#1  
Old 10-22-2015, 06:57 PM
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Positive Gun News of the Day

Negative gun news gets quite a bit of attention in media and on this board. There's a whole thread in the Pit that is over 6,200 posts and counting. This is a thread to bring up another aspect of gun ownership - positive news. I post it in this forum instead of in the Pit since it really is not any kind of statistical analysis, just mindless data points to share. Hopefully people can add their own positive news items relating to firearms.

I'll start with two items:

Brian Fletcher receives a pardon after being arrested for possessing a firearm while doing disaster relief work in NJ. An article talking about the original incident:
Quote:
A North Carolina man doing emergency, storm-related utility repairs in Mercer County last month is facing possible prison time after volunteering to a police officer in Hamilton that he had a handgun in his vehicle.
And the pardon itself.

Christie issued 2 other pardons that day as well for similar silly violations.


In other news, a would be robber was shot and killed as he attempted to rob a Waffle House:
Quote:
The Waffle House crew was busily going about its typical early-morning ritual — smothering and scrambling breakfast, clanking through the dirty dishes — when a robber jolted them out of their routine.

A customer decided he was having none of that and opened fire in the North Charleston eatery, thwarting the holdup Saturday by fatally shooting the suspect.

The young man who tried to rob the restaurant was rushed to Medical University Hospital, but he later died, police spokeswoman Angela Johnson said.

The intervening customer, who has not been identified, had a permit to carry a pistol, authorities said.
  #2  
Old 10-22-2015, 08:06 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is online now
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Hmm, I wonder if someone is trying to shore up his presidential run?

Did the customer have a "Bad Mother Fucker" wallet (but skipped the religious experience in the morning)?
  #3  
Old 10-22-2015, 08:29 PM
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I'm glad he got pardoned but it is weirdly ignorant to think it was OK to carry a gun across state borders without worry. The North East is "notoriously liberal" and anti-gun after all. Seems like maybe gun owners should take at least as tough a test as car drivers need to get a license and this type of stuff could be covered in it. Not exact rules for 50 states but that guns laws are at a state level and you should check before bringing loaded guns to other states.
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Old 10-22-2015, 11:20 PM
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Homeowner shoots and kills 2 possible intruders in SE Albuquerque
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A homeowner shot and killed two people Monday just before 10 p.m. near Gibson and Washington SE.

...

"I heard somebody go in the house and I thought it was the cops, but after that, I heard the three shots and I dove on the ground because I didn't know…" Duran said.
He and his wife, Geraldine, were among the first to check on their neighbor immediately after the shooting.
"We just heard the gunshots and we…got curious because we heard somebody crying. So I climbed up on the stairs to look over the fence to see who was crying, if they needed some help."
The Durans said that a woman at the house and the homeowner were both in tears.
"There was a gentleman standing at the doorway and I said, 'are you guys ok?'" Duran said. "And he said, 'I had to shoot them…I didn't want to shoot them, but they were breaking down my door…so I shot them,' and he was crying."
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Old 10-22-2015, 11:39 PM
Esox Lucius Esox Lucius is offline
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...while doing disaster relief work in NJ.
That is both misleading and wrong. There was no life-threatening disaster, just storm-related outages. He wasn't a good Samaritan volunteering his own time to alleviate human suffering. He was hired to do rather routine repairs, that's all.

I don't know what New Jersey law calls for in a case like this, but on the surface, I agree that arresting and jailing him was unnecessarily harsh, and if justice were to be served, he'd get some sort of recompense for it. But there's no reason to falsely win more sympathy for him, especially when he was naive and/or stupid in not knowing the law.
  #6  
Old 10-22-2015, 11:39 PM
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Two blocks from my house there is (or possibly was, it's not clear if they are going to be back in business) a small shop selling scooters (not sure what kind of scooters, it's a tiny shop that I never noticed). Last Sunday at 8:00 am four guys tried to break in and steal stuff. Unfortunately for them, the owner was there and armed. He shot and killed one of them; the others ran and escaped.

