Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-30-2020, 08:08 PM
alnath is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 63

Covid Life:What about the stupid ones?


I apologize if this sounds arrogant, but my question is serious. There are more and more situations where a small number of people behaving stupidly can do massive damage. I don't mean ignorant people- they can be taught. I mean just plain, stupid people. Anti-vaxers come to mind. Folks who crowd into church services or bars during the Covid pandemic. Business owners who refuse to provide employees appropriate PPE because it cuts their profits. These folks place everyone at risk, but our social traditions and laws make it difficult to restrain their behavior.

What should we do? Realistically you cannot rely on education. (Try going on Fox News' comment sites and defending social distancing.) Rely on compulsion? Let the consequences of their actions teach them even though innocents all suffer? It seems pretty bleak.
  #2  
Old 04-30-2020, 08:47 PM
Velocity is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 17,494
At some point you just have to crack down with arrests and stiff fines. Unfortunately, for many, they would see it as righteous persecution and it would fan their flames.
  #3  
Old 04-30-2020, 09:18 PM
Fretful Porpentine is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Bohemia. A seacoast.
Posts: 6,806
From what I understand, the public health professionals know those people exist and have already factored them into their calculations -- and have in fact been pleasantly surprised that social distancing has gotten as much buy-in as it has, for as long as it has. Nothing is going to get 100% cooperation from the general public, but it's OK if it doesn't; 70 or 80% cooperation is enough to make a substantial difference. (Business owners that won't provide PPE for their workers are a different situation, and there probably SHOULD be some legal consequences there.)
  #4  
Old 05-01-2020, 01:40 AM
Voyager's Avatar
Voyager is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deep Space
Posts: 47,732
About the only solution is removing temptation and making examples. Closing the beaches and parks is an example of removing temptation. A bunch of nitwits from my town went to Santa Cruz to hang out and got busted. With a lot of coverage, Good for the Santa Cruz cops.

An alternative is to make them all wear big red "Cs" all the time, so the rest of us can stay away.
  #5  
Old 05-01-2020, 01:25 PM
Icarus's Avatar
Icarus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In front of my PC, y tu?
Posts: 5,707
This gets all slippery-slopey really fast. How do we actually define stupid? How do we actually identify stupid? Who gets to decide? Pretty soon you are rounding people up into camps, keeping them from breeding, and killing people off. It's not like it hasn't happened before.
__________________
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
- C. Darwin
  #6  
Old 05-01-2020, 04:35 PM
snowthx's Avatar
snowthx is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sacratomato area
Posts: 3,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
This gets all slippery-slopey really fast. How do we actually define stupid? How do we actually identify stupid? Who gets to decide? Pretty soon you are rounding people up into camps, keeping them from breeding, and killing people off. It's not like it hasn't happened before.
Something I learned on this board a long time ago: There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Ignorance just means you don't know something, but when provided with information, you can learn and adjust your view and not be ignorant. Stupidity means you have access to information from reputable sources, but refuse to avail yourself to it.

There is abundant info available on coronavirus via various means. Our own state and federal government have provided guidelines to follow for appropriate behaviors. Unless you are a hermit in the mountains it is a safe assumption everyone is aware of what we are being asked to do and not do. People not following these guidelines are evident and are stupid.
  #7  
Old 05-01-2020, 05:50 PM
Icarus's Avatar
Icarus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In front of my PC, y tu?
Posts: 5,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowthx View Post
Something I learned on this board a long time ago: There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Ignorance just means you don't know something, but when provided with information, you can learn and adjust your view and not be ignorant. Stupidity means you have access to information from reputable sources, but refuse to avail yourself to it.

There is abundant info available on coronavirus via various means. Our own state and federal government have provided guidelines to follow for appropriate behaviors. Unless you are a hermit in the mountains it is a safe assumption everyone is aware of what we are being asked to do and not do. People not following these guidelines are evident and are stupid.
And what I have learned on these boards, and in life, is that absolutely everything is political and relies on who is in power. So, today we determine that something can be easily used to identify someone as "stupid" and we can take action based on that identification. Next year, those same people are in power and use that power to identify ME as "stupid" and take some action I don't like against me.
__________________
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
- C. Darwin
  #8  
Old 05-02-2020, 10:42 AM
Caldazar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
And what I have learned on these boards, and in life, is that absolutely everything is political and relies on who is in power. So, today we determine that something can be easily used to identify someone as "stupid" and we can take action based on that identification. Next year, those same people are in power and use that power to identify ME as "stupid" and take some action I don't like against me.
Well, yes, but that's democracy. Ultimately, you cannot escape tyranny of the majority in the long-term. All you can ever hope for is that enough people have enough wisdom to see the correlations between actions and the consequences of those actions, maddeningly complex and unclear though the correlations may be. If a population doesn't have sufficient wisdom to govern itself, that just means that democracy is an unstable social structure.

