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  #51  
Old 05-05-2020, 09:51 PM
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Plenty of American idiots make the news in Australia. Hell, the idiot in the White House is in the papers all the time.
  #52  
Old 05-06-2020, 10:24 AM
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Don't understand why the woman Sharmel was charged with murder? She did not pull the trigger. Would not evidence be required to establish she incited her husband to do it? Who knows maybe she actually tried to calm them down?
Arrest all involved parties and sort out the charges later.
  #53  
Old 05-06-2020, 10:29 AM
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You sure do figure out a lot about the suspects just from their skin color.
Nope, I would tell the same story about cracker-ass meth-head white trailer trash, if that makes you feel any better.
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  #54  
Old 05-06-2020, 10:36 AM
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Mugshots of these typical Trump supporters ... here.
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Originally Posted by mikecurtis View Post
those are driver's license photos.

what was yer point, anyway?
My guess is that he didn't know that 8% of African-American voters voted for Trump in 2016.

There's a fair chance that these murderers were NOT Trump supporters, but if Darren Garrison is offering 92-8 odds, I know which way I'm betting!
  #55  
Old 05-06-2020, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mandala
Don't understand why the woman Sharmel was charged with murder? She did not pull the trigger. Would not evidence be required to establish she incited her husband to do it? Who knows maybe she actually tried to calm them down?
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Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
Arrest all involved parties and sort out the charges later.
It's been years since I graduated from law school-- er, I mean watching "Law & Order"-- but I had a thought that's similar to Chefguy's reply.

Rightly or wrongly, prosecutors often go "big" in initial charges, especially in highly-publicized crimes that, to use the legal expression, "shock the conscience".

My sense is that prosecutors (and politicians) assume that a majority of the public "demands" tough, uncompromising prosecution-- so it's better to open with maximum charges rather than appear to "downplay" the heinous nature of the crime.

Once things settle down, the prosecutors can and do revise and downgrade the inflated original charges-- assuming that they actually filed the inflated charges in the first place, and weren't just disingenuously making public-relations noises about doing so.

Also, prosecutors may deliberately overcharge for tactical reasons, e.g. as a feint to obtain leverage when more than one perpetrator is involved. The super-sized hammer hanging over one defendant's head may persuade the other(s) to cooperate, confess, etc. in exchange for a reduction in the excessive charges.

I'm only describing this would-be pragmatic approach, not extolling it.

FWIW, one absolutely reprehensible and indefensible variation of this type of overcharging is when prosecutors bluster that they intend to charge a pre-teen or early adolescent child accused of homicide "as an adult", purely as demagogic pandering to public outrage.
  #56  
Old 05-07-2020, 01:06 AM
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You shouldn't jump to that conclusion just because "Sharmel Lashe" and "Ramonyea Travon" are typical White Supremacist MAGA names!
I'm a bit confused..

just WHY would you say that an african-american family are "White Supremacist"?
  #57  
Old 05-07-2020, 05:18 AM
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I'm a bit confused..

just WHY would you say that an african-american family are "White Supremacist"?
Your sarcasm detector needs fine-tuning.
  #58  
Old 05-07-2020, 05:56 AM
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I'm a bit confused..

just WHY would you say that an african-american family are "White Supremacist"?
Whoosh!
  #59  
Old 05-07-2020, 12:09 PM
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Apparently those shoppers have started a trend:

Quote:
3 McDonald's workers hurt in customer attack over coronavirus limits, police say

Three workers at an Oklahoma City McDonald's were injured Wednesday by gunfire and a scuffle that appeared to have started because the restaurant's dining area was closed for social distancing during the coronavirus pandemic, police said.

Two of three were injured by gunfire and the third was hurt in a scuffle, said Lt. Michelle Henderson of the Oklahoma City Police Department.

The victims, two females and a male — two of them 17 — were hospitalized and in non-life-threatening condition, she said. Two customers, a man and a woman, were in custody.