No cite because the case is still open and the police aren't saying anything. But I saw the incident tape when I drove by a little later, and the store is now boarded up. I got the details from our local Nextdoor board, and to some extent it was confirmed last night at our neighborhood police liaison meeting.

I completely sympathize with anyone who has to shoot another human being to protect his life, or his family, or even his livelihood.
  #7  
Old 10-22-2015, 11:59 PM
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The other day, I shot a soft rubber ball (about the size of a billiard ball) off the top of a beer bottle, without hitting/breaking the bottle, at a range of about 60 yards with my .22 Glenfield. Took two shots at it. Nailed it the second shot. I was shooting clay targets that somebody left up on the hill from the same range, but it started getting too easy. And I never have a shortage of beer bottles.

Positive news to me, at least!
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
Negative gun news gets quite a bit of attention in media and on this board. There's a whole thread in the Pit that is over 6,200 posts and counting. This is a thread to bring up another aspect of gun ownership - positive news. I post it in this forum instead of in the Pit since it really is not any kind of statistical analysis, just mindless data points to share. Hopefully people can add their own positive news items relating to firearms.

I'll start with two items:

Brian Fletcher receives a pardon after being arrested for possessing a firearm while doing disaster relief work in NJ. An article talking about the original incident:

And the pardon itself.

Christie issued 2 other pardons that day as well for similar silly violations.


In other news, a would be robber was shot and killed as he attempted to rob a Waffle House:
One slight problem with your "Good Gun News" -

The Would be robber was "armed with a pistol".
In other words - he threatened the staff with a gun, whereupon he was shot...

So I'd like to know - how is a 19 year old racist having access to a gun, and trying to use said gun to rob a store good news?

Quote:
According to a NCPD incident report released Monday afternoon, Davis approached the bar area and asked the price of a drink. Employees noticed he had his jacket hood up over his head with the drawstrings pulled tight around his face. They told police he went to sit in a booth and when several of the employees went to the back, he came around the counter armed with a gun and demanded money.


Seems to me rather like saying,
Well damn, he did a pretty good job or rushing me to the hospital after running me down while speeding and driving drunk in a school zone
  #9  
Old 10-23-2015, 02:46 AM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is online now
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Racist?

A 19 year old can own, just can't purchase from a FFL.
  #10  
Old 10-23-2015, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
Racist?

A 19 year old can own, just can't purchase from a FFL.
Yes - he tweeted a picture with a gun and something about Nigga a few days prior to the robbery attempt
  #11  
Old 10-23-2015, 07:30 AM
Razncain Razncain is offline
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Originally Posted by bengangmo View Post
One slight problem with your "Good Gun News" -

The Would be robber was "armed with a pistol".
In other words - he threatened the staff with a gun, whereupon he was shot...

So I'd like to know - how is a 19 year old racist having access to a gun, and trying to use said gun to rob a store good news?
I thought the whole point was that an armed customer that had a permit for it prevented the armed robber from harming anyone else by shooting him.
  #12  
Old 10-23-2015, 07:46 AM
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So I'd like to know - how is a 19 year old racist having access to a gun, and trying to use said gun to rob a store good news?
He won't be doing it again?
  #13  
Old 10-23-2015, 09:16 AM
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Kind of offensive to list the deaths of people as "good news" even if the dead were pricks. I thought gun people were all about, "gosh, I sure hope I never have to use my weapon."

How would we feel about a Positive Abortion Stories thread.
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Old 10-23-2015, 09:25 AM
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From my perspective, the only positive news in this entire thread is Gatopescado's. When I saw the thread title, I was trying to think what I would consider positive gun news, and came up with target shooting and successful legal hunting of non-endangered animals.

People dying prematurely and violently, even if they were in the process of committing a crime, is not positive, it's a tragedy. We do not have the death penalty for burglary, and I don't even think it's appropriate for armed robbery. People who might have had a chance at being a positive influence in the world are dead. Their families are mourning them. There's nothing positive about that.

