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  #5901  
Old 09-29-2015, 04:53 PM
Esox Lucius is offline
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Wanna bet they find this guy curled up in the fetal position clutching his gun to his chest, crying, "Don't let them take it away, Mommy!"?
  #5902  
Old 09-30-2015, 01:13 PM
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Apparently some gun nuts think it's unreasonable for private property owners to tell them to leave their guns outside.
Quote:
Billy Welch said that he stopped at the Waffle House Sunday morning for breakfast. He was in his Army National Guard uniform and had his gun holstered to his side. After ordering his food, Welch said that a waitress signaled for him to come over.

"I got up and I walked over to them, asked them how they were doing and stuff, and they said I'd have to take my firearm outside,” said Welch. "I don't feel comfortable taking my firearm away from me. I always keep it with me and they said, ‘it's one of our policies.’"
Look, bozo: numero uno, you're not a cop. You don't need to carry your gun everywhere in order to protect the public safety. You're a soldier. When you're sent to Afghanistan or wherever, you will need your gun. And even then, you won't be allowed to just carry it around with you on base, if I understand military policy correctly.

Numero two-o: if you don't feel secure without it when you're in the Nicholasville, KY Waffle House, then maybe you should eat at someplace where you actually feel safe. Like your own kitchen, because I doubt anywhere else would fill the bill.

Seriously, this is one of the things that always gets me about gun owners wanting to take their guns into places (restaurants, bars, etc.) where you're there to relax, eat, drink, and have fun. If you don't feel that that place is safe enough for you to spend time in without your gun, then jeez, find some other place to relax in where you don't have to worry about needing a firearm all of a sudden.

Numero three-o: just put the gun in the glove compartment when you leave the house, then lock the glove compartment and the car itself when you leave the car to go into a business establishment. It ain't that hard. And you can stand to be without your gun for long enough to eat breakfast, you big baby.

Numero four-o: it's their restaurant. You're not the one who was imposed upon here, though that's how you acted. Rather, you made the morning an awkward one for a couple of waitresses who did their best to be diplomatic with a guy who could have killed them right then and there.
  #5903  
Old 09-30-2015, 01:15 PM
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I don't feel safe in a Waffle House either. But I assume it's the food that's dangerous.
  #5904  
Old 09-30-2015, 01:31 PM
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This story is hinky. Army folks, are you allowed to wear a personal firearm in an exposed holster while in uniform? I would think that would violate the uniform regs.

Secondly, he's not allowed to bring his gun on any US military installation -- are the rules for guard bases different? I doubt it. So what was he planning on doing, parking his car off base? Violating the rules? Or going home first to drop off his gun?

If he was going home after breakfast, then he probably shouldn't have been in uniform.

Sounds like a douchebag all around.
  #5905  
Old 09-30-2015, 01:41 PM
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I don't feel safe in a Waffle House either. But I assume it's the food that's dangerous.
The syrup makes me twitchy.
  #5906  
Old 09-30-2015, 01:41 PM
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I was in the NG over 30 years ago. We were discouraged from wearing our fatigues outside of drill; you could get away with stopping at the grocery store on the way home from drill, but sitting in a restaurant wouldn't have been cool. Personal weapons at the NG Armory were out of the question.
  #5907  
Old 09-30-2015, 08:28 PM
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I don't feel safe in a Waffle House either. But I assume it's the food that's dangerous.
I ate there once and dubbed it "The Awful House".
  #5908  
Old 10-01-2015, 01:37 PM
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Another responsible gun owner has a bad day, kills 15 people at an Oregon community college.
  #5909  
Old 10-01-2015, 01:41 PM
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Oh no. According to the N.R.A. he has had a blood-red letter day.

These are the days they dream of. The stuff of advertising campaigns.
The stuff of the 2nd Amendment.

Sick fucks.
  #5910  
Old 10-01-2015, 02:02 PM
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Another responsible gun owner has a bad day, kills 15 people at an Oregon community college.
Do we actually know anything about the shooter yet, or is "responsible gun owner" just snark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartooniverse View Post
Oh no. According to the N.R.A. he has had a blood-red letter day.

These are the days they dream of. The stuff of advertising campaigns.
The stuff of the 2nd Amendment.

Sick fucks.
More snark, or are you actually claiming the NRA has commented on the shooting?
  #5911  
Old 10-01-2015, 02:05 PM
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Oh. Not snark.

