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  #551  
Old 10-31-2016, 08:15 PM
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If that's a demonstration of 'sun placement in the solar system' then Star Citizen must use a Ptolemaic model of the solar system.
  #552  
Old 11-01-2016, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amanset View Post
NMS is out, was written by a team at least a twentieth of the size of Star Citizen and runs on a stock PS4.

But keep on waiting and I guess keep on wth your bizarre obsession with a game that you haven't even played.
All these people hating on NMS for not meeting expectations, whether real or perceived, does not bode at all well for fans of Star Citizen.
  #553  
Old 11-01-2016, 06:45 AM
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Which, of course, has very real and much higher expectations.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 11-01-2016 at 06:45 AM.
  #554  
Old 11-01-2016, 11:05 AM
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To be honest that is very funny. Being angry about the hype of NMS, but jumping well down the hype train for Star Citizen.
  #555  
Old 11-01-2016, 11:43 AM
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Makes a certain amount of sense, all things considered. It's a reminder of where Star Citizen is likely headed.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 11-01-2016 at 11:47 AM.
  #556  
Old 11-01-2016, 11:51 AM
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Except the backlash against Star Citizen will be so much greater.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 11-01-2016 at 11:51 AM.
  #557  
Old 11-01-2016, 12:00 PM
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Interesting overview of NMS phenomenon from Forbes.
  #558  
Old 11-01-2016, 12:02 PM
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At least NMS got released. I have a bit of buyer's remorse over the $60 I paid for it, but at least I have a game I can putz around in for a couple hours when nothing sounds interesting.

Star Citizen is a dream at this point. Nothing about their releases in the last year give me any indication that there will be a release date.
  #559  
Old 11-01-2016, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
To be honest that is very funny. Being angry about the hype of NMS, but jumping well down the hype train for Star Citizen.
I assume we're talking about me. At least Skywatcher is. I haven't jumped on the Star Citizen hype train at all. In fact, my main statement there in that thread is telling people not to get so invested in unreleased games because it just leads to impatience, annoyance, and disappointment. Just let it come out and then evaluate it then, instead of massively emotionally investing in it way ahead of time. There's no contradiction there at all. I've only said that it's silly to write it off as vaporware because it's been in development for years. But for a game as ambitious as that you'd expect it to be.
  #560  
Old 11-01-2016, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Incidentally, Star Citizen has released a video showing off the effect of sun placement in a solar system. Because in their game, the sun is an actual object that occupies space and casts light. It even affects the direction of the reflected light off the little moon in the background. And it appears to show atmospheric effects changing the color of the light cast on the ground when near the horizon. It's not just a skybox with a sun. It's a real solar system.

In that little 5 second demo, they're showing off more universe-building than the entirety of NMS manages.
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If that's a demonstration of 'sun placement in the solar system' then Star Citizen must use a Ptolemaic model of the solar system.
Posting without comment.
  #561  
Old 11-01-2016, 04:34 PM
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The contradiction is that you have repeatedly railed against developers for duping consumers into paying money for games in advance (because they are getting free money to deliver products that may or may not ever delivered), and have railed against consumers for paying money for games in advance (because they are encouraging a broken system).

Look at your very first post in this thread:

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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
This game has reached ridiculous levels of hype. It's made by a studio that's only made some shitty movie tie in games, promising some vague but revolutionary gameplay, and it's reached Spore levels of hype. I think there's a very high chance this results in huge disappointment.
But with Star Citizen, you've pretty consistently defended it as nobly ambitious. Here's your first post in the Star Citizen thread:

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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
I think there's a circle jerk against this game in a lot of the gaming media because it's so ambitious and so obviously bucks the trends of gaming through rehashing, unambitious development, short turnaround games pumping out iterative franchises, dumbing down, consolization, etc.
So why the disconnect? There's no way in hell anybody could have accused NMS of being unambitious, iterative, or of rehashing tired tropes. Why does Star Citizen get a pass for ambition but NMS didn't?
  #562  
Old 11-01-2016, 04:53 PM
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Posting without comment.
Are you trying to use that quote to demonstrate that I'm a true believer in Star Citizen or something? My purpose to post that wasn't even to praise Star Citizen, it was to show that an incidental bit of detail created in that game ended up doing a better job of it than NMS, in which such a feature was far more important core to the development, did. It's cute, though, that you want to attack Star Citizen to try to get me back for attacking NMS. But as I explained in post 447, I'm not the sort of person who makes what I'm interested in or what I want to like my identity, so I would never take it personally if someone insulted a game I want to see succeed.