Last edited by SpoilerVirgin; 10-23-2015 at 09:26 AM.
  #15  
Old 10-23-2015, 09:28 AM
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Robbery Attempt At Light Rail Station Backfires When Would-Be Victim Gets The Gun
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Denver police say James Arellano, 21, from Westminster, had a gun and smacked a victim on the head while attempting to rob a man and woman on the C line after first harassing a pair of teenagers.

Investigators say Arellano was with another young man during the robbery attempt.

“One of the victims is struck by the suspects … with the gun,” Christine Downs with Denver police said.

The victims ran from the train at the Auraria West light rail station platform. Police say Arellano fired his gun three times at close range at his victims, but missed and then the victims fought back.

While the male victim scuffled with Arellano the gun fell to the ground and the female victim shot Arellano. He suffered injuries not considered to be life-threatening.
...
Arellano faces three charges including robbery, felony menacing and possession of a weapon.
Robbery suspect shot with his own gun - that he wasn't legally able to possess.

***
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Originally Posted by kayaker View Post
He won't be doing it again?
Bingo.
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Old 10-23-2015, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Esox Lucius View Post
That is both misleading and wrong. There was no life-threatening disaster, just storm-related outages. He wasn't a good Samaritan volunteering his own time to alleviate human suffering. He was hired to do rather routine repairs, that's all.
If I said he flew in on the back of a unicorn while spreading good will with the Care Bears, that would also be misleading and wrong. But since I didn't state that there was a life threatening disaster, or that he was volunteering, your assessment isn't on point.
  #17  
Old 10-23-2015, 09:53 AM
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We do not have the death penalty for burglary, and I don't even think it's appropriate for armed robbery. People who might have had a chance at being a positive influence in the world are dead.
Whether we have the death penalty for those crimes or not doesn't matter. People who want to be a positive influence in the world can start with an easy one: Don't commit crimes, especially violent crimes, against other people. From there, they can move on to feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and so on. See how that works?
  #18  
Old 10-23-2015, 10:22 AM
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Don't commit crimes, especially violent crimes, against other people.
Is that what you'd tell that vigilante?
  #19  
Old 10-23-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jack Batty View Post
Kind of offensive to list the deaths of people as "good news" even if the dead were pricks. I thought gun people were all about, "gosh, I sure hope I never have to use my weapon."

How would we feel about a Positive Abortion Stories thread.
For the most part we are "gosh, I sure hope I never have to use my weapon." But because mass murderers and common criminals are so often used as examples of why I shouldn't have a firearm, I don't see any harm in someone giving examples of why I possibly should have one.

And while specific examples elude me this AM, there have been several examples of Positive Abortion Stories given here over the years. Not in a dedicated thread, I will admit, but people giving examples of why they made that choice and the benefit they felt it brought.
  #20  
Old 10-23-2015, 11:29 AM
Esox Lucius Esox Lucius is offline
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Originally Posted by Bone View Post
If I said he flew in on the back of a unicorn while spreading good will with the Care Bears, that would also be misleading and wrong. But since I didn't state that there was a life threatening disaster, or that he was volunteering, your assessment isn't on point.
Call me crazy, but "disaster relief worker" implies to me someone who works to relieve the suffering of people caused by a disaster. They often selflessly volunteer to do it because there aren't enough people with the official job description of "disaster relief worker". I suppose some could infer it to mean a selfish mercenary profiting from the misfortune of others, but to each his own subjective interpretation.

Regardless of what it means to anyone, there was no disaster; ergo, there was no disaster relief; ergo, he wasn't a disaster relief worker, so why did you refer to him as one? I assume you didn't see him as a selfish mercenary.
  #21  
Old 10-23-2015, 11:31 AM
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Is that what you'd tell that vigilante?
A vigilante that did act by taking the law in his own hands, but also followed the law. Don’t think he broke any, did he?
  #22  
Old 10-23-2015, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Esox Lucius View Post
Regardless of what it means to anyone, there was no disaster; ergo, there was no disaster relief; ergo, he wasn't a disaster relief worker, so why did you refer to him as one? I assume you didn't see him as a selfish mercenary.
Did you read the article?
Quote:
Fletcher is a co-owner if a company that upgrades and repairs cell towers and he is sometimes hired to do disaster relief work for AT&T through a local company in North Carolina.

