old 07-13-2018, 12:13 AM
Tim@T-Bonham.net Tim@T-Bonham.net is offline
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Coincidentally, I can hear some co-workers talking about this exact issue. One of them was saying that she was trying to find a starbucks with the new lids (because of the novelty). That started a discussion about the straws. She mentioned that she's tried replaceable plastic straws but because she bites her straws ...
In horses, this is called 'cribbing'. It's a disgusting & unhealthy habit that horse trainer & vets work to get rid of, but it's pretty hard to unlearn once a horse becomes addicted to it. It causes problems with their nutrition and the horses' digestive system. Among other things, it causes quite an increased amount of farting.

I'd stay downwind of this co-worker.
  #41  
Old 07-13-2018, 09:45 AM
bump bump is offline
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I don't see how this is a "no win" situation for restaurants. How is "Don't give straws out to everyone automatically, but keep some behind the counter if someone requests one," not a solution here? Who's "losing" in that scenario?
My point is that it seems like these days, if some organization or institution tries to do something helpful in some way, there ALWAYS some other group bitching monstrously about it like they shot their dogs or something.

Yes, restaurants can keep a small stock of plastic straws on hand if they want to. But they shouldn't be required to, any more than they're required to hand out straws at all to anyone.

That's my point in large part; restaurants and companies are trying to do right by the environment by eliminating plastic straws, and here's a group of, frankly, entitled disabled people bitching because these places aren't providing the convenience item that's most convenient to them. They're not required to provide straws at all, and they're certainly not required to keep a special stock for disabled people either, and they're doing nothing wrong by not doing so.

Now if they come to the conclusion that they want to for financial reasons (they have a large disabled customer base) or because they think it's the right thing to do, that's fine and even a good thing. But I don't think they should be being guilted into it or whined into it by a bunch of people who are unwilling to take a little personal initiative and bring their own, if it's such a big deal to them. I've known people who bring their own toilet paper, soap, hot sauce, etc... to places they go, because they didn't like the common options. Why is a straw somehow different just because these people are disabled?
  #42  
Old 07-13-2018, 09:57 AM
Eonwe Eonwe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller View Post
I don't see how this is a "no win" situation for restaurants. How is "Don't give straws out to everyone automatically, but keep some behind the counter if someone requests one," not a solution here? Who's "losing" in that scenario?
As I understand it:

Because they're forcing those who need the straws to ask for them which is embarrassing and draws attention to their disability/puts them at the mercy of the servers behind the counter who might feel empowered to judge whether or not they truly need the straws.

IOW: disabled people shouldn't have to ask for the access ramp to be deployed every time they want to enter the building; it should be there all the time so they can go about their day as independently as possible.
  #43  
Old 07-13-2018, 10:07 AM
puddleglum puddleglum is offline
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Originally Posted by Tim@T-Bonham.net View Post
In horses, this is called 'cribbing'. It's a disgusting & unhealthy habit that horse trainer & vets work to get rid of, but it's pretty hard to unlearn once a horse becomes addicted to it. It causes problems with their nutrition and the horses' digestive system. Among other things, it causes quite an increased amount of farting.

I'd stay downwind of this co-worker.
I didn't even know horses could use straws, or that they like coffee.
  #44  
Old 07-13-2018, 10:34 AM
Banquet Bear Banquet Bear is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
That's my point in large part; restaurants and companies are trying to do right by the environment by eliminating plastic straws, and here's a group of, frankly, entitled disabled people bitching because these places aren't providing the convenience item that's most convenient to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by From the article you cited
"Other types of straws simply do not offer the combination of strength, flexibility, and safety that plastic straws do," Disability Rights Washington, a nonprofit with offices in Seattle, said in a letter it coauthored to the city.

Gilbert has tried to do his part to educate others on why plastic is the most efficient material, but he often gets told he's wrong.

"I'd be more than happy to use more environmentally friendly straws," he said. "(The disabled community) isn't trying to be anti-environment. We're just protecting disabled people."
...I'm fascinated that you characterize this kind of response as "a group of, frankly, entitled disabled people bitching." That doesn't seem like a fair characterization at all.

And this isn't a matter of convenience. Again, from the article you cited:

Quote:
Going without straws can mean struggling through the physical motion of putting a drink to a mouth, or leaking liquid into the lungs, or choking.
Do you think its unreasonable to be able to want to have a drink at a restaurant without a very good chance of choking?

Plastic straws are ubiquitous now. And plastic straws mean that many disabled people can live a normal life and go out to restaurants and cafes and they can enjoy a drink and have a good time. You aren't "entitled" if you want to be able to do the same things as everyone else can do. The entire point is that sometimes doing a "good thing" can have "bad consequences" for somebody else.

Of course people should be speaking up. They have to speak up. If they don't speak up how on earth are there concerns going to be heard?
  #45  
Old 07-13-2018, 11:12 AM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Eonwe View Post
As I understand it:

Because they're forcing those who need the straws to ask for them which is embarrassing and draws attention to their disability/puts them at the mercy of the servers behind the counter who might feel empowered to judge whether or not they truly need the straws.

IOW: disabled people shouldn't have to ask for the access ramp to be deployed every time they want to enter the building; it should be there all the time so they can go about their day as independently as possible.
I'm glad I'm not disabled and thus have the power to be unashamed about asking for a straw or locking horns with some asshole server that thinks they have the right to argue with me about a polite request.

Though if a restaurant wanted to have fun/invite massive criticism, all they'd have to do is charge for the things. "You don't want a cheap paper straw (which are now made out of tissue for some reason)? PAY."
  #46  
Old 07-13-2018, 04:10 PM
kcor1953 kcor1953 is offline
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Until reading this thread I didn't understand that people drink coffee with straws unless they were what is being called disabled.
  #47  
Old 07-13-2018, 04:11 PM
IvoryTowerDenizen IvoryTowerDenizen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcor1953 View Post
Until reading this thread I didn't understand that people drink coffee with straws unless they were what is being called disabled.


Iced coffee in a cup with a lid, like you would iced tea or soda, all the time. Hot coffee, never.

Last edited by IvoryTowerDenizen; 07-13-2018 at 04:17 PM.
  #48  
Old 07-13-2018, 04:46 PM
kcor1953 kcor1953 is offline
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Originally Posted by IvoryTowerDenizen View Post
Iced coffee in a cup with a lid, like you would iced tea or soda, all the time. Hot coffee, never.
Oh. Wimpy drinks. I get it now, thanks.

That indeed is a big big cohort.
  #49  
Old 07-13-2018, 04:56 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is offline
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it turns out that Starbucks will be using more plastic without the straws, because of the new lids.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/12/s...ee-the-company
  #50  
Old 07-13-2018, 05:23 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
it turns out that Starbucks will be using more plastic without the straws, because of the new lids.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/12/s...ee-the-company
Forbes
Quote:
Plastic straws, like the ones used at Starbucks, have fallen out of favor lately as they are rarely recycled. Starbucks plastic straws are recyclable. However, given their size and light weight they are often mechanically sorted out during the recycling process and end up in landfills and waterways.

Starbucks has settled on an alternative to plastic straw use: the adult sippy cup lid. The lid features a raised lip and will be fully recyclable. Some drinks will continue to have straws, including Frappuccinos, but those straws will be made with either compostable plastic or paper.
Ayn Rand was once a contributor to Reason.
Why are you citing a site that hires nutcases?
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