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Old 01-11-2018, 10:54 PM
Paul in Qatar Paul in Qatar is offline
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Is President Trump suddenly Getting Worse?

I would really like a factual answer. It seems to me that the level of activity from President Trump has increased in the last couple of weeks, since that book came out.

He seems to be in the news more. He seems to be displaying more energy.

Or am I just noticing more?
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:01 PM
Ulfreida Ulfreida is online now
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worse in what way?
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:14 PM
Paul in Qatar Paul in Qatar is offline
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Maybe I ought not to have typed "worse" in the title. I am not trying to be very political here. I mean frantic or maybe frenzied. Moving and doing apparently for the sake of the activity itself. Is he doing more stuff of late? I am reading the book just now, and perhaps I am paying more attention.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:22 PM
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My opinion: probably not. He was a psychopathic child when elected, as now. I have read though, that when he feels even more attacked than he usually feels, he gets more frenetic and tries to destroy even more beauty and goodness than in a normal day. So you may be on to something.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:28 PM
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It comes in waves. He'll spend a few weeks doing really crazy shit, then a few weeks laying low (relative to his peaks, I mean).

One of the great misfortunes is that election day happened to coincide with one of his troughs.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 01-11-2018 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:47 PM
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Careful observers have noticed that he’s clutching himself more and more during public appearances and especially in meetings that he is expected to lead or participate significantly in. Like most Presidents, he is certainly feeling the weight of the office and responsibilities entailed in it. However, all Presidents in modern history have had close advisors they could trust to lean on for counsel and support. Trump has attacked and alienated even his closest advisors and supporters (aside from family, who are sufficiently aware of his proclivities to not trust him), and he seems to spend much of his daily schedule in “Executive Time” watching cable news shows.

Insofar as it is difficult to say what is going on in anyone’s mind, Trump seems to be flailing to assert some semblance of control or authority, which has led to even more impulsive and erratic behavior than “normal”. Normal for Trump, of course, being batshit conspiranoiac crazy for any other President. Given an excuse to resign without having to admit to weakness, he’ll take it in a heartbeat. I’ll give even odds he doesn’t make it to December 31, 2018, even absent of something significant coming out of thr Mueller investigation.

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Old 01-12-2018, 12:06 AM
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He is a shit-head from a shit-hole tower. He deserves any crap that will rains down on his head.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:41 AM
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Yes, he seems to be getting worse. The Wolf book has his inner circle, especially Bannon, saying he is a clueless idiot on the record. He tried to refute the book saying he is a "stable genius."

Yesterday he had a televised meeting with members of Congress to demonstrate that he is on top of things. During the meeting it becomes clear he doesn't understand what a "clean bill" is. Says he will sign anything both side to agree to, and contradicts himself several times. The meeting demonstrates he is a clueless idiot.

Today he started off the morning tweeting against a surveillance bill his administration is for. He claimed to the WSJ that he has a relationship with Kim Jong Il. And finally bashed "shithole countries."

He is careening from self-created disaster to disaster. If they took away his Twitter and kept him scripted via teleprompters he could stabilize things. But his staff have no control over him. This will not end well.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:45 AM
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Exactly.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:02 AM
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It may appear that he is more active lately, as he took a well deserved break from his four hour workdays over the holiday season.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:08 AM
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The meeting demonstrates he is a clueless idiot.
A clueless idiot who is also going senile. The only thing that Trump could ever do was put on a dog-and-pony show, and now he can't even do that, except when he is in a rally of his cult followers. His advancing senility is probably aggravated by the stress of knowing that his past financial dealings could soon be exposed.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:12 AM
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I would really like a factual answer. ...
Do you feel like you've found that here?
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:21 AM
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I would have hoped there was some sort of numerical metric of tweets-per-fortnight or miles-flown-per-speech but I appreciate the thoughts of others.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:43 AM
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Alzheimer's ?

