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  #101  
Old 01-31-2020, 10:33 AM
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I don't understand the question. He's a guy who did many things, the most memorable of which are standup comedy, television, and going to jail at 80 after drugging and raping dozens or hundreds of women over many previous decades. I don't understand where "should" comes into it.
  #102  
Old 01-31-2020, 10:45 AM
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When I was little, the Cosby show was a weekly staple. It was funny, and it showed some great role models in a family setting. I think he was an outstanding comedian who did a lot for kids. I'll always remember that. I'll also remember how he shocked and disappointed millions when his terrible character flaw was revealed and he went to prison in disgrace. For me, it is very reminiscent of the Joe Paterno situation. "Joe Pa" was an icon and the perfect role model and representative for his university. Then, suddenly, he was something awful as well.
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  #103  
Old 01-31-2020, 11:54 AM
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I don't understand the question. He's a guy who did many things, the most memorable of which are standup comedy, television, and going to jail at 80 after drugging and raping dozens or hundreds of women over many previous decades. I don't understand where "should" comes into it.
Yeah, it seems pretty clear that the short-form description of Bill Cosby in say... 2050 ought to read something like:

"Pioneering African American comedian who was also convicted in 2017 of raping multiple women over multiple years."

There's no judgment, just a statement of fact. He is African American, he was a pioneering comedian, and he was convicted of multiple rapes over a long period of time.
  #104  
Old 01-31-2020, 12:01 PM
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How should Cosby be remembered?

As that funny rapist who died in prison.
  #105  
Old 01-31-2020, 12:13 PM
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If I had the choice, I would remember the good with the bad.

But I don't have that choice. Every time I think of the Noah routine or the chocolate cake routine or any episode of the Cosby show, the fact of his crimes comes immediately to mind. Maybe other people can compartmentalize sufficiently to only remember the parts of him they like; I cannot.
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  #106  
Old 01-31-2020, 02:13 PM
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My father and I bonded over Cosby. When my father saw me watching the Fat Albert show one day in the 70s, he handed me a record album with Fat Albert on the cover. Which turned out to be the original stand-up childhood stories where Fat Albert first appeared. I loved them. My father had all the records and we listened together and that was the start of my love of stand-up. My father and I were about the same ages as Bill and his son Ennis, so later on, his routines about his son and puberty, etc. has us absolutely in stitches together. When Ennis died it felt to both of us like losing a family member. And our whole family loved The Cosby Show, of course it was very trite and canned sitcom but Cosby's humor made it so much better than, say, Family Ties.

SoI remember now Cosby as a thief, because those memories are basically stolen from me - As others here have said, I can't think of them cleanly anymore at all, I can't listen my father's records on now to my kids, and it's one of the few times I've said of something "I'm glad my dad didn't live to see this".

Last edited by squidfood; 01-31-2020 at 02:15 PM. Reason: grammar
  #107  
Old 01-31-2020, 02:50 PM
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a guy who wasn't funny, but somehow was so famous he couldn't get a date after the show
  #108  
Old 01-31-2020, 03:02 PM
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a guy who wasn't funny, but somehow was so famous he couldn't get a date after the show
I thought he was uproariously funny. YMMV. I can't listen to him now, knowing what he has done.
  #109  
Old 01-31-2020, 05:17 PM
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It is definitely complicated. I used to enjoy Bill Cosby - Noah, The Chicken Heart, all of that, but I can’t see that anymore through the stories of drugging and raping helpless women.

I can’t watch Kevin Spacey (who I really liked) without remembering he was accused of horrible things and then tried to use coming out of the closet to defend it.

Woody Allen, Polanski...they all join a list of artists that I can’t stomach anymore. Both because of the accusations (and convictions for some) but also the smug, sh*tty way they have carried on as if they are above it all.

When Kobe Bryant died, I also had complicated feelings about it, but I can say when I read his statement admitting that he now sees that she did not consent, at least it gives me, I don’t know, something? At least he gave an apology of sorts. I know it does not undo the horror of the victim’s experience, but I sure wish I had an apology or some kind of acknowledgement from the ones that have hurt me.

Cosby just continues to deny and yell about how unjust the whole thing is - I remember a quote from his wife, Camille, it was something like “Dozens of women keep accusing my husband of rape.” When I read it, I thought “Then I would suggest your husband should not have raped dozens of women.”

Cosby was a charming sexual predator. Most successful ones are, after all.

I will remember him as someone that helped open doors for Black performers, while ruthlessly preying on vulnerable women as an evil deviant predator.
  #110  
Old 01-31-2020, 05:49 PM
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a guy who wasn't funny, but somehow was so famous he couldn't get a date after the show
That is a minority opinion of course. Overall before we all found out he was a serial rapist Cosby was usually listed in top 10 stand-up comedians of all time. Often very high. I know my own list had him second only to Carlin. I sure he'll make a lot less list now. But he was always rated very highly.
  #111  
Old 01-31-2020, 06:04 PM
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That is a minority opinion of course. Overall before we all found out he was a serial rapist Cosby was usually listed in top 10 stand-up comedians of all time. Often very high. I know my own list had him second only to Carlin. I sure he'll make a lot less list now. But he was always rated very highly.
Yeah, his early comedy albums are consistently cited by essentially every major stand up today as the gold standard of comedic timing.

