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  #201  
Old 05-07-2019, 11:20 PM
Ellis Dee is online now
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Originally Posted by enalzi View Post
So he could use the extra vote both at the initial vote and a re-vote?
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Originally Posted by Rough Draft View Post
That's my understanding, based on statements from other websites by self-proclaimed Survivor experts (who do tend to be right, generally).
That's officially confirmed, in that they broadcast a confessional with Aurora saying exactly that. Like, almost literally those exact words.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 05-07-2019 at 11:21 PM.
  #202  
Old 05-08-2019, 12:45 PM
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I saw that, but I wouldn't take something someone says in a confessional as "official confirmation" of anything. It's just Aurora's opinion, which could be wrong: people say dunderheaded things in confessionals all the time.


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Heh! I watched the most recent episode in the most haphazard and distracted way possible, so I didn't really pick up on whatever snarkworthy moments there might have been during the usual loved ones spectacle. I later found this bit about Aurora and her brother from Dalton Ross' weekly recap to be rather touching, though:

Wow.
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  #203  
Old 05-08-2019, 10:10 PM
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I saw that, but I wouldn't take something someone says in a confessional as "official confirmation" of anything. It's just Aurora's opinion, which could be wrong: people say dunderheaded things in confessionals all the time.
I don't know what you mean.

There are countless different hidden advantages they've had through the years. In every single case, the way they explain to the audience what it is and how it works is a confessional from the player who has it. Aurora has a power, and she explained a facet of how it works to the audience in a confessional.

Are you saying that for the first time in the history of the show, they broadcast a player explaining a power wrong or in a misleading way to the audience?

It's not like Jeff has ever turned to the cameras and said "And this season we planted an extra vote and a HII that you can use AFTER I read the votes. Amazing, right?" It's always and only the contestants who explain the rules to us.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 05-08-2019 at 10:12 PM.
  #204  
Old 05-08-2019, 10:40 PM
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You've never seen a confessional from a player who said "I'm going to use this HII to save myself tonight" when we in the audience know it's a fake?
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  #205  
Old 05-08-2019, 11:25 PM
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You've never seen a confessional from a player who said "I'm going to use this HII to save myself tonight" when we in the audience know it's a fake?
I have never once seen a contestant explain a rule and then that explanation turned out to be wrong. In the entire history of the show, not once.

The reason is because that's how the show explains rules to us. The contestants find advantages, read the explanation written on the back, and then they turn to the camera and explain the rules to the audience.

That's just how the show works. And because that's how it works, they would never air a contestant's explanation of a rule if it were wrong or incorrect in some way. They'd ask them to try it again, only this time explain the actual rule so the audience at home understands.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 05-08-2019 at 11:26 PM.
  #206  
Old 05-09-2019, 12:40 AM
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Maybe I'm old and jaded, but I'm so bored by the "very special journeys" of the Extinction people, with the swelling music and the staring pensively into the distance and the earnest cliches.

I did enjoy Rick scampering around, giggling and hiding from people.
  #207  
Old 05-09-2019, 03:36 AM
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Same on both counts. This episode in particular I really felt that they had their chance, they lost, they shouldn't still be here. Every single player has a free ticket to the final night just for not quitting. Lame.

Devens continues to crack me up. He's gotta win, right? If he can still use his HII next vote that gets him to final 4, and that sounds correct in terms of the last time you can use it. Possibly longer since presumably someone from extinction is cheesing their way back onto the show, so I guess maybe it's still final 6 right now?

EDIT: Rereading that, it was lost on me that the only reason Devens is still around is because of exctinction island. Without that he's not here to entertain me. It would be much better if the returning player gimmick happened somewhere around weeks 6 and 10 instead of 4 and 13 or whatever they're doing.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 05-09-2019 at 03:41 AM.
  #208  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:56 AM
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I found Devens really obnoxious last night. Different strokes, I guess.

But I really really hate that they are bringing one of the exiles back this late in the game. For all the babble about how horribly they've been suffering.... have they? I bet they've been given about the same amount of food as the actual players, and they haven't had to expend energy on the various challenges along the way.

And, majorly, most of them have been out long enough that even people they may have helped engineer the blindside of have gotten over resentments, and they've had days to weeks to hang out together and bond with the rest of the people who will be voting who gets the money. That's a HUGE advantage.