Seriously, his behavior does seem to be becoming even more erratic.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:17 AM
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Yes, it's hard to come up with a reasonably objective metric for "getting worse" in this context.

But if he is, it's not surprising. He came from an environment where he was in control of everything, he could get anything he wanted, and anyone who crossed him could be fired, intimidated or bought off. Now he's subject to constant negative comments he can't stem, forced to deal with a Congress he can't fire or order around, surrounded by unreliable and incompetent cronies and family members he can't trust, and the focus of a very serious investigation which could bring him, his businesses and his reputation crashing down that he can't stop. Even a normally self-confident person would crack under those conditions and Trump was incredibly insecure to begin with.

Add to that his questionable physical health and I'd be surprised if he weren't "getting worse", even without any speculation about Alzheimers.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:07 AM
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With "shithole countries" he's reached a new low. Which he does weekly.

How low can he go?
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:12 AM
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While he was already famous and a big name before politics, he was not a household name. What Donald Trump did in business didn't affect everyday life. Also it's well known that for very wealthy people it is hard to make friends because...who can you trust? Trump has been in a position of privilege since his youth and his character certainly made it much more difficult to have relationships to give him something else in life. This is a man who besides his immediate family and a few associates was lonely. He was not liked within the wealthy business circles and he was a figure of fun long before politics.

But that all said life was easy for him. He could have chosen to kick back for the rest of his life, lounging off the back of his business empire and used his celebrity to make tv appearances and dictate narratives. He was already doing it with birtherism and constantly sniping at the Obama administration but now he is is inexplicably the commander-in-chief - he feels the heat and can't take it. He's made promises he knows he will never deliver.

He is now damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. The majority of Americans disapprove of him. If he builds the wall that will only get bigger. If he doesn't his own base will desert him.

Trump is famously thin-skinned and short-fused. Everyday of his presidency is one step closer to his last and he knows he is failing and despised.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:36 AM
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...I’ll give even odds he doesn’t make it to December 31, 2018, even absent of something significant coming out of thr Mueller investigation.
The only face-saving "out" would presumably be health concerns.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:46 AM
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Yes, he seems to be getting worse. The Wolf book has his inner circle, especially Bannon, saying he is a clueless idiot on the record. He tried to refute the book saying he is a "stable genius."

Yesterday he had a televised meeting with members of Congress to demonstrate that he is on top of things. During the meeting it becomes clear he doesn't understand what a "clean bill" is. Says he will sign anything both side to agree to, and contradicts himself several times. The meeting demonstrates he is a clueless idiot.

Today he started off the morning tweeting against a surveillance bill his administration is for. He claimed to the WSJ that he has a relationship with Kim Jong Il. And finally bashed "shithole countries."

He is careening from self-created disaster to disaster. If they took away his Twitter and kept him scripted via teleprompters he could stabilize things. But his staff have no control over him. This will not end well.
Yep, well said.

I think the book and the post-release chatter has touched a nerve. Above all else, Trump is a bullshit artist, and he has crafted an image of himself over the years as being a self-made billionaire business genius. Even when he loses, he wins. I mean he was smart enough to leverage his name and massive debt to keep his trademark and in turn leverage that into new stardom. And of course he was smart enough to use the tax code to write of untold losses. But his self-image is being smart. When the candid comments about his lack of intelligence came out -and more importantly, nobody credibly denying them - that touched a raw nerve with Donny. It's all anyone has talked about for a week, and even though it's not necessarily a scandal in and of itself, it's been such a devastating wave of information that it threatens to frame his presidency in a way that many of his scandals haven't.

One of the most jarring aspects of this book isn't just the sheer magnitude of damaging information, but also the fact that Donny now knows that all of his 'trusted' advisors are probably demeaning him behind his back. He can deny it all he wants, but he knows that people are snickering about the size of his hands, brains, and weenie behind his back, and he's reminded of it every time he has any interaction with any of them.

