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  #901  
Old 09-13-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
I've already had that conversation with Huey. Now I'm having it with you.
What a cop out.

Your bias, while always on display, is really obvious now. Try to be better!
  #902  
Old 09-13-2018, 05:38 PM
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What a cop out.

Your bias, while always on display, is really obvious now. Try to be better!
I've never denied having bias, and I always try to be better. Hopefully, some day, you will too.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 09-13-2018 at 05:39 PM.
  #903  
Old 09-13-2018, 05:41 PM
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I've never denied having bias, and I always try to be better. Hopefully, some day, you will too.
If by "better" you mean not responding to ridiculous content with some truth, harsh and inconvenient as it may be, you'll be waiting. Now with regards to your conversation with Huey, it wasn't productive now was it?
  #904  
Old 09-13-2018, 05:44 PM
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If by "better" you mean not responding to ridiculous content with some truth, harsh and inconvenient as it may be, you'll be waiting. Now with regards to your conversation with Huey, it wasn't productive now was it?
That wasn't truth. Implying that blacks are to blame for slavery, and whites are responsible for its abolition, is hateful nonsense.
  #905  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:00 PM
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This is all very interesting and I don’t doubt the scientific validity of what you describe. It makes sense.

There’s only one thing I dispute about it, but it’s a doozy. I don’t believe autism is a “curse”. If there were some sort of pill or other treatment that was guaranteed to “cure autism” (I guess that would mean making someone neurotypical), I would not authorize it for my kids, although I’d let them make their own choice upon attaining majority. This is not true of how I’d feel about other disabilities: I’m fairly sure I’d be eager to give a blind child vision or enable a wheelchair-bound child to walk. But my wife and I agree on this, as does every parent of a child with autism I have met (which is quite a few). Whereas I doubt this is a common feeling among parents of kids who are blind or in a wheelchair.

ETA: This idea that only impact, rather than intention, matters is one that was also discussed on the latest Sam Harris Waking Up podcast. It’s a terrible and very dangerous idea, as it seems to be increasingly influential.
You are a fucking, egomaniacal idiot. You are a blot upon humanity. You are so full of shit that I don't know how you open your mouth to talk. You've talked to some other parents and you think you've got it cornered?

If there were a miracle cure, I would have given it to my son the absolute instant it was feasible and so would every single parent with any sense of human decency. Yes, there are millions of people living with autism and doing well, but any parent or guardian who would not choose to heal a child of the absolute obstacles to relationships, jobs, independence, social networks that autism brings not to mention learning disabilities, physical disabilities and all of the other types of things that are associated on the spectrum is not fit to raise a child.

You would (I assume) give your children medicine for a headache, or allergies, but when they're an infant, or even now, you're going to say "fuck it - let them struggle through until they're 18 and then figure out"?

You are scum and not fit to be in polite society. Go sit with anti-vaxxers.
  #906  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:12 PM
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You are a fucking, egomaniacal idiot. You are a blot upon humanity. You are so full of shit that I don't know how you open your mouth to talk. You've talked to some other parents and you think you've got it cornered?

If there were a miracle cure, I would have given it to my son the absolute instant it was feasible and so would every single parent with any sense of human decency. Yes, there are millions of people living with autism and doing well, but any parent or guardian who would not choose to heal a child of the absolute obstacles to relationships, jobs, independence, social networks that autism brings not to mention learning disabilities, physical disabilities and all of the other types of things that are associated on the spectrum is not fit to raise a child.

You would (I assume) give your children medicine for a headache, or allergies, but when they're an infant, or even now, you're going to say "fuck it - let them struggle through until they're 18 and then figure out"?

You are scum and not fit to be in polite society. Go sit with anti-vaxxers.
Beautiful.
  #907  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:18 PM
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Are autistic children capable of the same parent-bonding early in life that (many) believe is so important to later-in-life development and positive, healthy relationships in adulthood? I ask you this as you have an autistic child. Im guessing your answer will be some variety of "yes", based on the above post. What makes a condition a "disability" rather than just a characteristic?
Ambi - the answer is "maybe". Some autistic children bond well and can share it. Some bond well and are unable to communicate it. Some do not bond.

The "disability" question is an interesting one. For my purposes, as I also have an autistic child, I'll consider it on two levels: does autism impede his ability to learn the skills he needs to be an independent adult; when he is an adult, is he able to maintain himself as an independent adult within the community, or to function in society.

While there are millions of people who live with autism, and many who accept it as who they are, I would still consider it a disability for most. The word "disability" is loaded. It sounds as if someone is less of a person, or at least that's what people read into it. Let's agree not to read it that way. Call it an added difficulty factor, if I can be a nerd about it. Autistic children will have varying degrees of additional difficultly learning the skills they need to be successful adults. Autistic adults, depending on their place on the spectrum, will also have added degrees of difficulty in dealing with jobs, social situations, self care, and the other tasks of functioning in society.
  #908  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:23 PM
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Lol. Oh the irony! Let me ask you this who actually worked to end global slavery? Who sold Africans to begin with? I’d be confused as well if some of my ancestors sold some of my other ancestors.
Fuck off, you malodorous suppurating arsewen.
  #909  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:26 PM
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Fuck off, you malodorous suppurating arsewen.
I had to google that and I'm still mystified.
  #910  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:30 PM
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I'm not SlackerInc, but I would imagine it depends on where they are on the spectrum.
Wouldn't that simply impact the degree to which they are impeded from this bonding, rather than any inherent ability to bond itself?
  #911  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:31 PM
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I had to google that and I'm still mystified.
A wen on an arse.
  #912  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:32 PM
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A wen on an arse.
Thank you. Wonderful!
  #913  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:35 PM
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Fuck off, you malodorous suppurating arsewen.
I got 2/3 of those terms but that term "arsewen", I got nothing. But as Meatloaf says, 2/3 aint bad.

ETA: an stinky pus-leaking ass cyst! Nice!

