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Old 03-18-2018, 07:19 AM
MikeF MikeF is offline
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McCabe firing

Sorry if this is already being addressed in another thread. If so, I didn't see it.

Much is being made of McCabe's dismissal and laying blame at Trump's feet. What doesn't seem to be getting much play is the fact that the firing was recommended by McCabe's own FBI OPR officials. That tells me that there must be some substance to the accusations of "lack of candor" - FBI speak for lying. Either that or there is something else in the IG's report that warrants ending his career. Yes, Trump wanted McCabe gone for reasons other than lying but it appears the McCabe gave Sessions the ammunition to fire him for other legitimate reasons.
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Old 03-18-2018, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
Sorry if this is already being addressed in another thread. If so, I didn't see it.

Much is being made of McCabe's dismissal and laying blame at Trump's feet. What doesn't seem to be getting much play is the fact that the firing was recommended by McCabe's own FBI OPR officials.
(italics mine) Cite for this, please?
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Old 03-18-2018, 08:24 AM
Inbred Mm domesticus Inbred Mm domesticus is offline
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Every report I’ve seen this weekend includes the information that his firing was recommended. I read mostly mainstream media sources.
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Old 03-18-2018, 08:31 AM
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Every report I’ve seen this weekend includes the information that his firing was recommended. I read mostly mainstream media sources.
There's that nefarious passive voice that I hate so much. No actor. No locus of responsibility. WHO recommended?

(My emphasis.)

Last edited by ThelmaLou; 03-18-2018 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 03-18-2018, 08:37 AM
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There's that nefarious passive voice that I hate so much. No actor. No locus of responsibility. WHO recommended?

(My emphasis.)
FBI's Office of Professional Responsibility, run by Candice Will( who was appointed by Robert Mueller in 2004 ).
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Old 03-18-2018, 09:03 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is online now
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Yep.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/16/polit...red/index.html
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Tamerlane View Post
FBI's Office of Professional Responsibility, run by Candice Will( who was appointed by Robert Mueller in 2004 ).
Yeah, the firing, itself, doesn't seem political. It's the timing, the manner and the needless tweeting afterwards that make this a political mistake. Not to mention just downright unpresidential.

Last edited by John Mace; 03-18-2018 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 03-19-2018, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
(italics mine) Cite for this, please?
I didn't think I really needed to cite something that has been reported on by multiple media sources. Many, many opinion pieces and other more "traditional' news stories have implied, if not outright claimed, that it was Trump's pressure on Sessions that led to the firing. And I'm not saying that the OPR recommendation is being omitted from reporting. Its just that its not getting much emphasis. Maybe its just me but it seemed there was a pro-McCabe slant to the reporting. Perhaps he deserved to be fired, even with two days until his pension. I guess we'll just have to wait until the IG's report is released and see.
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Old 03-19-2018, 10:04 AM
Inbred Mm domesticus Inbred Mm domesticus is offline
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MikeF, your analysis has a problem with perceptual bias. Your mistake is to read opinion pieces on a charged political topic where there are few facts available. What possible good can come from that?

As for mainstream media: A CNN article. In mainstream sources, I believe the issue you encounter when finding bias, is that Trump is a jerk. Even justifiable acts like firing Comey or firing McCabe are acts performed by a jerk. So it seems like something unethical even when it is perfectly ethical and protective of a widely respected institution like the FBI.

Here's my analysis that I wasted a small piece of my life on:

6364 characters total

548 characters on introduction: Sessions firing him, Trump taunts, and the consequences for McCabe's pension.

435 characters on McCabe's response.

286 characters for a Trump tweet.

289 characters on pension outcome of firing.

2353 characters on Horowitz's investigation and OPR's investigation into McCabe specifically.

773 characters on McCabe's accusation that this is an attack stemming from the election investigation.

619 characters on how McCabe learned he was fired.

525 characters on more of Trump's incessant attacks on McCabe.

320 characters on speculating about the pension.

Subtracting the introduction, well more than half the article covers the Justice Department's and Trump's view of McCabe. This view, that he should be fired, is backed up by two separate, non-partisan, investigatory bodies.

Approximately 1/2 of the remaining text is devoted to McCabe's defense and counter-accusations. The weight of anything McCabe says is not backed up by two separate, non-partisan, investigatory bodies.

Another 1/2 covers the pension and minor controversy over how he learned of his firing.

I don't see the problem here. There's no bias in terms of coverage. All the facts, as we know them, are presented. This article is only slightly less informative jasg's linked blog article. I come away from the CNN article with two major pieces of information: Trump is a dick and McCabe probably screwed up.

