View Poll Results: Would you want your team to "be like the 1990s Atlanta Braves"?
Yes 29 85.29%
No 1 2.94%
I just like voting in polls 4 11.76%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 05-05-2020, 01:13 PM
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Would you like the team you root for to have a long stretch of reaching the postseason?


In another thread, someone mentioned that people probably wouldn't want their team to be like the Atlanta Braves of the 1990s - a team that made the playoffs 14 of 15 seasons, made the World Series three times, and won the whole thing once.

I'm of the opinion that the postseason is a month and a half that consists of about 60% luck, and I'd love for my team to consistently make the playoffs. I root for the teams in Kansas City, the Royals and the Chiefs. Both have had recent instances of winning their championships, but not after incredibly long stretches of little success. The Royals went 29 years without reaching the post-season, and the Chefs managed to go 50 years between Super Bowl wins (and 21 years between playoff wins).
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Old 05-05-2020, 01:27 PM
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I'm a Dodgers fan and I'm completely down with their domination recently. I wasn't happy with Maddenly due to his ignorance of statistical baseball but their on the field performance was great. Replacing him with Doc Roberts was a step in the right direction and I couldn't be happier with team management. Sure it would be better if we won the World Series but I'll settle for 105 win a year for the next decade.

The concept that if you don't win it all you're a loser is crazy to me. The playoffs are basically random.

I'm also a 49ers fan and I was completely content with the Harbaugh era and it looks like we're set up for another great run. When I was in high school I made fun of the Bills but now I realize how special that 91-94 run was.
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Old 05-05-2020, 01:43 PM
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In baseball Im an Angels fan (raised in the OC) and 2002 will be branded into my neurons forever. It wouldnt be nearly as joyful if they had runs like the Yankees. In football Im a Raiders fan and those 3 SB wins and those amazing cast of characters were awesome. Im also a Lakers fan and winning championships is expected so not nearly as special.

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  #4  
Old 05-05-2020, 01:55 PM
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Yes, I would be like it if my team was consistently pretty good. Making the playoffs consistently is a good sign of that.

I am also a Detroit Lions fan. I obviously do not pick teams to root for based on being good.
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Old 05-05-2020, 02:12 PM
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Isn't that what "rooting for" means? That you want them to win?
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Old 05-05-2020, 02:53 PM
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The White Sox have been around for twelve decades and have never once made the post-season in consecutive years. So if there's anything to dislike about it, I certainly wouldn't know.
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Old 05-05-2020, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munch View Post
In another thread, someone mentioned that people probably wouldn't want their team to be like the Atlanta Braves of the 1990s - a team that made the playoffs 14 of 15 seasons, made the World Series three times, and won the whole thing once.
And I don't think that that person was even a Yankees fan.

Obviously, he's one of those fans that place an inordinate emphasis on winning the World Series. Now I am a Yankees fan, and while it would be great to win another series (like they say, you can never be too rich, too thin, or have too many rings) I'm glad they're a contender nearly every year. That's really all any fan should hope for.
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Old 05-05-2020, 06:59 PM
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I am 100% a fair-weather fan. So, yep. I shallowly get most of any contact high off winning, not the simple act of competition. If "my" team(s) isn't winning or at least reasonably competitive consistently I just don't watch nearly as much. Sometimes not at all. For example I watched several Warriors games this past season, but after a certain point I shrugged and started deleting them off my DVR unless I read it was a particularly good game for some reason. So I continued to read about them, but I was a lot less interested in watching them.

I mean I like sports, but I'm not genuinely addicted nor particularly loyal to any of them. I'm really more of a mild enthusiast than a fan . There are plenty of other things to watch or spend my time on.

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  #9  
Old 05-05-2020, 07:11 PM
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Answering 'Yes' in the poll means you want your team to make it to the playoffs consistently but only once winning a World Series. Have fun with that. And I am definitely not a Yankees fan, and voting 'Yes' also means you want your team to beat the Yankees in game 1 and 2 of the World Series in New York, then lose 4 straight to them. Your teams can use better fans.
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Old 05-05-2020, 07:53 PM
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Answering 'Yes' in the poll means you want your team to make it to the playoffs consistently but only once winning a World Series. Have fun with that.
Replace World Series with Super Bowl and I would be ecstatic for 15 straight years in the playoffs and a single championship. The Super Bowl win I might regret ...when my week long celebration bender finally ends.