Last edited by Ambivalid; 09-13-2018 at 06:37 PM.
  #914  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:45 PM
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You are a fucking, egomaniacal idiot. You are a blot upon humanity. You are so full of shit that I don't know how you open your mouth to talk. You've talked to some other parents and you think you've got it cornered?

If there were a miracle cure, I would have given it to my son the absolute instant it was feasible and so would every single parent with any sense of human decency. Yes, there are millions of people living with autism and doing well, but any parent or guardian who would not choose to heal a child of the absolute obstacles to relationships, jobs, independence, social networks that autism brings not to mention learning disabilities, physical disabilities and all of the other types of things that are associated on the spectrum is not fit to raise a child.

You would (I assume) give your children medicine for a headache, or allergies, but when they're an infant, or even now, you're going to say "fuck it - let them struggle through until they're 18 and then figure out"?

You are scum and not fit to be in polite society. Go sit with anti-vaxxers.


To be fair, there is a small but vocal community of autistics who do not believe that autism is a disorder, and find the idea of a cure very offensive. But they're generally in the minority, much like the whole Deaf Community.

And at the other end of the spectrum (no pun intended), you have Autism Speaks, who generally portrays autism as the WORST THING EVER, push a lot of woo and abusive treatments and people who have written books like this.

And don't even get me started on the scourge that is the anti-vax movement. They should all be given tetanus and left untreated.



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Fuck off, you malodorous suppurating arsewen.
I know I'm not your favorite poster, but I gotta tip my hat to you, sir.
  #915  
Old 09-13-2018, 07:33 PM
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Fuck off, you malodorous suppurating arsewen.
Potty mouth got a new thesaurus? Great.

It’s telling you are triggered by a tame rebuke to Huey’s racist screed but not Huey’s post. Is history inconvenient with your professional victimhood?
  #916  
Old 09-13-2018, 08:23 PM
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To be fair, there is a small but vocal community of autistics who do not believe that autism is a disorder, and find the idea of a cure very offensive. But they're generally in the minority, much like the whole Deaf Community.

And at the other end of the spectrum (no pun intended), you have Autism Speaks, who generally portrays autism as the WORST THING EVER, push a lot of woo and abusive treatments and people who have written books like this.
They have not been in the minority IME. But I don’t have any study or poll result to say for sure. Do you?

I agree that Autism Speaks is terrible. And they are the ones hot for a “cure”.

BTW, the generally preferred terminology is “people with autism”, not “autistics”.

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Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
Are autistic children capable of the same parent-bonding early in life that (many) believe is so important to later-in-life development and positive, healthy relationships in adulthood? I ask you this as you have an autistic child. Im guessing your answer will be some variety of "yes", based on the above post. What makes a condition a "disability" rather than just a characteristic?
Your last question is a good one, and I don’t have a ready answer. As for your first question on bonding, IME the answer is “yes”: I have four children altogether, and the snuggliest of all is one of the two with autism (he has come to snuggle with me in my chair several times in the past couple hours). But we practiced attachment parenting with all our kids (the original version promoted by Dr. Sears, not the insane version that has metastasized online), which presumably made a difference. People with autism are very much into continuing patterns they are used to and resistant to change. So if in infancy you made them “cry it out” in a crib, and bottlefed them in a plastic carrier, rather than keeping them close to you in a sling, breastfeeding, etc., it wouldn’t surprise me if they developed an aversion to being held or touched since it’s not what they are used to.

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I'm not SlackerInc, but I would imagine it depends on where they are on the spectrum.
It seems a reasonable hypothesis, but it’s not my experience. My son who is the snuggliest of my four children is further along the autism spectrum than my daughter. He is not considered “high functioning” (although he has surprised the school with his ability to learn, if he feels like it) and has a one-on-one para all day long. My daughter spends most of her time in the regular classroom and does not need a para most of the time.

I can understand how someone could look at my son at least and have a hard time understanding why I wouldn’t want to “cure” him, while maybe seeing it my way more with my daughter. But because this is a fundamental aspect of his brain and thus his personality (I am a materialist monist), to me “curing” him would essentially mean killing him and replacing him with a neurotypical boy. He’s not in pain, he’s physically very strong and fit, and loves to run and play. I love him as he is, and I don’t want to replace him with a different son.

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This has been bothering, and every time I see the post quoted, it bothers me more.
Where do you live? That describes maybe three people I know, and two of them are related. You're starting to humiliate yourself.
That really depends on your location. Here in northern Minnesota, tall blond-haired (or red-haired), blue-eyed people with Scandinavian or at least German surnames are ubiquitous. But when we visited NYC this summer, I was reminded (having lived there twenty years ago) that the spectrum of what’s considered “white” there is quite different. I walked around on the crowded ferry and there was only one little group of people who were as “white” as my family—and when I got close enough to hear them speak, they turned out to be German tourists! LOL

In Missouri where I used to live, it was somewhere in between. But even when I lived in Seattle, my neighbor referred to my then-girlfriend, later first wife (whose father is an Italian-American and her mother an Irish-American from Jersey) as a “foreign girl” because she has thick black eyebrows and curly black hair. Another time we were driving through eastern Washington and stopped at a rest area. As she approached the ladies’ room, a woman exiting told her there was a mess she needed to clean up right away—apparently because she looked Hispanic?!? (Things like that make me understand the impulse among POC to hate on white people, but it’s still an erroneous impulse.) In Jersey or NYC, she would have been “median white girl”.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 09-13-2018 at 08:25 PM.
  #917  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:05 PM
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... But when we visited NYC this summer, I was reminded (having lived there twenty years ago) that the spectrum of what’s considered “white” there is quite different. ...
Ah. I see. It's not sub cultural differences, it really is all about the color of one's skin or at least one's hair. Huh. I always thought that was a metaphor.

You live with some ugly pieces of work, don't you?
  #918  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:03 PM
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If there were a miracle cure, I would have given it to my son the absolute instant it was feasible and so would every single parent with any sense of human decency. Yes, there are millions of people living with autism and doing well, but any parent or guardian who would not choose to heal a child of the absolute obstacles to relationships, jobs, independence, social networks that autism brings not to mention learning disabilities, physical disabilities and all of the other types of things that are associated on the spectrum is not fit to raise a child.