As for that poster's criticism, obviously that's not the entirety of solar body placement. That tool would be used for checking out how various states of sun positioning would affect the appearance of the landscape, since the developer could freely set the ecliptic and the rotation of the planet relative to the sun in a way they found pleasing. The sun would be placed in real 3d space (or the planet's rotation and ecliptic set to match an already-placed sun) after using this tool to get the desired positioning. I just posted it because it shows off that the sun is an actual physical object with extensive lighting and atmospheric effects as viewed by the planet, the sort of thing NMS promised but never delivered, and not just a skybox.
  #563  
Old 11-01-2016, 05:02 PM
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The contradiction is that you have repeatedly railed against developers for duping consumers into paying money for games in advance (because they are getting free money to deliver products that may or may not ever delivered), and have railed against consumers for paying money for games in advance (because they are encouraging a broken system).
No Man's Sky is a conventionally funded game. They were given investment money by investors/publisher, dictated a release schedule, etc. The game was coming out whether or not people preordered it. Preordering did nothing to make the game come to fruition. It would've been released on the same day regardless of preorders. As such, preorders merely indicate a blind faith and impatience to have it on day one, to make the purchasing decision ahead of time. You aren't making a risk/reward decision. You are taking all of the risk with none of the reward.

Crowdfunding is entirely different. Crowdfunding is an alternative method to funding games than the traditional investor/publisher model that gives developers, rather than investors, control over the direction of the game. If no one put their money into a crowdfunded game, it would never exist, or would have to exist in a form that compromised the developer's dream to suit the investor model So while you're also taking risk - there's a potential reward there - a game you're really interested has no chance to come into fruition unless you, and people like you, invest in it.

Quote:
Look at your very first post in this thread:



But with Star Citizen, you've pretty consistently defended it as nobly ambitious. Here's your first post in the Star Citizen thread:



So why the disconnect? There's no way in hell anybody could have accused NMS of being unambitious, iterative, or of rehashing tired tropes. Why does Star Citizen get a pass for ambition but NMS didn't?
First of all, you know that NMS sky has released and has basically been demonstrated to be a scam, right? Up until release day, they were still lying about fundamental features in the game. It wasn't that they were overly ambitious, couldn't pull it off, and reduced their scale and told people about it. They were lying even up to the very last day about what the game was.

My criticism of NMS happened after it was released, and after we found out it was a scam. So you're asking me why I'm treating a game, which had been released and became a known quantity, and turned out to be a scam, differently from a game that's in the middle of development.

If Star Citizen turns out to have been a scam - that they were lying about everything and taking the money and running and all the developers go silent and run off to Tahiti laughing it up while counting our millions, I will be just as critical towards it.

My praise towards Star Citizen has been pretty mild. I've basically just said "wait and see what comes of it" to people who are declaring that it must be a big vaporware scam because it didn't come out in 2 years like the annual Call of Duty reskins. And I was still rooting for NMS to be good until it was clear that it was not. The difference is that I waited to see if it was actually good or not before purchasing it.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-01-2016 at 05:05 PM.
  #564  
Old 11-01-2016, 07:34 PM
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Mod note


This topic is about No Man's Sky, let's take the Star Citizen part out of it (it has its own thread).