Last edited by Inbred Mm domesticus; 03-19-2018 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 03-19-2018, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
I didn't think I really needed to cite something that has been reported on by multiple media sources. Many, many opinion pieces and other more "traditional' news stories have implied, if not outright claimed, that it was Trump's pressure on Sessions that led to the firing. And I'm not saying that the OPR recommendation is being omitted from reporting. Its just that its not getting much emphasis. Maybe its just me but it seemed there was a pro-McCabe slant to the reporting. Perhaps he deserved to be fired, even with two days until his pension. I guess we'll just have to wait until the IG's report is released and see.
(emphasis mine)
What you may be seeing is not a pro-McCabe slant to the reporting, but instead a pro-due process, pro-rule-of-law slant to the reporting.

I'm not seeing any mainstream media outlets saying "McCabe is a sweetheart and that's why we find this troubling." But I am seeing a lot of mainstream media outlets saying "this firing violated procedure and protocol, and that's why we find this troubling."
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
(emphasis mine)
What you may be seeing is not a pro-McCabe slant to the reporting, but instead a pro-due process, pro-rule-of-law slant to the reporting.

I'm not seeing any mainstream media outlets saying "McCabe is a sweetheart and that's why we find this troubling." But I am seeing a lot of mainstream media outlets saying "this firing violated procedure and protocol, and that's why we find this troubling."
What procedure did it violate? What process is McCabe due?
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Old 03-20-2018, 08:38 AM
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What procedure did it violate? What process is McCabe due?
Normally one would expect an opportunity to confront one's accusers before punishment is meted out. One does not expect to be told by upper management "Ooooh, three more days until you can retire with a pension. Unless you get fired first! Ha ha ha, wouldn't that be too bad for you if you got fired just before you got your pension? Oooh, you're getting close to the deadline, maybe you'll get that pension after all! Oh, you didn't. Ha ha ha, you're not getting that pension that you worked over 20 years to get. See what happens when you don't pledge fealty to me?"
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Old 03-18-2018, 10:53 AM
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Seems to me someone 'recommended' Comey's firing too. I'm not buying any of it until I see some hard evidence, certainly more than Trump's and one of his attorneys' tweets. I wouldn't take their word on the time of day.
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:10 AM
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We have to trust that the firing was recommended by the review.

I don't trust this. Their report won't be available for some time.

Honestly, if Trump said the sky was blue, I would go outside to check. The Trump administration lies so much, I just cannot trust anything they say.
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:42 PM
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Honestly, if Trump said the sky was blue, I would go outside to check. The Trump administration lies so much, I just cannot trust anything they say.
A classic tale comes to mind:
Quote:
There once was a shepherd boy who was bored as he sat on the hillside watching the village sheep. To amuse himself he took a great breath and sang out, "Wolf! Wolf! The Wolf is chasing the sheep!"

The villagers came running up the hill to help the boy drive the wolf away. But when they arrived at the top of the hill, they found no wolf. The boy laughed at the sight of their angry faces.

"Don't cry 'wolf', shepherd boy," said the villagers, "when there's no wolf!" They went grumbling back down the hill.

Later, the boy sang out again, "Wolf! Wolf! The wolf is chasing the sheep!" To his naughty delight, he watched the villagers run up the hill to help him drive the wolf away.

When the villagers saw no wolf they sternly said, "Save your frightened song for when there is really something wrong! Don't cry 'wolf' when there is NO wolf!"

But the boy just grinned and watched them go grumbling down the hill once more.

Later, he saw a REAL wolf prowling about his flock. Alarmed, he leaped to his feet and sang out as loudly as he could, "Wolf! Wolf!"

But the villagers thought he was trying to fool them again, and so they didn't come.

At sunset, everyone wondered why the shepherd boy hadn't returned to the village with their sheep. They went up the hill to find the boy. They found him weeping.

"There really was a wolf here! The flock has scattered! I cried out, "Wolf!" Why didn't you come?"

An old man tried to comfort the boy as they walked back to the village.

"We'll help you look for the lost sheep in the morning," he said, putting his arm around the youth, "Nobody believes a liar...even when he is telling the truth!"
http://www.storyarts.org/library/aes...ories/boy.html

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Last edited by PastTense; 03-18-2018 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 03-18-2018, 03:49 PM
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You seriously thougt you needed to recount "the boy who cried wolf"?
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Old 03-18-2018, 03:51 PM
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You seriously thougt you needed to recount "the boy who cried wolf"?
Could have been "Chicken Little".
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Old 03-18-2018, 04:08 PM
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You seriously thougt you needed to recount "the boy who cried wolf"?
I liked his post.
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Old 03-18-2018, 04:18 PM
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I liked his post.
Yes, it was very insightful. Except I thought the boy was supposed to be eaten by the wolf so maybe he should have copy and pasted the entirety of his post from a more hard core stories website.

