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Old 05-28-2005, 01:16 AM
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Typo Negative Typo Negative is offline
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Peeing in the back yard to scare off coyotes

My wife wants me to pee in the backyard. She says it will scare off coyotes so that they won't get the cats. It sounds a little suspicious to me.

Anyone know for sure?
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Old 05-28-2005, 02:25 AM
justwannano justwannano is offline
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Dunno about coyotes but I've heard it works for rabbits and deer.
As a side note Its common knowlege that wild critters pee to mark their territory.
So why wouldn't it work? And if it doesn't work is that critter challenging you? Time to get out the 30/06 and let Wiley know whose boss?
Another note
Ted Nugent claims to have peed around a fresh kill in Africa and left the dead animal over night without african critters of the night bothering his kill.
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Old 05-28-2005, 02:37 AM
NurseCarmen NurseCarmen is offline
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Pee on your door handles. Then your wife won't let your cats outside.

Coyotes are extremely adaptable. They've reached the point where they ignore human scents in the areas they have moved into.
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Old 05-28-2005, 03:50 AM
groman groman is offline
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Not to hijack, but would coyotes really get your cats? I wouldn't think that anything would go after cats as food unless it was utterly starving... I've definitely never heard of a dog eating a cat, and I'd imagine dogs are a lot less picky than coyotes... I mean... it's cats... I can't put it into words, but something about cats just seems inedible...
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Old 05-28-2005, 04:14 AM
DrDeth DrDeth is online now
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Welll... in the wild, wild animals tend to avoid "marked" areas. "Tend".

Yes, coyotes will eat a domestic cat. Not their first choice mind you- in general, land carnivores don't prey on other land carnivores*. But the urban coyote is a strange beastie indeed.

* Which is why, in general- land carnivores don't prey on humans. Oddly, and backing this up- many Puma attacks (when they attack with intent to eat) seem to be on vegetarian dudes. By "prey" I mean "hunt with intent to eat". Territorial "disputes', or mothers being protective of their young, or getting between them and what they really want to eat- then you're fair game. This could perhaps be happening with cats or small dogs who try and "protect" their outside food bowl from a coyote.

Of course, the best way to protect your cats from coyotes- is to not let the cats outside in the1st place. Few coyotes can pick locks.

And, "indoor only" cats outlive "indoor/outdoor" cats by a factor of at least 2-1.
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Old 05-28-2005, 04:51 AM
Blake Blake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth
land carnivores don't prey on other land carnivores*.

Would you have a reference for that? I can think of any number of exceptions. Indeed I canít think of any land carnivores that [/I]donít[i] routinely prey on other land carnivores. Leopards routinely prey on baboons, cheetahs routinely prey on jackals, jaguars routinely prey on opossums.

Quote:
many Puma attacks (when they attack with intent to eat) seem to be on vegetarian dudes.

Iíve heard this before, but once again Iíd have to see a reference to credit it as more than an urban myth. Given that puma attacks are perishingly rare, and given that a reasonable portion of the population is vegetarian is there one scintilla of evidence that vegetarians are overrepresented as victims?

And if they are, given that I suspect that vegetarians are overrepresented in unarmed Sierra Club type people who routinely traverse the wilds are they really overrepresented to any significant level?
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Old 05-30-2005, 08:44 PM
Gary Robson Gary Robson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth
Not their first choice mind you- in general, land carnivores don't prey on other land carnivores*.
Are you saying that the preferred prey of a typical carnivore is herbivores (a.k.a., "prey animals")? That might typically be true of large mammalian carnivores.

On the other hand, if you're saying that it's rare, or even uncommon, for carnivorous mammals and birds to eat other carnivores, I can bury you under a pile of conflicting evidence. You used wolves in your example. Yes, they tend to hunt whatever their mothers taught them to hunt when they were pups. They will eat whatever they have an opportunity to eat, especially if prey is scarce. Wolves regularly kill coyotes, although they only eat them if they're quite hungry.

Great horned owls regularly eat weasels, snakes, and other species of owls. I also lost a kitten to an owl.

Foxes, bobcats, and coyotes eat domestic cats around here whenever they can catch one (which is why my cats come indoors at night). Bobcats and grey foxes can even go up a tree after the domestic cat.

Numerous species of snakes eat other snakes, and many snakes live almost exclusively on frogs and toads (which are insectivores).
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Old 05-31-2005, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groman
would coyotes really get your cats?
Yes. They eat our cats. (At least I believe that's what happens to them.) But it's not a big deal... we just get new cats.
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Old 05-28-2005, 09:35 AM
John Carter of Mars John Carter of Mars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooje
My wife wants me to pee in the backyard. She says it will scare off coyotes...
Dude! How big is your dick?