Sad truth.
  #5912  
Old 10-01-2015, 02:10 PM
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More snark, or are you actually claiming the NRA has commented on the shooting?
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Originally Posted by Cartooniverse View Post
Oh. Not snark. Sad truth.
Link please.
  #5913  
Old 10-01-2015, 02:10 PM
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Do we actually know anything about the shooter yet, or is "responsible gun owner" just snark?
In America, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. So until we hear otherwise, he is a responsible, lawful gun owner.

Or are you suggesting we should make assumptions about guilt in the absence of evidence?
  #5914  
Old 10-01-2015, 02:23 PM
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Another responsible gun owner has a bad day, kills 15 people at an Oregon community college.
"Now is not the time" etc.
  #5915  
Old 10-01-2015, 02:28 PM
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Another responsible gun owner has a bad day, kills 15 people at an Oregon community college.
He was teaching. Teaching about bullets and fear and stuff.
  #5916  
Old 10-01-2015, 02:33 PM
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We've been through all of this before.

Now is not the time.... good guys with guns...yada yada yada.
  #5917  
Old 10-01-2015, 02:33 PM
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Hey, Damuri, tell us more about this "exposure therapy" shit.
  #5918  
Old 10-01-2015, 02:58 PM
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Roseburg gunman's alleged 4chan posting from yesterday.
  #5919  
Old 10-01-2015, 03:27 PM
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Good lord, there's some sick fucks out there.
  #5920  
Old 10-01-2015, 03:39 PM
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Good lord, there's some sick fucks out there.
And a few right here, too.

But we should be over our "hoplophobia" by now, shouldn't we? It happens enough.
Quote:
Thursday's shooting at a community college in Oregon is the 142nd school shooting in the United States since the December 2012 Sandy Hook massacre ... The Oregon campus shootings is the 294th mass shooting this year
IOW, more than one a day.
  #5921  
Old 10-01-2015, 04:13 PM
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We've been through all of this before.

Now is not the time.... good guys with guns...yada yada yada.
So, I'm sure someone's pointed this out before, but... fuck it, I'm annoyed.

If we say, for the sake of argument, that the week following a mass shooting is 'too early' to talk about taking action to stop them, the full list of days so far this year when it would have been appropriate to discuss are as follows:

Wednesday, April 15th.

It would have to be a short discussion, though, since there were two more of them the following day.

(I don't have data for September to hand. There's a small chance there might be a day in there. Wouldn't bet on it, though.)
  #5922  
Old 10-01-2015, 04:19 PM
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So, I'm sure someone's pointed this out before, but... fuck it, I'm annoyed.

If we say, for the sake of argument, that the week following a mass shooting is 'too early' to talk about taking action to stop them, the full list of days so far this year when it would have been appropriate to discuss are as follows:

Wednesday, April 15th.
Tax Day is not the day for politics.
  #5923  
Old 10-01-2015, 04:25 PM
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Why don't we pick a random day next year to discuss guns and gun violence? If we plan ahead - then it won't be reactionary. Although it will almost certainly follow another mass shooting somewhere - so there is that . . .
  #5924  
Old 10-01-2015, 04:27 PM
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Do we actually know anything about the shooter yet, or is "responsible gun owner" just snark?

More snark, or are you actually claiming the NRA has commented on the shooting?
Not the NRA as such, but:

Ben Carson and right-wing Twitter politicize Oregon shooting with pro-gun agenda: “Democrats and the media want us unarmed and helpless”

At least Alex Jones hasn't floated a theory that this shooting was a government false-flag op . . . so far as I've heard . . . yet . . .
  #5925  
Old 10-01-2015, 04:38 PM
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Do we actually know anything about the shooter yet, or is "responsible gun owner" just snark?
TheSeaOtter's link identfies the shooter as a 20 year old male who sacrificed his life in defense of his 2A rights.
  #5926  
Old 10-01-2015, 04:50 PM
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Not the NRA as such, but:

Ben Carson and right-wing Twitter politicize Oregon shooting with pro-gun agenda: “Democrats and the media want us unarmed and helpless”

At least Alex Jones hasn't floated a theory that this shooting was a government false-flag op . . . so far as I've heard . . . yet . . .
Wow. "... there will be calls for more gun control, and that happens every time we have one of these incidents ..." Now that is a brain surgeon!
  #5927  
Old 10-01-2015, 05:28 PM
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What's the old movie line...I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more?

Well I'm mad as hell about these endless school shootings. People are shooting down our children and it HAS TO STOP! I don't give a rip right now about anyone's right to bear arms. I'm ready to make gun ownership by anyone but law enforcement punishable by death. Shut down the damn gun manufacturers. No one in this country is forced to hunt to eat anymore. Get guns out of this country, whatever it takes.

