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  #401  
Old 05-25-2018, 12:49 PM
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Trump doesn't give a shit if the USA is better or worse off; he sees his job as enriching himself.
I doubt that he is unable to imagine acting differently.
  #402  
Old 05-25-2018, 03:10 PM
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Trump reminds me of a guy who, after one coffee date and dozens of requests asking for a real one, says "I think we should see other people."
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:04 PM
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Trump reminds me of a guy who, after one coffee date and dozens of requests asking for a real one, says "I think we should see other people."
I never thought that I would post something in favor of Donald Trump, but I believe that is unfair.
  #404  
Old 05-26-2018, 09:12 AM
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More 'winning'


https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/26/polit...ies/index.html

On a personal note, it makes me sick to see the perennial draft evader speaking at my alma mater (in the video on that page, which doesn't appear to have the slightest thing to do with the story).

He was guaranteed a friendly reception (else he wouldn't have spoken there), because no one would dare protest the Commander-in-Chief, even if he's a sleazebucket.
  #405  
Old 05-26-2018, 09:27 AM
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Not yet, but wait until he invades Belgium.
  #406  
Old 05-28-2018, 03:28 PM
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North Korea really wants this meeting. Trump's opening play to walk away lead to North Korea saying we still want to meet and dynamiting their nuclear mountain.

There could be an excellent economic opportunity here. South Korea's organization combined with North Korea very cheap labor could be a winner for the USA. Let them make the cheap goods that China sells to us.

China doesn't trade fair, okay, we'll buy from someone else who can while at the same time offering a safer world if North Korea agrees to give up is nuclear ambitions. A win-win. North Korea is very poor, they need jobs and $

To sweeten the deal for Mr. Kim, why not a month's vacation for a Korean delegation at one of Trump's golf courses. Koreans love golf, you know.

Last edited by Silver lining; 05-28-2018 at 03:30 PM.
  #407  
Old 05-28-2018, 06:46 PM
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Sounds so simple.
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:57 PM
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They're going to make some agreement that does nothing and isn't enforceable. Trump will claim that he initiated world peace in our time. His supporters will clamor for him to win the Nobel Prize. Rational people will point out that the agreement doesn't do anything. Trump supporters will yell "fake news".
  #409  
Old 05-28-2018, 08:07 PM
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I never thought that I would post something in favor of Donald Trump, but I believe that is unfair.
Explain, please, Sir Plant.
  #410  
Old 05-28-2018, 08:54 PM
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Explain, please, Sir Plant.
I don't believe that he will invade Belgium. Poland, maybe.

Last edited by carnivorousplant; 05-28-2018 at 08:55 PM.
  #411  
Old 05-28-2018, 09:17 PM
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Belgium, France, we still got the maps.
  #412  
Old 05-29-2018, 02:33 PM
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North Korea really wants this meeting. Trump's opening play to walk away lead to North Korea saying we still want to meet and dynamiting their nuclear mountain.

There could be an excellent economic opportunity here. South Korea's organization combined with North Korea very cheap labor could be a winner for the USA. Let them make the cheap goods that China sells to us.

China doesn't trade fair, okay, we'll buy from someone else who can while at the same time offering a safer world if North Korea agrees to give up is nuclear ambitions. A win-win. North Korea is very poor, they need jobs and $

To sweeten the deal for Mr. Kim, why not a month's vacation for a Korean delegation at one of Trump's golf courses. Koreans love golf, you know.
So few words, so many fact-free assertions. They dynamited their nuclear mountain after Trump walked away, when everyone who pays attention to anything, including this thread, knew the mountain was collapsing weeks, or even months ago.
  #413  
Old 05-30-2018, 06:20 AM
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So few words, so many fact-free assertions. They dynamited their nuclear mountain after Trump walked away, when everyone who pays attention to anything, including this thread, knew the mountain was collapsing weeks, or even months ago.

The Koreans could have used the destruction of the mountain as part of the T's and C's of the deal. By destroying it after Trump's initial walk away, I think it was a positive sign they are ready to make a deal.

Once this historic meeting happens, it will be interesting to see how the left accepts it.