The danger here is that Donny starts cutting off even the people who are closest to him out of spite. The danger is that he stops talking even to his inner circle, and we're already seeing some glimpses that this might be happening. Consider how he perplexed his own staff and congressional allies with his tweets on FISA. Consider now his abrupt end to the DACA deal. Donny's clearly isolating himself and simultaneously taking out his frustrations on 'the swamp' by being doubly difficult to deal with.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:07 AM
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Today he started off the morning tweeting against a surveillance bill his administration is for. He claimed to the WSJ that he has a relationship with Kim Jong Il. And finally bashed "shithole countries."
Reading this thread, I thought "Shit hole countries" was an hyperbole. So I Googled it. Just SMDH.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:22 AM
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I dunno - I had just recently reached a different conclusion, that things had assumed a new low - a new normal. The book was a big buzz for a week, but what did it really do to move the needle for anyone? Couldn't make me think any less of him (and just makes the state of our country's governance even MORE depressing.) And isn't going to affect the opinions of the true faithful.

Yeah, his self-clutching is odd - and seems more prominent. But he has flat out told Congress that he will sign whatever they put in front of him. So they can ignore him as anything other than a cartoon figurehead - a king, if you will - and both parties can focus on the midterms and whatever they can cobble together in their self interests.

I remember people talking of Reagan as managing in a "hands off" style. Trump is taking that to an extreme. He is free to lurch to whatever public appearances he wishes, and otherwise, watch TV and golf as the country runs itself in a half assed manner. He'll take credit for any perceived successes, and deny responsibility for any perceived shortcomings.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:08 AM
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I would have hoped there was some sort of numerical metric of tweets-per-fortnight or miles-flown-per-speech but I appreciate the thoughts of others.
Here's an article from Mashable regarding the frequency of Tweets by President Very Stable Genius (to Nov. 2017):

http://mashable.com/2017/11/07/trump.../#VsDt8zZOiiqW

Quote:
In the first six months of his presidency, Trump sent out over 1,000 tweets (and passed no major legislation). That's about 5.7 tweets per day. That actually marked a 45 percent decrease from the amount he tweeted in the six months prior to the election. But over the last three months, he's been tweeting about 9.5 times per day.
A quick look at Twitter analytics shows him averaging about 7 Tweets/day over the past month, so leveling off a bit; OTOH there probably is a practical limit to the number of Tweets he can emit and still leave a few hours for that annoying Presidentin' stuff, and he may have reached it.

Last edited by El_Kabong; 01-12-2018 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:09 AM
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With "shithole countries" he's reached a new low. Which he does weekly.

How low can he go?
6' would be good.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:17 AM
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I dunno - I had just recently reached a different conclusion, that things had assumed a new low - a new normal. The book was a big buzz for a week, but what did it really do to move the needle for anyone? Couldn't make me think any less of him (and just makes the state of our country's governance even MORE depressing.) And isn't going to affect the opinions of the true faithful.

Yeah, his self-clutching is odd - and seems more prominent. But he has flat out told Congress that he will sign whatever they put in front of him. So they can ignore him as anything other than a cartoon figurehead - a king, if you will - and both parties can focus on the midterms and whatever they can cobble together in their self interests.

I remember people talking of Reagan as managing in a "hands off" style. Trump is taking that to an extreme. He is free to lurch to whatever public appearances he wishes, and otherwise, watch TV and golf as the country runs itself in a half assed manner. He'll take credit for any perceived successes, and deny responsibility for any perceived shortcomings.
Pretty solid analysis right here.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:20 AM
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his self-clutching is odd
Are you talking about him grabbing himself? (Where?) Is this an expression?. I never watch TV so I have not noticed such a thing.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:32 AM
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Are you talking about him grabbing himself? (Where?) Is this an expression?. I never watch TV so I have not noticed such a thing.
I think one of Trump's staple body languages is he's always punting his hand over his heart to get what he perceives as a salient point across. Which one might interpret as clutching his imaginary pearls.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:34 AM
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The self-body-hugging is a classic defensive gesture. He feels vulnerable and attacked. He's doing it a lot these days.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:47 AM
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As more members of his administration are thrown under the the bus, there may be less people willing to work in his administration only be be thrown under the bus themselves. So with less other-people to blame, more stuff sticks to Donny boy?
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:03 AM
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Yes, it's hard to come up with a reasonably objective metric for "getting worse" in this context.