Next year's consequences don't much matter, at least on an individual level, if you die tomorrow. Not saying the current pandemic will or will not cause a socially-destabilizing level of death; the current data is inadequate to make an estimate. But when you have at least hundreds of thousands dead in the first few months of exposure to an poorly-understood risk, it makes sense to err on the side of caution and use a reasonable amount of force, if necessary, to require others to do the same.
  #9  
Old 05-02-2020, 11:36 AM
Velocity is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 17,494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
This gets all slippery-slopey really fast. How do we actually define stupid? How do we actually identify stupid? Who gets to decide? Pretty soon you are rounding people up into camps, keeping them from breeding, and killing people off. It's not like it hasn't happened before.
"Stupid" is context-specific. Without a doubt, many of the people who are willfully defying the stay-at-home, physical-distancing orders are smart in other aspects - all sorts of degrees, maybe work in engineering, accounting, some tough technical trade, etc. But with regards to the virus, their behavior is utterly destructive, willfully ignorant, and puts all of society in jeopardy.
  #10  
Old 05-02-2020, 12:42 PM
TriPolar is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 42,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
This gets all slippery-slopey really fast. How do we actually define stupid? How do we actually identify stupid? Who gets to decide? Pretty soon you are rounding people up into camps, keeping them from breeding, and killing people off. It's not like it hasn't happened before.
This is not about people being stupid, it'a about people who act stupid. Specifically acting stupid about social distancing and the Corona virus. Some of the people acting stupid aren't stupid, and not all of the stupid people are acting stupid in this regard. So there's no labeling people as stupid by making them wear a yellow "Stoopit" patch, there's no rounding up people into camps.

What we should do is round up the people acting stupid by ignoring social distancing and advocating for other people to act stupidly. There are two categories of these people, the ones who carry guns while acting stupid, and the ones who aren't. The ones who aren't should be locked into a large one room warehouse for 21 days. The ones with guns need to be punished in the worst way possible for them, having their guns and their right to carry one taken away. The incessant crying of babies without pacifiers will be annoying, so it's not a perfect solution.
  #11  
Old 05-02-2020, 01:03 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 64,052
It is as if there was a movement advocating for the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
  #12  
Old 05-04-2020, 02:48 PM
Lantern is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,140
Up till now the US has done better than Western Europe in terms of per capita deaths. However deaths in Europe seem to be falling much faster than in the US. If the protests against the lockdown gather steam or if people just ignore social distancing in some states there is a real danger that the US will have a much flatter trajectory taking months to get to near-zero deaths meaning tens of thousands of additional deaths in the aggregate. May could be a really crucial month.
  #13  
Old 05-04-2020, 03:02 PM
Horatius is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 1,463
We need to start shunning them. They want to whine about wearing masks? Come talk to me in two weeks when you run out of food and no grocery store will let you shop without a mask. They'll still whine, but they'll wear the mask.

Essentially we need actual adults to tell these idiots to shut up and sit down, and then to stick to that.
__________________
Where am I going, and why am I in this handbasket?
  #14  
Old 05-04-2020, 03:08 PM
Dinsdale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 19,574
Here in IL, a state rep won a ct judgment exempting him from the governor's lockdown order.

I'm surprised at the lack of discussion as to the constitutional bases for the various restrictions. Yes, I know there has been SOME discussion - here, and in local media. But the requirement is that state restrictions of individuals' constitutional freedoms (think speech, religion, assembly, travel...) must be narrowly tailored to achieve compelling state interests. (Apologies - from memory).

I think there are very legitimate arguments that SOME ASPECTS of my state's lockdown order are NOT narrowly tailored. And I DETEST that my feeling that way places me close to the idiot Trumpistas.
__________________
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
  #15  
Old 05-04-2020, 03:20 PM
nightshadea is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: a condo in hell 10th lvl
Posts: 6,449
i wish the government would tell the south: look open all ya want but once people start dying again ya on your own ....they can die in the street for all we care .....
  #16  
Old 05-04-2020, 08:00 PM
RioRico is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: beyond cell service
Posts: 3,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
We need to start shunning them. They want to whine about wearing masks? Come talk to me in two weeks when you run out of food and no grocery store will let you shop without a mask. They'll still whine, but they'll wear the mask.

Essentially we need actual adults to tell these idiots to shut up and sit down, and then to stick to that.
I fear the second- and third-wave spikes will quiet many. Till then, they demand "liberty" to spread contagion. "Give me liberty AND give me meth!" is the slogan. They've run out of fentanyl, and now this! The world is so unfair. (sniff) Poor babies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightshadea View Post
i wish the government would tell the south: look open all ya want but once people start dying again ya on your own ....they can die in the street for all we care .....
This administration will focus relief on (R) states, the white portions anyway, and so will be rather preoccupied. Let (D) states and any n!gs and sp!x die! But the upcoming South viral wildfire will be hard to suppress. BOOM goes Mobile, BAM goes Memphis. Bye now.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:19 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017