I say again, I am a Lions fan.
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Old 05-05-2020, 07:59 PM
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Wow! I can't believe so many people want their teams to lose the big games. I want my teams to go all the way every year.
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Old 05-05-2020, 07:59 PM
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Well, of course. Nitpick; Atlanta made it to 4 World Series, not three.

From 1991 to 2005 the Braves won 14 division titles in a row (the 1994 season didn't get finished; they would have likely finished second but would have won the Wild Card anyway) but "only" one World Series. That's not a failure to win the World Series enough; it's a success in winning stuff in the other 13 years. There are 30 teams in the majors (there were 26 in 1991, then 28 in 1993-1997, but close enough) so the AVERAGE team can only hope to win it once every 30 years. Many teams, of course, have never won it at all; Seattle has never even been in one in 43 years, and a number of other teams are still waiting for a title. Some teams have won it, but have waited longer than 30 years.

So, I read the OP as asking "would you like your team to win a World Series in the next 14 years?" You'd be insane not to say yes to that question - especially if it's never happened in your lifetime. As a Blue Jays fan I can tell you the 1992 win was one of the highlights of my life, and as a Raptors fan I can tell you that if I ever doubted my memory of how much that 1992 World Series meant to me, 2019 told me that nope, it really did. It's something a fan remembers for life, and it brings a certain aura of satisfaction to the whole experience.
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  #13  
Old 05-05-2020, 08:35 PM
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One of my favorite teams, the Cowboys, used to fit the Braves description. The Cowboys had twenty consecutive winning seasons (an NFL record that still stands) in the 1960s-1980s, but only won two Super Bowls. They were as consistent winners as consistent could be, but almost always seemed to fall barely short on the threshold of a championship.

Another 1990s team was also like the Braves; the Phoenix Suns. In fact, even into the 2000s, the Suns were still consistently good, just could never get past the Spurs or Lakers.
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:36 PM
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One big difference between the Braves and the Suns though.
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Old 05-05-2020, 09:45 PM
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Wow! I can't believe so many people want their teams to lose the big games. I want my teams to go all the way every year.
Sure, I'm much happier when the 9ers win the superbowl but the years the make the game and lose are more fun than they years they don't make the game at all.

In baseball the regular season is much more important and winning 100+ games stretches the fun all summer. Knowing every day when I turn on the game I'm going to get to watch my team win is a lot of fun and on the rare occasions they lose knowing that they won't lose again tomorrow makes the losses easier. Having a great season like that naturally ended in making the playoffs. Losing in game seven of the world series was hard but I still remember watching that whole series and it was some of the most fun I've had. Watching an 18 inning game between two teams I didn't care about wouldn't be nearly as memorable. Sure, the cheating bastards won and it would have been better if the dodgers had won but that was 99% of what I could dream about for a season, and then I got 99% of that the next year and then I got 80% last year combined. Over those 3 seasons I'd bet I had more fun than any of the astros fans.
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Old 05-05-2020, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
Wow! I can't believe so many people want their teams to lose the big games. I want my teams to go all the way every year.
Well, sorry, but NO SHIT. Pretty much all sports fans want their team to win it all every year, and if you're interpreting any of us to be saying otherwise, I think you're mistaken.

In retrospect, yes, the 1990s Braves were, at a certain level, underperformers, and given how many times that they made the postseason (and the World Series), yeah, probably, they should have won it all more than they did. But, I don't think that, at the time, Braves fans looked at the start of every postseason, and said, "Oh, sure, we made the playoffs, but we aren't going to win it all, so it doesn't matter."

Once you get to the postseason, weird things happen, and the best team in any given league often *doesn't* wind up winning the championship that season. But, if a team makes it to the playoffs, they at least have a chance, and it gives their fans something extra to get excited about. If you don't make the playoffs, obviously, you have *no* chance.

I lived through the Packers of the 1970s and 1980s, who were, for the most part, mediocre to terrible. My team had exactly 2 playoff appearance, and only one playoff win, in 20 years.