The only other time he was in New Jersey was to do similar work after Superstorm Sandy in 2012, he said.

Fletcher said he is not given much time to get to a location and has to pack up and leave rapidly. In late June he received a call to go to New Jersey, following thunderstorms that caused outages.
From another article:
Quote:
When Brian Fletcher mobilized his men to head up to New Jersey, he did what any law abiding gun owner in North Carolina would do when heading into unknown territory – bring his legally obtained pistol. The mission? Disaster relief for Trenton, New Jersey. According to Fletcher, him and his entire team had less than an hour to get their equipment together and proceed north. And in almost all the states in the Southeast, he would have been perfectly fine bringing his firearm with him.
From another article:
Quote:
On the night of June 28, Brian was waiting in a parking lot with his men and trucks to await further word on the next tower. A New Jersey police officer pulled up behind his truck and inquired as to what he was doing. According to Fletcher, they discussed the disaster relief work and so forth. It was then Fletcher handed over his ID and did what any law abiding citizen of North Carolina would do (N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.12A.) – inform the officer that he had a firearm in his vehicle.
First off, I didn't refer to him as a "disaster relief worker". I said he was doing disaster relief work. Not sure why I thought he was doing disaster relief work. Oh that's right, because he was.
  #23  
Old 10-23-2015, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
Robbery Attempt At Light Rail Station Backfires When Would-Be Victim Gets The Gun


Robbery suspect shot with his own gun - that he wasn't legally able to possess.
Sounds like this is a bit of Negative Gun News. Because, you know, it doesn't seem like the fact that he wasn't legally able to possess a gun was much of an impediment to his becoming a Bad Guy With A Gun.
  #24  
Old 10-23-2015, 01:43 PM
SpoilerVirgin SpoilerVirgin is offline
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Whether we have the death penalty for those crimes or not doesn't matter.
It matters to my assessment of what news I consider to be positive. People being killed is not something that I consider to be positive, even if they are committing crimes. I see these situations as tragedies all the way around -- I don't celebrate the fact that that the crime ended in the death of the perpetrator.

I should add that this assessment has nothing to do with the fact that a gun is involved. I wouldn't consider it positive news if someone killed a burglar with a knife, or a knitting needle, or by pushing him down the stairs.

Last edited by SpoilerVirgin; 10-23-2015 at 01:44 PM.
  #25  
Old 10-23-2015, 07:51 PM
Esox Lucius Esox Lucius is offline
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Originally Posted by Bone View Post
Did you read the article?
From another article:

From another article:

First off, I didn't refer to him as a "disaster relief worker". I said he was doing disaster relief work. Not sure why I thought he was doing disaster relief work. Oh that's right, because he was.
No matter how many people call a dog's tail a leg, it still isn't a leg. There was no disaster, period. Show us the devastation and human suffering that all the media slept through. The only reason to call him a disaster relief worker--pardon me, that he was doing disaster relief work--is to create more sympathy for him than he deserves.

Did you read the article? It says, as you yourself quoted, "he is sometimes hired to do disaster relief", not that he was in this case, because he wasn't. I guess you just forgot to highlight "sometimes". Your other two links are to the same slanted story. One site just copied the other verbatim but you quoted different parts so it looks like two separate stories. Any other cheap stunts you want to perform for us?

What I really fail to see is how a guy who gets into trouble by not bothering to learn the law is a good gun story. Even more to the point, as it's already been pointed out by a few other posters, how is killing people, for whatever reason, good?
  #26  
Old 10-23-2015, 07:59 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is online now
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Yes - he tweeted a picture with a gun and something about Nigga a few days prior to the robbery attempt
I didn't see that, but you know that he was black, right?
  #27  
Old 10-23-2015, 09:04 PM
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The only other time he was in New Jersey was to do similar work after Superstorm Sandy in 2012, he said.
I wonder if he broke the law that time too.
  #28  
Old 10-23-2015, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Batty View Post
Kind of offensive to list the deaths of people as "good news" even if the dead were pricks. I thought gun people were all about, "gosh, I sure hope I never have to use my weapon."