If people still won't give up their guns, tax ammunition. Make each bullet cost $1,500 dollars or more. There is limited damage any nutcase can do with one or two bullets. Call it the Barney Fife law.

In a few short years my grandchildren will start going to school. I do NOT want to see them head to school every morning wearing bullet-proof vests and fearing for their lives from some idiot with a gun.

I've never liked the fact that any ordinary citizen can lead his normal everyday life packing heat. If you have a gun, eventually you will use it or someone will steal it and they will use it. If that gun were never there in the first place, there would be 0% change of it being the instrument involved in shooting anyone.

We have an emergency in this country when it comes to guns and our children. We need to wake up and see that and fix it.

Full disclosure. One of my sons was present in the theatre complex when James Holmes shot it up, although thankfully in the chamber next to the one he chose for his attack. I will never again be unbiased about the issue of personal weapons.
  #5928  
Old 10-01-2015, 05:32 PM
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Link please.
This Internet link provides details in hundreds of gun murders.

There ya go, cupcake.
  #5929  
Old 10-01-2015, 06:58 PM
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The sheriff handling this latest mass shooting opposed doing anything after Newtown. Because the Second Commandment is holy.

But nothing can be done, observes The Onion, topical and fast as ever.
Quote:
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.”
Some of you need to shut up, get the hell out of the way, and let us try to fix it.
  #5930  
Old 10-01-2015, 09:14 PM
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And yet the votes to ban or heavily restrict guns aren't there. And don't blame that boogeyman "The NRA"- if Congresscritters vote by lobbying power, then why isn't there an anti-NRA that is better funded, more politically powerful, and commands more grassroot support? Why doesn't the Brady Campaign set national gun policy? Why have states loosened restrictions on carry rather than tightened them? Do you think that somehow happened by magic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartooniverse
This Internet link provides details in hundreds of gun murders.

There ya go, cupcake.
Try again. And if you recall I didn't ask for statistics on gun murders, I asked for a link supporting your claim that
Quote:
According to the N.R.A. he has had a blood-red letter day.

These are the days they dream of. The stuff of advertising campaigns.
The stuff of the 2nd Amendment.
IOW, cite facts or shut up, but don't put words in other peoples' mouths.

And don't call me cupcake.
  #5931  
Old 10-01-2015, 09:45 PM
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And don't blame that boogeyman "The NRA"- if Congresscritters vote by lobbying power, then why isn't there an anti-NRA that is better funded, more politically powerful, and commands more grassroot support?
Because the NRA is the lobbying arm of the gun manufacturers, who have virtually unlimited resources to throw against any gun safety legislation. You seem to think this issue is decided by grassroots public support, when it is actually choreographed by money interests, plus a willingness to abandon public safety for private profit. Those who believe the gummint is coming for their guns are just pawns.
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  #5932  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
US mass shooting at [add place]

[add photo from scene]
[add photo from scene]

A gunman has shot numerous people at a US [college / school / mall / other].
Initial reports are that [add big number] have been killed and [add even bigger number] are seriously wounded.

Little is known about the gunman at present, but media are swarming to the area and will soon interview someone who will confirm the shooter appeared [completely normal and was a credit to his parents / to be a loner who kept to himself (note: change gender in unlikely event shooter is female)].

People across America are sending their prayers to people at [add place], with those from the Mid-West and the South adding a small footnote reminding God that guns aren’t the real problem.

An NRA spokesman said the mass shooting at [add place] showed it was time for the goverment to attack the real problem of [mental illness / Islamic fundamentalism / something else (not guns)].
Shamelessly stolen from http://eveningharold.com/2015/10/01/...-at-add-place/
  #5933  
Old 10-02-2015, 04:47 AM
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We need to stop politicizing the deaths of innocent Americans and get back to talking about Benghazi.
  #5934  
Old 10-02-2015, 08:26 AM
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And yet the votes to ban or heavily restrict guns aren't there. And don't blame that boogeyman "The NRA"- if Congresscritters vote by lobbying power, then why isn't there an anti-NRA that is better funded, more politically powerful, and commands more grassroot support? Why doesn't the Brady Campaign set national gun policy? Why have states loosened restrictions on carry rather than tightened them? Do you think that somehow happened by magic?
What would it take to get you to rethink your opposition?

What is the difference between Chris Harper-Mercer and you? How can the rest of us tell? Hell, how can you tell?

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 10-02-2015 at 08:28 AM.
  #5935  
Old 10-02-2015, 08:36 AM
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What would it take to get you to rethink your opposition?

What is the difference between Chris Harper-Mercer and you? How can the rest of us tell? Hell, how can you tell?
What is the difference between Chris Harper-Mercer and you? How can the rest of us tell? Hell, how can you tell?
  #5936  
Old 10-02-2015, 08:44 AM
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I'm not armed. Are you?

