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  #701  
Old 09-22-2019, 11:54 PM
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My regolith powered steam turbines are producing a BLISTERING 80 KW.

...

I've been robbed! LOL
  #702  
Old 09-22-2019, 11:55 PM
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Oh wait, there's hardly any steam in there yet. Phew. I was wondering why it was so low. The average density is only 30 g/tile. It needs to be much higher to power a turbine effectively (I think I read somewhere about 1.5 kg/tile minimum).
  #703  
Old 09-23-2019, 01:12 PM
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224 grams of super coolant escape into my water supply. Oops. Someday a dupe is going to be taking a drink of water and be like "I found the missing super coolant."
  #704  
Old 09-23-2019, 05:57 PM
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Sometimes when I'm playing this game I feel like I'm in Asimov's Foundation universe and I'm facing a Seldon crisis.

"By now, you should have food and oxygen production mastered. But to truly grow you need electricity. ..."

Man, now I want reread Foundation again.
  #705  
Old 09-23-2019, 06:15 PM
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I think I have more of The Martian in mind when building. Heat, water, food, air--all constantly on the verge of failing and me doing everything in my power to keep the pieces together.
  #706  
Old 09-23-2019, 06:37 PM
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I can see The Martian comparisons too. Man, loved that book as well.

Did you read his second book Artemis? It wasn't as good as The Martian but still a good read.
  #707  
Old 09-23-2019, 08:04 PM
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This shall no longer be known as the Space Biome! No, it will now be known as the Drywall Biome.

Sure it taking a long time to build all that drywall.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1871283879

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 09-23-2019 at 08:04 PM.
  #708  
Old 09-23-2019, 08:23 PM
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Did you read his second book Artemis? It wasn't as good as The Martian but still a good read.
Yeah, agreed. The protagonist wasn't quite as compelling, and the setup not quite as believable... but I still enjoyed it.

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This shall no longer be known as the Space Biome! No, it will now be known as the Drywall Biome.
That reminds me of another ONI wish list item. The most annoying thing about drywall is that you can't build walls on top of it. If you ever have to move a wall around, you have to deconstruct the old wall, exposing your base to vacuum, then deconstruct the drywall in the new place (for more vacuum), then reconstruct the wall and drywall in the new place. Drywall should be its own layer, allowing me to just build it everywhere in a region and then build normal walls on top.
  #709  
Old 09-23-2019, 08:34 PM
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Yeah, agreed. The protagonist wasn't quite as compelling, and the setup not quite as believable... but I still enjoyed it.



That reminds me of another ONI wish list item. The most annoying thing about drywall is that you can't build walls on top of it. If you ever have to move a wall around, you have to deconstruct the old wall, exposing your base to vacuum, then deconstruct the drywall in the new place (for more vacuum), then reconstruct the wall and drywall in the new place. Drywall should be its own layer, allowing me to just build it everywhere in a region and then build normal walls on top.
Yes, I would love this. I'm not looking forward to actually building the living areas and such. It'll be a pain. Even if it would just replace the drywall in one go, like when you build a different tile on top of another tile would be a huge improvement.
  #710  
Old 09-23-2019, 08:49 PM
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Even if it would just replace the drywall in one go, like when you build a different tile on top of another tile would be a huge improvement.
Yeah, that would be fine, too. The weird part is that it feels like an artificial restriction; drywall (and tempshift plate) is clearly already a sort of special case since you can put normal buildings in front of it. And yet it somehow still collides with normal tiles.
  #711  
Old 09-23-2019, 10:19 PM
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Any idea why my cargo bays come back about 75% full? I'm going to a carbon asteroid, so everything is solid. I would expect my cargo bay to be full no?
  #712  
Old 09-23-2019, 11:31 PM
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There are two possibilities I know of:
- You're close the max range of your rocket. At a certain point, your rocket will sacrifice cargo to make it back to the base. I think it'll tell you this on the left-hand status panel in the starmap.
- You've pulled too much mass from the target. If you keep going to the same destination, it'll deplete and you won't get a full load back after that. It slowly refills over time, but if you want more frequent missions you'll have to spread out the targets. I think it'll say in the rocket status if you won't get the full cargo capacity back.
  #713  
Old 09-23-2019, 11:49 PM
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Ahhh, so the max range indicator doesn't include cargo weight. Makes sense now. So I need to add a bit more fuel to carry the cargo back. Thanks!
  #714  
Old 09-24-2019, 12:31 AM
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Hmm. I think it is actually that I overvisited. I knew about the overvisting mechanic but I wasn't really tracking it.
  #715  
Old 09-24-2019, 08:26 AM
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Almost ready to start moving in.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1871550919
  #716  
Old 09-24-2019, 08:30 PM
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Just about done moving to the new base on the surface.