How would we feel about a Positive Abortion Stories thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoilerVirgin View Post
From my perspective, the only positive news in this entire thread is Gatopescado's. When I saw the thread title, I was trying to think what I would consider positive gun news, and came up with target shooting and successful legal hunting of non-endangered animals.

People dying prematurely and violently, even if they were in the process of committing a crime, is not positive, it's a tragedy. We do not have the death penalty for burglary, and I don't even think it's appropriate for armed robbery. People who might have had a chance at being a positive influence in the world are dead. Their families are mourning them. There's nothing positive about that.
This line of thinking baffles me. I feel exactly the opposite. The tragedy isn't in the violent death that was the deserved conclusion of their miserable scumbag existence while in the act of committing or attempting to commit a violent crime against innocent people, it's the process that led them to that way of thinking and acting.
  #29  
Old 10-24-2015, 01:20 AM
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What I really fail to see is how a guy who gets into trouble by not bothering to learn the law is a good gun story. Even more to the point, as it's already been pointed out by a few other posters, how is killing people, for whatever reason, good?
The good part of the story is not that the person violated the asinine laws of NJ, but that he received a pardon. Your second question was answered in post #12.

***

One other semi-related note I forgot to mention, or maybe I remembered but thought it was too old. Another pardon in NJ, Shaneen Allen.
Quote:
Shaneen Allen, 27, was pulled over in Atlantic County, N.J. The officer who pulled her over says she made an unsafe lane change. During the stop, Allen informed the officer that she was a resident of Pennsylvania and had a conceal carry permit in her home state. She also had a handgun in her car. Had she been in Pennsylvania, having the gun in the car would have been perfectly legal. But Allen was pulled over in New Jersey, home to some of the strictest gun control laws in the United States.

Allen is a black single mother. She has two kids. She has no prior criminal record. Before her arrest, she worked as a phlebobotomist. After she was robbed two times in the span of about a year, she purchased the gun to protect herself and her family. There is zero evidence that Allen intended to use the gun for any other purpose. Yet Allen was arrested. She spent 40 days in jail before she was released on bail. She’s now facing a felony charge that, if convicted, would bring a three-year mandatory minimum prison term.

Allen was also pardoned earlier this year.
And that's positive news.
  #30  
Old 10-24-2015, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Bone View Post
The good part of the story is not that the person violated the asinine laws of NJ, but that he received a pardon. Your second question was answered in post #12.

***

One other semi-related note I forgot to mention, or maybe I remembered but thought it was too old. Another pardon in NJ, Shaneen Allen.


Allen was also pardoned earlier this year.
And that's positive news.
So the positive news is that many gun owners are ignorant of the laws about carrying guns and sometimes their ignorance is at least allowed for? Or are you secretly campaigning for much better required training before people are permitted to carry guns in any state. If so I applaud you.
  #31  
Old 10-24-2015, 11:40 AM
SpoilerVirgin SpoilerVirgin is offline
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This line of thinking baffles me. I feel exactly the opposite. The tragedy isn't in the violent death that was the deserved conclusion of their miserable scumbag existence while in the act of committing or attempting to commit a violent crime against innocent people, it's the process that led them to that way of thinking and acting.
I would agree that the process that led to an individual becoming a criminal is tragic.

But I strongly disagree that violent death is a deserved conclusion. This is what I meant when I said that we don't have the death penalty for burglary (here in California, the death penalty is only for murder or treason). And I can't possibly say that someone had a miserable scumbag existence because of one criminal act. I guess dehumanizing people as scumbags makes it easier to justify killing them, but to me the violent death of a human being is still tragic.
  #32  
Old 10-24-2015, 12:41 PM
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But I strongly disagree that violent death is a deserved conclusion. This is what I meant when I said that we don't have the death penalty for burglary (here in California, the death penalty is only for murder or treason). And I can't possibly say that someone had a miserable scumbag existence because of one criminal act. I guess dehumanizing people as scumbags makes it easier to justify killing them, but to me the violent death of a human being is still tragic.
Even in CA, the law recognizes a person's ability to defend themselves or others with force including deadly force if necessary. So while we don't have the death penalty for burglary, it is a recognized possibility that the law sanctions when it involves a person defending themselves or others.

