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  #51  
Old 02-18-2019, 05:45 PM
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Not to be cool. Honest I started when I stopped giving a damn what people thought of me. My wife has smoked since she was 16, before we got together I would on occasion as a social thing. Still I only do like 3 or 4 a day after work, and only because I like hanging out on the back porch with her looking a stars, and birds and shit. And she's smoking while we're out there so I bum one. Several times a night, every night, for like 3 years. It's part of something I enjoy. A smarter guy could work gestalt into my explanation, but I can't.
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  #52  
Old 02-18-2019, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turble View Post
... Good luck on your search for kids who vaped and chose to switch to stinky, expensive cigarettes.
Given my job, pediatrician, it isn't too hard. Pretty much that's the High School smokers now. They vaped first. And still do.

But better than my word for it is actual longitudinal data. Kids who started out with e-cigs were roughly three times more likely to be smokers a year later than those who did not.
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... Longitudinal school-based survey with a baseline sample of 2338 students (9th and 10th graders, mean age 14.7 years) in Hawaii surveyed in 2013 (time 1, T1) and followed up 1 year later (time 2, T2). ... Among T1 never-smokers, those who had used e-cigarettes at T1 were more likely to have smoked cigarettes at T2; for a complete-case analysis, adjusted OR=2.87 ...
In the meat of the article - only 2% were smokers only at the start and half of them were smokers only a year later, some became dual users. 17% of the kids vaped at the start and 20% of them were smoking too by a year later. Of smokers the vast majority also vaped and no it did not help them quit.

Also of note - this study was in Hawaii where state cigarette taxes are higher than average, $3.20/pack, 5th highest cigarette tax in the United States.
  #53  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:29 AM
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As a lifelong non-smoker who is sympathetic to smokers' rights short of the point at which they'd have the right to smoke in enclosed public areas and most workplaces, this is potentially good news. Some of my fellow um, complainers who are obsessively nostalgic for the high smoking rates of the '60s and '70s have been talking doom and gloom about what vaping will do to further stamp out smoking for years. I've never seen it that way. Living in a cold weather city, it made sense to me that most smokers would want to supplement their habit with vaping if they were faced with the choice of that or going out into the elements. Sure, as rates declined quite a few switched to vaping and never looked back. If teens are making that transition to smoking, I'm not surprised the vast majority continue to vape as well. One thing that should be studied if this is a phenomenon is how many cigarettes are smoked in a day by these "smokers", as there's a bit of difference in dependence between two packs a day smokers and two per day smokers. The link in #52 doesn't work.
  #54  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:37 AM
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I began smoking because my then-bf smoked. This was before we knew how harmful it is.
  #55  
Old 02-19-2019, 05:51 AM
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... The link in #52 doesn't work.
A try again.

Longitudinal study of e-cigarette use and onset of cigarette smoking among high school students in Hawaii
  #56  
Old 02-19-2019, 09:35 AM
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** CHECKS ZOMBIE THREAD TO SEE IF I ALREADY POSTED TO IT IN 2006 **


I started smoking because I tried a cigarette and lo and behold, nicotine feels really nice! I'd heard all about how you'd get hooked on them if you took it up, and the health risks, but no one had bothered to mention that nicotine is pleasant. I decided (in my 16-year-old wisdom) that this was a reasonable tradeoff -- who cares if it's habit forming, as long as it feels this nice who'd want to stop anyhow?

I quit about 8 years later because the truth about addiction is that you no longer get the nice feelings. You just make the craving to away for awhile. You smoke and get nothing pleasant from it (unless you count the absence of wanting your nicotine hit as "pleasant").

Wasn't easy. Took multiple attempts.
  #57  
Old 02-19-2019, 10:19 AM
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I started smoking because I tried a cigarette and lo and behold, nicotine feels really nice! I'd heard all about how you'd get hooked on them if you took it up, and the health risks, but no one had bothered to mention that nicotine is pleasant.
"People think it's all about misery and desperation and death and all that shite, which is not to be ignored. But what they forget is the pleasure of it. Otherwise we wouldn't do it. After all, we're not fucking stupid. At least, we're not that fucking stupid."