I just need to move my industry to just under the main base. Basically, anything that needs a dupe skill will be just under the base, everything else will be elsewhere.

The idea is to minimize travel time for my dupes.

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  #717  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:32 AM
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OK, I'm still not as far along in the game as everyone else, but I do have my first aquatuner/steam turbine setup going. I'm using it to chill a big cistern of water I plan to use to cool other things. That cistern may be bigger than I need it to be; the aquatuner's been running continuously for a long time, but it's close. I plan to keep it around 1 degree. The problem is, the steam turbine gives me disappointingly little power back. Even with the aquatuner running continuously, the turbine only runs maybe 1/8 of the time, and when it does run it only gets up to about 240W. Does this setup just not get any more efficient until you get super coolant, or did I do something wrong?
  #718  
Old 09-25-2019, 01:31 AM
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I plan to keep it around 1 degree.
Farming sleet wheat?

Big cisterns are good. Lots of buffering for when you use a lot of water at once and it needs to refill. Same net energy use, aside from the initial chilldown.

You didn't say, but I predict you're using oil or petroleum as coolant. Otherwise, the water would be freezing in the pipes if you're shooting for 1 C.

Oil has miserable heat capacity, and so the aquatuner just doesn't put out enough heat to drive a turbine at more than around 250 W. Water as coolant is much better at ~600 W. And of course supercoolant is best, and can drive a turbine at full blast and then some (>1000 W).

If you aren't farming wheat, can you get away with warmer temperatures, like 15 C? Then you can use water directly as coolant. Otherwise, either live with the low efficiency of oil or get some supercoolant.
  #719  
Old 09-25-2019, 01:39 AM
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Just realized something: polluted water has a significantly lower freezing point than water (-20 C), but the same heat capacity. That means you can use it as a coolant for temperatures near 0 C. You have to be a little careful that you don't get it too cold, so you need some thermostat automation, but it can work.

Just as a reminder in case you aren't aware--one pass through an aquatuner cools by 14 C, regardless of the fluid. That's why if you're cooling to 1 C, you need something with a lower freezing point, since it'll come out of the aquatuner at -13 C. That's also why you want a high heat capacity--the mass is fixed (10 kg/s), and the temperature difference is fixed (14 C), so the heat capacity is what controls the amount of heat that the aquatuner moves.
  #720  
Old 09-25-2019, 09:07 AM
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Keep in mind as well that the turbine cannot convert heat into electricity that doesn't exist. You're only moving heat, not creating it. So if the area your cooling isn't very hot, then the turbine won't run for very long. There's not much heat to convert. So the steam turbine will always do what it can.

The other factor to keep in mind is the material of the aquatuner. A steam turbine will only convert steam of heat equal to or higher than 125 C. But a gold amalgam aquatuner usually should be shutdown around 125 C (that's the overheat temperature). You can get away with spiking it up to 130-135 C for a moment of two but that's about it. So, it is difficult for the aquatuner to maintain the steam turbine reaction. Once you have steel, you can easily heat the aquatuner up to 250 C (275 is the failure point), and hence maintain the reaction ... except remember point #1 above. You can only convert heat that actually really exists. If there's no heat, then there's no reaction.

So yes, depending on the situation, it is entirely plausible that the steam turbine might not engage that much. But I wouldn't worry about it too much either. In such a situation, the aquatuner should be hardly running.

Note, that there is an initialization cost as well. Again, since the steam turbine can only work on 125 C steam, *you* have to pay the upfront cost of getting the initial supply of water up to 125 C. So hot water is best (if you have a vent with 95 C water use that). If you put 7 C water in there, you'll have to pay to heat it up. What do I mean by pay to heat it up? Well, your aquatuner will have to run with basically no return.