But if he is, it's not surprising. He came from an environment where he was in control of everything, he could get anything he wanted, and anyone who crossed him could be fired, intimidated or bought off. Now he's subject to constant negative comments he can't stem, forced to deal with a Congress he can't fire or order around, surrounded by unreliable and incompetent cronies and family members he can't trust, and the focus of a very serious investigation which could bring him, his businesses and his reputation crashing down that he can't stop. Even a normally self-confident person would crack under those conditions and Trump was incredibly insecure to begin with.

Add to that his questionable physical health and I'd be surprised if he weren't "getting worse", even without any speculation about Alzheimers.
This, exactly.

I don't think he actually wanted to be President, and he certainly didn't understand what would be expected of him if he was, and the microscope he would be under.

He's always been surrounded by underlings who had to keep their mouths shut; now he's dealing with Senators and Representatives who don't have to kowtow to him, and he can't deal with it.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:10 AM
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Are you talking about him grabbing himself?
It seems as though there have been increased film bites of him in meetings, apparently aimed at suggesting he is somehow involved. "Making deals", as it were. A great deal of the time he has his arms crossed in front of his chest - hugging himself. I'm no master of body language (and disfavor over-reliance on it in many situations), but arms crossed is generally suggestive of insecurity, defensiveness - definitely nothing strong and in control. Makes him look like the petulant child many of us think he is.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:51 AM
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My opinion: probably not. He was a psychopathic child when elected, as now.
You are in no way qualified to make such a diagnosis.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:54 AM
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You are in no way qualified to make such a diagnosis.
You are in no way qualified to assess other people's qualifications to make diagnoses.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:55 AM
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You are in no way qualified to make such a diagnosis.
Not formally perhaps, but there's a general consensus that the man is an incompetent and dangerous asshole.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:10 AM
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You are in no way qualified to assess other people's qualifications to make diagnoses.
Wrong. Even if s/he were a professional, which I highly doubt, s/he would know that it's unethical to make a diagnosis of someone one hasn't examined.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:19 AM
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Wrong. Even if s/he were a professional, which I highly doubt, s/he would know that it's unethical to make a diagnosis of someone one hasn't examined.
Except in extreme cases where they feel the person in question may be a danger to the public.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:19 AM
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Wrong. Even if s/he were a professional, which I highly doubt, s/he would know that it's unethical to make a diagnosis of someone one hasn't examined.
Do you really think they were attempting to offer a medical diagnosis with that comment? They also referred to him as a child both now and at the time he was elected. Did you think they were literally saying he was under the age of 13 in November 2016? Or that he is currently an actual child?
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:48 AM
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Wrong. Even if s/he were a professional, which I highly doubt, s/he would know that it's unethical to make a diagnosis of someone one hasn't examined.
In terms of ethics, which do you think is a more serious violation:

1. A doctor violating a standard of practice not to diagnose someone who is not their patient.
2. Trump's multiple and ongoing ethics problems, per both Democratic and Republican former White House ethics advisers?