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  #58  
Old 02-19-2019, 11:02 AM
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Inspired by the Pit thread, I'm really curious. I'm a non-smoker who never even considered trying, but I can sort of understand people who started smoking before the health warnings became unambiguously dire, and before it completely lost its "I'm cool" image.

But... I can't imagine anyone taking it up after, oh, about 1980. And yet I see lots of people in their 20s who smoke. What is the appeal?
I imagine most of them are kids. And kids are dumb. I am bewildered how anyone these days would start as a full-blown adult whose brain is fully formed (we'll say 26+).
  #59  
Old 02-19-2019, 11:58 AM
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I've always thought it had to do with 3 things:

1. Presence/absence of positive or negative role models.
2. Cultural portrayal as cool, or at least accepted.
3. Attempts to look cool, usually by the opposite sex.

I never smoked because of 1 and 3. One was the constant contrast between my non-smoking parents and my grandmother who smoked 2 packs a day. Nothing like having your grandmother bake you cookies that taste great at her house, but taste like an ashtray once you get them home. Several of my friends' parents smoked, and I noticed that I stank after being at their houses.

As for #3, most of the girls I was interested in didn't smoke, and usually opined about how nasty it was.

I had friends who had the opposite- they had parents who smoked and ran in circles where smoking was common, and you looked dorky if you didn't, by girls and boys. So they smoked, and for the most part, remain smokers.

We all grew up in an era where the heroes in the old movies smoked constantly, and most of the heroes in the new movies did as well, so that was constant.
  #60  
Old 02-20-2019, 02:17 AM
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I have one you haven't considered. It's not psychological. It's not nature or nurture. It's: My family grows tobacco. I've been working with tobacco since I was eight years old. I smoke because I like to smoke tobacco. I don't quit because I don't want to quit.
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  #61  
Old 02-20-2019, 05:05 AM
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Sometimes I wish I DID smoke. Then I would quit and like clockwork, put all the money I was not spending on cigs into a savings account.
  #62  
Old 02-21-2019, 05:25 PM
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I'll propose another reason why people get addicted to smoking:

Nicotine is an anti-depressant. I suspect that there are other psycho-active chemicals in tobacco that have similar effects. I know that vaping didn't "do it" for Bob, but others that's all they need.

I'll lay odds the people who started smoking and didn't get addicted weren't dealing with depression.

I wish that the medical community would look at people who are addicted to various chemicals and - instead of pleasure-shaming them - would look at what problems those chemicals might be addressing.
  #63  
Old 02-21-2019, 05:47 PM
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Sometimes I wish I DID smoke. Then I would quit and like clockwork, put all the money I was not spending on cigs into a savings account.
But if you quit once, and then put $50/week away, then started up again and quit, would that be another $50/week? Because before too long you wouldn't be able to afford to quit!
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  #64  
Old 02-22-2019, 12:27 AM
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Given my job, pediatrician, it isn't too hard. Pretty much that's the High School smokers now. They vaped first. And still do.

But better than my word for it is actual longitudinal data. Kids who started out with e-cigs were roughly three times more likely to be smokers a year later than those who did not.
That makes complete sense, but I don't see how it contradicts the statement by a previous poster that there are fewer young people smoking cigarettes than there used to thanks to vaping. If there used to be 20% starting to smoke cigarettes, and now 20% start vaping, and out of them 10% transition to cigarettes, you still have less cigarette smokers than you used to, even though there's a high correlation between starting to vape and later starting to smoke.
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  #65  
Old 02-22-2019, 01:01 AM
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I never smokedn tobacco,,,,, but pot on the other hand I could get all I wanted to …..oly reason I didn't become a pot head is most of the ones I knew were beavis and butthead types who spent most of their day trying to get money for pot


that and my pain killers were a better buzz anyhow ….. and I liked booze better
  #66  
Old 02-22-2019, 08:02 AM
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That makes complete sense, but I don't see how it contradicts the statement by a previous poster that there are fewer young people smoking cigarettes than there used to thanks to vaping.
No, what contradicts that are the simple numbers.