In other news - SANTA ANA HOMEOWNER WITH MARTIAL ARTS TRAINING FENDS OFF INTRUDERS

Quote:
Dumaual said two burglars came into his bedroom through an open sliding door, pointed a gun at his head and demanded money.

"Fifty-fifty, it was a struggle. I didn't know whether I was going to die," Dumaual said.

Wanting to protect his sister and his 14-year-old nephew in the house, Dumaual took action.

"I saw the gunman turn his head, I attacked. I went for the gun. I have training in Krav Maga, so it didn't scare me at all," Dumaual said.

Dumaual pushed the gunman against a window, shattered the glass, and then took the fight outside.

After fending off both men, he took the gun. One suspect ran, but the one who lost the gun wanted to keep fighting.

"He never fired a shot on me, but I took that gun and he was going for that gun again, so I had to defend myself," Dumaual said.

He shot the suspect in the leg, when the man tried to run. Dumaual pushed him into the pool and told him to stay put. When the suspect jumped out of the pool, Dumaual shot him again.

"He wanted to run," Dumaual said. He said the suspect kept saying, "I'm sorry," and tried to flee.

"No, you're staying right here buddy. So I tried to subdue him even more," he said.
And to head off the questions about what is the positive news here, the known gang member with a long criminal record was able to get a gun! The positive news is that the homeowner was able to defend himself, and turn the tables on the people attacking him.
  #33  
Old 10-24-2015, 12:48 PM
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Note that the trained martial artist used the gun once he had possession of it.
  #34  
Old 10-24-2015, 03:19 PM
Esox Lucius Esox Lucius is offline
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The good part of the story is not that the person violated the asinine laws of NJ, but that he received a pardon. Your second question was answered in post #12.
Like I said before, the police reaction was excessively harsh, and I assume that's why Christie pardoned them, not because the law is asinine. It's there for a reason that you're not acknowledging. Who knows how many New Jersey deaths have been prevented because of the law? If New Mexico had a similar law, maybe the four-year-old girl killed in the road rage shooting would still be alive.

Now, what about the fair-and-balanced ConcealedNation.com article describing Brian Fletcher as doing disaster relief work? Do you still think he was?
  #35  
Old 10-24-2015, 03:35 PM
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Now, what about the fair-and-balanced ConcealedNation.com article describing Brian Fletcher as doing disaster relief work? Do you still think he was?
You've offered nothing that is persuasive to change the position I stated in post #22. I actually don't care since it's a hijack, but NJ was clearly facing severe storm damage at that time and both the Office of Emergency Management and FEMA were involved with the State Police. You could make a claim that the storm response wasn't as swift if an actual state of emergency was declared, but I think that's besides the point. Fletcher was asked to go to NJ as part of his job, he was arrested on non violent gun related charges that would not be a crime in his home state, and he was pardoned. Those are the salient facts of this story. Not quite sure why you're interested in the other minutiae - don't mistake this for thinking I want to know because I don't.
  #36  
Old 10-24-2015, 06:17 PM
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...that would not be a crime in his home state...
Why does that matter? He wasn't in his home state.

Last edited by Dag Otto; 10-24-2015 at 06:18 PM.
  #37  
Old 10-24-2015, 06:37 PM
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You've offered nothing that is persuasive to change the position I stated in post #22. I actually don't care since it's a hijack, but NJ was clearly facing severe storm damage at that time and both the Office of Emergency Management and FEMA were involved with the State Police. You could make a claim that the storm response wasn't as swift if an actual state of emergency was declared, but I think that's besides the point. Fletcher was asked to go to NJ as part of his job, he was arrested on non violent gun related charges that would not be a crime in his home state, and he was pardoned. Those are the salient facts of this story. Not quite sure why you're interested in the other minutiae - don't mistake this for thinking I want to know because I don't.
He is interested because the gun owner is always wrong, no matter what. ALWAYS.
  #38  
Old 10-24-2015, 06:49 PM
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From my perspective, the only positive news in this entire thread is Gatopescado's.
I'd say it's positive news that neither the homeowners being intruded upon nor the employees of the restaurant were shot or killed by the bad guys.