Ahem: Cats are difficult prey. For example, they can climb trees, fences and things that coyotes cannot. We live way back in the woods and coyotes are plentiful here. We have one cat that's 18 years old and another that's about seven. These cats stay outside all the time and they've avoided death by coyote so far.
While I do pee in the yard with some frequency, these cats range much farther than the yard so I doubt that the "pee in the yard" thingy has anything to do with it. It sure doesn't discourage armadillos and 'possums from foraging in the yard.

But hey! It's a simple request, so I'd comply. How often do you get a chance to pee in the yard and please the Lady of the House with one simple act? Years pass, cats continue to thrive, you get brownie points. Win/win deal!

Cowboy philosopher:
"There ain't no pleasin' a woman. A man can stand on the porch and piss into the yard and she'll gripe.
Go stand in the yard and piss up on the porch, she still gripes!"
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Old 05-28-2005, 03:34 PM
KlondikeGeoff KlondikeGeoff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooje
My wife wants me to pee in the backyard. She says it will scare off coyotes so that they won't get the cats. It sounds a little suspicious to me.

Anyone know for sure?
Whether this would work with coyotes is not the point, as there a LOT of other predators in Calif, as here in AZ, that will gladly have your cats for lunch. Such as mountain lions, bobcats, feral dogs, owls, hawks, etc. Even danger from rattlers.

If you want to let you cats live to ripe old age, keep 'em inside!
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Old 05-28-2005, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlondikeGeoff
Whether this would work with coyotes is not the point, as there a LOT of other predators in Calif, as here in AZ, that will gladly have your cats for lunch. Such as mountain lions, bobcats, feral dogs, owls, hawks, etc. Even danger from rattlers.

[/B]
We've got a cat door. And the Mrs. wants them to come and go as they please. Coyotes are really the only predator to worry about in this area (suburban Los Angeles). We're far enough from the hills so we don't see a lot of them. But they will come down occasionally.
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Old 05-28-2005, 07:38 PM
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Iíve got a bottle of coyote urine right in front of me. It is sold in hunting equipment stores. I donít remember what the hell I bought it for, but back in my hunting days, I used to buy anything that was advertised to draw in deer. Anyway, the story on the bottle says that it is to be used two ways: As a coyote lure, to create the illusion that there are coyotes nearby..if you are hunting coyotes, and two, as a deer repellant, to flush deer out of an area while you wait down wind. I donít remember it ever worked for me, but I will say it stinks something awful.
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Old 05-28-2005, 07:44 PM
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Even if you manage to keep the coyotes out of your own backyard, how would you confine the cats to your backyard?
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Old 05-28-2005, 08:59 PM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Quote:
And, "indoor only" cats outlive "indoor/outdoor" cats by a factor of at least 2-1.
While I agree with what you said I think a I/O cat is about 2x happier then a indoor only cat.
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Old 05-30-2005, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooje
We've got a cat door.

Nail up the cat door and keep Fluffy inside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanicbird
While I agree with what you said I think a I/O cat is about 2x happier then a indoor only cat.

How so? Cats are happy as long as they have food, something to play with, warmth and attention. My cats get all of that, and they're safe. Not one of them has ever even tried to get outside, and we have six furballs. They're well-fed, they have the run of the house, they've got beds and toys and space galore. I challenge ANYONE to say they could be any happier.
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Old 03-13-2006, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooje
My wife wants me to pee in the backyard. She says it will scare off coyotes so that they won't get the cats. It sounds a little suspicious to me.

Anyone know for sure?
Well, I suppose it would work if your aim was good.
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Old 03-13-2006, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooje
My wife wants me to pee in the backyard. She says it will scare off coyotes so that they won't get the cats. It sounds a little suspicious to me.
Borrow a cougar from the zoo.

He will be more effective than you could possibly be!
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Old 03-14-2006, 03:55 PM
Steve MB Steve MB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooje
Peeing in the back yard to scare off coyotes
I tried explaining it slowly and clearly, but neither the Homeowners' Association nor the Department of Health was having any.
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Old 03-14-2006, 06:43 PM
BoringDad BoringDad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve MB
I tried explaining it slowly and clearly, but neither the Homeowners' Association nor the Department of Health was having any.
That is why I'll never live in an area with a HomeOwner's association. Telling me when I can or can't urinate in my own backyard. Grumble grumble... cabin in the woods... grumble grumble... show them alll....

(Not implying anything about SteveMB. Just personal rant about HOAs.)
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:05 PM
MelCthefirst MelCthefirst is offline
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I've just read through this thread and I tend to think DrDeth has a point and Blake and I.Wombat (my favourite animal BTW) are being pedantic. Just let it go already!
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Old 03-14-2006, 09:03 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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Originally Posted by MelCthefirst
I've just read through this thread and I tend to think DrDeth has a point and Blake and I.Wombat (my favourite animal BTW) are being pedantic. Just let it go already!