Teen cigarette smoking peaked in 1997 at 36.4% and had been consistently plummeting since, two decades of dropping in a pretty straight line ... until 2014. Teen vaping among teens took off about 2014. Pretty much immediately the drop slowed down, then stopped, and is now reversing. Already.

Obviously vaping cannot take credit for the two decades plummet of teen cigarette use before teen vaping became a thing. It can however be reasonably blamed for the stop of the drop and its reversal that coincided with its taking off.

These are not teens vaping instead of smoking. These are teens vaping who otherwise would not have been getting addicted to nicotine at all and who then to no insignificant degree move into cigarette smoking as well.

Which is the pertinence to this thread: for teens today the answer to the question of the op is that it was a natural progression from vaping as it delivers a more reliably even higher hit of the drug they have become addicted to.
  #67  
Old 02-22-2019, 08:22 AM
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Because the "bad" cool kids hung out behind the convenience store next to my high school and they all smoked.

Have a friend who started smoking cigarettes so she would be more comfortable smoking pot, then shortly after stopped smoking pot, but kept smoking cigarettes for another like 10 years.
  #68  
Old 02-22-2019, 10:25 AM
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From the link by DSeid:
Quote:
This year, 8.1 percent of high school students reported smoking cigarettes, up from 7.6 percent last year, according to federal health officials, who asked not to be named because the data haven't been publicly released. The increase is not statistically significant, but it is likely to fuel growing controversy about teen use of e-cigarettes.
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
... In any case the comment I made is completely noncontroversial. ...
A little discussion of what's wrong with those numbers:
FDA has declared an epidemic of e-cigarette use by adolescents that none else has seen yet
Quote:
It is extremely important to see detailed data on the “epidemic” declared by the FDA. I emphasize that published data SHOULD include frequency of use and smoking status of e-cigarette users – and of course the prevalence of tobacco cigarette use). Everyone knows that ever e-cigarette use is simply meaningless. Current e-cigarette use is also for the most part meaningless because (until now) most of never-smoking current e-cigarette users use them for 1-2 days of the past 30 days.
  #69  
Old 02-22-2019, 11:25 AM
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My data point is that all my smoking friends (who are also Millenials, like me, so we're the "young" data set this thread is looking for), as a matter of course end up stuck in retail jobs and call center jobs far longer than we "should". You get smoke breaks in those jobs. You don't get smoke breaks if you don't smoke, because management as usual is still a bunch of idiots. As a consequence, you start smoking to get your break. All my smoking friends have said it. And when your manager also smokes, guess who has the opportunity to get chummy with the manager and then gets the raises and the promotions? The smokers. Yes, the reason why a lot of the younger generations are smoking is because of the economic recession. Funny how things work out.