Well, for maybe everyone except Reem.

This whole season was designed to tilt the odds in favor of their handful of chosen favorites, and I think it tainted the show.
  #209  
Old 05-09-2019, 08:07 AM
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Poor Aurora. She went to the EoE and didn't even get a letter from herself.

I don't mind the game having a returnee come back to the game. But I think there should be only one returnee, and he/she comes back at the merge.
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  #210  
Old 05-09-2019, 08:55 AM
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Maybe I'm old and jaded, but I'm so bored by the "very special journeys" of the Extinction people, with the swelling music and the staring pensively into the distance and the earnest cliches.
If you pause on Wardog's letter, it's pretty funny. He crossed out the first question - "Why are you here" - and wrote in "The Wardog makes his own rules. Wardog became a way of life, a way (something), a way to stay strong and resilient."
  #211  
Old 05-09-2019, 08:59 AM
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This whole season was designed to tilt the odds in favor of their handful of chosen favorites, and I think it tainted the show.
In what way? Every contestant has the choice to go to EoE and win their way back in.

I am happy that Survivor s trying tweeks like this all the time but I have to agree with the general sentiment here: this has been dragged too long. Nobody likes a bannee get back this late in the game.
  #212  
Old 05-09-2019, 09:17 AM
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In what way? Every contestant has the choice to go to EoE and win their way back in.

I am happy that Survivor s trying tweeks like this all the time but I have to agree with the general sentiment here: this has been dragged too long. Nobody likes a bannee get back this late in the game.
Well, your second paragraph kind of answered your question.

This setup, particularly with a super-late return, is tailor-made to help a physically strong but socially weak player who would always get voted out before the end if he had to win like 5 immunity challenges in a row to get there (say, Joe or possibly Chris?). Why Probst and co. find these types of players compelling is beyond me, but clearly they do. At least with their blatant idol-hiding to help physical players the player has to be willing to put in the work instead of just laze around and win one challenge.

The only saving grace is that I strongly suspect (hope?) that the jury will understand and respect the fact that hanging out on EOE island and the getting air-dropped back in at Final 5 is not the same thing at all as either (a) surviving the whole game without getting voted out or (b) getting returned at the merge like Rick was. But my fear is that since the returnee will be someone who had the same experience the jury members did their identification with that person might outweigh their logic on who actually played the best game.

Rick could still be in a bit of trouble since his idol only saves him one more vote and there has to be at least two more votes if they return a player from EOE. He's going to need to win one more challenge or hope that the returnee is seen as an even bigger threat to win than he is (unlikely IMO).

I thought Rick played this week just about perfectly. Find an idol, make the other players work chasing you around, make it clear who you are voting for, and then give the others enough fear that they could go home to encourage them to vote with you. And, of course, don't play your idol to save Julie. The only way it could have gone better was if a few votes went to Gavin or Lauren somehow. He may have even made a bond with Julie, but I doubt that will actually help him.

Did the preview make it clear if the returning player happens first or after the next TC? It has to be first, right?
  #213  
Old 05-09-2019, 09:42 AM
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Well, your second paragraph kind of answered your question.

This setup, particularly with a super-late return, is tailor-made to help a physically strong but socially weak player who would always get voted out before the end if he had to win like 5 immunity challenges in a row to get there (say, Joe or possibly Chris?). Why Probst and co. find these types of players compelling is beyond me, but clearly they do. At least with their blatant idol-hiding to help physical players the player has to be willing to put in the work instead of just laze around and win one challenge.
If you think "their handful of chosen favorites" are all "physically strong but socially weak player(s)" then I guess I answered my own question. I don't think that though.
  #214  
Old 05-09-2019, 10:14 AM
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If you think "their handful of chosen favorites" are all "physically strong but socially weak player(s)" then I guess I answered my own question. I don't think that though.
Yeah, that's fair. They sort of showed us who their "favorites" are based on who they had come back this season - and I guess Joe only really falls in the category I defined (although possibly Kelley - I have a hard time categorizing her game since she's never actually impressed me that much... but obviously I'm in the minority on that).

I guess the simpler answer is: they brought back some returning players, presumably to drive ratings, and they wanted to maximize the amount of screen time devoted to those returning players.