This is GQ, it is expected that your responses are factual, not baseless opinion.

If you think that he has a point when he says that land predators don't generally prey on other land predators then present some facts to that end. The journal reference says that predators eating other predators is ubiquitous in terrestrial ecosystems. Can you even explain how it can be both ubiquitous and not generally non-existent?

Dr Deth's own reference says that coyotes are agressive towards smaller predators and avoid othe predators. His own reference shows that carnivores routinely show up in the stomach contents of other arnivores.

If you think he has a point when he says that opossums and shrews are neither predators nor carnivores then present some facts to that end. I have presented references where zoologists state clearly that shrews and opossums are both carnivores and predators. Can you provide some facts to support your apparent belief that they are neither?


In short MelC, do you have anything factual to contribute to this GQ thread, or is your entire contribution baseless opinion?
  #22  
Old 03-15-2006, 02:21 PM
MelCthefirst MelCthefirst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
This is GQ, it is expected that your responses are factual, not baseless opinion.
snip
In short MelC, do you have anything factual to contribute to this GQ thread, or is your entire contribution baseless opinion?
Opinion based on what I have read by you all - what else?!
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:57 PM
Gary Robson Gary Robson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelCthefirst
I've just read through this thread and I tend to think DrDeth has a point...
This entire debate comes down to DrDeth's first post in this thread, which included the statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth
in general, land carnivores don't prey on other land carnivores.
This statement has been proven false over and over and over, and DrDeth keeps trying to move the target ("yeah, mammals, I just meant mammals"). Every time he moves it, he's proven wrong again.

Exactly what is this "point" that DrDeth has, MelCthefirst?
  #24  
Old 03-15-2006, 12:05 AM
Blake Blake is offline
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Interference interactions, co-existence and conservation of mammalian carnivores
JOHN D. C. LINNELL* and OLAV STRAND
Diversity and Distributions (2000) 6, 169Ė176

Quote:
Three studies of remnant populations of San Joaquin kit foxes ( V. macrotis mutica ) in California found that large canid predation (mainly by coyotes) was responsible for between 75% and 90% of mortality among radio-collared kit foxes (Cypher & Scrivner, 1992; Eliason & Berry, 1994; Ralls & White, 1995)Ö..

High coyote densities have also caused problems for two high-profile reintroduction projects involving black-footed ferrets ( Mustela nigripes ) and swift foxes ( V. velox ). Radio-telemetry documented that the dominant cause of mortality (100% and 91% of mortality where cause was identified, respectively) among released individuals was predation from other predators, mainly coyotes (Carbyn et al. , 1994; Clark, 1994)Ö..

So here we have clear evidence that predation by coyotes is responsible for in excess of 75% of the total mortaility of three differnt carnivore species. Yet Dr. Deth and MelC still want us to believe that coyotes avoid other predators.



The potential for interspecific competition among African carnivores
T. M. Caro and C. J. Stoner
Biological Conservation
Volume 110, Issue 1 , March 2003, Pages 67-75
Quote:
We found that, on average, African carnivores might be killed and eaten by 8.6 (SE=0.8) other species. The species potentially most vulnerable to interspecific consumption were the zorilla and slender mongoose (potentially eaten by 33 species each), dwarf mongoose (27), and desert dwarf mongoose and Pousargues' mongoose (Dologale dybowskii; 21 each), African linsang (Pioana richardsoni; 18), and Alexander's cusimanse (Crossarchus alexandri; 16). The mean dropped to 5.4 (SE=0.5) species using the >33% range overlap cut-off.

Interference interactions, co-existence and conservation of mammalian carnivores
JOHN D. C. LINNELL* and OLAV STRAND
Diversity and Distributions (2000) 6, 169Ė176
Quote:
Until intensive field work was carried out the reasons why cheetahs ( Acinonyx jubatus ) occur at low density had long been a subject of concern among conservationists. Cub mortality between birth and independence averaged 95%, of which 73% was due to predation, mainly by lions ( Panthera leo ) (Laurenson, 1994). The effects of this can be seen at the population level, as cheetah density shows an inverse relationship to hyena ( Crocuta crocuta ) and lion density (Caro, 1994)Ö. The counter-intuitive result is that arctic foxes, cheetahs and wild dogs will probably survive best in areas with low prey abundance because areas rich in prey will be dominated by larger, more aggressive carnivoresÖ.
And we see evidence that any African carnivores is on average open to predation by no less than 8 other species and that 73% of juvenile mortality is due to predation by other carnivores. Yet we are expected to believe that such predation is rare.

What was this point that Dr. Deth had exactly?
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