You would (I assume) give your children medicine for a headache, or allergies, but when they're an infant, or even now, you're going to say "fuck it - let them struggle through until they're 18 and then figure out"?
What a cure would affect is a complicated question. I don't agree with the analogy to an ailment. We're dealing with sets of characteristics of many different types and levels of severity.

Some on the spectrum are quite gifted in certain areas. They may fear a cure taking that away. There is a fundamental issue of identity and what autism means, how holistically it encompasses one's identity. Unlike some, I can't argue against it being responsible to attempt to exhaust avenues to help someone who is limited enough or has co-morbids requiring a lot of treatment. Beyond that, if you would get out more (perhaps visit their online communities), you'd realize your commentary is insensitive. It tears at the heart of some of their identities. It reinforces ideas of the supremacy of social networking the merit of which is based on games some of them would never wish to play. And realistically there may come a day when your son disagrees with you.
  #919  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:16 PM
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And realistically there may come a day when your son disagrees with you.
Doesn't this cut both ways though?
  #920  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:44 PM
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What a cure would affect is a complicated question. I don't agree with the analogy to an ailment. We're dealing with sets of characteristics of many different types and levels of severity.

Some on the spectrum are quite gifted in certain areas. They may fear a cure taking that away. There is a fundamental issue of identity and what autism means, how holistically it encompasses one's identity. Unlike some, I can't argue against it being responsible to attempt to exhaust avenues to help someone who is limited enough or has co-morbids requiring a lot of treatment. Beyond that, if you would get out more (perhaps visit their online communities), you'd realize your commentary is insensitive. It tears at the heart of some of their identities. It reinforces ideas of the supremacy of social networking the merit of which is based on games some of them would never wish to play. And realistically there may come a day when your son disagrees with you.
1) We're talking about a "magic" cure. It covers all co-morbidities and associated disorders. All types, all severities.
2) Autism is a spectrum of complicated and incompletely understood disabilities that impact people in ways from the nearly imperceptible to the completely subsuming and infantilizing.
3) On that spectrum, of course there are people that less disabled.
4) Among all individuals, disabled or not, many people are always or grow to be happy with who they are. You put it very well.

This does not the change the hypothetical. If a magic cure appeared and was offered to me, would I give it to my autistic son/child? Yes, I would. I think a responsible parent should "magically" cure autism in their minor children if they could. My job as a parent is to help my child get ready to be a successful adult. Autism makes that road so much harder.

I apologize if it sounded as though I was invalidating anyone who is happy being non-NT. That was not my intention. It was my intention to call bullshit on the hypothetical situation where all parents of autistic children would refuse the magic treatment. That's a cruel and ridiculous notion.

I will tell you that my son is extremely high functioning with a genius level IQ. As his parent, I still worry that he will never be able to live alone, never be in a committed relationship with a romantic partner, never end up with close friends. All I can do is work every day with his father, and his school, and his care team, and try. He has so much potential, and there are so many barriers.

I am glad that there are autistic individuals who are proud to be autistic, but they have no right to insist that the rest of the population take their path, if they even can. Putting that option out there is as insensitive as you just said I was. My son may never be in position to be happy to be autistic. I'm hoping that he will be happy to be himself. I will never, ever say autism was a blessing or that I would not change it.
  #921  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:56 PM
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ETA: The option to be proudly autistic isn't cruel. Insisting that it's the proper way to be autistic is.
  #922  
Old 09-13-2018, 11:13 PM
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If you’re quite done flogging that straw man, let’s review what I actually said:

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I don’t believe autism is a “curse”. If there were some sort of pill or other treatment that was guaranteed to “cure autism” (I guess that would mean making someone neurotypical), I would not authorize it for my kids, although I’d let them make their own choice upon attaining majority. This is not true of how I’d feel about other disabilities: I’m fairly sure I’d be eager to give a blind child vision or enable a wheelchair-bound child to walk. But my wife and I agree on this, as does every parent of a child with autism I have met (which is quite a few). Whereas I doubt this is a common feeling among parents of kids who are blind or in a wheelchair.


The only thing I regret saying there is “let them”. When they attain majority, it would not be up to me.

But you felt the above was so heinous that I deserved to be excoriated for it. Then you realized you had stepped in it and are trying to rewrite the conversation even though it is upthread for all to see.

Unlike you, and the poster who applauded your screed, I recognize your right to have your own feelings on the subject. I haven’t personally met a parent like you, but the existence of Autism Speaks was always evidence they exist.

In a spirit off generosity you didn’t afford me, I offer the same advice I would give someone who confessed they wish they had never had kids, or not so young at least: do not let your son have any slight inkling how you feel. No magic “cure” is forthcoming, and he is virtually guaranteed to interpret your feelings as regret that you had him instead of a neurotypical son.
  #923  
Old 09-13-2018, 11:18 PM
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Ah. I see. It's not sub cultural differences, it really is all about the color of one's skin or at least one's hair. Huh. I always thought that was a metaphor.

You live with some ugly pieces of work, don't you?
What is this? What did you think was a metaphor? Who are you calling ugly pieces of work?
  #924  
Old 09-13-2018, 11:25 PM
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I love my child. I want him to have the best life possible. Autism doesn't offer him that. You're the idiot that introduced this nonsense. I responded to your hypothetical. Any softening of tone you detected was solely for the benefit of Covfefe, whom I respect.