"They were asked to leave, and they refused and produced a gun," Henderson said. The dining area "was closed because of the virus."

I guess Oklahomans are more comfortable being strapped. This crew did not have to rush home to fetch the weapon like their Michigan counterparts did.
  #60  
Old 05-07-2020, 05:30 PM
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This thread is a perfect example of the echo chamber this place has become, and the snap judgments many of you make about people in general, without knowing the complete picture. A lot of you fuckheads should be the subject of your own pit comments.

Last edited by Omar Little; 05-07-2020 at 05:31 PM.
  #61  
Old 05-07-2020, 05:34 PM
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Teach us, o Wise One!
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  #62  
Old 05-07-2020, 05:44 PM
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Teach us, o Wise One!
He just did.
  #63  
Old 05-07-2020, 06:04 PM
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Apparently those shoppers have started a trend:

I guess Oklahomans are more comfortable being strapped. This crew did not have to rush home to fetch the weapon like their Michigan counterparts did.
Actually she did leave and return (or at least was temporarily out of the store).
https://www.news9.com/story/5eb41f6a...nalds-shooting


My biggest problem with this is as a symtom of a spreading attitude that the only reason for me to behave myself is if there is a credible threat of violence against me; that "authority"means only the power to punish and hurt; that by establishing that you better not correct anyone's behavior for fear they'll shoot you, then I get to do whatever I damn please whenever and wherever, unless you are ready to get in a gunfight.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 05-07-2020 at 06:09 PM.
  #64  
Old 05-07-2020, 06:17 PM
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I dunno that I'd drag Trump into this. To my knowledge, he has said nothing about this particular incident.

But I've known more than a few big swinger types who can and do become aggressive, even violent, if they feel they are being "disrespected." From what I have heard, prison culture is big on this, and it's not limited to the inside of the joint; there's plenty of folks I could name, black or white, who feel perfectly comfortable starting a fight if they feel they're getting short shrift. Based on what I have read in the news on this incident, I gathered that this was very much a case of that.

That being said, I'm well aware that I don't have all the facts. I either have to believe that there's a whole lot that I'm missing, or that some clown genuinely felt that it was necessary to assassinate a guard in broad daylight for the heinous crime of refusing to admit someone without a mask.

Or, in an unrelated story, shoot up a McDonalds for being asked to leave a closed dining area.

I'm no Trump fan, but I don't know that I can blame him for all the poison stupidity I see around me. But if he were to say, "All of you, some creep wants you wear a mask? Pop a cap in his ass! They won't let you dine in? Strafe the room! Don't let them take away your rights! I'll pay your legal fees!"

...then I'd say "Hold the bastard accountable." And these days, there is literally no telling what he WILL say... but he didn't say that. Yet.
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  #65  
Old 05-07-2020, 07:32 PM
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He just did.
No, vague and inane "holier than thou" babblings do not teach anyone.
  #66  
Old 05-07-2020, 08:56 PM
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This thread is a perfect example of the echo chamber this place has become, and the snap judgments many of you make about people in general, without knowing the complete picture. A lot of you fuckheads should be the subject of your own pit comments.
Including you.
  #67  
Old 05-07-2020, 10:04 PM
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I'm no Trump fan, but I don't know that I can blame him for all the poison stupidity I see around me. But if he were to say, "All of you, some creep wants you wear a mask? Pop a cap in his ass! They won't let you dine in? Strafe the room! Don't let them take away your rights! I'll pay your legal fees!"

...then I'd say "Hold the bastard accountable." And these days, there is literally no telling what he WILL say... but he didn't say that. Yet.
This is the sort of thing that bugs me. Why in the world should the connection have to be that blatant and direct for someone to be blamed?

What Trump has done is not wear a mask himself at times when he should, directly attacked people who say they should wear masks, and directly supported the armed protesters who protested wearing masks,

What's more, we know that the COVID-19 protest situation was started by a PAC that is associated with his Secretary of Education. We know that the Facebook pages for multiple protests were owned by the same person. We know that the people at those protests were predominantly Trump supporters.