The time for change is now, and the right president who understands peace is best made through strength ( Like Reagan ) is directing it.
  #414  
Old 05-30-2018, 06:31 AM
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The Koreans could have used the destruction of the mountain as part of the T's and C's of the deal. By destroying it after Trump's initial walk away, I think it was a positive sign they are ready to make a deal.

Once this historic meeting happens, it will be interesting to see how the left accepts it.

The time for change is now, and the right president who understands peace is best made through strength ( Like Reagan ) is directing it.
"Once this historic meeting happens"...is when the fun really begins.
  #415  
Old 05-30-2018, 10:50 AM
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The Koreans could have used the destruction of the mountain as part of the T's and C's of the deal. By destroying it after Trump's initial walk away, I think it was a positive sign they are ready to make a deal.
Or it was a little theater to cover the little problem that they'd already destroyed it during their last test. They couldn't use it anymore anyway. Might as well make the best of it.
  #416  
Old 05-30-2018, 07:29 PM
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Even if they really did demolish it (there was no real verification of the state of the tunnels before the demolition, or that the whole thing was rigged with explosives, or that the tunnels were inaccessible after the blast), unilaterally destroying evidence is not necessarily something to view as a concession.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 05-30-2018 at 07:32 PM.
  #417  
Old 05-30-2018, 07:50 PM
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Even if they really did demolish it (there was no real verification of the state of the tunnels before the demolition, or that the whole thing was rigged with explosives, or that the tunnels were inaccessible after the blast), unilaterally destroying evidence is not necessarily something to view as a concession.
Kim probably stuffed it full of relatives before he lit the fuse.
  #418  
Old 05-30-2018, 09:17 PM
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Seriously, a country can test nukes wherever the hell they want. The only significance of the mountain is that it was a secret nuke site. It gave them some cover. They could find another mountain in which to dig tunnels and rig nuclear explosives. It's not that hard, not a big deal. We're gullible if we really and truly believe that he's de-nuking because of an abandoned test site. It's no different than an abandoned mine. Just build another. Within months.
  #419  
Old 05-31-2018, 12:44 AM
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The Koreans could have used the destruction of the mountain as part of the T's and C's of the deal. By destroying it after Trump's initial walk away, I think it was a positive sign they are ready to make a deal.
Did you miss, yet again, that the mountain was already destroyed? This shit has already been covered, do keep up.

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Once this historic meeting happens, it will be interesting to see how the left accepts it.
Given Trump's "amazing" deal making, I'm guessing Trump Tower Pyongyang will be a go, and we'll be providing nuclear weapons TO North Korea.

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The time for change is now, and the right president who understands peace is best made through strength ( Like Reagan ) is directing it.
"Strength" - along with illegal weapon sales to terrorists, senility, and yelling about walls. Sounds delightful.
  #420  
Old 05-31-2018, 12:52 AM
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Did you miss, yet again, that the mountain was already destroyed?
That's not really known. Part of it collapsed, but we don't know how much. It could have just been one of the cavities where a detonation occurred, leaving the rest of the complex intact. (Mind you, we also don't know what they demolished.)

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 05-31-2018 at 12:54 AM.
  #421  
Old 06-01-2018, 02:27 AM
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The Koreans could have used the destruction of the mountain as part of the T's and C's of the deal. By destroying it after Trump's initial walk away, I think it was a positive sign they are ready to make a deal.

Once this historic meeting happens, it will be interesting to see how the left accepts it.

The time for change is now, and the right president who understands peace is best made through strength ( Like Reagan ) is directing it.
You really are hook, line, and sinker, aren't you?

Strength through ignorance, you mean. That never goes wrong.