So your cooling unit might still be in the initialization phase, where your still paying the bulk of the cost to get up to a reliable temperature, and there may not be too much heat in the area to sustain it.

In this case, what I do is extend the piping such that I'm cooling a larger area. Cooling a larger area means I'm absorbing more heat. More heat means a more sustained conversion. It is all a balancing act. You don't want to cool so much of an area that you cannot keep up (more of an issue with gold amalgam than steel or thermium).

As an example, my steel aquatuner in my new base is cooling the *entire* living area plus the kitchen. But there's not really that much heat there, that's why I'm doing the whole thing. I have a couple of electrolyzers, jukebot, espresso machine, a few light bulbs, and the stoves. So that one cooler is very capable of cooling that entire area and the combination of all of those devices produces some decent heat to convert. However, if I had run the cooling only through the kitchen, then there might not be enough heat to absorb.

I was actually considering last night to turn cooling into one giant relay. So rather than separate systems, have one LONG pipe that runs through coolers (aquatuner+turbine) in different areas. That way I'm guaranteed to absorb all the heat, and I'll make the temperature in the entire base smooth (i.e. some heat from hot areas will be transferred to overcooled areas) instead of being so spikey from blue to green.

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 09-25-2019 at 09:10 AM.
  #721  
Old 09-25-2019, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
Just realized something: polluted water has a significantly lower freezing point than water (-20 C), but the same heat capacity. That means you can use it as a coolant for temperatures near 0 C. You have to be a little careful that you don't get it too cold, so you need some thermostat automation, but it can work.

Just as a reminder in case you aren't aware--one pass through an aquatuner cools by 14 C, regardless of the fluid. That's why if you're cooling to 1 C, you need something with a lower freezing point, since it'll come out of the aquatuner at -13 C. That's also why you want a high heat capacity--the mass is fixed (10 kg/s), and the temperature difference is fixed (14 C), so the heat capacity is what controls the amount of heat that the aquatuner moves.
I used polluted water until I got super coolant. What gave me the idea was the slush geyser. The water coming out of there was -6 C (or about). So it was a great initial flush into the radiant pipes to give instant cooling. Then like you I ended up looking at the properties and had the same realization you did.
  #722  
Old 09-25-2019, 10:32 AM
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I'm using polluted water as coolant, with some automation to prevent it from reaching -20. It hasn't gotten there yet; the aquatuner is still running full-time. And the aquatuner is steel.

I wonder, could it be that I put too much water in the aquatuner chamber? Looking at these pics of other people's bases, I wondered why everyone puts such little water in there, so I put in enough water to cover the entire bottom row (i.e., 1000kg per tile) then another 200kg per tile or so. I thought what would happen is that because of the pressure, not all of it would convert to steam, and I'd be left with a water bath along the bottom row. Instead, what happens is that it all gets vaporized to steam at ridiculously high pressures (450kg per tile or so.) I wouldn't think that would make a difference, I'd just have more heat capacity, so it would take longer for the steam to get above 125 C, but also take longer to get back below 125. But once it gets above 125, the turbine only runs for about 15 seconds before the 95 C water coming out cools the remaining steam below 125 and it stops running, then it's about 90 seconds before it gets above 125 again and the turbine kicks in.
  #723  
Old 09-25-2019, 10:52 AM
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I'm using polluted water as coolant, with some automation to prevent it from reaching -20. It hasn't gotten there yet; the aquatuner is still running full-time. And the aquatuner is steel.

I wonder, could it be that I put too much water in the aquatuner chamber? Looking at these pics of other people's bases, I wondered why everyone puts such little water in there, so I put in enough water to cover the entire bottom row (i.e., 1000kg per tile) then another 200kg per tile or so. I thought what would happen is that because of the pressure, not all of it would convert to steam, and I'd be left with a water bath along the bottom row. Instead, what happens is that it all gets vaporized to steam at ridiculously high pressures (450kg per tile or so.) I wouldn't think that would make a difference, I'd just have more heat capacity, so it would take longer for the steam to get above 125 C, but also take longer to get back below 125. But once it gets above 125, the turbine only runs for about 15 seconds before the 95 C water coming out cools the remaining steam below 125 and it stops running, then it's about 90 seconds before it gets above 125 again and the turbine kicks in.
If you have too much water, it definitely hurts efficiency. It takes a looooooooong time to get it up to 125 C (so much higher initialization cost), and it is harder to maintain.