Trump is a president who is actively creating this artificial hatred for wearing masks.Even a moron would wear a mask if they think it was necessary, and, in a country with a civilized leader, the president would be part of pushing that. Instead, he's actively tried to undermine it every step of the way.

To ignore Trump's culpability in the anti-mask movement is silly. To pretend that he needs to actively condone specific instances of violence and not just the overall attitude that those asking you to wear a mask are tyrants is ridiculous.

It's like not blaming the incels who say women are subhuman when one of their own starts killing women, or not blaming the white supremacists when their preaching that other races are mere animals results in a follower killing them. It's the natural consequence of what they are saying.

If the people who say you should wear masks are tyrants, and we're taught that tyrants should be resisted with guns, then all it takes is for one person to put the two together.

Does it mean they aren't at fault? No. But to ignore that Trump played a part because he didn't directly tell them to go out and kill people is stupid.
  #68  
Old 05-07-2020, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Wang-Ka
I'm no Trump fan, but I don't know that I can blame him for all the poison stupidity I see around me. But if he were to say, "All of you, some creep wants you wear a mask? Pop a cap in his ass! They won't let you dine in? Strafe the room! Don't let them take away your rights! I'll pay your legal fees!"

...then I'd say "Hold the bastard accountable." And these days, there is literally no telling what he WILL say... but he didn't say that. Yet.
This is the sort of thing that bugs me. Why in the world should the connection have to be that blatant and direct for someone to be blamed?

What Trump has done is not wear a mask himself at times when he should, directly attacked people who say they should wear masks, and directly supported the armed protesters who protested wearing masks,

What's more, we know that the COVID-19 protest situation was started by a PAC that is associated with his Secretary of Education. We know that the Facebook pages for multiple protests were owned by the same person. We know that the people at those protests were predominantly Trump supporters.

Trump is a president who is actively creating this artificial hatred for wearing masks.Even a moron would wear a mask if they think it was necessary, and, in a country with a civilized leader, the president would be part of pushing that. Instead, he's actively tried to undermine it every step of the way.

To ignore Trump's culpability in the anti-mask movement is silly. To pretend that he needs to actively condone specific instances of violence and not just the overall attitude that those asking you to wear a mask are tyrants is ridiculous.

It's like not blaming the incels who say women are subhuman when one of their own starts killing women, or not blaming the white supremacists when their preaching that other races are mere animals results in a follower killing them. It's the natural consequence of what they are saying.

If the people who say you should wear masks are tyrants, and we're taught that tyrants should be resisted with guns, then all it takes is for one person to put the two together.

Does it mean they aren't at fault? No. But to ignore that Trump played a part because he didn't directly tell them to go out and kill people is stupid.
Thank you, BigT. I hope Master Wang-Ka thanks you also.

It's frustrating to encounter people unable to connect the dots as BigT does here.
  #69  
Old 05-07-2020, 11:57 PM
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Thank you, BigT. I hope Master Wang-Ka thanks you also.



It's frustrating to encounter people unable to connect the dots as BigT does here.
Agreed. Good job, BigT.
  #70  
Old 05-08-2020, 12:15 AM
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This is the sort of thing that bugs me. Why in the world should the connection have to be that blatant and direct for someone to be blamed?

What Trump has done is not wear a mask himself at times when he should, directly attacked people who say they should wear masks, and directly supported the armed protesters who protested wearing masks,...

Does it mean they aren't at fault? No. But to ignore that Trump played a part because he didn't directly tell them to go out and kill people is stupid.
Yes, trump is responsible for the culture in which this sort of thing happens. He aids and abets it.
  #71  
Old 05-08-2020, 09:21 AM
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If any of you think that everyone in the US would be wearing face masks, that everyone would even have face masks, and that nobody would act violently to a supposed "dissing" without Donald Trump, then you truly are idiots.