Last edited by CarnalK; 03-18-2018 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 03-18-2018, 04:15 PM
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You seriously thougt you needed to recount "the boy who cried wolf"?
This version might be more apropos in the long run....

(Image from Oglaf, SFW but using a link to a different copy since most of the webcomic is distinctly NSFW.)
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:06 PM
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Lawfare has one of the best accounts that I have read.

Regardless of the underlying (and not yet public) issues with McCabe, the hastened firing sends a chilling message to others.

I also am of the opinion that Trump would have fired Sessions had McCabe not been terminated before officially reaching retirement. So Sessions could have done this as a CYA or to protect Mueller for a bit longer.

Last edited by jasg; 03-18-2018 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 03-18-2018, 03:27 PM
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I would certainly like to know more (and am certain we will). There was a recommendation, as noted, but I understand that we do not know what standard practice was followed after that, and what was cut short in order to remove his pension. In other words, once the recommendation is made there is normally a system in place for review of the findings, and internal hearings. It is not clear how much of this was done according to SOP.

Because of the way it was handled, whether or not it was wrong, it looks improper.
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Old 03-18-2018, 07:16 PM
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Thank you, Banquet Bear. I had heard that the process was not followed per spec, as it were.
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Old 03-18-2018, 07:32 PM
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Honestly, if Trump said the sky was blue, I would go outside to check.
If Trump said the sky was blue, I'd assume I had had some serious brain injury and been in a coma for quite a while and during that time the color of the sky changed to banana-peel yellow.
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:07 PM
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I can't say I'm fully read up on all the details of the case - but it sure as hell seems the fact he was fired literally a day or so before he was eligible to retire with pension/benefits was not a coincidence, but was deliberately timed for a maximum "fuck you" effect.

Last edited by zombywoof; 03-18-2018 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:53 PM
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McCabe will shut down GoFundMe page, which raised more than $538,000 for his legal defense

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Originally Posted by The Washington Post
Ousted FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe is shutting down his online campaign to raise money for a legal-defense fund, after taking in more than a half-million dollars in donations, his spokeswoman announced Monday.

Melissa Schwartz, McCabe’s spokeswoman, said McCabe’s GoFundMe site will stop accepting contributions as of 7 p.m. Monday. She said the money, which “more than tripled” the original goal, would soon be transferred to a more formal legal defense trust. As of 11:30 a.m., the fund had raised more than $538,000.

In a statement, McCabe said he “never imagined that I would need to rely on this type of assistance,” but the support “has been simply overwhelming and has led to contributions that have left us stunned and extraordinarily grateful.”

“Hopefully our efforts, fueled by this incredible support, will encourage others to stand up for themselves, and the truth, as well,” he said. “It is not lost on me that each contribution reflects not just someone’s well wishes, but also their acknowledgment that something in this situation is not fair or just.”
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:05 PM
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I suspect the response is less one of sympathy for the suspiciously expedited firing of bureaucrat than a pair of upturned fingers toward President Trump and Jeff Sessions, neither of whom are winning any popularity contests among the general public. It may be hoped that this will reflect a wave of voter participation in the mid-term and 2020 elections as well as special elections in the interim.

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Old 04-13-2018, 02:29 PM
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For those interested, the OIG report regarding McCabe's "Lack of Candor" appears to be available here. (It does not appear to be on the OIG website, so if it's not what it purports to be, my apologies).
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:27 PM
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For those interested, the OIG report regarding McCabe's "Lack of Candor" appears to be available here. (It does not appear to be on the OIG website, so if it's not what it purports to be, my apologies).
Looks like McCabe wasn’t truthful to about a dozen people.

The lesson here is that Trump has nothing to worry about; he’s lied to like 320 million.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:24 PM
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Looks like McCabe wasn’t truthful to about a dozen people.

The lesson here is that Trump has nothing to worry about; he’s lied to like 320 million.
Curious whether anyone has read his point-by-point rebuttal. It's difficult for me to understand the back-and-forth; I feel like I lack a sufficiently solid understanding of the legal principles and bureaucratic history and so forth involved to make a fair judgment. Do others, with greater background (note that I'm not saying "with greater partisan venom"), have insight here?
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Old 04-13-2018, 03:10 PM
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The takeaway seems to be that one should not lie to one's boss, the INSD, and the OIG.
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Old 04-13-2018, 06:57 PM
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The takeaway seems to be that one should not lie to one's boss, the INSD, and the OIG.
Affirmative. There seems to have been an element of CYA involved.

Doesn't change that Trump wanted him gone anyway for having the audacity to be involved with the collusion investigation, but he gave our unbeloved Prez and AG the weapon to shoot him with.
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