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But I strongly disagree that violent death is a deserved conclusion. This is what I meant when I said that we don't have the death penalty for burglary (here in California, the death penalty is only for murder or treason).
There is absolutely no way to know what's going to happen once someone has broken into your home or pulled a gun in a robbery. This is why shooting robbers and intruders is justified. Too many times the victims in such circumstances are murdered to eliminate witnesses, and/or to prevent the victims from calling the police in order to assure maximum time to get away. It isn't that the robbers "deserve" being killed even though they haven't killed anybody (yet), it's that by their actions they've placed innocent people in jeopardy of their lives. In other words, self-preservation (for themselves or to protect employees and patrons in the case of workplace shootings) is the reason for their being killed, not because the particular crimes they committed or are trying to commit warrant it on their own.
  #39  
Old 10-24-2015, 06:58 PM
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People dying prematurely and violently, even if they were in the process of committing a crime, is not positive, it's a tragedy.
Agreed it's tragic but it is certainly a better outcome than the alternative where the perpetrator is successful and/or harms innocent people. Wouldn't you agree?
  #40  
Old 10-25-2015, 01:33 AM
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It matters to my assessment of what news I consider to be positive. People being killed is not something that I consider to be positive, even if they are committing crimes. I see these situations as tragedies all the way around -- I don't celebrate the fact that that the crime ended in the death of the perpetrator.

I should add that this assessment has nothing to do with the fact that a gun is involved. I wouldn't consider it positive news if someone killed a burglar with a knife, or a knitting needle, or by pushing him down the stairs.
You must be really bummed out by the tens of thousands of people who die every single year in car accidents.
  #41  
Old 10-25-2015, 11:13 PM
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Agreed it's tragic but it is certainly a better outcome than the alternative where the perpetrator is successful and/or harms innocent people. Wouldn't you agree?
Not necessarily -
A life vs losing the money in the till to a fuckwit thief?

Between the two I know which I would choose - even if it was my personal money
  #42  
Old 10-26-2015, 11:53 AM
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Four arrested after home invasion, fatal shooting in Pembroke Pines

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Three men entered the home through an unlocked front door.

As a couple in one bedroom was being robbed, another resident looked out a window and saw an armed man, his face covered with a bandana, standing outside, according to a Pembroke Pines police report.

The resident fired a Glock pistol through his apartment window, striking Milot Desir, 23, of Miramar, who fell down a flight of stairs, police said.

Milton Pouchon Desir, 20, of Miramar, and Eddrick Lee Butler, 21, and Cleveland Glover, 23, both of Hallandale Beach, drove the wounded Milot Desir to Memorial Hospital West in Pembroke Pines, where he was declared dead. The Desirs are brothers, according to police.
4 people planned a home invasion and ends with all suspects apprehended or dead and no other injuries. Sounds pretty positive to me.
  #43  
Old 10-26-2015, 12:13 PM
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Not necessarily -
A life vs losing the money in the till to a fuckwit thief?

Between the two I know which I would choose - even if it was my personal money
The problem is that handing over the money to the robber in no way guarantees your safety. He may well kill you to eliminate witnesses or just out of spite.
  #44  
Old 10-26-2015, 05:23 PM
Esox Lucius Esox Lucius is offline
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You've offered nothing that is persuasive to change the position I stated in post #22. I actually don't care since it's a hijack, but NJ was clearly facing severe storm damage at that time and both the Office of Emergency Management and FEMA were involved with the State Police. You could make a claim that the storm response wasn't as swift if an actual state of emergency was declared, but I think that's besides the point. Fletcher was asked to go to NJ as part of his job, he was arrested on non violent gun related charges that would not be a crime in his home state, and he was pardoned. Those are the salient facts of this story. Not quite sure why you're interested in the other minutiae - don't mistake this for thinking I want to know because I don't.
You also don't want to know why the New Jersey law was enacted. You're content to call it asinine just because it's a restriction on guns, period.