I use about 40-60 kg of water, and even then I sometimes think it might be too much.
  #724  
Old 09-25-2019, 04:51 PM
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Instead, what happens is that it all gets vaporized to steam at ridiculously high pressures (450kg per tile or so.)
Yep. For better or worse, ONI doesn't model latent heat of vaporization. That's what allows water and steam to coexist in the real world--even at the same temperature, you have to add additional energy to make the phase transition between liquid and gas. Instead, ONI just changes phases at a certain temperature threshold, so if there's good thermal conductivity in a system, it'll either be all gas or all liquid.

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I wouldn't think that would make a difference, I'd just have more heat capacity, so it would take longer for the steam to get above 125 C, but also take longer to get back below 125.
In principle, this is true. It's certainly supposed to be true, given ONI's version of the laws of physics. However, I know there are weird quirks in the engine that allow heat to be deleted even outside of their strange machines (turbines, nullifiers, etc.), and it may well be that extremely high pressures are one of them. I'd try lowering the pressure to the 10-20 kg/tile range.

I did run into a similar issue when I made a very small steam chamber. I normally have a 3-high chamber, with the aquatuner in the bottom 2 rows and the top row left open. But I once tried a 2-high chamber, and it had similar behavior to what you describe--the turbine wasn't running as long as I'd expect. So now I always stick with 3-high chambers.
  #725  
Old 09-25-2019, 08:02 PM
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Well, this is it. Time to make some liquid hydrogen. This should be fun.
  #726  
Old 09-25-2019, 08:26 PM
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It is funny to watch my old living space fall to ruin. Carbon dioxide and other gases are taking over. I'm taking things apart. Other things have such little value they aren't worth deconstructing. Power systems are going offline. Heating units are being turned off. What was once abuzz with dupes now has a few farmers and ranchers coming to pick up food that continues to grow there. Ranches will eventually be moved. But it is just so cool to see. It is like I can see how other places have become ruins. The people move out and little bits and pieces are all that is left behind.
  #727  
Old 09-25-2019, 08:35 PM
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Well, this is it. Time to make some liquid hydrogen. This should be fun.
Good luck! I still haven't found a design I'm truly happy with, though I have some ideas about the next one.

One thing that I discovered late: super coolant can't freeze, even if it's at the minimum temperature and run through an aquatuner. I think they changed this at some point since I pretty distinctly remember having some pipes break, but in any case it's not a concern now.

My current oxygen liquifier can make LOX just about as quick as I can pump it in, but I've never hit the same rates with LH2. I'm hoping the same basic design will work for LH2, but we'll see.
  #728  
Old 09-25-2019, 09:29 PM
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Found this and thought some of the posters might enjoy it too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=lLIP-Tpm7-k
  #729  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:18 PM
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That moment when you find a Shove Vole in the middle of your base.

How the frak did he get there?????
  #730  
Old 09-26-2019, 09:25 AM
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I finally finished exploring the last little corner of the map. And I found a THIRD natural gas geyser! OMG, it has been sitting there this whole time just barely out of sight!!! ARGH!
  #731  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:31 PM
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So this is what I ended up with as my hydrogen liquifier version 1. I know I can make a much better version, but it does work, albeit slowly.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1873225475
  #732  
Old 09-26-2019, 05:09 PM
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Regolith Turbine version 3! I could have made this better but I had intended to put two turbines. For some reason I thought they were four tiles wides not 5 (5 inputs, duh). It actually powers one turbine really well.

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  #733  
Old 09-26-2019, 05:14 PM
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So this is what I ended up with as my hydrogen liquifier version 1. I know I can make a much better version, but it does work, albeit slowly.
Huh! I was thinking you were going to have problems with the LH2 expanding in your pipes, since it pumps it as soon as it condenses. But it looks like you're using a flow valve, which if you set to 1 kg/s will mean the liquid won't break your pipes. So if that's what you're doing, you shouldn't have a problem.