Over the past 28 years, the Packers have been competitive most of the time, have made the playoffs most seasons, and have two Super Bowl rings. Yeah, maybe they should have more than that, and maybe they've squandered some of Aaron Rodgers' best seasons. OTOH, it's been a lot better era to be a Packer fan than it was when I was a kid.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 05-05-2020 at 10:09 PM.
  #17  
Old 05-05-2020, 10:37 PM
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Wow! I can't believe so many people want their teams to lose the big games. I want my teams to go all the way every year.
Nobody said they want their team to lose. There is no poll option in this thread, "hoist the trophy every single year."

The choice is, either have many winning seasons but relatively few titles, versus...........something worse.
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Old 05-06-2020, 12:14 AM
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Wow! I can't believe so many people want their teams to lose the big games. I want my teams to go all the way every year.
What you're missing is that most teams don't even get the chance to be in the big games. Since 1991, only six teams have won more than one World Series (and seven have won just one). The only team to have been in more World Series than the Braves in that stretch is the Yankees. Even with just one Series win, the Braves have done far better than most teams in that period.
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Old 05-06-2020, 12:16 AM
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The choice is, either have many winning seasons but relatively few titles, versus...........something worse.
A related question is, before 2004, would you rather have been a Red Sox fan or a Cubs fan? The Red Sox would reach the World Series but lose, while the Cubs would never get there at all.
  #20  
Old 05-06-2020, 01:24 AM
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Yes. Florida State football spent years being very competitive but often snakebit. Wide rights or other fluke losses. Still, it was nice supporting a team which I knew would be competitive every year.

How about Liverpool Football club? Haven’t won the Premier League, always a consistent team, amazing season this year and then......
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  #21  
Old 05-06-2020, 02:06 AM
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A related question is, before 2004, would you rather have been a Red Sox fan or a Cubs fan? The Red Sox would reach the World Series but lose, while the Cubs would never get there at all.
Yup. Sox for sure.


Or to put it another way, it was a whole lot more fun being a 1990-1993 Bills fan than a 1990-1993 Cardinals or Lions fan.

Last edited by Velocity; 05-06-2020 at 02:08 AM.
  #22  
Old 05-06-2020, 06:14 AM
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Would you like the team you root for to have a long stretch of reaching the postseason?


This is a trick question, right? LOL
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  #23  
Old 05-06-2020, 07:09 AM
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I'd rather not be a perennial playoff team if I get more championships out of the fewer appearances. For example, I'd take a paltry 6 playoff appearances every 20 years if it also comes with 2 Superbowl wins every 20 years. I'd rather that than 16+ playoff appearances but only 0-1 championships every 20 years.

I say this because that's my actual experience as a Giants fan. Sometimes good for maybe a 4-5 year stretch, other times bad for a decade plus. But in those 4-5 year stretches they've now stolen two Superbowl wins twice, two decades apart. If they stay on track, getting good around 2025 and then winning a couple Superbowls, I'm fine with the decades of suck in between. In my mind, I still have 8 years to wait:

1986, 1990
2007, 2011
2028, 2032

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  #24  
Old 05-06-2020, 07:18 AM
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TriPolar, the question isn't whether we want our team to lose the championship, and I have no idea where you're getting that from. The question is whether we want them to make it to the postseason. Which is a prerequisite for winning the championship. If you vote "no", then you're saying that you don't want your team to make it to the postseason.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:26 AM
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TriPolar, the question isn't whether we want our team to lose the championship, and I have no idea where you're getting that from. The question is whether we want them to make it to the postseason. Which is a prerequisite for winning the championship. If you vote "no", then you're saying that you don't want your team to make it to the postseason.
To be fair, it can be a difficult question to parse. Are we asking would we have been happy rooting for a team that just finished a 15 year run of incredible regular season success, and 1 championship, or are we being asked would we be happy rooting for this hypothetical run for the next 15 years? For me, those really are the same thing - but I can see how maybe if you're a Giants fan (NY or SF), or (ugh) a Yankees fan, that changes the calculus.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:45 AM
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But the "and one championship" isn't part of the question at all.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:57 AM
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But the "and one championship" isn't part of the question at all.
The question I posed in the poll is "Would you want your team to "be like the 1990s Atlanta Braves"?" and I then expounded on what exactly the 1990s Atlanta Braves did in my OP.
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Old 05-06-2020, 08:06 AM
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Of course, if I take the "90s" part literally, it's better than I thought. The 1990s Atlanta Braves only played nine completed seasons, made the postseason eight times, and won the 1995 World Series. I'll take a World Series every nine years, thanks. That's a better ratio of championships to seasons than any franchise in the sport except the Yankees.
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Old 05-06-2020, 08:26 AM
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The Nationals finished over .500 every season since 2012, won the division 4 times, and made the playoffs 5 times. That falls short of what the Braves, and more recently the Dodgers, accomplished. Even without what happened in October, I would have been ok with that. I think the WS win will lessen the sting of future sub .500 seasons that will probably come sooner than later; this is an old team.
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Old 05-06-2020, 10:35 AM
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Well, sorry, but NO SHIT. Pretty much all sports fans want their team to win it all every year, and if you're interpreting any of us to be saying otherwise, I think you're mistaken.

