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  #51  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:43 AM
dalej42 dalej42 is online now
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Corbyn continues his lunacy by seeming to rule out a Norway style option for Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...e_iOSApp_Other

This man lives in a bizarre unicorn fantasy world. All he believes is that hard left anti-EU nonsense spewed by Tony Benn and ilk during the 1970s.
  #52  
Old 05-15-2018, 12:01 PM
CarnalK CarnalK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
Corbyn continues his lunacy by seeming to rule out a Norway style option for Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...e_iOSApp_Other.
And if you read past the title:
Quote:
Several Labour MPs in the room said Corbyn had not been definitive in his opposition to EEA membership, and did not categorically rule it out, but Mann said the strength of feeling in the room from other speakers against the option had “killed it off”.

“It was more than half the people that spoke, it was quite a significant moment in my view,” Mann said. “It was people who have not spoken out before, from areas like mine. They have never voted in favour of Brexit before, they voted remain.”
  #53  
Old 05-15-2018, 12:25 PM
dalej42 dalej42 is online now
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I did read the entire article, but Corbyn has always seemed quite set in his ways. I don't think he thinks in what might be right for the UK or understands that politics is the art of the possible. I see him patting MPs on the head that disagree with him and then plotting his revenge on those that dare to have other opinions.
  #54  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:13 PM
dalej42 dalej42 is online now
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Good! Corbyn suffers yet another rebellion over his Brexit foolishness. It’s time for another leadership challenge.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/eu...-rebellion-and
  #55  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:29 AM
Quartz Quartz is offline
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Just as the Tories are gearing up for one too.
  #56  
Old 06-14-2018, 05:00 AM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is offline
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It’s time for another leadership challenge.
I think the election method Labour currently uses is highly unlikely to produce any other result.
  #57  
Old 06-14-2018, 06:08 AM
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Today's Telegraph cartoon describes May as 'near extinction'.

So who would replace Corbyn? And how would they fare against May's likely successor, Javid?
  #58  
Old 06-14-2018, 06:15 AM
Novelty Bobble Novelty Bobble is offline
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I confess, as bumbled as the Tory end vision for Brexit is, as least I can sort of understand what they are aiming for. The Lib-Dems even more so.

Labour? not a bloody clue, and every time Keir Starmer explains it I think I lose a little more brain-matter. I think their policy-making unit is based on riddle of the the two guards. Except, instead of a tiger behind one of the doors there is a coherent Brexit policy and there are three doors not two, and two of them are guarded by John McDonnell and Diane Abbot, Diane always tells the truth as Jeremy would see it and John always tells a lie but that is actually the fault of the capitalist running-dogs and so what he actually says is true. The third door is locked and Jeremy had the key in his cardigan but that on the nail in the shed in his allotment.

There are plenty of competent politicians in Labour's ranks that the wider voting public would listen to and warm to. Unfortunately none seem be in charge.
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  #59  
Old 06-14-2018, 07:13 AM
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I confess, as bumbled as the Tory end vision for Brexit is, as least I can sort of understand what they are aiming for.
I can sum up May's (lack of) vision in one word: fudge.
  #60  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:15 AM
Novelty Bobble Novelty Bobble is offline
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I can sum up May's (lack of) vision in one word: fudge.
The Lib Dem's would be a box of Thornton's continentals, Labour's would be.....?

