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Old 04-12-2019, 08:14 AM
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Can UK simply walk away from EU?


When I leave an organization, I usually walk away and don't look back. Sometimes I'll tell them that I am leaving, return items belonging to them, and/or will no longer pay dues, etc.

Why does May need an exit plan? Why can't Britain notify the EU that UK will no longer honor any EU commitments/rules? Many in Parliament have rejected her exit plans so far. Do those who reject the exit plan expect the EU to continue to honor their side while UK no longer honors theirs?
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:19 AM
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It can, but that would mean that UK would be independent from a multinational organization that has its own constitution, "commissars" and common policies that don't always go in favor of all members....and we obviously can't have that happen now can we? Instead, the referendum results will be essentially ignored and this status quo will last until it is decided that there will be no brexit.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bizerta View Post
Do those who reject the exit plan expect the EU to continue to honor their side while UK no longer honors theirs?
Perhaps, yes, some of them do expect that. But the UK has been grudgingly forced to honor its commitments. The most recent extension to the Brexit process, for example, requires the UK to do things like hold elections to the European Parliament if it is to remain in the EU into the term of the next Parliament.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 04-12-2019 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bizerta View Post
When I leave an organization, I usually walk away and don't look back. Sometimes I'll tell them that I am leaving, return items belonging to them, and/or will no longer pay dues, etc.

Why does May need an exit plan? Why can't Britain notify the EU that UK will no longer honor any EU commitments/rules? Many in Parliament have rejected her exit plans so far. Do those who reject the exit plan expect the EU to continue to honor their side while UK no longer honors theirs?
Are you part of any organizations that pay large parts of your salary? And at the same time are one of the main places you buy stuff? Will any organization you are part of take some of your furniture if you leave? Do you have a property dispute at your summer cottage that has only been resolved in part by your membership in the organization, and no idea how to broker an alternative deal that doesn't lead to bloodshed?

Those who reject the exit plan either hope the Leavers will give up, hope a magical better deal will materialize or are too stupid/cynical to see the problems of a no-deal brexit.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:40 AM
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The UK simply walking away from the EU amounts to a no-deal Brexit and there are many threads here that talk about what that means. Among other things, it probably means a hard border with Ireland (and the lack of a hard border is a big reason there's been peace there) and it means that all trade with the EU has to go through customs. That would greatly slow imports and exports. In short, it would be a mess.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:50 AM
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The UK simply walking away from the EU amounts to a no-deal Brexit and there are many threads here that talk about what that means. Among other things, it probably means a hard border with Ireland (and the lack of a hard border is a big reason there's been peace there) and it means that all trade with the EU has to go through customs. That would greatly slow imports and exports. In short, it would be a mess.
That, and the fact that it would mean we essentially have NO trade agreements with the EU, meaning we'd need to revert to unfavourable WTO trade agreements. We'd be financially screwed, and our supermarket shelves would dry up pretty bloody quickly. There's a reason some people are stockpiling food, and drugs.

It would be World War 2 on the home front all over again.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:59 AM
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Somewhere I heard that a delay of even a minute or so at the ports to clear trucks through customs would mean backups of hours, because there is so much shipping between the UK and the rest of the EU.
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:01 AM
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The UK simply walking away from the EU amounts to a no-deal Brexit and there are many threads here that talk about what that means. Among other things, it probably means a hard border with Ireland (and the lack of a hard border is a big reason there's been peace there) and it means that all trade with the EU has to go through customs. That would greatly slow imports and exports. In short, it would be a mess.
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Somewhere I heard that a delay of even a minute or so at the ports to clear trucks through customs would mean backups of hours, because there is so much shipping between the UK and the rest of the EU.
This is the thing. The no-deal Brexit is exactly what OP postulates. What it means then is that until/unless the Brits come up with a deal, their citizens have no more right to travel to the EU than members of Nigeria or Bhutan, until the EU updates their rules. now consider the tens of thousands such situations - agricultural products, manufactured goods, copyright... incoming shipments must then clear customs just like stuff shipped from Uruguay. What forms need to be filled out? Nobody knows, because nobody from Britain had to fill out those forms before.