It's actually one of the dilemma's of the show's structure - stronger personalities will tend to be targeted for elimination leaving behind less compelling players. Their solution seems to be a combination of mechanisms for players to get a second chance and liberal distribution of advantages and idols for those willing to put in the effort (who are sort of by definition stronger players).
  #215  
Old 05-09-2019, 11:30 AM
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The extended scene on EoE had me wondering who some of those people are. And what would a returning player write to themselves other than "If I am reading this, I either screwed up or am doing OK". It's not like they don't know what it's like to be on Survivor.

I was sort of expecting Lauren to get voted out because she was the one who brought up the idea of voting out Aurora. I guess her alliance has her as the goat.
  #216  
Old 05-09-2019, 04:18 PM
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I really liked Rick at the start of the show and he was my winner pick, but I have gone off him for some reason. He is annoying. I still think he will win though.

I dom't think Lauren is any more of a goat than the rest. Except for Rick, none of them have much going for them.
  #217  
Old 05-09-2019, 11:40 PM
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It would be much better if the returning player gimmick happened somewhere around weeks 6 and 10 instead of 4 and 13 or whatever they're doing.

Agreed. A few weeks back, lots of people were saying (here, on Twitter, or maybe both) that they just assumed the final returnee would come back in the finale. I thought this was a borderline laughable assumption--that there's no way they would do anything that ridiculous.

But they did.


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I thought Rick played this week just about perfectly. Find an idol, make the other players work chasing you around, make it clear who you are voting for, and then give the others enough fear that they could go home to encourage them to vote with you.

He played it well, but if he made it clear who he was voting for, I missed that. He said at TC that he could be voting for any of the four of them. I thought it might have been better to say that he was NOT voting for Aurora, but one of the other three. That would make it more likely those other three would band together against Aurora (it's pretty clear that's what they were doing anyway, but just in case). Because if they think he's voting Aurora, they have less reason to cancel a plan to vote Julie, since they would then know their secondary target goes home if he does follow through on playing his idol for her.
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  #218  
Old 05-10-2019, 12:06 AM
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Agreed. A few weeks back, lots of people were saying (here, on Twitter, or maybe both) that they just assumed the final returnee would come back in the finale. I thought this was a borderline laughable assumption--that there's no way they would do anything that ridiculous.

But they did.
Here in the thread that was me. I can't even really say why I felt that way; it just seemed to me to be clearly and obviously what was happening, even though objectively and with hindsight it wasn't really clear or obvious at the time.

Possibly because edge of extinction is so stupid that of course it will end up being the stupidest possible variation, but that's not what I was thinking at the time.

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He played it well, but if he made it clear who he was voting for, I missed that. He said at TC that he could be voting for any of the four of them. I thought it might have been better to say that he was NOT voting for Aurora, but one of the other three. That would make it more likely those other three would band together against Aurora (it's pretty clear that's what they were doing anyway, but just in case). Because if they think he's voting Aurora, they have less reason to cancel a plan to vote Julie, since they would then know their secondary target goes home if he does follow through on playing his idol for her.
Agreed. He specifically hid who his target was so the majority couldn't just keep voting Julie and let Aurora go home. If he told them Aurora they'd still vote him and he would have had to play his idol.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 05-10-2019 at 12:10 AM.
  #219  
Old 05-10-2019, 07:35 AM
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I've got to wonder if early outs like Reem & Chris honestly think they have a shot to win if they get back into the game? They obviously can't point to their great gameplay to convince the jury. The best they can hope for is "Hey jury, we lived on that sucky island together for weeks, so throw me a bone here." If something like that occurs - Chris comes back and wins the whole thing, it will obviously be the greatest "Fuck You" from the jury to the show producers of all time.
  #220  
Old 05-10-2019, 01:20 PM
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I really liked the "throw the ball into the trough then run through the obstacles to catch it" aspect of the first challenge. Pretty inventive.

I agree that Rick did a great job with his HII bluff. I don't think anyone actually 'fell' for it (as Aurora complained) but that even the mere possibility of him playing it meant it made sense to just vote out Aurora instead. Heck, I think they should've targeted Aurora over Julie anyways... to me Julie seems like a clear FTC goat who won't get any votes.