Last edited by Idle Thoughts; 11-01-2016 at 07:34 PM.
  #565  
Old 11-12-2016, 01:10 PM
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No Man's Sky will "reveal itself to be all that it can be" in time, Sony exec says
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Speaking on Live with YouTube Gaming, the Sony executive said that he believes Sean Murray and his team "had an incredible vision of what they were going to create." He said it was something that had never been done before, which was a "very huge ambition" for a "very small team." While it may not have launched to exactly what some people were expecting, Layden says Hello Games is "still working at" getting it "closer to what their vision was."
  #566  
Old 11-12-2016, 02:06 PM
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Well, I'm convinced.
  #567  
Old 11-12-2016, 02:16 PM
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Big Updates Are Coming To 'No Man's Sky!'
  #568  
Old 11-13-2016, 05:33 AM
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That appears to just be a rehash of the previous story by another site.

I honestly think it's too late to turn the tide of gamer public opinion, to be honest. Regardless of what I personally feel (I haven't bought it, and now won't), I think it's going to take something major - full multiplayer, perhaps - to get people back into it.

Currently, 356 people playing it on steam. It's a long way back from there.
  #569  
Old 11-13-2016, 12:30 PM
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That appears to just be a rehash of the previous story by another site.
It's a rehash of that story plus this story.
  #570  
Old 11-13-2016, 12:44 PM
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There's no chance they recover this one. They're just going to disband the company and reform as something else. The launch was too disastrous to recover from, there's not really a whole lot there to work with (revamping the game significantly would require a lot of development), they've already made 95%+ of the money the game will ever make even if they decide to sell DLC down the road. The game doesn't just need minor tweaks, it needs a lot of reworking and new content.

Offhand, the only time I can think of where there are huge reclamation projects where a company puts a huge amount of work in a bad loss is when it's a big name franchise where the existance of such a terrible game drags the franchise down. With NMS, their company and the game have no attachment to anything (other than maybe the blunder of Sony promoting it), so there's not a brand name to save.

I still think they're laughing it up on some beach somewhere.
  #571  
Old 11-13-2016, 12:53 PM
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'No Man's Sky' Internal PC Updates Keep Posting, But Where Are Hello Games & Sean Murray?
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With each day that passes, belief is strengthening that development has ceased altogether. About a month ago, rumors gained traction that the Hello Games studio had been completely abandoned. That story was quietly debunked, but, again, no details were offered on the title’s future.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 11-13-2016 at 12:54 PM.
  #572  
Old 11-13-2016, 03:25 PM
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Of course, at this point silence is the only option.

If they say anything at all about what they're working on (if anything), and even one syllable of that turns out to be wrong, the entire shitstorm will start all over again. They literally can't risk promising anything, since if they fail to deliver it along with a keystroke that makes the feature happen instantly (since all content available must be visible the first eight minutes of gameplay, or the critics will declare it nonexistent), the internet will just start the bonfires again.

Last edited by TimeWinder; 11-13-2016 at 03:25 PM.
  #573  
Old 11-13-2016, 03:47 PM
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I disagree - I think they've managed to incur maximum backlash already. People are assuming they took the money and run. Going "radio silent" on this only reinforces everyone's perception that they were scammed. I think people would want the hope that the communication would give them, and the lack of communication is.. well, I was going to say the final nail in the coffin, but at this point it's more like welding it shut.
  #574  
Old 11-13-2016, 03:54 PM
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As linked in post 571, they were working on something as recently as four weeks ago but have not said what.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 11-13-2016 at 03:54 PM.
  #575  
Old 11-15-2016, 12:14 PM
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Apparently an Easter egg in Watch Dogs 2 has led to speculation that Hello Games has an offer from Ubisoft.
  #576  
Old 11-15-2016, 12:17 PM
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There's no chance they recover this one. They're just going to disband the company and reform as something else. The launch was too disastrous to recover from, there's not really a whole lot there to work with (revamping the game significantly would require a lot of development), they've already made 95%+ of the money the game will ever make even if they decide to sell DLC down the road. The game doesn't just need minor tweaks, it needs a lot of reworking and new content.
The technical issue are irrelvant. Really, it doesn't matter if the game can be fixed. The BRAND is irreparably damaged. You could make it a really good game; no one will trust a game called "No Man's Sky," which is a shame inasmuch as it's a great title.