I like to have big storage tanks so that I can refuel a rocket immediately, which means I don't want to have a flow valve. So for me it's important that the tank is as far below the condensation point as I can manage, though it's tricky because there's such a small difference between the condensation and freezing points with hydrogen. But I think I can make it work.

I see that you like to use pumpless designs. They always seemed a tad too exploity for my tastes, though clearly they have a power and compactness savings.
  #734  
Old 09-26-2019, 05:20 PM
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Huh! I was thinking you were going to have problems with the LH2 expanding in your pipes, since it pumps it as soon as it condenses. But it looks like you're using a flow valve, which if you set to 1 kg/s will mean the liquid won't break your pipes. So if that's what you're doing, you shouldn't have a problem.

I like to have big storage tanks so that I can refuel a rocket immediately, which means I don't want to have a flow valve. So for me it's important that the tank is as far below the condensation point as I can manage, though it's tricky because there's such a small difference between the condensation and freezing points with hydrogen. But I think I can make it work.

I see that you like to use pumpless designs. They always seemed a tad too exploity for my tastes, though clearly they have a power and compactness savings.
I have a pump. I'm not sure what you mean.

I definitely want to add a liquid canister to the setup. This was just to get a rough idea on the issues surrounding making LH2. Finding good temperatures, cooling the thermo aquatuner, etc. Proof of concept. Now I'll build the real thing.
  #735  
Old 09-26-2019, 05:38 PM
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I have a pump. I'm not sure what you mean.
I mean for the circulation of the coolant. You used the same technique for the standalone coolers, where the aquatuner just connects to itself in a loop. Circulates endlessly without a pump. Obviously the game allows it, but in the spirit of role play I don't use those designs. Basically, any fluid flow should be traceable back to an origin point with a pump, though it may pass through several machines after that.
  #736  
Old 09-26-2019, 05:48 PM
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I mean for the circulation of the coolant. You used the same technique for the standalone coolers, where the aquatuner just connects to itself in a loop. Circulates endlessly without a pump. Obviously the game allows it, but in the spirit of role play I don't use those designs. Basically, any fluid flow should be traceable back to an origin point with a pump, though it may pass through several machines after that.
Ahh. See I figure for 1200 metal (400 for a pump) the aquatuner includes a rudimentary pump. I.e. it would cost 800 metal if it didn't have a pumping effect.

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 09-26-2019 at 05:51 PM.
  #737  
Old 09-27-2019, 08:01 AM
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I think I may start on a new, harder world. I think this base is as good as it will get it. Now that I have LH2 and LOX, I can trivially make a rocket to go to the temporal tear. It is simply a question of building the ship and making the fuel. Maybe I should do that before I start a new game. Just get it done and then start over.
  #738  
Old 09-27-2019, 09:29 AM
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I'm building and fueling a ship to do the temporal tear before I start a new world. It is interesting, but the regolith turbine produces more consistent power than a solar panel. The regolith turbine produces between 400-650W. 24 hours a cycle, every cycle. This is superior to the solar panel which maxes out at 380W, and it off quite often (during the night and storms). The only issue is heat, but cooling turbines is trivial. I may never build solar panels again. ;P
  #739  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:34 PM
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Hmmm so if you get a bit unlucky with the way meteors fall for a couple of storms in a row, your turbines can end up with no heat to convert.

I'll need to solve that problem to make it more consistent.

It doesn't help that most of my regolith has been eaten by shove voles. If I were doing this from the start, I would be keeping all that sweet sweet regolith around to power the turbines.
  #740  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:19 PM
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Yeah, the problem with renewable energy, just like on Earth, is that it's inconsistent. Fortunately I keep big stores of hydrogen, natural gas, petroleum, and ethanol around. Plenty of combustible materials to cover the slack. Most days, solar+turbines covers well over half my production, but some days I get unlucky with the meteor storms.

Anyhoo, launch that rocket! You may be mildly surprised at one aspect of the flight, but I'll let you discover that for yourself.