Last edited by Macca26; 02-22-2019 at 11:27 AM.
  #70  
Old 02-23-2019, 07:21 AM
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Everyone knows that ever e-cigarette use is simply meaningless. Current e-cigarette use is also for the most part meaningless because (until now) most of never-smoking current e-cigarette users use them for 1-2 days of the past 30 days.
Yeah, it's not like nicotine is addictive or anything. They can quit whenever they want.
  #71  
Old 02-23-2019, 12:42 PM
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Smoking will give a kid a really good feeling. As a rule they don't start off smoking heavy so they get that cool feeling with each smoke. As the smoking increases so do the feel good effects but they are still there to some degree so we continue to smoke.
  #72  
Old 02-23-2019, 01:01 PM
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I started smoking because I couldn't stand cigarette smoke. I was working in nightclubs, and I discovered that if I smoked a cigarette before going onstage it would act as a sort-of prophylactic against the huge clouds of secondhand smoke rolling over me. Then I discovered that nicotine is a hell of a drug: it's an anti-depressant, gives you a nice buzz, and if anything improves concentration and memory. Took far too long to quit.
  #73  
Old 02-23-2019, 01:23 PM
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Smoking will give a kid a really good feeling. As a rule they don't start off smoking heavy so they get that cool feeling with each smoke. As the smoking increases so do the feel good effects but they are still there to some degree so we continue to smoke.
I'd like to think this wouldn't be so with adults, but alas I'm wrong. I wonder what would prompt a lifelong non-smoker to suddenly take up smoking at age 42, as my sister has. It troubles me.
  #74  
Old 02-23-2019, 01:44 PM
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I began smoking because my then-bf smoked. This was before we knew how harmful it is.
Wow, even before coughing up the brown oysters in the shower in the morning?
  #75  
Old 02-24-2019, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Macca26 View Post
My data point is that all my smoking friends (who are also Millenials, like me, so we're the "young" data set this thread is looking for), as a matter of course end up stuck in retail jobs and call center jobs far longer than we "should". You get smoke breaks in those jobs. You don't get smoke breaks if you don't smoke, because management as usual is still a bunch of idiots. As a consequence, you start smoking to get your break. All my smoking friends have said it. And when your manager also smokes, guess who has the opportunity to get chummy with the manager and then gets the raises and the promotions? The smokers. Yes, the reason why a lot of the younger generations are smoking is because of the economic recession. Funny how things work out.
This is really interesting, but even here, half of it seems to be "the desire to hang out with other people who are smokers."

Why people continue once they've started, I understand. It's that first cigarette / vape that I find mysterious.
  #76  
Old 02-24-2019, 02:27 PM
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I didn’t smoke until I was 21. My parents used to smoke in the car and I essentially shamed them into quitting. Imagine my surprise when I turned into a smoker.

It started when I started going to the bar. Everyone around me was smoking so I bummed one, then another, then another. Then I bought some because I didn’t think it was right to keep bumming them. Then I bought them because I was a smoker and that’s what smokers do. I made a bad choice.

I’ve made lots of bad choices in bars.
  #77  
Old 02-25-2019, 04:16 AM
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I’ve made lots of bad choices in bars.
I did as well, but I went the other direction as far as smoking goes.

When I would find myself bumming cigarettes at bars (well, izakaya drinking/eating establishments in Japan) I’d purposely buy a pack and smoke way too much. I felt worse the next day from the smoking rather than the drinking.

Oh, and I became an alcoholic so that tactic didn’t help there.
  #78  
Old 02-25-2019, 12:41 PM
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My father smoked when I was young, quit for some years, and eventually started again, and eventually stopped for good after a heart attack.
I tried it briefly in college, didn't find it remotely addictive, and gradually stopped bothering to smoke. Threw the last ones away, I think the pack was so worn-out from carrying around.
  #79  
Old 02-25-2019, 02:35 PM
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You, alright? I learned it by watching you!
  #80  
Old 03-09-2019, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
Sometimes I wish I DID smoke. Then I would quit and like clockwork, put all the money I was not spending on cigs into a savings account.
Heh. Just like Bart.

  #81  
Old 03-09-2019, 09:09 PM
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Growing up, I heard a lot about how hard it is to quit. So in 1974, I turned eighteen and decided to see for myself. Yeah, it’s hard. I quit in 1976, started again in 1977, quit again in 1983, started again in 1984, quit again in 1990, started again in 1996.

Then, in 2001, five-year old Kayla came out to the back patio where I had just lit up, gave me one of those looks that five-year olds are experts at, and said “Daddy, why do you want to die?”

That was when I put them down for good.
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