Tell me about how pulling out of the Iran agreement advanced peace.
  #422  
Old 06-05-2018, 04:28 PM
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Kim's buddy the worm Dennis Rodman will be in Singapore next week. Probably a publicity stunt. But maybe Kim will have lunch with Dennis.
  #423  
Old 06-05-2018, 04:58 PM
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Kim's buddy the worm Dennis Rodman will be in Singapore next week. Probably a publicity stunt. But maybe Kim will have lunch with Dennis.
Does Dennis stand for the National Anthem?
  #424  
Old 06-05-2018, 07:09 PM
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Seriously, a country can test nukes wherever the hell they want.
Give the devil their due, they are testing this stuff in their own back yard as distinct from say Bikini Atoll, Maralinga and Moruroa.
So no, a country shouldn't test nukes wherever the hell they want.
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  #425  
Old 06-05-2018, 08:37 PM
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Give the devil their due, they are testing this stuff in their own back yard as distinct from say Bikini Atoll, Maralinga and Moruroa.
So no, a country shouldn't test nukes wherever the hell they want.
I believe there are treaties regarding where nuclear weapons may be tested, but I doubt that North Korea has agreed to them.
NK certainly have little space to set one off above ground.
  #426  
Old 06-05-2018, 10:41 PM
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The Koreans could have used the destruction of the mountain as part of the T's and C's of the deal. By destroying it after Trump's initial walk away, I think it was a positive sign they are ready to make a deal.
The simplest explanation would be, as has already been reported, that it collapsed and was unusable. The ceremony of "destroying it" was simply a convenient way to cover that up.

Quote:
Once this historic meeting happens, it will be interesting to see how the left accepts it.
It will be more interesting to see how the right accepts it. Because if there is a meeting, here is how it will go:
North Korea is never denuclearizing. The entertainment value will be seeing how the right tries to spin and re-spin this fact again and again. Bonus spin points if Trump makes major pre-emptive concessions (apart from, you know, finally legitimizing NK with direct bilateral talks).

And of course there's entertainment value in seeing the right abandon the talking point "We'll never talk to someone who brutally murdered his own people!" Guess what, we do, and the right has flipped toward being absolutely fine with that.
  #427  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:29 AM
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"Once this historic meeting happens"...is when the fun really begins.
Catch up, Asahi, the meeting itself is historic.

I think Trump comes away with a deal, and for the sake of unity, I hope the left can see whatever good side of the deal there is.
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Old 06-06-2018, 06:33 AM
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It will be more interesting to see how the right accepts it. Because if there is a meeting, here is how it will go:

North Korea is never denuclearizing. The entertainment value will be seeing how the right tries to spin and re-spin this fact again and again. Bonus spin points if Trump makes major pre-emptive concessions (apart from, you know, finally legitimizing NK with direct bilateral talks).

And of course there's entertainment value in seeing the right abandon the talking point "We'll never talk to someone who brutally murdered his own people!" Guess what, we do, and the right has flipped toward being absolutely fine with that.
Well, Trump and his team are not going to bend over at the waist and offer access to a 100 billion dollars. I see a de-nulearization, or agreement to stop making nukes, and perhaps a business deal. We shall is.

China is a little nervous. North Korea's very cheap labor with south Korea's know how could make a very good trading partner if you know what I mean.
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Old 06-06-2018, 06:46 AM
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Well, Trump and his team are not going to bend over at the waist and offer access to a 100 billion dollars.
What do you think North Korea wants in return for denuclearizing?
  #430  
Old 06-06-2018, 07:18 AM
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Catch up, Asahi, the meeting itself is historic.

I think Trump comes away with a deal, and for the sake of unity, I hope the left can see whatever good side of the deal there is.
At what point do you think people like you will see Trump for what he really is ... you know ... for the sake of unity?
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Old 06-06-2018, 07:22 AM
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I think Trump comes away with a deal, and for the sake of unity, I hope the left can see whatever good side of the deal there is.
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Well, Trump and his team are not going to bend over at the waist and offer access to a 100 billion dollars. I see a de-nulearization, or agreement to stop making nukes, and perhaps a business deal. We shall is.


Too bad you didn't apply the same reasoning to the Iran deal. Project much?
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Old 06-06-2018, 07:55 AM
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Catch up, Asahi, the meeting itself is historic.
In the sense that this is something that North Korea has always wanted and the US has never granted it, right? Because the stumbling block to a NK-US summit has never been "North Korea didn't want to talk leader-to-leader".


