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Old 05-12-2020, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
Problems in trade
Trade in this text, means I do something for you, you do something for me.
Some people try to actually do something for the other when they trade, as being helpful to others makes them feel good in their life.
Others only focus on the position they will end up when they trade, or in in other words they think simply that their end justifies their means to get there.
Because the last ones are not interested in the "I do something for you" part of trade ,they make trade inefficient in society...because trade needs both "I do something for you, you do something for me" to work good.
Trade, by definition, is the exchange of goods and services that should be beneficial to both parties. It's not clear what you mean by some parties focusing on what they get out of the deal - that's the primary focus of anyone involved in trade or purchase. If I buy a gallon of milk at the store, I'm exchanging money that I earned for a product. I'm doing something for the store (paying them $3.99) and they are doing something for me (supplying me a gallon of milk). How would I do something else for the store?

I think you need to give some specific examples of what these "bad" trades look like and why you think one or both parties are obligated to no seek the best deal for themselves.
  #52  
Old 05-12-2020, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
I know, the argument is not very descriptive of the specific details, but it seems to me the details are summarized in the stories for the Sad Jokers, the Holly, the powerful, I'm trying to see if I'm forgetting something, that plays differently in history.
Alex,

Before we go any further, WHO the fuck is Holly and what's she done to deserve the definite article? Is she a shrubbery?
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 05-12-2020 at 07:28 AM.
  #53  
Old 05-12-2020, 08:04 AM
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Hi Czarcasm,

Quote:
Why is there a question in your conclusion,
Quote:
and what "family" is your final sentence referring to?
Regarding what family is referring to:
The ones who misbehave have three types of families they can belong in.
1. Their biological family or ... just their family.
This is the obvious family they belong into, they didn't choose it.
2. Their work/business family, meaning the company or organisation they belong into
This is a group they belong into, part because of necessity, part because they chose to to do so.
3. Their "kindred spirits" family, meaning a group of people with a certain ideology, which they openly support.
This is an ideology they belong into and have sympathy for other people with a similar ideology. This they chose themselves.
or in short the word "family", casts a wide net.

Regarding the question, let me rephrase the argument:
People who misbehave belong, as most people, in at least three families as mentioned above.
a person has a biological family, a job and colleagues , and finally some views he/she openly believes together with the rest people who have similar views.
These families should deal with the people who misbehave, or else completely unknown people may appear and do to those families what no one shouldn't do, until they change their minds and actions.
One can think of ways that these families could protect themselves rather than reforming their members who misbehave, but in the end, laws are written down in society, and everyone is expected to follow them.
These families also have quite some influence in writing down laws (families of wealth, reputation and power), but in the end it is actions of the rest people in society which is what happens.
For example, parts of a city may have open drug use and crime, in other parts there is drug use and crime but not publicly, and finally some are clean.
They are all under the same law, but the effect of the law in each case is different, and one can experience it in real life.
What I mean is that, laws are in effect where most people follow them, and few misbehave, where people don't follow laws they are not in effect, and nature takes over.
This is the reason why a poor neighborhood with violence is a bad choice for one to live in, even if he/she isn't poor, or violent. Nature has taken over law, and people do what they need to do to live their lives...and they do so in such neighborhoods.
If one comes to stab you on the street, your body does not allow you to try to remain as calm as you were before, because, this isn't what you should at that time and occasion.
At the same time there are those who love pushing others, because "no one will tell them what to do", and since the rest people are trying to behave, the rest people are being pushed to varying degrees depending on the time and occasion.
In the end, if you push someone enough, there is a point where one loses his/her patience and nature takes over.
So the story goes, some Jokers like constantly pushing others regardless of how others feel, and in the end hurt other people

the people who are hurt...well...at a certain point may lose it and end up hurting others...and the epic saga continues.
Even though this spell of misery and hate propagates,society stabilizes in every day life to pretty peaceful if you do your job and don't try to hurt anyone. Because most people don't want to hurt others.
So, why don't we close the epic saga, with an initial warning to the ones who misbehave, regardless of any position, gods, magic spells they have, and allow nature to do its work, where this is needed?
The question in the end remains, because this may look to me just...but I honestly don't know...I am trying to get another's persons view.
But if I understand it correctly, what can one tell to someone who says "No one will tell me what to do", which fits some characters in life.
It seems to me that no one should tell them "What no one shouldn't do", and those who understood, understood, and those who say they don't will, one way or the other...isn't this what happens with people who push it too far in nature?