You don't get to post a propagandized story from a partisan website and not expect to be called out on it, not on this board. If you're having trouble explaining how power outages are a disaster, try contacting the writer at ConcealedNation.com. A responsible, objective journalist such as he should welcome a chance to justify his choice of words.
  #45  
Old 10-26-2015, 06:29 PM
Common Tater Common Tater is offline
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Originally Posted by bengangmo View Post
Not necessarily -
A life vs losing the money in the till to a fuckwit thief?
Between the two I know which I would choose - even if it was my personal money
Would you shoot to kill in order to protect life from an armed robber?
  #46  
Old 10-26-2015, 08:37 PM
bengangmo bengangmo is offline
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Would you shoot to kill in order to protect life from an armed robber?
If I'm "protecting life" it's not an armed robber but a murderer. In that situation yes.
Between killing someone and the $200 or $300 in the till (or my wallet), no I wouldn't shoot to kill.
  #47  
Old 10-26-2015, 08:41 PM
SpoilerVirgin SpoilerVirgin is offline
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You must be really bummed out by the tens of thousands of people who die every single year in car accidents.
Well I certainly consider those deaths to be tragic, and I wouldn't include them in a thread called Positive Car News of the Day.

Come to think of it, I am strongly opposed to drunk driving, and have posted it about it numerous times on this board, mostly to cite the positive statistics about the massive decline in drunk driving deaths in the U.S. since 1980. So while you can't live life being depressed by every death that happens, I do care about those deaths in the aggregate, and I do take time to be saddened for a moment by tragic incidents such as the one that took place in Oklahoma on Saturday.

Last edited by SpoilerVirgin; 10-26-2015 at 08:42 PM.
  #48  
Old 10-26-2015, 08:59 PM
Starving Artist Starving Artist is offline
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If I'm "protecting life" it's not an armed robber but a murderer. In that situation yes.
Okay, so let's say a guy breaks into your home or walks into your place of business, points a gun at you, and says "Give me all your money."

After you've given him all your money one of two things will happen. He will leave you in peace or he will kill you, either to make sure there's no witness or because he's overcome by holding the power of life and death in his hands, and, being the loser he undoubtedly is, decides to exercise a little power for once in his life and shoots you to death, just because.

Now at just what point did he switch from being a robber to being a murderer? And since you're now dead because you valued his life more than your money and thought he was only a robber, how to you propose to then overcome your reluctance and decide to kill him because he's suddenly turned from being a robber into being a murderer and it therefore became necessary for you to 'protect life' and kill him?

Last edited by Starving Artist; 10-26-2015 at 09:03 PM.
  #49  
Old 10-27-2015, 10:32 AM
Common Tater Common Tater is offline
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If I'm "protecting life" it's not an armed robber but a murderer. In that situation yes. Between killing someone and the $200 or $300 in the till (or my wallet), no I wouldn't shoot to kill.
Yes, but that's a distinction without a difference, as someone mentioned earlier there's no way to tell beforehand what someone's intentions are. By definition an armed robber is already threatening your life, you think? "Give me your money, or I'll kill you." They are willing to murder at one level, at least in principle. If not, they are certainly willing to convey that image. One of the more aggravating weasel phrases one will hear in the press goes something like "A robbery gone bad", as if there is some kind of official protocol to these things and if nobody gets hurt it's just another day that ends in Y.

This is why not very many are going to get too spooled up about it, if the perpetrator is harmed or killed, so much the better to this line of thought.
  #50  
Old 10-27-2015, 11:28 AM
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The robber in the Waffle House story was leaving and was shot in the doorway by a guy in the parking lot who had been out there watching the whole thing. The real positive news is that this guy shot into a restaurant full of people and only hit the bad guy.
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