Doesn't make him not a scuzball rapist, but he was one of the best to ever do comedy. Just goes to show being immensely talented doesn't prevent you from also being a monster.

Last edited by NAF1138; 01-31-2020 at 06:04 PM.
  #112  
Old 01-31-2020, 07:12 PM
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I used to love his comedy, and I watched his tv shows. I can't set aside the horrible things he did, however. There's no "should", but I remember him with dislike and a sort of shame - that I ever enjoyed his work.
  #113  
Old 01-31-2020, 07:15 PM
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I thought he was uproariously funny. YMMV. I can't listen to him now, knowing what he has done.
I thought he was incredibly funny in the 60's. Lost sight of him for a while until the late 70's, by which time (IMO) his humor had taken on a disturbingly angry/ugly tone. Never paid any attention to him since then.
I can still listen to those amazing first four albums of his, but my enjoyment is poisoned by what we now know about him.
  #114  
Old 01-31-2020, 07:20 PM
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I thought he was incredibly funny in the 60's. Lost sight of him for a while until the late 70's, by which time (IMO) his humor had taken on a disturbingly angry/ugly tone. Never paid any attention to him since then.
I can still listen to those amazing first four albums of his, but my enjoyment is poisoned by what we now know about him.
Angy and ugly? I don't know. The Himself movie/special wasn't angry and ugly and it was released in 1983.

It's the main special I remember him for and it was really funny.

By absolute coincidence, I watched it just a few days before the Hannibal Buress thing blew up bigtime.
  #115  
Old 02-04-2020, 07:18 PM
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Oh, well, that's OK I guess. Only ONE. I'm sure the victim feels much better. He only raped one woman. Easy to forgive.



Just stating the obvious,
if you really believe it was "rape"? She didn't conduct herself like someone who had been raped, her panties had semen from 4 guys (obviously didn't change between sex partners); had she pressed charges Kobe would have been crucified in all-White Colorado, but chose not to do so since her credibility would have been questioned. It was nothing more than money grab against rich celebrity.
  #116  
Old 02-04-2020, 07:51 PM
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if you really believe it was "rape"? She didn't conduct herself like someone who had been raped, her panties had semen from 4 guys (obviously didn't change between sex partners); had she pressed charges Kobe would have been crucified in all-White Colorado, but chose not to do so since her credibility would have been questioned. It was nothing more than money grab against rich celebrity.
Maybe. It's fair to say, but it's hardly a settled question.
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  #117  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:40 PM
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fedman, I've already Warned Just Asking Questions over dragging Kobe Bryant into this thread. There are other threads for that. Any further discussion of Bryant's case in this thread, by anyone, will result in a Warning.
  #118  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:40 PM
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[Moderating]

fedman, I've already Warned Just Asking Questions over dragging Kobe Bryant into this thread. There are other threads for that. Any further discussion of Bryant's case in this thread, by anyone, will result in a Warning.
  #119  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:12 PM
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There was ONE rape allegation against Kobe Bryant. Repeat: ONE.

OTOH, more than 60 women have accused him of either attempted sexual assault, rape, drug-facilitated sexual assault, sexual battery, child sexual abuse, or sexual misconduct, all of which he has denied, and the statute of limitations had by the mid-2010s expired in nearly all cases. Cosby was found guilty of three counts of aggravated indecent assault and sentenced to three to ten years in prison in September 2018,

Get your facts right.
[edit because of moderator statement]

Answer to OP question I think is obviously that Cosby will be seen mainly in terms of his sexual crimes. And it's harder anyway to separate the work of a comedian from his persona and his time. Ty Cobb was a bad guy by most accounts and generally viewed as one now, but a .366 career batting average is what it is. Even if you might correct it for how you think believe baseball has become harder for hitters in more recent times, it doesn't make a lot of sense to put some other player ahead of Cobb in batting because they were a better person. [edit] Some people say they are really cracked up by 100 yr ago silent movie comedy but I don't get that and I think it's pretty exceptional. Comedians will be judged mainly by people in or close to their own time, then mainly forgotten, I think. So their persona's matter more to their legacy than giants of long lived sports traditions, let alone artists from centuries ago.

Last edited by Corry El; 02-04-2020 at 10:14 PM.
  #120  
Old 02-06-2020, 11:57 AM
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[Moderating]

fedman, I've already Warned Just Asking Questions over dragging Kobe Bryant into this thread. There are other threads for that. Any further discussion of Bryant's case in this thread, by anyone, will result in a Warning.
What other threads? I searched on Kobe and didn't find any.
  #121  
Old 02-06-2020, 11:59 AM
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What other threads? I searched on Kobe and didn't find any.
NM.... I think I may have found one more suitable.
  #122  
Old 02-06-2020, 01:11 PM
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a guy who wasn't funny, but somehow was so famous he couldn't get a date after the show
Who said he couldn't get a date? Are you suggesting that failure to get dates is the cause of rape?
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