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Old 08-12-2019, 01:28 AM
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If no regular liquids were avaiable for years, could one remain healthy on watermelon, grapes,...


If no regular liquids were avaiable for years, could one remain healthy on watermelon, grapes,...If so, what else.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:58 AM
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What means of processing do you have? If you can squeeze them through a strainer to make the juice as thin as possible, I see no health risks.
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:26 AM
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Very likely, yes.
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:42 AM
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Most fruit are mostly water, so obviously, the answer is yes. Presumably you have the power to squeeze them? Also, where are your fruit getting water from?
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:46 AM
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You don't have to squeeze them into juice. Just eat them. You could concoct a healthy diet where you don't have to drink any water.

But, yeah, if the fruits can get water to grow, why can't you?
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:35 AM
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I'm thinking that perhaps modern watermelon/grapes might have too much sugar.

I know that there is a level which is "too much", where you can't replace fluid loss by drinking sweet drinks. And I /think/ that grape juice might be approaching that level, but I'll have to look it up, or wait for someone to correct me.
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Melbourne View Post
I'm thinking that perhaps modern watermelon/grapes might have too much sugar.

I know that there is a level which is "too much", where you can't replace fluid loss by drinking sweet drinks. And I /think/ that grape juice might be approaching that level, but I'll have to look it up, or wait for someone to correct me.
Consider yourself corrected. Not a problem unless one is already a diabetic.
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:44 AM
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The only liquids humans consume that provide net negative hydration are strong alcoholic drinks (exactly how strong varies from individual to individual, but it's usually up in the distilled liquor range). Sugary drinks might provide less hydration than pure water, but not by very much. And that just leaves the problems with the sugar itself, which depend on how much exercise you're getting.
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Old 08-12-2019, 09:04 AM
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Are we to assume an adequate supply of fresh watermelons all year round?
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Old 08-12-2019, 10:04 AM
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[QUOTE=SanVito;21801089]Most fruit are mostly water, so obviously, the answer is yes. Presumably you have the power to squeeze them? Also, where are your fruit getting water from?[/QUOTE]

That's what I was wondering...if there's enough water to keep fruit growing, wouldn't that be available for humans to drink?
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Old 08-12-2019, 10:11 AM
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I have to assume that the OP means that watermelons etc. are the only source of liquid, and that supplies of proteins and fats are somehow made available. Otherwise, that diet isn't healthy for very long.

As for the watermelons' source of water, imagine the one in the OP is a prisoner and eating only what the captors provide.
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Old 08-12-2019, 11:06 AM
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The only liquids humans consume that provide net negative hydration are strong alcoholic drinks (exactly how strong varies from individual to individual, but it's usually up in the distilled liquor range). Sugary drinks might provide less hydration than pure water, but not by very much. And that just leaves the problems with the sugar itself, which depend on how much exercise you're getting.
Yes, we had a long thread on this. Apparently about the level of strong wines there is a break even point.

Perhaps espresso shots might be negative hydration.
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Old 08-12-2019, 11:17 AM
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That's what I was wondering...if there's enough water to keep fruit growing, wouldn't that be available for humans to drink?
I interpreted the OP to imply that there was water, but not safe for human consumption and no way to make it safe. Basically grow fruit as a way to purify the water. Then the question becomes what sorts of contamination can be effectively filtered this way.
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Old 08-12-2019, 11:28 AM
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. . . Sugary drinks might provide less hydration than pure water, but not by very much. And that just leaves the problems with the sugar itself, which depend on how much exercise you're getting.
I've met people who think that the digestion/metabolism of sugar pulls water out of your system, which is emphatically not the case. Chemically, the metabolism of sugar creates water and carbon dioxide. It doesn't create enough water to count in the body's water balance, but it doesn't remove any water either.

While the sugar is unmetabolized, it could throw your electrolyte balance off if you were dehydrated. Possibly. Sodium and potassium have a stronger effect.
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan View Post
Consider yourself corrected. Not a problem unless one is already a diabetic.
Or hypoglycemic.


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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
The only liquids humans consume that provide net negative hydration are strong alcoholic drinks (exactly how strong varies from individual to individual, but it's usually up in the distilled liquor range). Sugary drinks might provide less hydration than pure water, but not by very much. And that just leaves the problems with the sugar itself, which depend on how much exercise you're getting.
What about caffeinated drinks; sodas, coffee, energy drinks, etc? Is the amount of the caffeine's diuretic effect less than the amount of liquid consumed? What about the 'shot-like' drinks like 5-hr Energy which have less liquid in them but the same amount of caffeine?
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:38 AM
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Normal strength soda, coffee, and tea and not "net negative hydration". They aren't as hydrating as, say, plain water, but you can live indefinitely on any of them. There may be issues with added items like sweeteners, cream, etc. due to calories or sugar content, but all of them provide sufficient hydration. Your body adjusts to the slight diuretic effect and overcomes it.

Really concentrated sources of caffeine like "shot" energy drinks? I don't know, never looked into that myself.