Part of the UK and Irish agreement entering the EU was that there would be essentially zero border hassles between Ireland and Northern Ireland. Now these two will be two separate countries with no agreement between them any more. Does this mean they need to put up customs stops between the two? Or maybe leave things as they are and have an internal customs wall between Northern Ireland and the rest of Britain?

If the UK decides to simplify things by meeting the same health and safety standards for say, food or electrical goods or chemicals, who certifies this? Does EU take the word of British inspectors or would Britain pay for U inspectors to nose around its industry? Now of course, if they chose to match EU product regulations, they have essentially agreed to meet guidelines in which they have no say.

one of the most contentious areas of EU policy is agriculture - protecting their farmers. hey have no incentive to protect or give preference to UK farmers any longer. What are the implications for that?

the EU, too, is not motivated to make things easier for Britain leaving, after all, why encourage other countries by showing it's easy? Make if difficult and disruptive for Britain. Even when they want to cooperate, countries can take years to reach mutual trade agreements. Britain is way too late to this party.

As you can see, the implications of leaving without a deal are complex and highly disruptive. It makes an acrimonious divorce look simple.

Last edited by md2000; 04-12-2019 at 10:01 AM.
  #9  
Old 04-12-2019, 10:18 AM
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That, and the fact that it would mean we essentially have NO trade agreements with the EU, meaning we'd need to revert to unfavourable WTO trade agreements.
True. And so would the EU.

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We'd be financially screwed, and our supermarket shelves would dry up pretty bloody quickly.
Since we're in GQ, can you provide a cite for that? According to local businesspeople with whom I've spoken, post-Brexit trade is simply not seen as a problem.

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It would be World War 2 on the home front all over again.
As I've said before, it's statements like that that helped Leave win the referendum. But we've been through all that in other threads.

Right now, the real issue appears to be the ongoing uncertainty. Businesses can cope with in or out but they need to know which it is going to be.
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:25 AM
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This is the thing. The no-deal Brexit is exactly what OP postulates. What it means then is that until/unless the Brits come up with a deal, their citizens have no more right to travel to the EU than members of Nigeria or Bhutan,
This is not a problem.

Quote:
until the EU updates their rules. now consider the tens of thousands such situations - agricultural products, manufactured goods, copyright... incoming shipments must then clear customs just like stuff shipped from Uruguay. What forms need to be filled out? Nobody knows, because nobody from Britain had to fill out those forms before.
Not with respect to Europe but the UK is a trading nation and that's not a problem. Allow me to quote a letter from the Telegraph:

Quote:
Telegraph letters 2019-02-23

SIR I run and own two companies, one in the United States and one in Britain. We frequently ship products to and from countries all over the world under World Trade Organisation protocols, and experience no problems. The tariffs vary from zero to about 4 per cent.

We have to answer three questions. What the goods are; what we are charging for them; and what the country of origin is. It takes about two minutes to fill in the form on the internet when we book a shipment. All shipping agents provide this service. There are no delays.

I cannot understand why there is all this talk of chaos if we leave the EU without a deal.

John Kirby
Managing Director, Kirby Devon
Yealmpton, Devon
  #11  
Old 04-12-2019, 10:52 AM
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Even between the USA and Canada with a fairly comprehensive free trade deal, the amount of paperwork required is significant. At one point, they were fining truckers substantial amounts if their import documents were not faxed to the border point at least 12 hours before the truck arrived. I suspect Mister Kirby does not fill in the forms himself and has someone who takes care of shipping and knows what forms to fill. IIRC, typically in Canada they use bonded warehouses to ship to the USA - i.e. the load is checked and certified during loading and thus does not need to be opened and inspected at the border. that sor of infrastructure does not exist n the UK - even the border points don't exist - because they haven't needed it to now.

Last edited by md2000; 04-12-2019 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:40 AM
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The UK has treaty obligations as an EU member, and simply repudiating them would be a breach of international law. This would expose the UK to sanctions (and, obviously, the EU is big enough and near enough to apply sanctions that would be quite effective in bringing home to the UK the unwisdom of such behaviour). And of course it would create lasting ill-will from the EU. Equally importantly, this would trash the UK's reputation as a trustworthy international player. Why would any country make treaties with the UK if the UK holds itself free to disregard its treaty obligations? For these reasons the UK government has never, even in its wildest moments, considered leaving the EU other than by following the leaving processes provided in the Treaties.