If you feel that your child's life is a bed of roses and autism has so little impact on it that you would not treat it, I don't know what to say to you. You are woefully deluded about the impact of autism on the life of your child, and your ignorance is dangerous. You are firmly in the anti-vaxxers category as far as I'm concerned.
  #925  
Old 09-13-2018, 11:56 PM
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ETA: The option to be proudly autistic isn't cruel. Insisting that it's the proper way to be autistic is.
This sounds a lot like the debate surrounding/inside the Deaf Community. As in it's wrong to want to correct your deafness as it is an inherent part of who you are (according to the Deaf Community) and parents who take steps to lessen or eliminate their child's deafness are doing their child a grave disservice. I personally find this perspective honestly a bit appalling. The obstacles and handicaps that deafness poses to a person trying to live and thrive in the world are stark and numerous. I don't understand how that can be characterized as anything but a disability. I am hesitant to criticize the decision of any particular parent re the choices they make for their children, especially as I have none myself. But it seems counterintuitive to the concept of doing the things for your child that best ensure a successful, happy life to decide not to mitigate the factors that work against those aspirations.
  #926  
Old 09-14-2018, 12:28 AM
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This sounds a lot like the debate surrounding/inside the Deaf Community. As in it's wrong to want to correct your deafness as it is an inherent part of who you are (according to the Deaf Community) and parents who take steps to lessen or eliminate their child's deafness are doing their child a grave disservice. I personally find this perspective honestly a bit appalling. The obstacles and handicaps that deafness poses to a person trying to live and thrive in the world are stark and numerous. I don't understand how that can be characterized as anything but a disability. I am hesitant to criticize the decision of any particular parent re the choices they make for their children, especially as I have none myself. But it seems counterintuitive to the concept of doing the things for your child that best ensure a successful, happy life to decide not to mitigate the factors that work against those aspirations.
Yes, I think the debate is very similar, and I think you and I share similar views.
  #927  
Old 09-14-2018, 01:54 AM
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Potty mouth
Better than having an arsehole for a mouth. What a waste of your real daddy's jism you turned out to be, eh?
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got a new thesaurus?
No, that was off the top of my head. Don't expect sentient pondscum like yourself to understand that. Hell, I''m pretty sure you had to have help on how to spell thesaurus.
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It’s telling you are triggered
It's so cute that racist shitstains like yourself think hearing the language of progressive discourse crudely aped by bipedal slime mould is somehow an effective taunt.

Oh, wait, not cute, what's the other thing? Pathetic, that's it.
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by a tame rebuke
Fuck off back to your cankerous hole with that "tame rebuke" shit, your malodorous fustilarian. "tame rebuke", my brown arse. Racist claptrap, more like.
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to Huey’s racist screed but not Huey’s post.
I'll do you a deal. I'll start rebuking Huey the day after you rebuke all the Dope racists you constantly leap to the defence of, and not a moment sooner.
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Is history inconvenient
Nah, your attempt to shift all of the blame onto Africans and let colonialists off the hook is too pathetically transparent to be inconvenient to anyone with an actual historic perpective on the slave trade, rather than a tiny head crammed full of White Nationalist talking points.

And the attempt to claim the mantle of White Saviour for the entire race just because some white people weren't evil arseholes? Just sad, man. Just sad.
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your professional victimhood?
...said the amateur racist.

Last edited by MrDibble; 09-14-2018 at 01:57 AM.
  #928  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:05 AM
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Better than having an arsehole for a mouth. What a waste of your real daddy's jism you turned out to be, eh?
No, that was off the top of my head. Don't expect sentient pondscum like yourself to understand that. Hell, I''m pretty sure you had to have help on how to spell thesaurus.
It's so cute that racist shitstains like yourself think hearing the language of progressive discourse crudely aped by bipedal slime mould is somehow an effective taunt.

Oh, wait, not cute, what's the other thing? Pathetic, that's it.
Fuck off back to your cankerous hole with that "tame rebuke" shit, your malodorous fustilarian. "tame rebuke", my brown arse. Racist claptrap, more like.
I'll do you a deal. I'll start rebuking Huey the day after you rebuke all the Dope racists you constantly leap to the defence of, and not a moment sooner.
Nah, your attempt to shift all of the blame onto Africans and let colonialists off the hook is too pathetically transparent to be inconvenient to anyone with an actual historic perpective on the slave trade, rather than a tiny head crammed full of White Nationalist talking points.

And the attempt to claim the mantle of White Saviour for the entire race just because some white people weren't evil arseholes? Just sad, man. Just sad.

...said the amateur racist.
Not all the blame. Surely you have the IQ to comprehend what you read. You should try it.

Oh. All Dope racists you are hereby rebuked! That includes you Dibble and Huey.

Last edited by octopus; 09-14-2018 at 02:07 AM.
  #929  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:13 AM
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Not all the blame.
Sure, buddy. No high-pitched whistling noises here.
Quote:
Surely you have the IQ to comprehend what you read.
IQ is racist bullshit. Figures you'd use it in a pathetic attempt of an insult.
Quote:
You should try it.
You should try not being a racist douche.
Quote:

Oh. All Dope racists you are hear by rebuked!
Ooh, look at Mr High IQ, "hear by"
Quote:
That includes you Dibble and Huey.
When have you ever leapt to the defence of Huey or I? Talk about no reading comprehension.
  #930  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:24 AM
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Man, that's just like the White Man, always editing his posts after a brother's already had fun at his expense. "Rewriting history", we call it back at Professional Social Justice Warrior Memorial Tower of Victimhood.

Steve Martin's adoptive family was right. No, not about the Lord loving a working man. The other thing.

Last edited by MrDibble; 09-14-2018 at 02:28 AM.
  #931  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:24 AM
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Sure, buddy. No high-pitched whistling noises here.
IQ is racist bullshit. Figures you'd use it in a pathetic attempt of an insult.

You should try not being a racist douche.

Ooh, look at Mr High IQ, "hear by"
When have you ever leapt to the defence of Huey or I? Talk about no reading comprehension.
IQ is racist? How about water? Or the moon? At some point you can’t be worried about the scary racist bogeyman hiding behind every tree or bush.

And if you chose to use your ability to read in order to understand posts instead of scouring your new thesaurus for obscure words you’d note I gave you a compliment! You are clearly smart you just choose to misinterpret what you read. And I’d defend either of you if you weren’t so myopic and fixated on being a victim.

