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  #101  
Old 10-21-2019, 04:51 PM
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We're told to expect an 18-24 hour cutoff tonight, comencing in about 4 hours. Lows tonight are mid-40s F so we can tolerate one heatless night, but any longer and we're outa here, maybe into well-lit Nevada. A generator dealer will arrive in an hour, trying to sell us one, but demand is high, so nothing will be installed before January.

PG&E directors and managers should be tried, executed painfully, and their family wealth confiscated. That's a start.
  #102  
Old 10-21-2019, 04:58 PM
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We're told to expect an 18-24 hour cutoff tonight, comencing in about 4 hours. Lows tonight are mid-40s F so we can tolerate one heatless night, but any longer and we're outa here, maybe into well-lit Nevada. A generator dealer will arrive in an hour, trying to sell us one, but demand is high, so nothing will be installed before January.

PG&E directors and managers should be tried, executed painfully, and their family wealth confiscated. That's a start.
Think of all the carbon footprints that you arenít leaving.
  #103  
Old 10-21-2019, 05:08 PM
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Dude, you're a dick.
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  #104  
Old 10-21-2019, 05:47 PM
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Dude, you're a dick.
Hey now! Im not the one calling for torture over a problem the state is in part responsible for.

But I can tell the misanthropes around here are glass half empty types.
  #105  
Old 10-30-2019, 01:48 PM
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Now there is even more stink to this affair.

Southern California Edison equipment was responsible for the Woolsey fire which destroyed 1643 structures, killed three people, and forced the evacuation of more than 295000 people.

Additionally, they and Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E) are being investigated for charging customers during the time their power is shut off.

So besides being thieves, they have money for parties and lavish offices and obscene pay to the top guys but no money to maintain equipment.

I think i's time to END this government sanctioned private monopoly of utilities and take them over. It isn't working. Socialize them and ramp up the oversight.

And maybe start locking people up for negligence and dereliction of duty.
  #106  
Old 10-31-2019, 03:44 PM
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Hubby and I traveled to California at the end of September. Drove from Auburn, CA (north of Sacramento) to San Diego. Beautiful drive. However, much of it was a tinderbox waiting to be lit. Irrigation is clearly allowing millions of people to live in places where they couldn't otherwise; the downside is this constant threat of wildfires.

Since telling people to leave isn't a plausible solution, IMO burying the lines is the only solution. Our subdivision has buried lines, and it's not only more beautiful, but we are rarely without power when the rest of the city is.

Burying lines is going to cost a ton of money, tear up a lot of vegetation, and take a lot of time. But they need to come up with a Plan B. PG&E should invest its profits into making this happen. And customers should pony up some more, too.

P.S. Oh, and speaking of those irrigation channels, they should eventually be enclosed, too. I cannot imagine what percentage of water is being lost to evaporation. Works now but won't work forever.
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  #107  
Old 10-31-2019, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by PunditLisa View Post
Since telling people to leave isn't a plausible solution, IMO burying the lines is the only solution. Our subdivision has buried lines, and it's not only more beautiful, but we are rarely without power when the rest of the city is.

Burying lines is going to cost a ton of money, tear up a lot of vegetation, and take a lot of time. But they need to come up with a Plan B. PG&E should invest its profits into making this happen. And customers should pony up some more, too.
Yes, but buried transmission lines also cost more money every day they are in use, for the decades they will be used.

Buried lines are less efficient than overhead lines (mainly due to capacitance effects, with some minor effect from overheating). This results in higher transmission loss -- this is electricity wasted in the transmission grid. This is already 10-15% wasted in the existing mainly-overhead transmission system; converting to buried transmission lines would waste 2-5% more electricity.

When we are all making efforts to conserve energy, like replacing incandescent light bulbs & adding light timers, we ought to look twice at changes that will cause a 33% increase in transmission line wasted electricity.

Last edited by Tim@T-Bonham.net; 10-31-2019 at 06:47 PM.
  #108  
Old 10-31-2019, 06:50 PM
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Now there is even more stink to this affair.

Southern California Edison equipment was responsible for the Woolsey fire which destroyed 1643 structures, killed three people, and forced the evacuation of more than 295000 people.

Additionally, they and Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E) are being investigated for charging customers during the time their power is shut off.

So besides being thieves, they have money for parties and lavish offices and obscene pay to the top guys but no money to maintain equipment.