The way this episode went, I'm even more convinced Rick will win, but I can't help but feel it might be more interesting if he doesn't make the FTC. Lauren finally got some screentime again but I feel like it's too little too late. Gavin and Victoria basically have one big moment each and I don't think that's enough. Of course this all goes out the window if the returnee doesn't immediately get voted out again. Doubly so if it's someone like David or Kelley.

Last edited by magnusblitz; 05-10-2019 at 01:24 PM.
  #221  
Old 05-10-2019, 01:30 PM
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If you pause on Wardog's letter, it's pretty funny. He crossed out the first question - "Why are you here" - and wrote in "The Wardog makes his own rules. Wardog became a way of life, a way (something), a way to stay strong and resilient."
lordy. just as obnoxious in writing as he is in person!
  #222  
Old 05-10-2019, 02:51 PM
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My wife and I could not believe "letters to yourself" was a thing. We laughed so hard. It was so incredibly cheesy.
  #223  
Old 05-15-2019, 10:21 PM
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Disappointing season overall.

At the end I was rooting for nobody, just a generic "I hope none of the Returnees win" and a much more specific "I really hope Rick/Devens doesn't win" -- because I thought his actions lapsed way over into jerkishness towards the end.

And I think the theme of next season will be bad. Didn't they notice how the fans were complaining about how much less we saw of the players because of the time wasted on Extinction Island crap? So now they'll take time away from the players so we get wit and wisdom from Boston Rob and Sandra every damn week???
  #224  
Old 05-16-2019, 01:35 AM
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I've got to wonder if early outs like Reem & Chris honestly think they have a shot to win if they get back into the game? They obviously can't point to their great gameplay to convince the jury. The best they can hope for is "Hey jury, we lived on that sucky island together for weeks, so throw me a bone here." If something like that occurs - Chris comes back and wins the whole thing, it will obviously be the greatest "Fuck You" from the jury to the show producers of all time.
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  #225  
Old 05-16-2019, 02:14 AM
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Wow, what a finale. I disagree with Starving, I actually ended up liking the season on the whole. It isn't one of my favorites by any stretch, but it was good. The cast really did make it and overcame a really stupid theme, though.

I was rooting for Rick, I found his antics pretty funny, though I do think there were times he lapsed into pushing the line (mostly being a sore loser, especially when not being picked to share in the rewards... I didn't see any strategic value to that). Stuff like hiding fake idols has been called mean in the past, but everyone here seemed to take it in good stride this time around. I think having superfans play the game helps a lot in that regard - everyone knows its a game and is friendly at the end, which I like.

I do think that Chris played a pretty damn perfect game after returning - he managed to convince Lauren to play her HII for him, preying on her desire to make a Big Move(tm), then convinced Rick to give him the half of the next idol to save him, and then made the gutsy move to do fire himself and knock Rick out. Which had the potential of being a candidate for Dumbest Move Ever but I think he had to do it because I don't think he had the resume otherwise.

Going into the FTC, I was thinking that if I had a vote, I'd vote for Gavin (even if I didn't think he'd win). Julie played well socially and won a couple challenges, but (seemed to be) a dull thud strategically, following Ron early on and failing to get anything going later. Chris, while he played very well once coming back, did get voted out third (third!) and I just wouldn't be able to support that. Gavin did a bit of everything... he seemed good socially, won a few challenges, and definitely played a strategic game. Unfortunately most of his moves came early on and did fall prey to the Rick show (as did everyone else at the end). Definitely one of the weakest final threes I can think of, but it also meant that anyone could've won and I wouldn't have been surprised.

Victoria voted for Chris! After she even said she would vote for Gavin when she left!

And muldoonthief, I disagree... Chris winning is what the producers wanted (justifying the whole theme), it's a bigger fuck you to Survivor purists. :P

Next season certainly looks like the produers tried to double down on an even dumber concept. I can only imagine at one point the contestants will get to try and plea for an advantage from Rob and Sandra, and Rob will get to do a Godfather impression. "But now, you come to me, and you say..." I really hope they cut down on the advantages overall, it's still way too messy, especially at the end. But I fear that's a bridge that will never be uncrossed.
  #226  
Old 05-16-2019, 02:16 AM
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Last comment... the reunion show was a bit of an improvement in that they actually talked to a lot of people (or gave Probst the chance to mention them), but they wasted all of it talking about stupid things. I don't care about their personal journeys, I wanted insight on why Victoria voted for Chris at the end, or how much everyone admitted that just sharing EoE with Chris might've swayed their votes.
  #227  
Old 05-16-2019, 06:26 AM
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That was comical. Chris gets to hang out for 28 days without a care in the world and then come back for a couple days and he wins? Ugh.