....I'm struggling here .......Licorice allsorts? 4oz of chocolate limes? (a combination that makes no sense and was clearly designed by committee)
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  #61  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:18 AM
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Deep fried Mars Bar? Oh wait, that's the SNP.
  #62  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:21 AM
Novelty Bobble Novelty Bobble is offline
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Deep fried Mars Bar? Oh wait, that's the SNP.
Perhaps it is Schroedinger's cake. One that is both eaten and uneaten at the same time.
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  #63  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:38 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Just as Corbyn is simultaneously both the next Prime Minister and someone who will never, ever hold that office?
  #64  
Old 06-14-2018, 11:07 AM
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and someone who will never, ever hold that office?
We can but hope.
  #65  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:09 PM
dalej42 dalej42 is online now
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The current state of UK Politics is maddening. I think Labour did about as well as they possible could under Corbyn at the last general election. Exceeding expecations (and a horrible Tory campaign with magic money trees) is nice, but it doesn't get you into power. Labour needs to take to more seats in Scotland, and unless the SNP implodes, I don't see that happening. Meanwhile, the divisions in Labour continue to get worse as it is almost impossible to remove Corbyn, maybe it really is time for a party split even if it ends up just like the SDP did.
  #66  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:49 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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...Labour needs to take to more seats in Scotland....
I don't quite get this.
  #67  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:39 PM
dalej42 dalej42 is online now
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I don't quite get this.
It's a typo. Labour needs to win more seats in Scotland to have any chance of winning a general election.
  #68  
Old 06-14-2018, 04:48 PM
Quartz Quartz is offline
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It's a typo. Labour needs to win more seats in Scotland to have any chance of winning a general election.
Actually, no they don't. Blair won without Scotland, for instance. Seats in Scotland help, of course, but the SNP has co-opted the socialist Left and the Tories up here are to the left of Westminster and are explicitly the Unionist party so Labour need to give some really good reasons for people to vote for them.
  #69  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:35 AM
Stanislaus Stanislaus is offline
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Originally Posted by Novelty Bobble View Post
I confess, as bumbled as the Tory end vision for Brexit is, as least I can sort of understand what they are aiming for.
Totally agree with what you say about Labour, but quoting this bit in the hope of enlightenment!

As far as I can see, some Tories want something like no deal/hard Brexit/"the EU can go whistle" while others are rebelling to vote for EEA membership and/or the chance to force the government to abandon no-deal at the last minute. In between is May, who tacks to one side or the other dependent on who's threatened to resign most recently. I've got no idea what "the Tories" as a single entity want.* What do you see their end goal as?


*(The question of whether they can get is a whole other can of worms, of course.)
  #70  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:08 AM
Novelty Bobble Novelty Bobble is offline
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What do you see their end goal as?
As I think Theresa may said in March, out of the single market, out of the customs union, new trade deals with the rest of the world and a new agreement to engage with Europe. Free movement and immigration comes under full UK control.
That's my understanding of it anyway. There are some in the party that are wanting it to be a bit softer, some that are holding her to those promises and that's where the friction is currently playing out.

Labour? those frictions seem to be as deep if not deeper and I can't easily decode exactly what the party line is in practical terms.
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  #71  
Old 06-15-2018, 09:07 AM
Stanislaus Stanislaus is offline
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As I think Theresa may said in March, out of the single market, out of the customs union, new trade deals with the rest of the world and a new agreement to engage with Europe. Free movement and immigration comes under full UK control.
That's my understanding of it anyway. There are some in the party that are wanting it to be a bit softer, some that are holding her to those promises and that's where the friction is currently playing out.

Labour? those frictions seem to be as deep if not deeper and I can't easily decode exactly what the party line is in practical terms.
Ye-es - but with all the recent talk about "a" customs "partnership" which would have the same practical effect as being in the customs union, vs a "max fac" technology option which would mean actually having different customs rules, it's not clear what the actual aim is - maximum alignment with EU, at the cost of rule-taking, or more friction at the borders but greater freedom to make customs policy. Until we know which way they're going to jump on that, "out of the customs union" is a fudge. Which is fine, up to a point, but that point is fast approaching.

(You can say the same about "out the single market" - there has been talk of aligning standards to meet e.g. Rules of Origin requirements, but I've no idea if anyone's actually decided on that.)

Labour, AFAIK, are officially saying that they want "a" customs union, but out the single market and no FoM. Plus it'll be "jobs-first", whatever that means. But where they or the Tories actually plan to end up is anyone's guess.
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