I think i's time to END this government sanctioned private monopoly of utilities and take them over. It isn't working. Socialize them and ramp up the oversight.

And maybe start locking people up for negligence and dereliction of duty.
You think the current batch of workers and managers are useless? Have the state take it over and fill it with unionized government workers and youíll need to prepare for real Armageddon.
  #109  
Old 10-31-2019, 06:57 PM
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You think the current batch of workers and managers are useless?
Who said anything about the workers?
  #110  
Old 10-31-2019, 07:15 PM
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You think the current batch of workers and managers are useless? Have the state take it over and fill it with unionized government workers and youíll need to prepare for real Armageddon.
I grew up on a farm near a small town. Everyone got their electricity either from the rural co-op or the city municipal electricity. Both of those were effectively government workers, an they did a good job. (Both had crews that regularly trimmed trees, so they didn't interfere with the power lines -- something PG&E seems to have neglected.) And the electricity prices there were (and still are) cheaper than what I pay to the private electricity company in Minneapolis.

Besides, isn't this problem related to PG&E management, not their workers?
The management decided not to do the needed maintenance work but instead spend the money elsewhere (management bonuses, profits for stockholders). If the workers had been assigned to do the maintenance, it would have been done. I haven't heard complaints about the quality of their work, just that they weren't assigned to do the work.
  #111  
Old 10-31-2019, 07:56 PM
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Yes, but buried transmission lines also cost more money every day they are in use, for the decades they will be used.

Buried lines are less efficient than overhead lines (mainly due to capacitance effects, with some minor effect from overheating). This results in higher transmission loss -- this is electricity wasted in the transmission grid. This is already 10-15% wasted in the existing mainly-overhead transmission system; converting to buried transmission lines would waste 2-5% more electricity.

When we are all making efforts to conserve energy, like replacing incandescent light bulbs & adding light timers, we ought to look twice at changes that will cause a 33% increase in transmission line wasted electricity.
Seems to me that the fires are costing more than burying them would. YMMV.
  #112  
Old 10-31-2019, 07:56 PM
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You think the current batch of workers and managers are useless? Have the state take it over and fill it with unionized government workers and you’ll need to prepare for real Armageddon.
Speaking as a unionized government worker...

..it probably isn't worth getting into it with you. Suffice it to say I think you have either an entirely exaggerated view of how useless government workers are or a hugely inflated view of how comparatively competent private employees are. I work in close contact with a gigantic multi-national corporation - they do not conspicuously cover themselves with glory.

At any rate PG&E employees mostly are unionized and as a utility can effectively be considered quasi-governmental. The fault isn't with the employees, it is largely with inadequate staffing and invested resources and the inappropriate pressures put on them by that inadequate staffing. And that all comes down to money.

Which to be fair is also a problem with fully government-owned utilities - we're always under the gun in terms of funding, as there is a political cost to higher utility rates and taxes. But the profit motive adds a whole 'nother layer of complications.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 10-31-2019 at 08:00 PM.
  #113  
Old 10-31-2019, 09:29 PM
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Seems to me that the fires are costing more than burying them would. YMMV.
Yeah, but the crucial point is that they're not costing PG&E more than burying the lines would.

PG&E is offloading a lot of the cost of the fires on taxpayers (not just California taxpayers, but all American taxpayers). Burying the lines, on the other hand, would cut into the funds available for executive salaries and bonuses, lavish parties, and so on.
  #114  
Old 10-31-2019, 11:45 PM
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I stand corrected! That’s the third time this month.
  #115  
Old 11-01-2019, 08:07 PM
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Gov. Newsom threatens possible PG&E takeover if no plan is made:
Quote:
California’s governor on Friday threatened a possible takeover of the troubled utility blamed for sparking deadly wildfires across the state with its outdated equipment unless it can emerge from bankruptcy ahead of next year’s wildfire season with a plan focused on safety.

Gov. Gavin Newsom called all sides to a meeting early next week, saying he would personally try to mediate a solution involving Pacific Gas & Electric.

But if an agreement can’t be reached, Newsom said, “then the state will prepare itself as backup for a scenario where we do that job for them.”
Quote:
“This is not the new normal,” Newsom said. “There are things that can be done immediately and will be done immediately.”

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 11-01-2019 at 08:08 PM.
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