Wardog said "We're not here to judge the theme, we're here to judge you three." Or you could judge those three in the context of the theme.

I agree the producers wanted Joe Chris to win: They stacked the deck by making the return challenge super physical (and ONLY physical -- no puzzle at all), then gave the returnee that two-halves HII thing? Come on.

I enjoyed the season but Chris (or anyone from EoE) winning drops this season to one of the worst I've ever seen, on par with those couple seasons where the goat who got dragged along to the end won. It's fair to label me a Survivor purist, I suppose.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 05-16-2019 at 06:28 AM.
  #228  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:06 AM
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Complete joke of a season, IMO. The theme may not have been on trial (h/t Wardog), but if it was I would have convicted.

I think the basic problem is that the "pure" game has been solved and it's pretty boring (strong player brings a few goats, and hopes that the goats don't band together to pick him off). So they add all these twists that turn it into a challenge-winning idol-finding game. Which is fine, I guess, if it's fair (which EOE was not). I still think I'd rather watch the pure game with better players or more challenging physical conditions (you know, Survivor...) but I suppose that ship has sailed.
  #229  
Old 05-16-2019, 10:48 AM
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I was pissed when Devans lost. Absolutely livid. Chris is a dumbass, and didn't deserve this. Gavin actually played hard, and while I wouldn't have liked it, I would have respected a jury vote that gave the game to him over Devans.
  #230  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:20 AM
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A few more thoughts:

I'm LOVING the structure of the reunion in modern seasons: The final tribal council doesn't even start until the beginning of the third hour. Jeff didn't reveal the winner until 20 minutes into the reunion, and then a quick half-episode reunion and finally a meaty preview of the next season. Perfect.

Contrast that to the early season reunions, which would start with the winner reveal within minutes, then the reunion would get padded with the cringiest stuff like audience interviews -- Please no, Jeff, don't talk to children in the audience. Or Sia. -- and getting the reaction of previous popular contestants. Yuck.


Regarding the final vote, I'm convinced of two things:

1) Devens would have won had he been there.
2) Without Devens there, anyone from EoE would have won due to the interpersonal relationships they were able to cultivate for weeks.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 05-16-2019 at 11:21 AM.
  #231  
Old 05-16-2019, 12:06 PM
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Regarding the final vote, I'm convinced of two things:

1) Devens would have won had he been there.
2) Without Devens there, anyone from EoE would have won due to the interpersonal relationships they were able to cultivate for weeks.
Oh, absolutely.

And I will give Chris props for his decision to do the fire-making challenge himself (and potentially miss out on top-3). I think it's a pretty easy call once you realize that the only thing that matters is that Rick loses, and it's made even easier by the fact that with only a few days of actually playing he had to make a "big move" to have a shot with the jury - but it's still taking an actual risk in order to have a chance to win, something far too many players are completely unable to do.

If they wanted this EoE thing to not be the ridiculous failure it was they needed to make at least one of these changes: either have the final re-entry at least 2 votes earlier or make everyone that lost the first re-entry challenge out of the game entirely. This would have avoided biggest issues with the format - Chris only having to survive one live vote to make the Final TC and Reem and co. getting to vote for the winner when they basically didn't know any of the finalists except the one guy that had actually been voted out for weeks.

I guess if they had done my second idea the only folks removed from the game would have been Reem, Aubrey, and Chris (because at least Wendy and Keith had the good graces to quit - can you imagine the absurdity of either of them on the jury?). But it's still way better than what we had and it preserves the idea that only players that make the merge are on the jury.
  #232  
Old 05-16-2019, 02:04 PM
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The season was good after the merge, but the last couple of episodes were too much the "can we vote out Rick this week?" show even though I like Rick.

I guess I am a survivor purist, because the winner was very disappointing. Chris played hard in the days he was given, but he got voted out third. Being voted out is the worst move you can make in Survivor. Gavin wasn't the best, but he at least played an ok game.