Anyways why do you want to absolve other groups for their substantial role in slavery? Without Africans catching other Africans would slavery have been as widespread? Many groups were complicit. Matter of fact, in some parts of the world you can still buy a slave. Pretty disgusting isn’t it? But instead of worrying about that let’s focus on cartoons and what a comedian can say.
  #932  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:26 AM
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Man, that's just like the White Man, always editing his posts after a brother's had fun at his expense. "Rewriting history", we call it back at Professional Social Justice Warrior Tower.
Lol, you still caught the error in time!
  #933  
Old 09-14-2018, 03:00 AM
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IQ is racist? How about water? Or the moon?
Only a fool would confuse intelligence, which is a real thing like the moon and water, with IQ, which is a biased, made-up thing of no worth ( like the concept of biological race).
Quote:
At some point you can’t be worried about the scary racist bogeyman hiding behind every tree or bush.
Oh, it's not us anti-racists who're shit-their-pants scared.

Hey, octopus, do you smell something? I think it's coming from your trousers...
Quote:
scouring your new thesaurus for obscure words
Yeah, it doesn't actually become true just by repetition.

Anyway, I thought your kind love it when we brown folk are articulate.
Quote:
you’d note I gave you a compliment!
Don't do me any favours, you piece of ambulatory shit pressed out of a man-shaped mould.
Quote:
And I’d defend either of you if you weren’t so myopic and fixated on being a victim.
True story, brah!
Quote:
But instead of worrying about that let’s focus on cartoons and what a comedian can say.
Oh, yeah, I'm sure you are very active in working to stop modern slavery.

And your pointy White head may only be able to deal with one problem at a time - I'm sure you make monodrones look like consummate multitaskers - but don't project that tragic lack of ability on me.

Last edited by MrDibble; 09-14-2018 at 03:01 AM.
  #934  
Old 09-14-2018, 06:18 AM
j666 j666 is offline
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What is this? What did you think was a metaphor? Who are you calling ugly pieces of work?
I really thought "the color of one's skin" was a metaphor in discussions of racism, for the most part. Your post indicates that your subculture, with its spectrum of what's considered white, appears to evaluate people on pigmentation literally, AND to believe that it gets to decide other's racial identity. If one accepts the concept of race as distinct from a personal social identification, one should accept standard distinctions, and not just define everyone who isn't blond, blue eyed, and aquiline of nose as non-white.

Fortunately, few people care personally about how one socially inbred group classifies them along a spectrum of whiteness, but you fuckers do keep voting.

I am calling the people with whom you imply you associate ugly pieces of work.

Everytime I think Huey has just gone over the top, someone posts and justifies his vent.

All that being said, I believe that "malodorous fustilarian" is tautological.
  #935  
Old 09-14-2018, 08:41 AM
SlackerInc SlackerInc is offline
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Your post indicates that your subculture, with its spectrum of what's considered white, appears to evaluate people on pigmentation literally, AND to believe that it gets to decide other's racial identity. If one accepts the concept of race as distinct from a personal social identification, one should accept standard distinctions, and not just define everyone who isn't blond, blue eyed, and aquiline of nose as non-white.

You sure read a lot into what I said, jesus. I was only responding, in a friendly and matter-of-fact way, to someone saying hardly any white people actually have the features Huey described. I was simply observing that where I live, those features are ubiquitous—but that I recognize that in other places, including the most populated city in the U.S., that is not the case. I didn’t put any value judgement on any of it, except for this, which you apparently completely missed somehow:


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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
Things like that make me understand the impulse among POC to hate on white people

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Originally Posted by j666 View Post
Fortunately, few people care personally about how one socially inbred group classifies them along a spectrum of whiteness, but you fuckers do keep voting.

I am calling the people with whom you imply you associate ugly pieces of work.

What. The. Actual. Fuck.
Minnesotans, you mean? Yes, we’re a blonde/red, blue-eyed bunch. We’re also the only state that hasn’t voted for a Republican for president in my lifetime. My wife and I are lifelong Democrats (we call them DFLers here), as is the entire nuclear family I grew up in, along with my maternal grandfather and grandmother. So what the hell are you on about? Jesus, I mean: I know this is the Pit, but that doesn’t mean you have to just go off randomly with no rhyme or reason behind it.


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Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
This sounds a lot like the debate surrounding/inside the Deaf Community. As in it's wrong to want to correct your deafness as it is an inherent part of who you are (according to the Deaf Community) and parents who take steps to lessen or eliminate their child's deafness are doing their child a grave disservice. I personally find this perspective honestly a bit appalling. The obstacles and handicaps that deafness poses to a person trying to live and thrive in the world are stark and numerous. I don't understand how that can be characterized as anything but a disability.

I feel exactly the same as you do about deafness, so please don’t try to lump me in with people who resist helping their children hear.


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Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
I love my child. I want him to have the best life possible. Autism doesn't offer him that.

There is no “him” without autism. It is an essential part of his self. You might as well say you love someone but you would be happier for them if they were smarter, were extroverted instead of introverted, optimistic instead of pessimistic, and liked tennis and playing guitar instead of collecting comics and playing video games. That would be a different person. And so would your son “without autism”, whatever that even means.


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Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
You're the idiot that introduced this nonsense.

Actually, I believe that was Huey, who said my children were “cursed” with autism. I guess you endorse that description?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
I responded to your hypothetical. Any softening of tone you detected was solely for the benefit of Covfefe, whom I respect.

So you just openly talk out of both sides of your mouth, even though everyone can see all of it? That is bizarre. You fed Covfefe a “little happy clouds” take just because that’s what you felt s/he wanted to hear, and then you openly stated that it was really bullshit you just said to be nice, but what you really believe is that it’s idiotic nonsense. Do you have some reason to believe that Covfefe has stopped reading?


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Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
You are firmly in the anti-vaxxers category as far as I'm concerned.