Last edited by AlexPontik; 05-12-2020 at 08:09 AM.
  #54  
Old 05-12-2020, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Before we go any further, WHO the fuck is Holly and what's she done to deserve the definite article? Is she a shrubbery?
It's cold outside, there's no kind of atmosphere

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holly_(Red_Dwarf)
  #55  
Old 05-12-2020, 08:18 AM
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Hi Czarcasm,

Quote:
Why is there a question in your conclusion,
Quote:
and what "family" is your final sentence referring to?
Regarding what family is referring to:
The ones who misbehave have three types of families they can belong in.
1. Their biological family or ... just their family.
This is the obvious family they belong into, they didn't choose it.
2. Their work/business family, meaning the company or organisation they belong into
This is a group they belong into, part because of necessity, part because they chose to to do so.
3. Their "kindred spirits" family, meaning a group of people with a certain ideology, which they openly support.
This is an ideology they belong into and have sympathy for other people with a similar ideology. This they chose themselves.
or in short the word "family", casts a wide net.

Regarding the question, let me rephrase the argument:
People who misbehave belong, as most people, in at least three families as mentioned above.
a person has a biological family, a job and colleagues , and finally some views he/she openly believes together with the rest people who have similar views.
These families should deal with the people who misbehave, or else completely unknown people may appear and do to those families what no one shouldn't do, until they change their minds and actions.
One can think of ways that these families could protect themselves rather than reforming their members who misbehave, but in the end, laws are written down in society, and everyone is expected to follow them.
These families also have quite some influence in writing down laws (families of wealth, reputation and power), but in the end it is actions of the rest people in society on what happens.
For example, parts of a city may have open drug use and crime, in other parts there is drug use and crime but not publicly, and finally some are clean.
They are all under the same law, but the effect of the law in each case is different, and one can experience it in real life.
What I mean is that, laws are in effect where most people follow them, and few misbehave, where people don't follow laws they are not in effect, and nature takes over.
This is the reason why a poor neighborhood with violence is a bad choice for one to live in, even if he/she isn't poor, or violent. Nature has taken over law, and people do what they need to do to live their lives...and so they do in such neighborhoods.
If one comes to stab you on the street, your body does not allow you to try to remain as calm as you were before, because, that isn't what you should at that time and occasion.
At the same time there are those who love pushing others, because "no one will tell them what to do", and since the rest people are trying to behave, the rest people are being pushed to varying degrees depending on the time and occasion.
In the end, if you push someone enough, there is a point where one loses his/her patience and nature takes over.
So the story goes, some sad Jokers like constantly pushing others regardless of how others feel, and in the end hurt other people
People who are hurt by the sad jokers...well...at a certain point may lose it and end up hurting others...and the epic saga continues.
Even though this spell of misery and hate propagates,society stabilizes in every day life to pretty peaceful if you do your job and don't try to hurt anyone. Because most people don't want to hurt others.
So, why don't we close the epic saga, with an initial warning to the sad jokers who misbehave, regardless of any position, gods, magic spells they have, and allow nature to do its work, where this is needed?
The question remains in the end, because I am looking for others people's views.
It seems to me that to the sad joker who say "no one will tell me what to do", no one should come back and tell them "what no one shouldn't do", so that they stop being sad, and keep hijacking society.
  #56  
Old 05-12-2020, 08:30 AM
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What's the frequency, Alex?
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 05-12-2020 at 08:30 AM.
  #57  
Old 05-12-2020, 08:48 AM
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OK, Alex. I'm not seeing a real debate here.

All love to trying, but I'm going to close this and you can try again - more coherently - later.
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