I'm sorta thinking of going for the gassy moo achievement. But I may go back to my old base since I already have a chlorine liquifier there. The gassy moos would be fantastic (they can turn a chlorine geyser into a 10x natural gas geyser), but the fact that they can't reproduce makes them incredibly annoying. So I think I'll just go for the achievement instead of really using them as an energy source.
  #741  
Old 09-28-2019, 09:14 AM
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Running at maximum speed with the game in the background (I feel that space travel takes too long. I cannot imagine trying to use the most distant worlds as a source of resources), I've lost 3 dupes. They sure are good at getting themselves in trouble. ;P
  #742  
Old 09-28-2019, 09:59 AM
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Yeah, the problem with renewable energy, just like on Earth, is that it's inconsistent. Fortunately I keep big stores of hydrogen, natural gas, petroleum, and ethanol around. Plenty of combustible materials to cover the slack. Most days, solar+turbines covers well over half my production, but some days I get unlucky with the meteor storms.
Even with my diverse portfolio of power generation, I still run into issues where I don't produce enough energy and my base goes into a downward spiral. Problem is when I have a surplus of power I build these elaborate mechanisms for things like cooling the base or automating production. But I need to put in some automation so they can shut down in a controlled manner so critical systems get highest priority for resources.

i.e I can't generate oxygen or food because the now limited resources are all going to preparing perfect espressos for my dupes.
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Old 10-03-2019, 03:10 PM
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....and now everyone is dead
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Old 10-03-2019, 08:21 PM
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i.e I can't generate oxygen or food because the now limited resources are all going to preparing perfect espressos for my dupes.
I know what you mean. In fact, I'm currently fighting my own way through power problems. My hydrogen liquifier worked a little too well, and I liquified my entire stores. That left just natural gas, but my vent was shutting down just as I needed it. I had a spate of bad luck with solar; getting less than half power on average due to storms. And I had a backup petroleum generator, but it's incredibly inefficient, because I have to do something with the excess heat and CO2 and all the extra pumps and stuff take even more energy.

I wasn't in immediate peril, but I was slowly burning through my stores. And I pretty much had one dupe full time on oil refinery duty. Not ideal.

So I manually went through my base, disabled everything that I could get away with, and generally handheld things until at least my geysers were producing at a decent level again. Coulda been bad. Sorry to hear about your base .

Maybe this is getting more complicated than they really want, but it would be cool if they had an actual computer control system. Sometimes I want pretty complicated logic on my systems and building it all out of gates is a challenge. For instance, I want a priority system for my power generation that takes storage levels into account, and can shut down unneeded systems if things get too dire. A system with several automation inputs and outputs, with an internal programming interface would make these things easier.
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Old 10-11-2019, 08:06 PM
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Maybe this is getting more complicated than they really want, but it would be cool if they had an actual computer control system. Sometimes I want pretty complicated logic on my systems and building it all out of gates is a challenge. For instance, I want a priority system for my power generation that takes storage levels into account, and can shut down unneeded systems if things get too dire. A system with several automation inputs and outputs, with an internal programming interface would make these things easier.
Yeah, the gates can end up taking up a lot of room. To the point that some players may end up using a computer room; In the sense that there is an entire room dedicated to just holding gates and wires.

Is an actual computer control system the kind of element that could be done through a mod? Because if you know anyone with programming skills and an interest in innovative tech, that could be up their alley.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:41 PM
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Because if you know anyone with programming skills and an interest in innovative tech, that could be up their alley.
Hmm; who could you be referring to ?

I looked into it a bit. The basic idea is straightforward. The problem as I see it is that ONI has only very limited means for user configuration of buildings. It has numeric sliders, checkboxes, and a couple of other things, but that's it. It doesn't appear to support anything like a text input box, which I'd need here (alongside a few other things).

It's possible that a deeper mod could add support for this, but ONI mod documentation appears to be pretty sparse, and while I've reverse-engineered harder things before, I'm not quite motivated enough in this case. Plus my expertise is mostly in the C++ world, not C#.
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:08 PM
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I'm using polluted water as coolant, with some automation to prevent it from reaching -20. It hasn't gotten there yet; the aquatuner is still running full-time. And the aquatuner is steel.