And, assuming you are, what would be your answer?

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 10-02-2015 at 08:45 AM.
  #5937  
Old 10-02-2015, 09:10 AM
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I'm not armed. Are you?

And, assuming you are, what would be your answer?
I don't want to kill people. That is a major difference between you and me.
  #5938  
Old 10-02-2015, 09:13 AM
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How do I know you don't, and never will? How do you even know?

Step aside and let the grownups deal with it, please.

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 10-02-2015 at 09:14 AM.
  #5939  
Old 10-02-2015, 09:59 AM
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And yet the votes to ban or heavily restrict guns aren't there. And don't blame that boogeyman "The NRA"- if Congresscritters vote by lobbying power, then why isn't there an anti-NRA that is better funded, more politically powerful, and commands more grassroot support? Why doesn't the Brady Campaign set national gun policy?
Since we're in the Pit let me point out that this is STUPID. Its stupidity is independent of which side of The Great Gun Divide that I or you or the majority of Americans might be on.

Lobbying, and hence legislator response, is NOT proportional to the number of voters who click a particular box. It's instead related to the vehemence of the support, to how important that issue is to people on one side or the other.

Voters who support gun control tend to be rational thinkers(*), who are concerned about a variety of issues: quality of education, equal opportunity, environmentalism, police brutality etc. etc. Gun freaks, OTOH, tend to be obsessed with a single issue: Guns Guns GUNS GUNS!!!! I want my GUNS! ... This isn't me just speculating; I've read voter interviews of homosexuals who favor rational economic and social policies, but vote for the Republiopaths anyway because of GUNS!!!!

* - Although I consider myself a rationalist, I was neutral on the topic of gun control until I started reading these threads. The arguments still haven't swayed me one or the other. But I now oppose America's gun culture for the simple reason that the Gun Nuts are, as a rule, ridiculously stupid people.

Hope this helps.
  #5940  
Old 10-02-2015, 10:08 AM
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I agree with septimus as long as "gun freaks" doesn't encompass all gun owners. I know plenty of gun owners and none of them obsess over their weapons. It's the other kind of gun owner that brings the cray-cray.
  #5941  
Old 10-02-2015, 10:28 AM
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* - Although I consider myself a rationalist, I was neutral on the topic of gun control until I started reading these threads. The arguments still haven't swayed me one or the other. But I now oppose America's gun culture for the simple reason that the Gun Nuts are, as a rule, ridiculously stupid people.

Hope this helps.
Should be easy, then, for smart, rational people to accomplish their agenda when the opposition is "ridiculously stupid." Yet, they don't seem to be doing that. Perhaps they are making the common error of underestimating their opposition and overestimating themselves.

Last edited by Scumpup; 10-02-2015 at 10:29 AM.
  #5942  
Old 10-02-2015, 10:46 AM
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I agree with septimus as long as "gun freaks" doesn't encompass all gun owners. I know plenty of gun owners and none of them obsess over their weapons. It's the other kind of gun owner that brings the cray-cray.
How can you tell the difference?

And please note the perception of dangerousness doesn't necessarily align with the reality. Plenty of killings are caused by the guns of the sane, "responsible" kind, too, many more. And plenty of the crazies lack the courage to do anything more than post on anonymous message boards.
  #5943  
Old 10-02-2015, 11:25 AM
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We've been through all of this before.

Now is not the time.... good guys with guns...yada yada yada.
"To the Victims of This Tragedy We Send Our Thoughts and Prayers" by Roy Zimmerman
  #5944  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:11 PM
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Should be easy, then, for smart, rational people to accomplish their agenda when the opposition is "ridiculously stupid." Yet, they don't seem to be doing that. Perhaps they are making the common error of underestimating their opposition and overestimating themselves.
And now we know Scummy Pup can't even read for comprehension. Or the first paragraph of my post disappeared from your brain before you go to the last paragraph.

Thanks for helping to prove my point
  #5945  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:46 PM
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And now we know Scummy Pup can't even read for comprehension. Or the first paragraph of my post disappeared from your brain before you go to the last paragraph.