Wowwww. We are deep in an Orwellian chasm now. It doesn’t matter that all my children are fully vaccinated, and that I don’t speak out against vaccinations. I’m “firmly in the anti-vaxxers category as far as [you] are concerned” because...what? You see it as some kind of general-use catchall insult for people you don’t like? Sorry, SD: you don’t just get to define terminology against all common usage, not to mention basic common sense.
  #936  
Old 09-14-2018, 09:33 AM
j666 j666 is offline
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You sure read a lot into what I said, jesus. I was only responding, in a friendly and matter-of-fact way, to someone saying hardly any white people actually have the features Huey described. I was simply observing that where I live, those features are ubiquitous—but that I recognize that in other places, including the most populated city in the U.S., that is not the case. I didn’t put any value judgement on any of it, except for this, which you apparently completely missed somehow:
Don't mischaracterize what I said; I said that I did not know many people that met Huey's description. I wanted to know where Huey lives, that all the white people he knows appear to be of northern European descent. It could well be in your part of the country.

I don't care that you know feel you understand POC attitude toward white people, but I do care that you truncated that section of your post to leave out "it’s still an erroneous impulse".
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
What. The. Actual. Fuck.
Minnesotans, you mean? Yes, we’re a blonde/red, blue-eyed bunch. We’re also the only state that hasn’t voted for a Republican for president in my lifetime. My wife and I are lifelong Democrats (we call them DFLers here), as is the entire nuclear family I grew up in, along with my maternal grandfather and grandmother. So what the hell are you on about? Jesus, I mean: I know this is the Pit, but that doesn’t mean you have to just go off randomly with no rhyme or reason behind it.
It doesn't matter that you are Minnesotans or Democrats; referring to "the spectrum of what's considered 'white'" in New York is an ugly turn of phrase, and denotes an ugly turn of thought.

Tell me, Huey, can Americans of southern European get a pass on the racism issue, depending on where they fall on the whiteness spectrum? Or are they damned from both sides?
  #937  
Old 09-14-2018, 10:33 AM
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Only a fool would confuse intelligence, which is a real thing like the moon and water, with IQ, which is a biased, made-up thing of no worth ( like the concept of biological race).
Oh, it's not us anti-racists who're shit-their-pants scared.

Hey, octopus, do you smell something? I think it's coming from your trousers...
Yeah, it doesn't actually become true just by repetition.

Anyway, I thought your kind love it when we brown folk are articulate.
Don't do me any favours, you piece of ambulatory shit pressed out of a man-shaped mould.True story, brah!
Oh, yeah, I'm sure you are very active in working to stop modern slavery.

And your pointy White head may only be able to deal with one problem at a time - I'm sure you make monodrones look like consummate multitaskers - but don't project that tragic lack of ability on me.
If race is imaginary, like Voldemort, why are you always crying about the evils of the so-called white man? The whole reason you are triggered is I rightfully pointed out that Africans also caught, sold, and had slaves. Hell, your ancestors might have done so. You are mad and digging deep into your reference books because history undermines your propaganda.

And you like talking about intelligence for some reason. Why is that and more importantly why do you pick on a physical trait? That’s mean! People can’t help their brain structure.

Concerning stopping modern slavery? According to you and Huey, individuals are responsible for whatever any arbitrary grouping you can assign the to does. So yes, like Al Gore, it’s nice to have invented the Internet.
  #938  
Old 09-14-2018, 11:06 AM
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I feel exactly the same as you do about deafness, so please don’t try to lump me in with people who resist helping their children hear..
One of the things that I feel about deafness is that the decision of parents of children with this disability to not seek treatment is similar to the decision of parents of children with autism to not seek treatment. So I do not believe you feel exactly the same as I do about deafness.

Both deafness and autism are disabilities. Both conditions can and do cause significant impairment to successful, independent integration into society. You say there is no "him" without autism (re your son that is). If that aspect of him that is responsible for so much hardship, hardship that you as a parent have the power to lessen, is an unassailable component to his identity, what does that say about your understanding of your son's potential to succeed and thrive to his greatest potential?

I don't mean to sound as if this is anything but a hypothetical. I am trying to be careful not to come across like im being too judgemental, as this is a sensitive, complicated issue which you have myriad more experience with than I.

ETA: especially as my experience amounts to precisely none.

Last edited by Ambivalid; 09-14-2018 at 11:11 AM.
  #939  
Old 09-14-2018, 11:17 AM
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If race is imaginary, like Voldemort, why are you always crying about the evils of the so-called white man? The whole reason you are triggered is I rightfully pointed out that Africans also caught, sold, and had slaves. Hell, your ancestors might have done so. You are mad and digging deep into your reference books because history undermines your propaganda.

And you like talking about intelligence for some reason. Why is that and more importantly why do you pick on a physical trait? That’s mean! People can’t help their brain structure.

Concerning stopping modern slavery? According to you and Huey, individuals are responsible for whatever any arbitrary grouping you can assign the to does. So yes, like Al Gore, it’s nice to have invented the Internet.
Race is a social construct, but it isn't imaginary. You know that. You're twisting words.

"Triggered" is not the same as "angry". You should know that or not use the word.

History is propaganda. "Whataboutism" is not a meaningful response.

You brought up IQ; the response brought up intelligence. If they are not the same, the response is valid; if they are the same, you should not imply the discussion is the respondent's preference.

Your post is dishonest.
  #940  
Old 09-14-2018, 11:20 AM
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Race is a social construct, but it isn't imaginary. You know that. You're twisting words.

"Triggered" is not the same as "angry". You should know that or not use the word.

History is propaganda. "Whataboutism" is not a meaningful response.

You brought up IQ; the response brought up intelligence. If they are not the same, the response is valid; if they are the same, you should not imply the discussion is the respondent's preference.

Your post is dishonest.
MrDibble is a dishonest hypocrite who I’m responding to after I responded to Huey’s interesting post about the wypipo.

And interesting that you bring up history as propaganda. What do you propose as the accepted source of propaganda then? That which supports your currently indoctrination?
  #941  
Old 09-14-2018, 11:37 AM
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MrDibble is a dishonest hypocrite who I’m responding to after I responded to Huey’s interesting post about the wypipo.
No, you are dishonest. You do not argue or discuss issues in good faith. You twist other people's words. You have no intention of seriously considering their points or points of view.