Someday someone will create the game this game was supposed to be.
  #577  
Old 11-23-2016, 03:08 PM
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NMS just hit GoG, which I'm guessing sets a record for fastest chuck in the bargain bin ever.
  #578  
Old 11-23-2016, 03:23 PM
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NMS just hit GoG, which I'm guessing sets a record for fastest chuck in the bargain bin ever.
GOG isn't just bargain bin games, for what it's worth. I bought Witcher III there at release, and they have other A-list titles, frequently at launch. They've been trying to become a competitor to Steam for years, although their terrible UI and tools are holding them back.

In particular, NMS's GOG listing is at the full $59.99 price, although it's on sale at the moment for 40% off ($35 or so).
  #579  
Old 11-23-2016, 03:31 PM
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GOG isn't just bargain bin games, for what it's worth. I bought Witcher III there at release, and they have other A-list titles, frequently at launch. They've been trying to become a competitor to Steam for years, although their terrible UI and tools are holding them back.

In particular, NMS's GOG listing is at the full $59.99 price, although it's on sale at the moment for 40% off ($35 or so).
Ah ok, thank you for the clarification. I haven't used it for a bit, and I think back in the day it was older/bargain games.
  #580  
Old 11-23-2016, 04:33 PM
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Anybody have a viewpoint as to whether NMS is worth it at 40% off?
  #581  
Old 11-23-2016, 05:04 PM
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I rarely (very) buy games as soon as they're released. NMS was one I was making an exception for. Fortunately, I was in the middle of F4 still, which gave me time to see the aftermath.

I have no intention to buy it at all now. Hurrying F4 a bit because I still have one more game one the queue I need to play before I can get Dishomored 2.

Then again, I don't havemuch time to play and have to use my game time wisely. Maybe if I had hours a day to game I'd check it out.
  #582  
Old 11-23-2016, 05:15 PM
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If you're getting it on PC I'd wait until its about $5 -$10 and then mod the hell out of it and you'll have a fun, relaxed game to drop into for 20 minutes at a time to sight-see around the galaxy.
  #583  
Old 11-23-2016, 08:20 PM
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GOG isn't just bargain bin games, for what it's worth. I bought Witcher III there at release, and they have other A-list titles, frequently at launch. They've been trying to become a competitor to Steam for years, although their terrible UI and tools are holding them back.

In particular, NMS's GOG listing is at the full $59.99 price, although it's on sale at the moment for 40% off ($35 or so).
And NMS was released on GoG same day as steam.

Last edited by krondys; 11-23-2016 at 08:22 PM. Reason: Misspelled a 3-letter acronym...
  #584  
Old 11-23-2016, 08:25 PM
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And, for those that don't know, GoG was created by, and is owned by, CD Projekt Red, the makers of the Witcher series.
  #585  
Old 11-23-2016, 08:28 PM
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Anybody have a viewpoint as to whether NMS is worth it at 40% off?
For me, the problem is that the exploration gets too repetitive. I don't know what sort of refund policy GOG has so you probably should wait to see if Steam offers an equal, or even bigger, discount; then you'll be sure to have a refund available if it's not for you.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 11-23-2016 at 08:30 PM.
  #586  
Old 11-23-2016, 08:41 PM
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It is 40% on Steam as well.

Maybe I'll wait until the Steam Summer Sale and see if I can get it for $20.