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Well, Trump and his team are not going to bend over at the waist and offer access to a 100 billion dollars. I see a de-nulearization, or agreement to stop making nukes, and perhaps a business deal. We shall is.
If you offer "North Korea agrees to abandon its nuclear weapons program within the next 2 years" as a bet to me, I'll fucking bet you my next paycheck against it. I'd hit up as many people as I could to borrow money to bet on it. I'd take out a fucking bank loan.

No, seriously, find me a bookie and we'll make it happen. Punish me for my stupidity. Put your money where your mouth is - or for the love of god stop saying such insane predictions. "Acquire nuclear weapons at all cost because if we don't we'll eventually end up being the next Sadam Hussein or Omar Qaddafi" has been North Korea's entire foreign policy strategy for the past several decades. If you believe that Trump can somehow convince them to denuclearize, then I would almost feel bad about taking your money - so I'd settle for 2:1 odds.

(Or, failing that, you could probably make a fucking killing on PredictIt or some related prediction market. Because if you offer that bet, people who actually know anything about North Korea will be laughing at you all the way to the fucking bank.)

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 06-06-2018 at 07:56 AM.
  #433  
Old 06-06-2018, 08:36 AM
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Well, Trump and his team are not going to bend over at the waist and offer access to a 100 billion dollars. I see a de-nulearization, or agreement to stop making nukes, and perhaps a business deal. We shall is.

China is a little nervous. North Korea's very cheap labor with south Korea's know how could make a very good trading partner if you know what I mean.
Slavery?
  #434  
Old 06-06-2018, 09:52 AM
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Uh... yeah... sure, whatever you say, Rudy....

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President Trump's personal lawyer said North Korean leader Kim Jong Un got "on his hands and knees and begged" for their summit to be held after Trump canceled the sit-down last month, according to a report Wednesday.

Former mayor Rudy Giuliani told the crowd at an investment conference in Israel that Kim came crawling back to the negotiating table last month after Trump scrapped the meeting....
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  #435  
Old 06-06-2018, 12:32 PM
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Does he think that Kim Jong Un has no access to western media? Does he not realize that this will now be part of the negotiating posture that NK presents? It is not a good idea to publicly belittle your adversary right before treating with them, IMO.
  #436  
Old 06-06-2018, 12:50 PM
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For someone who knows only bullying as a strategy - hell, even as a goal in itself - it's completely consistent.
  #437  
Old 06-06-2018, 08:29 PM
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Well, Trump and his team are not going to bend over at the waist and offer access to a 100 billion dollars. I see a de-nuclearization, or agreement to stop making nukes, and perhaps a business deal.
Do you not agree that the entire US motivation for this summit is to eliminate NK's ability to strike the US (and to a lesser degree Asian allies) with nuclear weapons, and any deal short of verifiable elimination of their arsenal would fail on that count?

Do you not agree that a lopsided deal would be terrible, that if Trump gives away enormous concessions in exchange for trivial or unverifiable promises, it fail to meet the top national security priority driving this meeting?

Do you not see that Trump has already made enormous concessions with no assurances - granting the Kim dynasty face-to-face talks with a US president, and cancelling the Max Thunder exercises?

If Trump gives away serious concessions - withdrawing US troops, granting a large aid package... in exchange for a sack of magic beans that don't result in denuclearization... will you agree this entire production is a farce and a charade?

Why do you expect North Korea will give up its most potent tool for survival on the word of a demonstrably unreliable, untrustworthy, and weak president?
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:42 PM
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Do you not agree that the entire US motivation for this summit is to eliminate NK's ability to strike the US (and to a lesser degree Asian allies) with nuclear weapons, and any deal short of verifiable elimination of their arsenal would fail on that count?
Yes. The entire US motivation of this summit is to stroke Trump's ego.
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:54 PM
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Yes. The entire US motivation of this summit is to stroke Trump's ego.
Well, we all know that's what Trump wants, but the stated "red line" was to protect US cities at the expense of everyone else everywhere else. Not a fan of how all this is going down, but if we're doing this, let's at least get that much done. I really like Seattle.

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  #440  
Old 06-07-2018, 10:20 AM
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Catch up, Asahi, the meeting itself is historic.