Last edited by Broomstick; 08-13-2019 at 02:40 AM.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:11 AM
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Normal strength soda, coffee, and tea and not "net negative hydration". They aren't as hydrating as, say, plain water, but you can live indefinitely on any of them. There may be issues with added items like sweeteners, cream, etc. due to calories or sugar content, but all of them provide sufficient hydration. Your body adjusts to the slight diuretic effect and overcomes it.

Really concentrated sources of caffeine like "shot" energy drinks? I don't know, never looked into that myself.
Right. Someone said that espresso shots are negative hydration, and I can accept that, but plain old coffee certainly isnt.
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Old 08-13-2019, 04:02 PM
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Right. Someone said that espresso shots are negative hydration, and I can accept that, but plain old coffee certainly isnt.
Nor are espresso shots. One cannot get dehydrated from drinking caffeinated beverages; the body compensates for its diuretic effect by adjusting its own production of anti-diuretic hormone. One will get caffeine toxicity long before one could possibly dehydrate oneself by drinking only espresso, or even ristretto.
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Old 08-13-2019, 04:19 PM
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Sadly, there are plenty of actual doctors who help promulgate this particular fantasy health meme. If you can drink it, it has more water in it than it will "use up" from digesting it. All the fringe cases have vastly more obvious side effects that will kill long before you die from dehydration.

A human being produces enough water that closed system life support must include ways of removing it from the environment. If you live on beer, crackers, and beef jerky, it's the salt that's going to kill you.

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Old 08-13-2019, 07:21 PM
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Nor are espresso shots. One cannot get dehydrated from drinking caffeinated beverages; the body compensates for its diuretic effect by adjusting its own production of anti-diuretic hormone. One will get caffeine toxicity long before one could possibly dehydrate oneself by drinking only espresso, or even ristretto.
Well, dead is dead, like I , DrDeth, always say!
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:23 PM
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Most fruit are mostly water, so obviously, the answer is yes.
I took a nutrition class in college. The one fact the professor insisted everybody know: the most prevalent nutrient in a steak is...water.

Point being that hydration wouldn’t just be coming from fruit sources.

Last edited by Moriarty; 08-13-2019 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:21 AM
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I'm thinking that perhaps modern watermelon/grapes might have too much sugar.

I know that there is a level which is "too much", where you can't replace fluid loss by drinking sweet drinks. And I /think/ that grape juice might be approaching that level, but I'll have to look it up, or wait for someone to correct me.
The "too much sugar" thing would be a concern, but you'd definitely want to consume the whole fruit vs juicing it - not sure why anyone would thing juicing it was necessary. If you eat the fruit, you're getting a lot of fiber etc. which will somewhat offset the sugars (net carbs and all that). I suspect overall you'll get far less sugar than in equivalent volumes of sugary soft drinks.

I imagine if you ate enough fruit to give you several quarts of liquid it might pose an issue - but then you're likely eating less of other calorie-dense food (since you simply don't have room in your stomach), which might lead to weight loss, which might help your body in processing the sugar it DOES get.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:18 PM
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How about absorption rates? for a healthy young adult, what effect does 14% suger have on absorption rates?

And f you have someone who is acutely dehydrated (cholera), lacking a standard electrolyte mix, would you give grape juice, or grape juice cut with distilled water?
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:21 AM
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How about absorption rates? for a healthy young adult, what effect does 14% suger have on absorption rates?

And f you have someone who is acutely dehydrated (cholera), lacking a standard electrolyte mix, would you give grape juice, or grape juice cut with distilled water?
Without looking up figures for absorption etc., I do recall reading that electrolyte solutions are less sugary than "regular" drinks - so I'd personally lean toward diluted grape juice, ideally spiked with a pinch of salt.

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Quote:
Fruit juices, along with other drinks with a high sugar content can inhibit the body from absorbing the water it needs.

Although sports drinks are helpful because of their source of electrolytes and sodium, which help replenish hydration, fruit juice doesn't have enough sodium.
which supports my WAG.

Last edited by Mama Zappa; 08-16-2019 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 08-16-2019, 01:54 PM
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Sports drink usually have a small amout of sugar. They've done experiments and found that a certain amount of sugar gives the best absorption of water. The amount is too small to taste and much less than what's in fruit juice.

For electrolytes, sodium is not the only one the body needs, although it needs more of that than the others. The others are potassium, magnesium, and calcium.
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:48 PM
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Sports drink usually have a small amout of sugar. They've done experiments and found that a certain amount of sugar gives the best absorption of water. The amount is too small to taste and much less than what's in fruit juice.

For electrolytes, sodium is not the only one the body needs, although it needs more of that than the others. The others are potassium, magnesium, and calcium.
Gatorade has a craptonne of sugar. 31g in 16 oz, a Cola has 39g in 12 oz. Watermelon has about the same as Gatorade.

Last edited by DrDeth; 08-16-2019 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:23 PM
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And the sugar in sports drinks mostly isn't there because you need it; it's there because they taste terrible without it.
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:38 PM
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Gatorade has a craptonne of sugar. 31g in 16 oz, a Cola has 39g in 12 oz. Watermelon has about the same as Gatorade.
Well, yes I should have qualified that as Real sportsdrinks. Gatorade may have started as one, but it's now just another soft drink that pretends to be a sportsdrink. Ditto for Powerade.