I think being on Extinction ended up being a big advantage for the returnee. Even if they're starving, it's still free of the social and gameplay stress of the real game. You don't have to worry about who has a knife hidden behind their back, or who you need to betray. Heck, mutual suffering can help in creating strong bonds. Gavin and July hadn't even met some of the Jury members until the Final Tribal.
  #233  
Old 05-16-2019, 02:39 PM
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It looks like other than Wentworth, the votes for Gavin and Chris were split by how long the juror was on EoE.
  #234  
Old 05-17-2019, 07:00 AM
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The season was good after the merge, but the last couple of episodes were too much the "can we vote out Rick this week?" show even though I like Rick.

I guess I am a survivor purist, because the winner was very disappointing. Chris played hard in the days he was given, but he got voted out third. Being voted out is the worst move you can make in Survivor. Gavin wasn't the best, but he at least played an ok game.

I think being on Extinction ended up being a big advantage for the returnee. Even if they're starving, it's still free of the social and gameplay stress of the real game. You don't have to worry about who has a knife hidden behind their back, or who you need to betray. Heck, mutual suffering can help in creating strong bonds. Gavin and July hadn't even met some of the Jury members until the Final Tribal.
They need to come with something to break alliances otherwise the game becomes dull.
How many seasons did we have where a group of people formed an alliance and they just wiped whoever they wanted one by one episode by episode? It was boring as heck.

This season was better because alliances didnt last very long, people wised up and got rid of the head of the snake. So that was good.
Rick offered alot of enjoyment because he was always the tail and managed to stay till the end.

I dont particularly like the winner this season, a guy that gets voted out on the third council does not deserve to win the game period.

They should have had the EOE play the challenge when they were mid way to clear them and then do it again when there was six people left to shake things up.

I also hope that the producers rethink the fire challenge thing to determine who gets the final three. Its not a good system imo.
I am also thinking that the immunity challenge at the final four should be eliminated too, it gives too much power to whoever wins because he decides who goes to tribal.
Either eliminate that or counterbalance with an immunity necklace.
  #235  
Old 05-17-2019, 07:29 AM
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In the back of my mind I kept thinking they were going to save us from the brink of stupidity by making the final EoE challenge offer the "chance" to get back in the game. Something where the people still in the game also competed and the EoE winner only gets back in if they beat all 5 remaining contestants as well, or maybe a vote where the final 5 can vote to bring a returner back or the final 5 goes to rocks or something.

I never landed on an actually GOOD way to make the return <100%, but I was hoping for something like that anyway.
  #236  
Old 05-17-2019, 08:40 AM
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In a classic Survivor season, the Final 3 have to stand before a jury consisting of people they've stabbed in the back, or at least voted out (mostly). Chris spent the entire game not winning challenges; not building alliances; just schmoozing with the jury. It's like jury tampering was built into the game. Huge, fatal flaw. If they're going to have a way for booted players to get back in, there has to be a way to build a pool of jurors separately.
  #237  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:33 PM
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I also hope that the producers rethink the fire challenge thing to determine who gets the final three. .
My problem with the fire building is that every time it comes down to who can get their fire going first, not who can build a better fire.
  #238  
Old 05-17-2019, 06:06 PM
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Right, they should have the string higher so you can't burn through it without a really nice fire.

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Originally Posted by muldoonthief View Post
I've got to wonder if early outs like Reem & Chris honestly think they have a shot to win if they get back into the game? They obviously can't point to their great gameplay to convince the jury. The best they can hope for is "Hey jury, we lived on that sucky island together for weeks, so throw me a bone here." If something like that occurs - Chris comes back and wins the whole thing, it will obviously be the greatest "Fuck You" from the jury to the show producers of all time.

This is awesome. I do think it's interesting as to whether this is seen by the producers as a "fuck you" or not. Do any of you have friends or family members who just casually watch the show but don't post online about it or really map out the game theory and so on? I wonder what they think of this. They aren't "purists" of course, but also: aren't they thrown by barely being able to remember who Chris is?


Quote:
Originally Posted by magnusblitz View Post
I do think that Chris played a pretty damn perfect game after returning - he managed to convince Lauren to play her HII for him, preying on her desire to make a Big Move(tm), then convinced Rick to give him the half of the next idol to save him, and then made the gutsy move to do fire himself and knock Rick out. Which had the potential of being a candidate for Dumbest Move Ever but I think he had to do it because I don't think he had the resume otherwise.