Last edited by Darren Garrison; 05-08-2020 at 09:21 AM.
  #72  
Old 05-08-2020, 09:28 AM
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I believe the store should have had some masks to offer their customers. Perhaps they couldn't obtain enough masks.
  #73  
Old 05-08-2020, 09:51 AM
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Yes, trump is responsible for the culture in which this sort of thing happens. He aids and abets it.
I agree that he aids and abets a general culture of stupidity, and of ridicule and resistance to these safety measures. That's clear from his tweets about liberating Michigan and other such idiocy. But that's very different from saying that he's responsible for this incident.

Try a thought experiment.

Imagine this pandemic happened 10 years ago, during the Obama administration. Leaving aside for a moment the fact that Obama would have been orders of magnitude more competent than Trump, we still would have been in a situation requiring lockdowns, quarantines, and social distancing. Do you seriously believe that there wouldn't have been exactly the same type of idiotic protests that we have seen in the past few weeks? Hell, given the right's, and especially the racist right's, pathological hatred of all things Obama, there probably would have been even more protests.

And do you think that the shooter in this case, or someone just like him, would have stopped and said, "You know, Obama tells us we need to wear masks, so I should cut this security guy a break and do what he says"? Sometimes a sociopath is just a sociopath, and it's silly to go looking for convoluted chains of responsibility when a sociopath takes a gun and kills someone over a minor disagreement like this.

Trump is a symptom, not a cause, and he's not responsible for this incident.
  #74  
Old 05-08-2020, 10:05 AM
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If any of you think that everyone in the US would be wearing face masks, that everyone would even have face masks, and that nobody would act violently to a supposed "dissing" without Donald Trump, then you truly are idiots.
Uhhh; since we're testing intelligence, Mr. Garrison, please write a 15-word essay on the following topic:

Compare the following statements. Do they have identical meaning?
(1) Nobody would be an asshole or act violently if Trump weren't President.
(2) The level of asshole-type violent behavior has risen because of Trump.


Thanks in advance, Mr. Garrison.
  #75  
Old 05-08-2020, 11:00 AM
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I believe the store should have had some masks to offer their customers. Perhaps they couldn't obtain enough masks.
I can think of a dozen reasons why this isn't even remotely practical.
  #76  
Old 05-08-2020, 11:14 AM
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I agree that he aids and abets a general culture of stupidity, and of ridicule and resistance to these safety measures. That's clear from his tweets about liberating Michigan and other such idiocy. But that's very different from saying that he's responsible for this incident.
It is discouraging to me that people do things like that whatever the circumstances. and that people continue to support a bully and jerk.
  #77  
Old 05-08-2020, 02:27 PM
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If any of you think that everyone in the US would be wearing face masks, that everyone would even have face masks, and that nobody would act violently to a supposed "dissing" without Donald Trump, then you truly are idiots.
Everyone has access to a mask of some sort, even if it just a bandanna. They werent checking for N95 masks- just something, anything. Just like where my wife works, you just need a lower face covering. And yes, you should always be wearing face masks when shopping in a store.
  #78  
Old 05-08-2020, 02:28 PM
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Uhhh; since we're testing intelligence, Mr. Garrison, please write a 15-word essay on the following topic:

Compare the following statements. Do they have identical meaning?
(1) Nobody would be an asshole or act violently if Trump weren't President.
(2) The level of asshole-type violent behavior has risen because of Trump.


Thanks in advance, Mr. Garrison.
Yep. Exactly.
  #79  
Old 05-08-2020, 02:49 PM
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Everyone has access to a mask of some sort, even if it just a bandanna. They werent checking for N95 masks- just something, anything. Just like where my wife works, you just need a lower face covering. And yes, you should always be wearing face masks when shopping in a store.
My God, but you're fucking obtuse and idiotic.