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 11-23-2016 at 08:42 PM.
  #587  
Old 11-26-2016, 01:54 AM
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Hello, update news!
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This week Hello Games will be releasing an update to No Man’s Sky. We’re calling it The Foundation Update, because we have added the foundations of base building, and also because this is putting in place a foundation for things to come.
Detailed patch notes will follow, and release will be soon.
  #588  
Old 11-26-2016, 09:23 AM
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I read about this yesterday. The language makes it sound like they're hedging against people being disappointed with the amount o content in the patch. I'll definitely be watching.
  #589  
Old 11-26-2016, 02:37 PM
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I think spending their developmental effort on base building in a game where the design is to keepe exploring new places and never come back, when there are already so many fundamental problems with the core gameplay loop, is a very strange direction to focus their efforts. It would suggest they think the core gameplay loop is fine, and they want to add (weirdly contradictory) content rather than address that.
  #590  
Old 11-26-2016, 02:50 PM
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Uh, they need to start somewhere. You said it yourself:
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
The game doesn't just need minor tweaks, it needs a lot of reworking and new content.
No to mention:
Quote:
I still think they're laughing it up on some beach somewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
People are assuming they took the money and run. Going "radio silent" on this only reinforces everyone's perception that they were scammed. I think people would want the hope that the communication would give them, and the lack of communication is.. well, I was going to say the final nail in the coffin, but at this point it's more like welding it shut.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 11-26-2016 at 02:53 PM.
  #591  
Old 11-26-2016, 03:06 PM
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The discussion around No Man’s Sky since release has been intense and dramatic.
Well, they're not wrong about that.

They do have to start somewhere. I don't know, maybe they think the core gameplay loop needs more options to retrace your steps easily, which I understand isn't easy in the current setup, and that would make base building more appealing.
  #592  
Old 11-26-2016, 03:10 PM
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Yeah, they're clearly working toward something and have been for the past couple of months.
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This update will be the first small step in a longer journey. We hope you can join us.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 11-26-2016 at 03:12 PM.
  #593  
Old 11-26-2016, 03:16 PM
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I do hope they manage to inject some life into the game. I'd still buy it if they managed to make it compelling enough.
  #594  
Old 11-26-2016, 03:26 PM
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I honestly have no idea when I'll try the game again. I have over 550 games in Steam alone and many of them haven't been started yet!

Last edited by Skywatcher; 11-26-2016 at 03:28 PM.
  #595  
Old 11-26-2016, 03:29 PM
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Heh, yeah, I just started making a serious go at Wasteland 2 after it just sitting in my queue for a couple years.
  #596  
Old 11-26-2016, 08:22 PM
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Heh, yeah, I just started making a serious go at Wasteland 2 after it just sitting in my queue for a couple years.
It's really good; I don't think you'll be disappointed - especially if you liked the OG Fallout games.
  #597  
Old 11-26-2016, 08:42 PM
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Oh yeah, I'm really enjoying it. I think the reason I got frustrated last time was because I had a really badly optimized party. I cheated a bit this time and used a start guide to make sure I'd be good.

I also used custom avatars for my main party members, and the silly Facebook photos of my friends are making things a lot of fun.
  #598  
Old 11-27-2016, 03:39 AM
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It's very odd that they pre announced this with no details. Why not just wait until it's released then announce that this is just the first of many? And yeah base building make sure no sense.
  #599  
Old 11-27-2016, 04:53 AM
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Uh, they need to start somewhere. You said it yourself:No to mention:
"Starting somewhere" would be fixing the core gameplay loop and making it the game that people wanted. Improving variety of planets, making resource gathering more interesting, making the world feel alive, making animals look and act less ridiculous, adding some sort of story or goals, add in missing features like trading or faction wars, dozens of things they said would be in the game that aren't.

The whole game is about scouting around and discovering new things and moving from place to place - so having them try to make some minecraft light game where you're locked in place adds an element that doesn't even play into the game's core premise while they neglect all the missing features that are part of its core premise. Base building is about 200th on the list of things they should be looking to do to the game. Even if you wanted to add some sort of building mode, being able to design/improve your ship makes so much more sense than building bases on disposable planets.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-27-2016 at 04:55 AM.
  #600  
Old 11-27-2016, 08:06 AM
coremelt is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,656
The foundation update is out.
http://www.no-mans-sky.com/foundation-update/

An impressive amount of improvements. Your base has a teleporter, solves the problem rather neatly I guess. You can also buy freighters and set up a mobile base, and they've added two new game modes, creative and survival.

This actually sounds like something I want to play now. Lets see when people have had time to play with the new version.
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