Yeah, although I think if it had been solely a case of "here, let me raise the degree of difficulty for myself, to no coherent purpose except resume building" I think that might have fallen flat. In this case, it was also an important strategic move on its own: he is the best at building fire, and eliminating Rick via firemaking is the only way to keep Rick from running away with it.


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Originally Posted by Ellis Dee View Post
I agree the producers wanted Joe Chris to win: They stacked the deck by making the return challenge super physical (and ONLY physical -- no puzzle at all), then gave the returnee that two-halves HII thing? Come on.

I enjoyed the season but Chris (or anyone from EoE) winning drops this season to one of the worst I've ever seen, on par with those couple seasons where the goat who got dragged along to the end won. It's fair to label me a Survivor purist, I suppose.

Fully cosigned. Including the snark about crossing out Joe. I think when you add in Probst's onstage convo with Joe, it's clear that this was supposed to be a total setup for Joe. In fact, based on that convo, I actually wonder if Joe was reluctant to come back based on the way he always gets targeted for elimination, and they actually told him "pssst, come back one more time and we've got a twist cooked up that will let you use your mad challenge skillz to shortcut to the end". And he was so close! So I think this is what they had in mind: Joe is beloved, including by "the kids", so even if we purists groaned, the hoi polloi would have eaten it up. But I do think they miscalculated by putting another challenge beast on there with him. I just can't imagine that they wanted some dude no one ever heard of to win after only 13 total lifetime days of playing Survivor.

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Originally Posted by Jas09 View Post
If they wanted this EoE thing to not be the ridiculous failure it was they needed to make at least one of these changes: either have the final re-entry at least 2 votes earlier or make everyone that lost the first re-entry challenge out of the game entirely. This would have avoided biggest issues with the format - Chris only having to survive one live vote to make the Final TC and Reem and co. getting to vote for the winner when they basically didn't know any of the finalists except the one guy that had actually been voted out for weeks.

Agreed, for all the reasons you named plus the simple fact that Chris had an earlier shot at getting back in and lost. So he was voted out early, lost the early return challenge (against fewer competitors), and then got one more chance in the finale. Lame.

As for the jury, I just think regardless of season, no one should get to be a juror unless they have played with all the finalists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerJoe View Post
They need to come with something to break alliances otherwise the game becomes dull.
How many seasons did we have where a group of people formed an alliance and they just wiped whoever they wanted one by one episode by episode? It was boring as heck.

This season was better because alliances didnt last very long, people wised up and got rid of the head of the snake. So that was good.
Rick offered alot of enjoyment because he was always the tail and managed to stay till the end.

I agree with all of this; however, I'd point out that the players this season were already preventing the dull march to the end by one solid alliance. They kept cutting off the "head of the snake" as someone pointed out upthread. (The way I thought about it was that anyone who poked their head up even slightly higher than the others got guillotined.) However, this also can lead to its own problem of eliminating all the dynamic, colorful players before we get to the end stages (this happened with home audience voting in the first season of "Big Brother").
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  #239  
Old 05-17-2019, 08:27 PM
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Rick said in an interview that another advantage Chris had coming back from EoE was a note from Ron to Julie saying she should work with/trust Chris. Really does seem like the EoE folks were pulling for whoever returned to win (and the fact that the votes were heavily weighted by time on EoE - 8/9 longest people on EoE voted for Chris, 3/4 of the shortest voted for Gavin). jsc1953 said, jury tampering was basically built in.

Victoria said that apparently her "I'm voting for Gavin" as she exited was an attempt to make him look like a threat and get him voted out... she said he had betrayed her because he was supposed to vote for Chris (which I guess would've made it a 2/2/2 Rick/Chris/Vic vote and allowed a revote). I don't know if that's really a betrayal by Gavin or just a Tyson-esque mess up though.