Note that this is different from a no-deal Brexit. The Treaties provide for notice of intention to leave to be served, for a two-year negotiation period (which may be extended by agreement) and eventual departure, ideall on agreed terms but, if no agreement can be reached, then without agreement. That would be a no-deal Brexit, and it would not be illegal. But simply walking away without serving notice, and without waiting for the period stipulated in the Treaties to expire, and without any attempt to agree the terms of departure, would be a breach of treaty obligations.
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:58 AM
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that sor of infrastructure does not exist n the UK - even the border points don't exist - because they haven't needed it to now.
Northern Ireland aside, of course it does. We have ports and customs checks and everything. So does Europe. But the UK government have been very clever: the responsibility for taxes, duties, and so on is on the recipient. Plus random checks, of course. And don't forget that containers and vehicles get checked for illegal immigrants too. And since everything is computerised these days, I'm told it's really not a logistical problem. The goods get checked in and the computers calculate all relevant duties and taxes.

Brexit may or may not be a disaster, but logistics and import taxes and duties aren't an issue.
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:00 PM
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The UK has treaty obligations as an EU member...

Note that this is different from a no-deal Brexit...
Well said.
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:02 PM
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Even between the USA and Canada with a fairly comprehensive free trade deal, the amount of paperwork required is significant. At one point, they were fining truckers substantial amounts if their import documents were not faxed to the border point at least 12 hours before the truck arrived.
Does anybody still use fax?
I haven't seen one come into the office in years.
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:03 PM
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Not with respect to Europe but the UK is a trading nation and that's not a problem. Allow me to quote a letter from the Telegraph:
Well, it's good to know that you'll have plenty of tablet counters in November 2019.
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:03 PM
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My opinion on a no-deal Brexit for what it's worth and it should be noted, I'm not economist, just a dabbler. It would be painful, but not catastrophic. I think a recession is essentially a guarantee. The pound would likely devalue by quite a bit. Imports would cost significantly more. But in the relatively near term, I think that the devalued pound would actually make service industries more likely to relocate to the UK. If the US were to enter into a mostly free trade deal with the UK which our Dear Leader seems to at least hint at, then that would be a game changer. The UK could end up very well off when all is said and done. If the UK can negotiate better terms than the EU which seems extremely likely with Trump in office and I would even wager likely regardless of who is in office, it positions the UK as a link between Europe and the US that would be very attractive to multinationals. The reality is that the EU and the UK are going to negotiate a trade deal sooner or later. There's too much trade between them to stunt it for any real length of time. I can't imagine that by 2030 there wouldn't be a trade deal in place. The question becomes how much does it hurt in the meantime and how generous a US-UK trade deal is. If the cards fall correctly, the UK could end up very much better off after a no-deal exit. Of course, if they don't... Regardless, it would certainly be much, much better to have a deal in place. It would blunt many of the recession effects and provide stability.
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:08 PM
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The EU officials say, "we value the business we do with Britain, but we value the integrity of the Single Market even more. If necessary we can survive no-deal - you won't."
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:21 PM
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We've drifted from the question in the OP and UDS's answer nailed it.
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:19 PM
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Well, it's good to know that you'll have plenty of tablet counters in November 2019.
John Kirby is a titan of industry!

He's not - here's his company accounts history
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history

A worthy, but small, business and I'm not sure his letter to the Telegraph really is a GQ-level cite.
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:29 PM
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Does the UK produce all of its food domestically? How much does it import from Europe? How much other products, and which ones?
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:48 PM
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It's never been self-sufficient in food, even during the war when it would have been desirable.
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:50 PM
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John Kirby is a titan of industry!
He did not present himself as one. Nor did I.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:14 PM
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Does the UK produce all of its food domestically? How much does it import from Europe? How much other products, and which ones?
I believe something like 40% of our food is imported, but disruption of those imports is likely to deplete available foods by more than the raw percentage, simply because some of those imported foods are ingredients in manufactured food products.
If one ingredient for a product is out of supply, and can't be substituted, the product can't be made.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:18 PM
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Does the UK produce all of its food domestically? How much does it import from Europe? How much other products, and which ones?
My pleasure, sir

50% imported (net), 30% being from the EU. That's net of the food we export. Not exactly sure what it is that we export in the way of food. And I'll edit myself and withhold the smart alec comment I was going to make.