I don't mean that one ethics lapse excuses another, but I think it is important to establish the severity of an ethics breach in a more holistic context, such as comparing it to other breaches.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:58 AM
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Wrong. Even if s/he were a professional, which I highly doubt, s/he would know that it's unethical to make a diagnosis of someone one hasn't examined.
You should definitely file a formal complaint with the SDMB Opinion Review Board and offer to testify at the hearing.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:14 PM
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You are in no way qualified to make such a diagnosis.
Call me crazy, but I’m pretty sure that was opinion and not a formal medical diagnosis. I know, crazy!
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:15 PM
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Are you talking about him grabbing himself? (Where?) Is this an expression?. I never watch TV so I have not noticed such a thing.
He crosses his arms and kind of hugs himself. It seems more common now. A lot of impressions of Nixon had similar behavior, but I don't know if he really did that, or it just became part of a Nixon schtick.

The book seems to have triggered Trump. He has these moments, but when he comes back down, it seems to be a little worse, like he never resets completely. It's most pronounced when he's challenged by a woman, especially a woman of color.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:26 PM
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He is a shit-head from a shit-hole tower. He deserves any crap that will rains down on his head.
If the Trump empire falls, he loses all his assets due to RICO and ends up in prison, that'd be just desserts for his collusion with Russia and efforts to prey on people's bigotry and sexism.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:32 PM
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You are in no way qualified to make such a diagnosis.
it was clearly labelled opinion in my opinion, a diagnosis of morbid obesity would be accurate. but it's my opinion.
based on how fat he always looks.

I'm glad it was explained that "self clutching" meant arms crossed. I avoid watching (and listening) to him so I was wondering what I was missing.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:37 PM
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If the Trump empire falls, he loses all his assets due to RICO and ends up in prison
...which is why he's desperate to destroy the institutions that threaten his existence. He's fighting for his life now and the life of his brand (and maybe fighting for Ivanka). He's a cornered animal now.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:59 PM
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Call me crazy, but I’m pretty sure that was opinion and not a formal medical diagnosis. I know, crazy!
You are in no way qualified to diagnose yourself as crazy.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:04 PM
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Wrong. Even if s/he were a professional, which I highly doubt, s/he would know that it's unethical to make a diagnosis of someone one hasn't examined.
So you're not making a professional assessment of her qualifications; you're just offering an informal layman's opinion on the topic that was not meant to taken in any way as an expert judgment? Gee, I wonder why Ulfrieda didn't do that?
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:12 PM
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Is President Trump suddenly Getting Worse?

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I would really like a factual answer.
Then why did you post it here? There is no possibility of a factual answer to any question about Trump on the SDMB.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:14 PM
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There was a brief reduction in activity during the holidays.

The holidays ended.
  #48  
Old 01-12-2018, 01:20 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
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He is getting worse. He's not capable of doing this job, it requires too much attention and effort to details that he isn't interested in, he's running out of distracting bullshit that can be massaged into relevant discussion by his agents of discord. He's left to nasty tweeting and showing the signs of Captain Queeg syndrome by attacking Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama in what would be his only political victory. He is under pressure and failing, his attempts to redefine the argument with chaotic potshots, twists, and turns is no longer working because he has no actual direction, no actual goal.

There's no need to consider the 25th amendment here, impeachment is the solution, he's given sufficient grounds for it already, but we'll have to wait and see if the Republican cowards and traitors in congress will finally take action based on the result of the Mueller investigation, or to see if the Democrat party doesn't shoot itself in the foot it keeps in it's mouth and manages to take over congress, and then hope they have the courage of real principles instead of the safer special interests that wag their tails.
  #49  
Old 01-12-2018, 01:25 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Then why did you post it here? There is no possibility of a factual answer to any question about Trump on the SDMB.
I disagree. There's of course no factual answer to questions like, is Trump making America great again. But as to whether Trump is unstable? It's just a fact that he is.

As to whether he is becoming more unstable, that's the sort of question that can either be answered with "Trump is the SUXXXOR" or possibly with some more objective metric. A metric that might be useful and factual could be, for example, polls over time on Amercians' confidence in the President's mental faculties.
  #50  
Old 01-12-2018, 01:33 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Kabong View Post
You are in no way qualified to diagnose yourself as crazy.
You'd have to be crazy to diagnose yourself as being crazy.
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