The question isn't about access. The point is that, under any president or administration, there would be some measurable percentage of the population that would refuse to make or obtain masks, and that would react stupidly to being required to wear a mask in stores. There would also be dangerous felons like the people in this story, who resort to violence when they feel disrespected.
  #80  
Old 05-08-2020, 03:14 PM
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As much as I would love to say Trump was responsible, if it would cost him one less vote.

But, there have been crazy episodes like this one, even before the Trump days.
  #81  
Old 05-08-2020, 03:18 PM
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My God, but you're fucking obtuse and idiotic.

The question isn't about access. The point is that, under any president or administration, there would be some measurable percentage of the population that would refuse to make or obtain masks, and that would react stupidly to being required to wear a mask in stores. There would also be dangerous felons like the people in this story, who resort to violence when they feel disrespected.

septimus
said it very well:

Compare the following statements. Do they have identical meaning?
(1) Nobody would be an asshole or act violently if Trump weren't President.
(2) The level of asshole-type violent behavior has risen because of Trump.



Was this one, isolated case influenced by trump? We will never know. But the overall "open" and "resist" movements have been pushed hard by trump. trump is aiding and abetting asshole covid resistance. Maybe this ONE incident would have happened anyway- but in general, the resistance to covid rules is caused by trump. Look at the pictures of MAGA hat wearing covidiots brandishing assault weapons "protesting" the restrictions. You think the trump signs and MAGA hats could be clues?
  #82  
Old 05-08-2020, 03:45 PM
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This place has gone to the pits in recent years, but I agree with Omar Little. Blaming the POTUS for this crime is beyond rational.

TDS:

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"In the first stage of the disease, victims lose all sense of proportion. The president-elect's every tweet provokes a firestorm, as if 140 characters were all it took to change the world."
"The mid-level stages of TDS have a profound effect on the victim's vocabulary: Sufferers speak a distinctive language consisting solely of hyperbole."
"As TDS progresses, the afflicted lose the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality."
  #83  
Old 05-08-2020, 04:11 PM
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This is the sort of thing that bugs me. Why in the world should the connection have to be that blatant and direct for someone to be blamed?

What Trump has done is not wear a mask himself at times when he should, directly attacked people who say they should wear masks, and directly supported the armed protesters who protested wearing masks,

What's more, we know that the COVID-19 protest situation was started by a PAC that is associated with his Secretary of Education. We know that the Facebook pages for multiple protests were owned by the same person. We know that the people at those protests were predominantly Trump supporters.

Trump is a president who is actively creating this artificial hatred for wearing masks.Even a moron would wear a mask if they think it was necessary, and, in a country with a civilized leader, the president would be part of pushing that. Instead, he's actively tried to undermine it every step of the way.

To ignore Trump's culpability in the anti-mask movement is silly. To pretend that he needs to actively condone specific instances of violence and not just the overall attitude that those asking you to wear a mask are tyrants is ridiculous.

It's like not blaming the incels who say women are subhuman when one of their own starts killing women, or not blaming the white supremacists when their preaching that other races are mere animals results in a follower killing them. It's the natural consequence of what they are saying.

If the people who say you should wear masks are tyrants, and we're taught that tyrants should be resisted with guns, then all it takes is for one person to put the two together.

Does it mean they aren't at fault? No. But to ignore that Trump played a part because he didn't directly tell them to go out and kill people is stupid.
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Thank you, BigT. I hope Master Wang-Ka thanks you also.

It's frustrating to encounter people unable to connect the dots as BigT does here.
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Originally Posted by needscoffee View Post
Agreed. Good job, BigT.
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Yes, trump is responsible for the culture in which this sort of thing happens. He aids and abets it.
Is there an echo in here?
  #84  
Old 05-08-2020, 04:11 PM
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This place has gone to the pits in recent years, but I agree with Omar Little. Blaming the POTUS for this crime is beyond rational.