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And the sugar in sports drinks mostly isn't there because you need it; it's there because they taste terrible without it.
The stuff I drink has it there because of the reason I said. They even cited some sports medicine paper on the subject right on the label. Well, at least they used to. They added some stevia a while back (and for all I know, more sugar) and I called up to complain. I thought the stuff was made by a small company, but I got the P&G call center. So it's probably on the way the the dark side. At any rate, it never tasted terrible even before the stevia.
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Old 08-17-2019, 12:50 AM
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The stuff I drink has it there because of the reason I said. They even cited some sports medicine paper on the subject right on the label. Well, at least they used to. They added some stevia a while back (and for all I know, more sugar) and I called up to complain. I thought the stuff was made by a small company, but I got the P&G call center. So it's probably on the way the the dark side. At any rate, it never tasted terrible even before the stevia.
Is that Gookinaid E.R.G.? Or something with even less sugar?
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:41 AM
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Is that Gookinaid E.R.G.? Or something with even less sugar?
It's Cytomax, if you must know. And I just looked at the label and found that its contents have changed a good deal from the last time I did. It used to have various amino acids and short peptide chains and only a little sugar, with scientific citations about how these contribute to performance and hydration. Now it's all various kinds of carbohydrates, half of which are sugars. I may need to change my brand of sports drink.
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:08 AM
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"Various amino acids and short peptide chains" sounds to me like they were making it taste good with artificial sweeteners, instead of using sugar. Aspartame is a dipeptide.
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Old 08-17-2019, 12:43 PM
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"Various amino acids and short peptide chains" sounds to me like they were making it taste good with artificial sweeteners, instead of using sugar. Aspartame is a dipeptide.
Googling, I found they did replace an artificial sweetener (acesulfame potassium) with stevia. But I'm pretty sure there were other amino acid/peptides mentioned on the label before. Note: it also has crystalline fructose, which is a sugar derived from corn, so I'm not sure why it needs the stevia.

Anyway, I mix it at less than half the strength they recommend, so I'm not getting the 12g of added sugar the label says it has.
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Old 08-28-2019, 12:10 PM
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And the sugar in sports drinks mostly isn't there because you need it; it's there because they taste terrible without it.
Even *with* it.... well, re Pedialyte, which isn't a sports drink per se but IS intended to help replenish electrolytes. When Dweezil was about 3 he developed some stomach crud, and I dutifully bought him some Pedialyte. Even with the sugars in it, he wouldn't drink it.
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Old 08-28-2019, 01:00 PM
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I am highly suspicious that if the only hydration you got was from eating fruit, you'd get pretty bad diarrhea. At least for me. I eat a shit load of fruit and don't have a fun time.
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:08 AM
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I am highly suspicious that if the only hydration you got was from eating fruit, you'd get pretty bad diarrhea. At least for me. I eat a shit load of fruit and don't have a fun time.
If you're eating other stuff as well, that might reduce the diarrhea risk. Also as your body adjusts to things - e.g. if you ate that much fruit every day - it might become less of a problem.

And of course there is some water in other things as well - even in most protein foods.

Most days I don't drink anywhere near "enough" by the 64-ounce-a-day recommendation, sometimes I'll nurse a 20 ounce drink all day. And yet there's always some degree of output. I assume the difference is based on other things I consume.

Going back to the cholera question (grape juice straight up or diluted): if the only source for water to dilute it is suspect, and you have no way of boiling it, would the straight juice be a better choice? Or would the water pose no further danger if the person already *has* cholera?

Last edited by Mama Zappa; 08-29-2019 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:01 PM
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You would very likely become a Type-II diabetic by drinking nothing but fruit juice or eating watermelons for hydration. Not only is it super high in glycemic index, but it would amount to perhaps 200 grams of sugar every day.
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Old 08-30-2019, 06:16 AM
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You would very likely become a Type-II diabetic by drinking nothing but fruit juice or eating watermelons for hydration. Not only is it super high in glycemic index, but it would amount to perhaps 200 grams of sugar every day.
Could we please stop this? That's not how you '''get''' type II.

CMC fnord!
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Old 08-30-2019, 06:37 AM
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I drink at least two liters of pure water every day. It doesn't matter that I eat fruit, drink coffee, etc. I have to have that pure water to feel really good. Our bodies are basically 3/4 water. I have to think pure water is a daily must.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:01 PM
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I drink at least two liters of pure water every day. It doesn't matter that I eat fruit, drink coffee, etc. I have to have that pure water to feel really good. Our bodies are basically 3/4 water. I have to think pure water is a daily must.
No, it is not a must. There are animals out there who never drink pure water. They get all the water from the food they eat. And their bodies are just as high a percentage of H2O as human's.
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:44 PM
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No, it is not a must. There are animals out there who never drink pure water. They get all the water from the food they eat. And their bodies are just as high a percentage of H2O as human's.
Plus water is filthy, potentially harboring all kinds of nasty gut germs, and let's not even get into what the fish do in it. Eat your fruit, flush your water, and drink Brawndo for the lectrolites.
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