I wonder, could it be that I put too much water in the aquatuner chamber? Looking at these pics of other people's bases, I wondered why everyone puts such little water in there, so I put in enough water to cover the entire bottom row (i.e., 1000kg per tile) then another 200kg per tile or so. I thought what would happen is that because of the pressure, not all of it would convert to steam, and I'd be left with a water bath along the bottom row. Instead, what happens is that it all gets vaporized to steam at ridiculously high pressures (450kg per tile or so.) I wouldn't think that would make a difference, I'd just have more heat capacity, so it would take longer for the steam to get above 125 C, but also take longer to get back below 125. But once it gets above 125, the turbine only runs for about 15 seconds before the 95 C water coming out cools the remaining steam below 125 and it stops running, then it's about 90 seconds before it gets above 125 again and the turbine kicks in.
In case any lurkers out there are interested, too much water was in fact the problem. I rebuilt the cooling setup such that once the water is all vaporized, it's about 15kg steam per tile, and that works much better. The steam turbine runs much longer and more often.

To those out there with much more experience at this game, did you find on your subsequent playthroughs you were much more efficient? I've been reading Jahws' "Surviving" guides which were linked earlier in the thread, and he's launching rockets by cycle 380. I'm past cycle 600 and I haven't even started refining oil yet.
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:19 PM
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my expertise is mostly in the C++ world, not C#.
If you'll correct my ignorance: How is that a problem? Going from C# to C++ could be a problem because you have to learn to do things like allocate memory. What's more complicated to do in C# than C++?



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Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post

I looked into it a bit. The basic idea is straightforward. The problem as I see it is that ONI has only very limited means for user configuration of buildings. It has numeric sliders, checkboxes, and a couple of other things, but that's it. It doesn't appear to support anything like a text input box, which I'd need here (alongside a few other things).
The best I can come up with is some kind of centralized room with switches to all the relevant buildings so you can turn as many of them on/off as you like while minimizing commute. It's not as good as doing it automatically, though. I doubt they'll include a programming interface, even in a game like this, although I bet it would be possible to make some pretty interesting games following the Zachtronics model of gamifying programming elements and principles. Do you know what percentage of the population has programming skills?
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:31 PM
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I'm definitely more efficient, but I haven't attempted to minimize the cycles at all. Oasisse is only my second real playthrough, and really it was significantly easier than the first, despite being on the most difficult standard preset. But I was careful to take things slow so as to not grow beyond my means. So no early rocket attempt.

I suppose I could go back to the standard preset and see how quickly I could pull off a launch. That would probably mean going for a high dupe count. Might be a fun thing to try.

Good to hear about the steam turbine. Sounds like some kind of heat physics bug with high pressures.
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:50 PM
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If you'll correct my ignorance: How is that a problem? Going from C# to C++ could be a problem because you have to learn to do things like allocate memory. What's more complicated to do in C# than C++?
It's not harder, just more outside my core experience.

For instance, I'm used to stepping through x86 assembly when trying to figure out the behavior of some unknown function. It's pretty tedious and can be hard to keep track of what's happening, but I'm reasonably good at it at this point. But no one steps through C# bytecode; instead one can use decompiler tools to convert back to source, and from what I hear they work pretty well because of the extra information embedded in C# binaries. However, I'm not familiar with these tools because I only every use C# for little quickie projects. Not harder, just different.

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The best I can come up with is some kind of centralized room with switches to all the relevant buildings so you can turn as many of them on/off as you like while minimizing commute.
One cool-looking mod I came across was a wireless automation signal transmitter. You built a transmitter and receiver building, and then selected a channel from 1 to 100.

Although apparently intended just to avoid super-long automation wire runs, it would also make some logic setups much easier. No routing problems obviously, and also if you need to swap two signals, you just change channels--no need to rewire anything.

Now that I think about it, that combined with a kind of ubergate would really simplify things. Toggles for invert input A, invert input B, invert output, and XOR vs. OR would be sufficient for just about everything interesting, I think.

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Do you know what percentage of the population has programming skills?
No idea. But the programming interface I'm thinking of wouldn't require more advanced knowledge than the gates to--less, actually. I think more people than wrap their heads around if/then/else constructs than, say, XOR gates or SR latches.
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