Thanks for helping to prove my point
Yeah..yeah..all that you're "neutral" and "rational" preening. I don't think you know what either word means, otherwise you wouldn't have chosen them to describe yourself. BTW, username-based insults really aren't done unless you are part of the 12-or under crowd.
  #5946  
Old 10-02-2015, 01:02 PM
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Because the NRA is the lobbying arm of the gun manufacturers, who have virtually unlimited resources to throw against any gun safety legislation.
I'll accept cites supporting this assertion if you have any, but I am unaware that domestic gun manufacturers have "virtually unlimited resources", let alone throw it against gun safety regulation (how exactly do you do that anyway-bribes?) I suspect you're conflating gun manufacturers like Glock, Sig Sauer, etc. with the military arms industry, the people who make tanks, missiles and bombers. Those DO have multi-billion dollar lobbying budgets.

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How do I know you don't, and never will? How do you even know?
I own lots of kitchen knives, and you don't know I'll never use one to stab you to death. Or make homemade bombs (which can typically kill more people than a gun massacre), or poison gas (I know a simple way to kill everyone in an enclosed room with household chemicals). Let's face it, you can't be sure you're "safe" as long as anything resembling freedom exists.

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Lobbying, and hence legislator response, is NOT proportional to the number of voters who click a particular box. It's instead related to the vehemence of the support, to how important that issue is to people on one side or the other.
Then my question is why don't people care enough about preventing gun massacres to out-lobby the gun "freaks"? What have YOU done to promote gun control lately?

It seems to me that the main difference is that the anti's mostly view government as a autonomous power one pleads to for blessings; while gun rights supporters have remembered that democracy was never intended to be a spectator sport- they organize and actually participate in political action to uphold their agenda.

Obama's latest address on the Oregon shootings shows the typical reaction: instead of having the stones to call for repealing the Second Amendment*, he reiterates the tired refrain that we need more "sensible" gun laws to "keep guns out of the wrong hands"- sympathetic murmurs that ignore that if the gun control crowd could have done so, they would have already. And his wistful longing for British or Australian gun confiscation is a fantasy. Obama's address is little more than a risk-free platitude because he knows there isn't a snowball in Hell's chance it could actually be done.

*I swear the Left doesn't WANT any amendment of substance, as if they're fundamentally against using that provision of government.
  #5947  
Old 10-02-2015, 01:06 PM
Fear Itself is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
I own lots of kitchen knives, and you don't know I'll never use one to stab you to death. Or make homemade bombs (which can typically kill more people than a gun massacre), or poison gas (I know a simple way to kill everyone in an enclosed room with household chemicals).
Then why do you need a gun to protect yourself? Just take your knives, or bombs or poison gas (!) with you, and you can defend yourself just as well as with a gun. Now that we have settled the self-defense issue, you won't mind if we make it harder for guns to be used in mass murders?
  #5948  
Old 10-02-2015, 01:12 PM
ElvisL1ves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
I own lots of kitchen knives, and you don't know I'll never use one to stab you to death. Or make homemade bombs (which can typically kill more people than a gun massacre), or poison gas (I know a simple way to kill everyone in an enclosed room with household chemicals).
So no, I don't and can't know you're not a deadly menace. How do you know? Or are you even claiming to be?

Quote:
Let's face it, you can't be sure you're "safe" as long as anything resembling freedom exists.
That's what you're calling "freedom"? The freedom to kill?

Quote:
Then my question is why don't people care enough about preventing gun massacres to out-lobby the gun "freaks"? What have YOU done to promote gun control lately?
Helping people like you expose themselves for what they are, before you can get anybody else hurt, is part of it.

Quote:
It seems to me that the main difference is that the anti's mostly view government as a autonomous power one pleads to for blessings
Wrong. The view of government as an alien autonomous power, not We the People acting together for the common good (just like the rest of the Constitution, the part you don't hold sacred), is your own caricatured invention. You have to massage that fantasy in order to rationalize your imagined claim that you need to have guns for something other than self-gratification.

Quote:
while gun rights supporters have remembered that democracy was never intended to be a spectator sport- they organize and actually participate in political action to uphold their agenda.
That's what all the threatened violence if you don't get your own way is about? Really?

Quote:
*I swear the Left doesn't WANT any amendment of substance, as if they're fundamentally against using that provision of government.
You can tell yourself all the lies you want, but that won't make it true.

You're a sick, sick person and you need to turn in your weapons before we read about you in the news.
  #5949  
Old 10-02-2015, 01:21 PM
BrainGlutton is offline
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George Zimmerman: “P.O.S. Obama” and Oregon shooter share “mixed race” heritage and desire to kill Christians.
  #5950  
Old 10-02-2015, 01:24 PM
BrainGlutton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
Obama's address is little more than a risk-free platitude because he knows there isn't a snowball in Hell's chance it could actually be done.
So? What anti-gun message could he have said that would not be that and would impress you better? Even if he had called for repealing the 2nd Amendment -- is there a snowball in Hell's chance it could actually be done?
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