3.4 shows that we import vastly more than we export.

j
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:47 PM
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He did not present himself as one. Nor did I.
Then why have you posted his letter - and not for the first time either - as if it is in any way significant? He's a small business owner, a business that makes a low-volume niche product. That's not where the problems are going to arise.
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:04 PM
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When I leave an organization, I usually walk away and don't look back. Sometimes I'll tell them that I am leaving, return items belonging to them, and/or will no longer pay dues, etc.

Why does May need an exit plan? Why can't Britain notify the EU that UK will no longer honor any EU commitments/rules? Many in Parliament have rejected her exit plans so far. Do those who reject the exit plan expect the EU to continue to honor their side while UK no longer honors theirs?
Right now, the UK can simply walk away from the EU. It has served its 2-year notice period as set out in the Lisbon Treaty and it is completely free to leave at any time.
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Old 04-12-2019, 06:21 PM
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It would be World War 2 on the home front all over again.
Well, not quite that bad. Unless Germany decides to renew the bombing and rocket attacks.....
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:56 PM
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A no-deal Brexit would mean that Canada has better access to the EU than Britain, because Canada spent five years negotiating CETA (the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement) with the EU.

I read a (probably) far-fetched proposal that one way for the UK to get access to the EU after Brexit would be for the UK to join Canada as four new provinces. I suspect that this would cause Quebec to freak out
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Old 04-13-2019, 03:50 AM
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Then why have you posted his letter
Because it is evidence. A cite. We are in GQ, remember?

Quote:
He's a small business owner, a business that makes a low-volume niche product.
And there are tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands of small businesses up and down the country. And they make up the bulk of the economy. As Napoleon said, the UK is a nation of shopkeepers.
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Old 04-13-2019, 04:09 AM
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It can, but not without humongous harm. We'd be wiping out all our present trade agreements (not just with the EU, but with the world), and causing hundreds of tariffs to spike up for imports and exports, and instantly loading insane amounts of red tape on business. We'd become a hugely unattractive place to do business.

Small businesses will be hurt the most from it, as they tend to trade mostly with Europe, if it all, as our largest and nearest trading bloc. Large corporations can weather the storm better, but they'll still be hurt, or simply leave.

What's more, if we simply opted for No Deal, then all that would happen is that the UK would descend into chaos and malaise, and when we emerged to seek a new trade deal with the EU, the EU will simply dust off the Withdrawal Agreement and tell us to sign that first before they discuss trade.

No Deal is pointless and harmful.
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Old 04-13-2019, 04:30 AM
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John Kirby is a titan of industry!
Actually, the contempt you demonstrate is, IMHO the reason we're in this mess in the first place. It's easy to listen to XYZ Megacorp, but they're not the bulk of the economy. IMHO the UK and EU elites behaved exactly like you: utter contempt for the little guy. And so the little guys and girls hit back the only way they could, with the ballot.

I was wrong by an order of magnitude about small businesses. There are 5.6 million small businesses, though if you exclude those which do not employ, you're down to 1.4 million (note that the 4.2 million may sub-contract). SMEs are 99.3 % of all businesses, 52% of private sector turnover, and 60% of the private sector workforce. Click the link for more.
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:12 AM
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IMHO the UK and EU elites behaved exactly like you: utter contempt for the little guy. And so the little guys and girls hit back the only way they could, with the ballot..
I never got this whole narrative about the Pro-EU elites. I mean... have you seen the politicians and millionaires who actually fought for Brexit? Not a single one of them has had to change a lightbulb with their own hands in their lives.
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:18 AM
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So far, the Brexit Party's MEP candidates include:

- Nigel Farage, estimated net worth 2.5mln who recently had a birthday party in the Ritz;
- CEO of First Property Group;
- CEO of real estate investment group Quidnet Capital LLP;
- Annunziata Rees-Mogg