I think Trump comes away with a deal, and for the sake of unity, I hope the left can see whatever good side of the deal there is.
I keep asking myself if Kim Jung Un actually sees benefit in helping Trump, in providing political cover. It's entirely possible that he does - after all, Trump is giving the Kim regime unprecedented levels of attention of international legitimacy. But if Kim believes that there's benefit to keeping Trump around in the short term, then perhaps they strike some sort of tentative framework. A framework or a plan to denuclearize is absolutely within the realm of the possible.

But plans for a house, ain't a house. I don't see how Kim benefits from giving up the weapons that have earned him this meeting in the first place. An agreement not to produce more? Possible. Agreement to suspend missile production? Maybe. But to de-fang himself? I just don't see it.
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Old 06-07-2018, 12:45 PM
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Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick....

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President Trump on Thursday said he does not have to prepare "very much" for his high-stakes summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un because he believes "it's about attitude."

"I think I'm very well prepared," Trump told reporters during a meeting with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. "I don't think I have to prepare very much. It's about attitude. It's about willingness to get things done."...
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  #442  
Old 06-07-2018, 01:21 PM
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Kim may well want not to have to spend any more on his nuke and rocket program, just as long as he can keep them credible.

He is not going to be able to pay his own hotel bills in Singapore.
  #443  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:33 PM
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The great thing about this is that now Kim Jong Un doesn't have to wonder how unprepared Trump is: now he knows that Trump is utterly and completely unprepared.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:39 PM
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I wonder if he knows the words to Aegukka.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:50 PM
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I think this is one of those sticky issues that can be easily resolved with Trump issuing Kim's pardon. It's all about the willingness to get things done, you see.
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  #446  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:55 PM
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I just thought of this, and I admit that I'd laugh if it happened: wouldn't it be a hoot if one day Trump just up and announced that he had pardoned every citizen for everything they had done or might have done up until that point? Everyone starts with a clean slate. That'd sure fuck up the system!
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:58 PM
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I just thought of this, and I admit that I'd laugh if it happened: wouldn't it be a hoot if one day Trump just up and announced that he had pardoned every citizen for everything they had done or might have done up until that point? Everyone starts with a clean slate. That'd sure fuck up the system!
Be a bit fun, but would only work for federal crimes.

Though emptying the jails would be an improvement.
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Old 06-07-2018, 04:03 PM
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Be a bit fun, but would only work for federal crimes.

Though emptying the jails would be an improvement.
Mueller's investigation will need the space for Trump & Co.
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  #449  
Old 06-07-2018, 04:31 PM
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Whatever Trump agrees to is certain to be a much biglier believe me deal than that utter fucking hosing Obama gave Maga'ians in his agreement with Iran.
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Old 06-07-2018, 06:56 PM
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I keep asking myself if Kim Jung Un actually sees benefit in helping Trump, in providing political cover. It's entirely possible that he does - after all, Trump is giving the Kim regime unprecedented levels of attention of international legitimacy. But if Kim believes that there's benefit to keeping Trump around in the short term, then perhaps they strike some sort of tentative framework. A framework or a plan to denuclearize is absolutely within the realm of the possible.

But plans for a house, ain't a house. I don't see how Kim benefits from giving up the weapons that have earned him this meeting in the first place. An agreement not to produce more? Possible. Agreement to suspend missile production? Maybe. But to de-fang himself? I just don't see it.
Exactly all this. In fact, it may have been this thread where I pretty much said the same. It may just be Trump's specific goal to construct a nuclear "deal" he can tout as a win that isn't supposed to actually result in significant denuclearization until he's long gone (Hosanna!) and can blame any failures on his successor.

For him and Kim, that's a win/win. They both need each other's help and neither of them could give a shit about anything or anybody else. So a "deal" there will be... Except, inexplicably, it appears that John Bolton is slated to go to the talks in Singapore. He's the wild card, and he may just jump on the table and start beheading the members of his own delegation for considering a weak deal.

Should be as interesting as it is terrifying. It would not surprise me if something interferes with Bolton's ability to attend... or to ever be heard from again...

Last edited by voltaire; 06-07-2018 at 06:57 PM.
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