You consistently perpetuate a race-based stereotype, that of the angry ignorant and arrogant white American.
Quote:
Originally Posted by octopus View Post
And interesting that you bring up history as propaganda. What do you propose as the accepted source of propaganda then? That which supports your currently indoctrination?
"The" accepted source? I do not know if that phrase is more ignorant or arrogant.
There are many sources of historical information; people should review as many as they have time and resources for, while always remember that history is written by the 'winners'.
  #942  
Old 09-14-2018, 11:53 AM
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No, you are dishonest. You do not argue or discuss issues in good faith. You twist other people's words. You have no intention of seriously considering their points or points of view.

You consistently perpetuate a race-based stereotype, that of the angry ignorant and arrogant white American.
"The" accepted source? I do not know if that phrase is more ignorant or arrogant.
There are many sources of historical information; people should review as many as they have time and resources for, while always remember that history is written by the 'winners'.
Such irony. It burns! Every time I post in the Pit my words are twisted and deliberately misinterpreted. Let’s assume what you say is true, for sake of argument, purely hypothetical, you think I’m obligated to uphold a higher standard?

But, I do consider their points of view. I responded to Huey’s anti-white and racist post with facts. True facts, real news. Not fake news. Facts you can find if you hop on your bike and go to your local library to read about. The problem with the facts I present is that they undermine the cult of victimhood.

If you built your life around fighting the evil white man because of what some white people did back in the day it’s terribly inconvenient to have pointed out that your own ancestors were doing the same damn thing. That’s why the “honest” people you are so gallantly white-knighting immediately resorted to profane ad-hominems. They know that factually and logically their position has no consistency. That’s why they engage in hostile rhetoric. It’s emotional manipulation designed to trigger a Pavlovian response whenever the attack word of “dat’s racist” or “sexist” or whatever are shrieked. Dribble and others could easily refute my statements with the so-called real facts if I was wrong.

The fact that they responded with ad hominems and 0 cites is evidence that I’m not.
  #943  
Old 09-14-2018, 12:15 PM
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Back to some semblance of thread topic:

All the Ways Being White Helped Me Avoid Prison
  #944  
Old 09-14-2018, 12:50 PM
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Back to some semblance of thread topic:

All the Ways Being White Helped Me Avoid Prison
That reads more like being rich and a woman helped her avoid prison.
  #945  
Old 09-14-2018, 12:55 PM
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I feel exactly the same as you do about deafness, so please don’t try to lump me in with people who resist helping their children hear.
This was probably meant for Ambi, but we both felt the same way. His response covers mine as well.

Quote:
There is no “him” without autism. It is an essential part of his self. You might as well say you love someone but you would be happier for them if they were smarter, were extroverted instead of introverted, optimistic instead of pessimistic, and liked tennis and playing guitar instead of collecting comics and playing video games. That would be a different person. And so would your son “without autism”, whatever that even means.
To reiterate, autism is a series of poorly understood, intermingled disorders. The result is disability that ranges from slightly different from NT and highly functioning to completely infantile. It is not a state of being. It is not a core of the personality.

So your statement is confusing to me. Are you saying that his personality would be different if he weren't autistic? Maybe. I would love him regardless in hypothetical magic land. Are you saying that his experiences would be different? I certainly hope so. His life has been a minefield of specialists, counselors, special ed, OT, and on, and on. He is desperately unhappy at times because other kids think he's weird and at other times doesn't care at all. He is an amazing, wonderful kid with horrible disabilities. Why wouldn't I want to spare him that? Out of some selfish sense that it might cost me the relationship I have my child now (in hypothetical magic land)? I would have a different one, and I would love him all the same.

Quote:
Actually, I believe that was Huey, who said my children were “cursed” with autism. I guess you endorse that description?
No, I don't. You're the one who said that you wouldn't cure them even if you could, which is when I excoriated you, because I think that's irresponsible parenting. Nice try pinning it on Huey though.

Quote:
So you just openly talk out of both sides of your mouth, even though everyone can see all of it? That is bizarre. You fed Covfefe a “little happy clouds” take just because that’s what you felt s/he wanted to hear, and then you openly stated that it was really bullshit you just said to be nice, but what you really believe is that it’s idiotic nonsense. Do you have some reason to believe that Covfefe has stopped reading?
I'm not entirely sure what your'e on about. I explained your stupid magic cure to covfefe. I reiterated covfefe's arguments back to him, and accepted the ones that I acknowledge exist in the real world. Again, his comments addressed the real world and your situation was hypothetical.

Also, you're a hateful person and he's a decent one. You also can't read.

Quote:
Wowwww. We are deep in an Orwellian chasm now. It doesn’t matter that all my children are fully vaccinated, and that I don’t speak out against vaccinations. I’m “firmly in the anti-vaxxers category as far as [you] are concerned” because...what? You see it as some kind of general-use catchall insult for people you don’t like? Sorry, SD: you don’t just get to define terminology against all common usage, not to mention basic common sense.
I admit that I didn't take enough time to explain this as someone of your intellect requires. Anti-vaxxers don't follow medical practice because of nonsense reasons that have been thoroughly de-bunked. You would not treat your child(ren) if you could for life-changing disabilities because "It is an essential part of his self". The very of definition of woo encapsulated right there. Anti-vaxxers are idiots. You are also an idiot. You are now part of the woo, idiot crowd.

Huey I missed the part where you said that SlackerInc's autistic child(ren) were some kind of curse. Knock that shit off. Disabilities are not fair game. Children are not fair game. Rip into SlackerInc all you want, thusly. SlackerInc is a vacuous thick-headed derelict whose birth certificate is an apology from the condom factory.