True working class heroes ready to give the establishment a kicking.
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:28 AM
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I never got this whole narrative about the Pro-EU elites. I mean... have you seen the politicians and millionaires who actually fought for Brexit? Not a single one of them has had to change a lightbulb with their own hands in their lives.
You've clearly not hear of the term 'Champagne Socialists' who also have never had to change a light bulb with their own hands.
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Old 04-13-2019, 06:01 AM
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You've clearly not hear of the term 'Champagne Socialists' who also have never had to change a light bulb with their own hands.
I have. But my point was never to say that the Remain side lacked their own Etonians... just that for such an anti-elite movement, it seems to be suspiciously directed by the Rees-Moggs and the Boris Johnsons.
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Old 04-13-2019, 06:28 AM
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I have. But my point was never to say that the Remain side lacked their own Etonians... just that for such an anti-elite movement, it seems to be suspiciously directed by the Rees-Moggs and the Boris Johnsons.
Johnson is, of course, the grandson of a refugee immigrant.
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Old 04-13-2019, 06:52 AM
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Johnson is, of course, the grandson of a refugee immigrant.
Hell, he himself is a refugee, emigrating from the deadly wasteland of upper New York, but that doesn't make him less of an Eton boy.
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:54 AM
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Then why have you posted his letter
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
Because it is evidence. A cite. We are in GQ, remember?



And there are tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands of small businesses up and down the country. And they make up the bulk of the economy. As Napoleon said, the UK is a nation of shopkeepers.
OK then, I'll say it.

Later revised upwards to 5.6 million small businesses. Of which one wrote to the Telegraph to say that leaving the EU without a deal would not present it with major problems. Correct?

Yep, it's evidence.

j
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Old 04-13-2019, 11:10 AM
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I was wrong by an order of magnitude about small businesses. There are 5.6 million small businesses, though if you exclude those which do not employ, you're down to 1.4 million (note that the 4.2 million may sub-contract). SMEs are 99.3 % of all businesses, 52% of private sector turnover, and 60% of the private sector workforce. Click the link for more.
What percentage of the UK's import/export business is done by small/medium enterprises, versus large businesses?

Your link says that nearly a quarter of SMEs are in the construction field, e.g.; I'm guessing that relatively few of those are importing directly from Europe or elsewhere, but that a huge percentage rely upon parts and materials imported by other larger wholesalers. Do you have statistics to confirm or rebut that?
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Old 04-13-2019, 11:16 AM
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What percentage of the UK's import/export business is done by small/medium enterprises, versus large businesses?
Not a clue.

Quote:
Do you have statistics to confirm or rebut that?
Sorry, again I have no idea.
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Old 04-13-2019, 12:06 PM
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Yep, it's evidence.
It exists therefore it is evidence. One is enough.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:21 PM
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It's not so simple


The Leavers post a rosy picture of the UK turning its back on the EU and returning to a 1950s-like never-never land of imperial prosperity. In all of this, the EU is conflated with institutions such as the European Parliament and the Council of Europe. The happy assumption is that all power will rerurn to the Mother of All Parliaments.

It ain't necessarily so. The UK would not have full sovereignty over its own affairs unless it repudiates the EU Parliament and all the pan-European legislation. Among other things, this would mean abrogating various human rights treaties. But that is just the political, legal and judicial level. And it is noteworthy that the EU has pushed through a great deal of legislation concerning the environment, human rights and social welfare generally, legislation that the member countries did not or would not pass. The UK's record in such matters is in fact little short of deplorable, so a Brexit means that the Brits are at the mercy of the hard heart of Westminster. Will Britain pass equivalent legislation to maintain legal parity with the EU? I'm not holding my breath.

Now the trade side. This is where you can see that Farage and the Leavers are in urgent need of a class in remedial economics. Currently Britain can trade with any EU country on the same basis, this would apply if more countries join the EU. After a Brexit it will be necessary to conclude trade contracts with every single EU member country. Tiresome, but it gets worse. Industry and agriculture within Europe are very much interlinked nowadays, thanks to the EU, so a Brexit immediately causes problems for manufacturing industry and the food processing industry. The UK always has been a net importer of food, so it will have to pay more for that in the future. Other sources? Possibly North America, but US food regulations are very lax by EU standards, and there is the distance factor.

I suppose the Leavers think that British farmers will now be free of bureaucracy and can feed the great British populace both cheaply and profitably. While Britain does not export a huge amount of food, what is does is mainly specialty products rather than staples, which are more profitable. Net result; the Germans have to pay more for shortbread, the British have to pay more for wine. This is beneficial to all concerned?