TDS:
"TDS" is little more than an excuse for the right to gloss over anything their naked emperor does. Surely you can find a better term.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 05-08-2020 at 04:14 PM.
  #85  
Old 05-08-2020, 04:12 PM
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(1) Nobody would be an asshole or act violently if Trump weren't President.
(2) The level of asshole-type violent behavior has risen because of Trump.


If there was no asshole type violent behavior before Trump became President, both statements could be true.

Of course, there always has been this type of behavior, and there will be this type of behavior no matter who is President.
  #86  
Old 05-08-2020, 04:50 PM
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Some food for thought: To many Trump supporters, declining to wear a mask is a visible way to demonstrate “that ‘I’m a Republican’ or ‘I want businesses to start up again’ or ‘I support the president.’ ”
  #87  
Old 05-08-2020, 04:59 PM
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Last year was the Hottest on record. I blame trump. Now it's true, that even if we had Clinton for 4 years and signed the Paris accords and whatnot, we might have still had 2019 as the hottest on record- it takes a while for CO2 cuts to take effect.

But still- trump fights hard against any sort of relief for Global warming.

So- it's trumps fault. Like it or not. That's my stand, and I am sticking to it.
  #88  
Old 05-08-2020, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Uhhh; since we're testing intelligence, Mr. Garrison, please write a 15-word essay on the following topic:

Compare the following statements. Do they have identical meaning?
(1) Nobody would be an asshole or act violently if Trump weren't President.
(2) The level of asshole-type violent behavior has risen because of Trump.


Thanks in advance, Mr. Garrison.

You forgot to include the fact that Trump has actually called for violence, and not on a "hot microphone mishap". He's actually called for violence a number of times at various rallies and basked in his vigilantes' racist morons' supporters' reaction to such calls.
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Old 05-09-2020, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Last year was the Hottest on record. I blame trump. Now it's true, that even if we had Clinton for 4 years and signed the Paris accords and whatnot, we might have still had 2019 as the hottest on record- it takes a while for CO2 cuts to take effect.

But still- trump fights hard against any sort of relief for Global warming.

So- it's trumps fault. Like it or not. That's my stand, and I am sticking to it.
The only problem with your logic is that the cuts would have taken time to work, not "might have." So you have a definite falsehood.

In this other situation, we know for a fact that the anti-mask protests were pushed by Trump and his cronies and did not arise legitimately. We can look at other countries and see that those without a leader who undermines the science, barely any people protest this stuff. We can consider how people who aren't misled by lies tend to act in their own best interest.

Thus the proper analogy is one where we know that the cuts would have dropped the temperature by 2019. Sure, maybe there's a small fluke where the temps got naturally higher than they should and we still wound up the highest. But it's highly unlikely.

That's where we are here. It is highly unlikely that none of these threats were by Trump supporters. It is even less likely that they weren't influenced by the president saying it's okay to not wear masks. Y'all are taking the least likely scenario and treating it like it's greater than 50/50 chance. It's more like 99/1.

Or, to butcher a colloquial metaphor--when there's smoke, you don't run around saying it's probably not fire.
  #90  
Old 05-09-2020, 09:56 AM
Master Wang-Ka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhendo View Post
*snip* The point is that, under any president or administration, there would be some measurable percentage of the population that would refuse to make or obtain masks, and that would react stupidly to being required to wear a mask in stores. There would also be dangerous felons like the people in this story, who resort to violence when they feel disrespected.
I agree completely. Sure, Trump's a jackass, he won't wear a mask, and he's big on your second amendment rights, long as you're a Repubican voter.

But if Obama had been president right now, can you flat say, "This would never have happened?" Hell, there are people who, if Obama had said, "Hey, shooting preschoolers is a bad idea," they'd IMMEDIATELY go out and shoot up a preschool, "to own the libs."

This is a terrible thing, but to blame it on Trump is a stretch. That being said? Trump's an irresponsible asshole.
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