I do wish they'd cut down on the amount of HIIs. I wonder what the side effects would be, though... would it just lead to more Pagonging? With having more superfans play, I do think the switch to 'voting blocks' is here to stay (at least for now) and that helps negate potential Pagonging. Not as many people who will sit around and just let the one easy winner lead them to the end.
  #240  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:19 PM
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I hope they NEVER do another "return after getting voted out" island type of thing. I hope this Boston Rob and Sandra season does not do it.
  #241  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:42 PM
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How I would love a season free of gimmicks and returning players. Put a group of unknowns together and play the game straight - no Redemption Canyon or Edge of Extermination or Blood vs. Semen or Davy vs. Goliath. Or any chance of any player returning after being voted off.

Straightforward challenges that incorporate equal parts athleticism, problem solving, and stamina are what I want.

Instead we now get to look forward to Boston Rob and Sandra's "Boot Camp". Spare me such malarkey.


mmm
  #242  
Old 05-18-2019, 12:23 AM
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How I would love a season free of gimmicks and returning players. Put a group of unknowns together and play the game straight - no Redemption Canyon or Edge of Extermination or Blood vs. Semen or Davy vs. Goliath. Or any chance of any player returning after being voted off.
I just checked and the last season we had without A) a 'theme' to divvy up the original tribes or overriding gimmick, or B) returning players was... season 19, Russell Hantz's first season!
  #243  
Old 05-18-2019, 07:51 AM
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Finally watched the episode last night. I've got to retract my previous claim that a win by Chris was a "fuck you" to the producers. It's obvious the producers really, really wanted it - give an HII to the returnee, really?

My new theory is that the long term Edgers voted for Chris because they had to justify their own decision to stay on EOE for so long. The vote was split pretty evenly depending how long you were on EOE - Wentworth was the only long timer who voted for Gavin, and Victoria was the only short timer who voted for Chris. I think the Edgers were desperately holding on to the idea that they could have won if they had been the person to return - Chris, as noted, played the best game possible after he returned, so if they didn't vote for him, they'd be admitting they had stayed on that island for absolutely no reason. This stupid twist had better die an immediate and unmourned death.

Last edited by muldoonthief; 05-18-2019 at 07:51 AM.
  #244  
Old 05-18-2019, 01:02 PM
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Chris, as noted, played the best game possible after he returned, so if they didn't vote for him, they'd be admitting they had stayed on that island for absolutely no reason.
That's a solid point.
  #245  
Old 05-18-2019, 06:24 PM
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Agreed.
  #246  
Old 05-18-2019, 07:36 PM
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How I would love a season free of gimmicks and returning players.
I actually almost said this season was, but we did have returning players? I kind of forgot about it, though.

Jeff is going to write about this season one day admitting it was a snoozefest. The people they picked to be on it turned out to not be all that interesting.
  #247  
Old 05-19-2019, 12:16 AM
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Supposed cast list for season 40:

SPOILER:
http://insidesurvivor.com/cast/survi...-cast-revealed

I'd be pretty happy with this list (Yul hype!), except no Hatch, Tina or Earl. Also, both Amber and Boston Rob makes me wonder if it's fake...

Last edited by magnusblitz; 05-19-2019 at 12:18 AM.
  #248  
Old 05-19-2019, 02:50 AM
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That could be awesome if they don’t screw it up.
  #249  
Old 05-19-2019, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by magnusblitz View Post
Supposed cast list for season 40:

SPOILER:
http://insidesurvivor.com/cast/survi...-cast-revealed

I'd be pretty happy with this list (Yul hype!), except no Hatch, Tina or Earl. Also, both Amber and Boston Rob makes me wonder if it's fake...
SPOILER:
Rob and Sandra are going to be on the next season, and then again for season 40? Doesn't sound right. It would be awesome to see Yul again though.
  #250  
Old 05-19-2019, 01:51 PM
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They aren't "on" season 39 in the normal sense: They aren't competing, and are not eligible to win. They won't even be on the tribal beaches.

Of course, last time Big Brother did that kind of thing (4 returning vet "coaches" who weren't playing the game and not eligible to win) they were given a choice to enter the game proper after the 4th eviction and of course they chose to do exactly that. So who knows.


I would love to see
SPOILER:
Parvati win and take her rightful place ahead of Sandra as the greatest Survivor ever. Sandra's second win was an example of one of those horrible seasons I mentioned above when the goat wins because the jury was too bitter to award it to the clear best player in the final 3. (Russel Hantz)

And that second (cheesy, unearned) win is the ONLY reason Sandra has any claim to the title at all.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 05-19-2019 at 01:53 PM.
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