(Also, sorry for the hijack. )

Last edited by Sunny Daze; 09-14-2018 at 12:57 PM.
  #946  
Old 09-14-2018, 01:03 PM
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If race is imaginary, like Voldemort, why are you always crying about the evils of the so-called white man?
Did I say race was imaginary? C'mon, I know even you can read better than that.
Quote:
Hell, your ancestors might have done so.
Only my White ancestors, I'm afraid.
Quote:
You are mad and digging deep into your reference books because history undermines your propaganda.
Oh, third time is suuure to be the charm, you betchya.

Do you know the definition of insanity, octopus? Because you're providing a textbook example with this repeated lame attempt at a smear. I know it rankles you, a brown man with a vocabulary you can only dream of. But green isn't a good colour to go with those robes...
Quote:
And you like talking about intelligence for some reason.
I wasn't the one who brought up IQ, simpleton.
Quote:
Why is that and more importantly why do you pick on a physical trait? That’s mean! People can’t help their brain structure.
This is the lamest attempt at tu quoque I've ever seen.

And you could help your brain structure - just stop digging quite so deep in your nose when you chase those boogers, it might help.

Or not, I've heard syphilis does terrible things to a mind. If I've told you once, I've told you a hundred times - just because it's your cousin, doesn't mean you don't have to wear a rubber.
Quote:

Concerning stopping modern slavery? According to you and Huey, individuals are responsible for whatever any arbitrary grouping you can assign the to does.
No, that's be what you racists do, octopus. Like I said, plenty of non-evil, non-racist Whites helped end slavery. You don't get to grab their glory.

But hey, nice proofreading, genius.
  #947  
Old 09-14-2018, 01:18 PM
j666 j666 is offline
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Such irony. It burns! Every time I post in the Pit my words are twisted and deliberately misinterpreted. Let’s assume what you say is true, for sake of argument, purely hypothetical, you think I’m obligated to uphold a higher standard?

But, I do consider their points of view. I responded to Huey’s anti-white and racist post with facts. True facts, real news. Not fake news. Facts you can find if you hop on your bike and go to your local library to read about. The problem with the facts I present is that they undermine the cult of victimhood.

If you built your life around fighting the evil white man because of what some white people did back in the day it’s terribly inconvenient to have pointed out that your own ancestors were doing the same damn thing. That’s why the “honest” people you are so gallantly white-knighting immediately resorted to profane ad-hominems. They know that factually and logically their position has no consistency. That’s why they engage in hostile rhetoric. It’s emotional manipulation designed to trigger a Pavlovian response whenever the attack word of “dat’s racist” or “sexist” or whatever are shrieked. Dribble and others could easily refute my statements with the so-called real facts if I was wrong.

The fact that they responded with ad hominems and 0 cites is evidence that I’m not.
No, your words are not twisted. I have seen rational extrapolation from your post brought to logical conclusions, and a few reducio ad absuram responses, but no deliberate mischaracterizations. You really are that unpleasant and racist and sexist. Stop playing the victim.

I don't know to which post of yours you refer with "I responded to Huey’s anti-white and racist post with facts", but your style is to present one incomplete fact of dubious relevance out of context. There is no reason to refute your statements; they have no substance; your facts are immaterial or mischaracterized; and your arguments are not honest.

Your use of the term "fake news" also casts doubts on your veracity. Did someone accuse you of posting fake news? I missed that.

You dismiss "what some white people did back in the day" as immaterial while citing citing actions of others three to four centuries earlier to support your position. Do you really not see how dishonest that is?

People attack you with profanity because this is the Pit, and you are not a good person. You use fake vernacular in your posts.

And don't you fucking dare accuse me of white-knighting, you miserable son of a bitch. Don't. You. Dare.
  #948  
Old 09-14-2018, 01:30 PM
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BigT BigT is offline
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Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
So your statement is confusing to me. Are you saying that his personality would be different if he weren't autistic? Maybe. I would love him regardless in hypothetical magic land. Are you saying that his experiences would be different? I certainly hope so. His life has been a minefield of specialists, counselors, special ed, OT, and on, and on. He is desperately unhappy at times because other kids think he's weird and at other times doesn't care at all. He is an amazing, wonderful kid with horrible disabilities. Why wouldn't I want to spare him that? Out of some selfish sense that it might cost me the relationship I have my child now (in hypothetical magic land)? I would have a different one, and I would love him all the same.
What he's saying is exactly what those autistic people who are able to commuincate actually say. There is a huge resentment of the idea that they need to be "cured" and made neurotypical. A huge portion of them say that, if there was a "cure," they would not take it, because being autistic is such a core part of their personality and completely shapes how they look at the world. They feel they would become different people if they were neurotypical.

This isn't something SlackerInc made up. Just a quick look on Google found this article. There are full out organizations for autistic people that agree with him.

I'm not going to say that wanting a cure is wrong, per se. I can even see an argument that it depends on how high functioning the person is. I can argue that they should be able to make a decision for themselves if possible, and that parents can choose otherwise.

On the other hand, I do see the point of trying to teach how to cope and to work on individual symptoms rather than trying to turn the person neurotypical. I can see how wanting a cure can be a problem.

As such, I would never tell SlackerInc that he is wrong to be on the side that opposes cures. Hell, I would never even think it was my place to accuse him of abusing his children--I don't know him.

Sure, he's dangerously wrong about racism, Islamophobia, and similar topics. But I don't want to give him a victim complex by acting like a legitimate, widely held, and well-backed position is horrible.

Last edited by BigT; 09-14-2018 at 01:33 PM.
  #949  
Old 09-14-2018, 01:32 PM
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MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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Originally Posted by j666 View Post
You use fake vernacular in your posts.
It's not even appropriate fake vernacular, that's the truly pathetic part.

But hey, at least I got an actual "shrieked" that time, not a "squawked". Good times. It was Mighty White of octo to do that for me.
  #950  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:16 PM
j666 j666 is offline
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Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
It's not even appropriate fake vernacular, that's the truly pathetic part.

But hey, at least I got an actual "shrieked" that time, not a "squawked". Good times. It was Mighty White of octo to do that for me.
Am I white knighting you? I thought I was just disagreeing with a jerk.
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