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Old 02-12-2020, 12:52 PM
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Would you whistle blow on Trump?


Suppose you were a career public servant who worked in the vicinity of the white house and came across some form of incriminating information about Trump. Its not for any crime that is worse those he has already been accused of, but it is new evidence. I'm think of something like evidence that he told some of his rich buddies to buy oil futures, two days before a pre-planned missile strike on Iran.

Letting the public know is the right thing to do, but you know that nothing will actually come of it. His supporters will find a way to dismiss it and it will blow over in a couple of weeks. On the other hand, you know that you will be retaliated against, definitely lose your job and likely put you and your family in danger.

Do you do it?
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:54 PM
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I might not “whistleblow” internally, but I might release documents/evidence directly to the public/media.

I don’t trust that doing anything through government channels would be effective at this point.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:12 PM
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I'm blowing until drool sprays out the sides of my mouth. Getting fired by Trump on a moral disagreement is a rare and prestigious badge I would wear proudly.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:14 PM
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Blow blow blow!!!!
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:26 PM
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Tweeeeeet tweet tweet...

I'm pulling a Daniel Ellsberg and making copies of everything I can get my hands on.

I'll gladly sit my civilly disobedient ass in prison if it takes down the whole criminal enterprise - I know I'll be vindicated eventually.

Tweeeeeet tweet tweet...
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:53 PM
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I'd be a hypoxic dude with a worn out whistle.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:59 PM
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I'll gladly sit my civilly disobedient ass in prison if it takes down the whole criminal enterprise
The OP did say this, though:

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Originally Posted by Buck Godot View Post
you know that nothing will actually come of it.........you know that you will be retaliated against, definitely lose your job and likely put you and your family in danger.
So I think his hypothetical makes it clear that this is futile whistleblowing - he is asking if you would blow even if futile and brings great harm to you. (But not being the OP, I'll let him speak for himself)
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:13 PM
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Probably, but it depends on how badly I 'needed' the job.

If it was a once in a lifetime job, I may not. But I'd still make as many video, audio and digital copies of everything I could in case I found a situation where whistelblowing would help.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 02-12-2020 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:32 PM
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Yep, damn sure would. A man that's afraid to lose his job for doing the right thing doesn't deserve to have that job ... and isn't much of a man. And besides, I've built a career out of tilting at windmills. I'm to old to start being a yes man now.

Last edited by Oakminster; 02-12-2020 at 02:33 PM.
  #10  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:45 PM
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So I think his hypothetical makes it clear that this is futile whistleblowing - he is asking if you would blow even if futile and brings great harm to you. (But not being the OP, I'll let him speak for himself)
If you're being true to your conscience, nothing you do is futile.
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:04 PM
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...I think his hypothetical makes it clear that this is futile whistleblowing - he is asking if you would blow even if futile and brings great harm to you. (But not being the OP, I'll let him speak for himself)
Fine. I'll gladly sit my ass in prison feeling certain in the belief that, even if it is years after I'm dead and gone, I'll be vindicated for being on the correct side of history.

Tweeeeeeeet.
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:06 PM
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So I think his hypothetical makes it clear that this is futile whistleblowing - he is asking if you would blow even if futile and brings great harm to you. (But not being the OP, I'll let him speak for himself)
Yes, exactly. New evidence of general corruption and graft isn't going to bring him down. Anyone left who isn't already convinced that Trump is horribly corrupt won't be convinced by new evidence.

I was mostly curious as to the extent to which Trumps intimidation tactics were likely to work against future whistle blowers. The responses so far suggest that it won't, which is encouraging, with some major caveats. First, the straight dope is a far from a representative sample and is heavily enriched among those who would sell their right arm (or at least someone's right arm) to damage Trump, second that its a lot easier to virtue signal when the danger is only hypothetical*.

To answer my own question I'm not sure. I see Trump as a great threat to our country but I'm not sure that I am not sure I would be willing to upend my entire life for something that is likely to be meaningless.


* note I 'm speaking only scholastically, and not making this accusation in reference to any particular post or poster.
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:15 PM
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First, the straight dope is a far from a representative sample and is heavily enriched among those who would sell their right arm (or at least someone's right arm) to damage Trump, second that its a lot easier to virtue signal when the danger is only hypothetical*.
My answer doesn't change no matter who the current POTUS happens to be. I call things as I see them--hopefully down the middle. Doesn't matter if it's Trump or some future POTUS I actually like.
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:21 PM
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I was mostly curious as to the extent to which Trumps intimidation tactics were likely to work against future whistle blowers.
Trump has fewer years in his presidential tenure than most folks have remaining in their careers. Getting 'fired' by him doesn't have to mean you're getting anything worse than a temporary vacation.
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First, the straight dope is a far from a representative sample and is heavily enriched among those who would sell their right arm (or at least someone's right arm) to damage Trump
Harming President Trump is not something I think most people want. Curbing abusive and corrupt practices in a more general sense is what motivates me. The liberal hero du jour should expect the same courtesy. Patriotism is not personal.
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second that its a lot easier to virtue signal when the danger is only hypothetical*.
Maybe similar to 2A bravado. There's only one way to tell for certain, and an anonymous internet review isn't it.
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I see Trump as a great threat to our country but I'm not sure that I am not sure I would be willing to upend my entire life for something that is likely to be meaningless.
And that's the test isn't it. Would you upend your life and those several tied to yours if it meant [maybe] stabilizing the lives of hundreds...billions of others.

Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 02-12-2020 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 02-12-2020, 04:46 PM
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If you're being true to your conscience, nothing you do is futile.
Yeah but 63 million people voted for this travesty. And the vast, vast majority of them have learned nothing from it and will vote for him again in 2020.

After a while, you have to question why does it become your responsibility to fix their screw up?

Also, none of it has mattered so far. All the crimes and corruption of Trump haven't resulted in any consequences (legal or political). All the whisteblowing and behind the scenes books, crimes, etc and none of it has mattered.

The issue runs deeper than Trump.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:01 PM
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Also, none of it has mattered so far. All the crimes and corruption of Trump haven't resulted in any consequences (legal or political). All the whisteblowing and behind the scenes books, crimes, etc and none of it has mattered.
This. I'm three years away from retirement, and seeing what happened to Andrew McCabe, I wouldn't say a thing.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:52 PM
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Reducing it to something credible, suppose instead it's my city councilman. What's the point? If he goes down, he will just be replaced by another power-abusing crony hack. The only people who seek power are those with an eye to abusing it.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:35 PM
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This. I'm three years away from retirement, and seeing what happened to Andrew McCabe, I wouldn't say a thing.
Not only that, but I never voted for this. Why is it my job to clean up other people's bad decision? Anyone with a brain knew Trump was corrupt and a criminal. They voted for him anyway. After he is out of office, those 63 million people will vote for the next deranged, authoritarian white nationalist who comes along.

Why is it my job to fuck my life up to reduce the damage that came from their bad decisions?

If a politician I did vote for was doing this (like Obama), I would come forward even if it hurt me personally because I'd feel like I was partly responsible for it happening. But as someone who never voted for Trump, and who knows 90%+ of his voters won't learn a damn thing, and who knows there will be no criminal, civil or political consequences of exposing his crimes, whats the point of hurting yourself and achieving nothing?

Keep records of everything and find a safe way to leak them when you're in a safer position. The people who allowed this happen won't learn anything anyway, and there won't be any negative consequences anyway.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 02-12-2020 at 10:38 PM.
  #19  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:40 PM
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With glee.

I wouldn't lie about it but I'd rat his stinky ass out at any justifiable provocation.
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:07 AM
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Reducing it to something credible, suppose instead it's my city councilman. What's the point? If he goes down, he will just be replaced by another power-abusing crony hack. The only people who seek power are those with an eye to abusing it.
That "It doesn't matter because they are all the same" crap is one of the reasons Trump got elected.
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:51 AM
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Absolutely. I leaked an internal memo of my former company.
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:23 AM
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I have done such things under the protection of God, so no harm came to me over it. However I'm not sure I would do it without such protection granted, Trump can make someone's life plenty miserable, plus it's God's purpose that prevails, so I'd rather move in that then on my own.
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:57 PM
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The pain that comes from doing the right thing in opposition to wicked, powerful people, can often be ameliorated down the line. There are still people in position to help the little guy who is known to be a person of character.

But I truly understand those that advocate the opposite. It's hard to be optimistic with the reality of the nation's worst people in positions of the most power right now. That's what assholes like the people in this administration count on.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:55 PM
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That "It doesn't matter because they are all the same" crap is one of the reasons Trump got elected.

Yes, one of the reasons. Another of the reasons was because the only other candidate was perceived as
'the same" in terms of honesty and integrity.
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:30 PM
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Itís literally a legal responsibility to report wrongdoing. If a person canít do that, they have no business working in government.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:58 AM
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Yes, one of the reasons. Another of the reasons was because the only other candidate was perceived as
'the same" in terms of honesty and integrity.
Only by those with absolutely no sense of perspective.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:05 AM
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Yes. Without hesitation. Whatever the fallout.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:38 AM
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Only by those with absolutely no sense of perspective.
I'm trying to give politically neutral responses to an OP that singles out a single office-holder who is presumed guilty.

What if you supported and campaigned for a candidate because of a certain issue, and when elected he did something indictable in the furtherance of that cause. Same balonney about civic duty?
  #29  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:18 AM
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Let's ask another question. If you supervised a person who blew the whistle on Trump, what would you do in the face of pressure from his administration?
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:56 AM
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I'm trying to give politically neutral responses to an OP that singles out a single office-holder who is presumed guilty.

What if you supported and campaigned for a candidate because of a certain issue, and when elected he did something indictable in the furtherance of that cause. Same balonney about civic duty?
That would depend on the Issue in question (Round up the brown people? Build a border wall? Occupy the moon? Mobilize a national work force to upgrade & repair infrastructure? Root out corrupt political networks in the government?) Can you put some details on your example to make it more clear?

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Let's ask another question. If you supervised a person who blew the whistle on Trump, what would you do in the face of pressure from his administration?
Hang my head in shame because that person came to me first and I didn't do anything?
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Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 02-14-2020 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:57 AM
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Dup
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Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 02-14-2020 at 09:57 AM.
  #32  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:35 PM
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Yep, damn sure would. A man that's afraid to lose his job for doing the right thing doesn't deserve to have that job ... and isn't much of a man. And besides, I've built a career out of tilting at windmills. I'm to old to start being a yes man now.
I sincerely admire you, but I don't think I would live up to your standard. Fortunately, I have never been in that situation.
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:31 AM
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That would depend on the Issue in question (Round up the brown people? Build a border wall? Occupy the moon? Mobilize a national work force to upgrade & repair infrastructure? Root out corrupt political networks in the government?) Can you put some details on your example to make it more clear?
OK, your city Councillor; that you campaigned for, pushes through an expansion of the community college, which you support, but his wife's cousin, a contractor, happens to be well-placed to bid on it, thanks to a leak.
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