Leaving the EU will be expensive as it is, but there are two more factors. London is a major financial center, but many companies are pulling out and basing themselves in the EU. The British market is nowhere as big as the EU as a whole, and this applies to everything. Hence it will not be attractive to investors. China in partocular is looking for somewhere to park its money in investments, and the UK would be the first choice if it is in the EU. If not, then the money will go elsewhere.

That just leaves two very interesting questions, Northern Ireland and Scotland. Both benefit hugely from Britain being in the UK. What will they then want to do after a Brexit? Indeed, it could lead to a breakup of the United Kingdom.

In short, a country cannot simply walk away from its commitments, and the arguments posted by the Leavers show a remarkable lack of awareness for anything other than their own very narrow and blinkered views, with no understanding of the issues involved and the likely consequences.
  #44  
Old 04-15-2019, 08:51 PM
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Now the trade side. This is where you can see that Farage and the Leavers are in urgent need of a class in remedial economics. Currently Britain can trade with any EU country on the same basis, this would apply if more countries join the EU. After a Brexit it will be necessary to conclude trade contracts with every single EU member country. Tiresome, but it gets worse.
Countries outside the EU negotiate trade treaties with the EU, not with countries within it, so in fact the UK would have to have a trade treaty with the EU, as a whole.

I suspect both the EU and UK would want to do that very quickly as they have huge trade flows between them, but very quickly in terms of agreements means, oh shall we say, a couple of years. In fact very like the time it has already taken to get to an agreement that isn't being accepted by the UK Parliament.
  #45  
Old 04-16-2019, 12:35 AM
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More to the point, Brexit would require us to make separate trade deals with all the other countries with which we currently have a deal as members of the EU.

And what sort of terms would those other countries expect from a partner that flounces out of a deal without any realistic plan to replace it? Chlorinated chicken would be the least of it.

(And in general, what damage is already being done to our credibility in any sort of international agreement?)

Last edited by PatrickLondon; 04-16-2019 at 12:37 AM. Reason: Predictive text has Brecht for Brexit! "Alienation effect" indeed.
  #46  
Old 04-16-2019, 01:58 AM
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Countries outside the EU negotiate trade treaties with the EU, not with countries within it, so in fact the UK would have to have a trade treaty with the EU, as a whole.
Individual EU members can have their own trade treaties too, but it simply makes more sense to negotiate in bulk when you can.
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  #47  
Old 04-16-2019, 04:06 AM
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Individual EU members can have their own trade treaties too, but it simply makes more sense to negotiate in bulk when you can.
I am afraid you err on this, the European Commission has exclusive competence for the Common Commercial policy (as well as the Common Agricultural policy, Fisheries policy, Transport policy, Competition rules and Rules governing the free movement of goods, persons, services and capital). Individual EU members can NOT have their own trade treaties. The rules were designed to prevent a foreign power to try divide et impera.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:24 AM
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For the Common Commercial policy yes. But it is possible to have trade policies which cover items not included in the Common Commercial policy. It also does not eliminate, nor prevent the renewal of, treaties of which the members were already a party at the time of joining.
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:03 AM
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For the Common Commercial policy yes. But it is possible to have trade policies which cover items not included in the Common Commercial policy. It also does not eliminate, nor prevent the renewal of, treaties of which the members were already a party at the time of joining.
That is not the way I understand it, can you provide a quote? Because as you state it, if a third State had a more favourable regime with one Member State than with the rest of the EU (on customs duties, say) nothing would prevent that third State to conduct all the trade with the EU through that Member State. The single market would then give that third State access to all other EU Member States with more favourable, thus unfair conditions. That seems to me to be the kind of discrimination the European Court of Justice has repeatedly ruled against. The Common Commercial policy covers trade agreemens in their entirety, where have you found a loophole?
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:12 AM
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I can tell you that Spain has several treaties with Morocco and with Latin American countries which involve specific items (very specific items), terms of stay, benefits… which do not obligate other EU member countries at all; some of those involve things for which EU member countries are obligated with each other. And that most of those predate Spain's entry in the EU. But unless you want to prepare my data clean files that I really should be working on, no, I don't plan on dredging up timelines for each of those. Note that we'd be the/a main port of entry for a lot of that stuff anyway, just for geographical reasons.
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