In retrospect, yes, the 1990s Braves were, at a certain level, underperformers, and given how many times that they made the postseason (and the World Series), yeah, probably, they should have won it all more than they did. But, I don't think that, at the time, Braves fans looked at the start of every postseason, and said, "Oh, sure, we made the playoffs, but we aren't going to win it all, so it doesn't matter."

Once you get to the postseason, weird things happen, and the best team in any given league often *doesn't* wind up winning the championship that season. But, if a team makes it to the playoffs, they at least have a chance, and it gives their fans something extra to get excited about. If you don't make the playoffs, obviously, you have *no* chance.

I lived through the Packers of the 1970s and 1980s, who were, for the most part, mediocre to terrible. My team had exactly 2 playoff appearance, and only one playoff win, in 20 years.

Over the past 28 years, the Packers have been competitive most of the time, have made the playoffs most seasons, and have two Super Bowl rings. Yeah, maybe they should have more than that, and maybe they've squandered some of Aaron Rodgers' best seasons. OTOH, it's been a lot better era to be a Packer fan than it was when I was a kid.
This. only one team wins every year. But post season tailgates are a lot more fun that watching somebody else's team play in the 1st round.
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  #31  
Old 05-09-2020, 12:35 PM
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Wow! I can't believe so many people want their teams to lose the big games.
Lions fan

In the 54 years of the Super Bowl era they have only made the playoffs 12 times. Five of those were during the decade of milk, honey, and Barry Sanders. In the 44 years without Sanders the Lions managed just seven playoff appearances. Their sole playoff win was in 1991 season with Sanders.

I just want my team to be in big games.

Last edited by DinoR; 05-09-2020 at 12:36 PM.
  #32  
Old 05-10-2020, 12:26 PM
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I lived through the Packers of the 1970s and 1980s, who were, for the most part, mediocre to terrible.
Yep. And all those years they went 8-8 and had they won the last game of the year they’d have snagged a wild card. It was maddening.

The Pack have consistently made the post season for 2 decades now. Only 3 Super Bowl appearances and just 2 wins. But I’ll take that over 20 years of almost no play off appearances at all.

And those horrible seasons they had in the 70’s and 80’s? There’s nothing worse than it only being week 7 and your team is already eliminated from contention. It sucks!

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  #33  
Old 05-11-2020, 10:50 AM
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The question I posed in the poll is "Would you want your team to "be like the 1990s Atlanta Braves"?" and I then expounded on what exactly the 1990s Atlanta Braves did in my OP.
In fairness, your topic title is also just "Would you like the team you root for to have a long stretch of reaching the postseason?" which makes no mention of number of championships.
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Old 05-11-2020, 12:19 PM
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Yep. And all those years they went 8-8 and had they won the last game of the year theyd have snagged a wild card. It was maddening.

The Pack have consistently made the post season for 2 decades now. Only 3 Super Bowl appearances and just 2 wins. But Ill take that over 20 years of almost no play off appearances at all.
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In the NFL it's kind of a no-brainer. Less than half the league has had more than 1 one win in a 15 year stretch. Only 6 teams have gotten more than 2 wins in a stretch.
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:23 PM
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I'm thinking of this as NY Giants fan. Over the last 10 years the team won 1 Super Bowl (yay!), and outside of that year, appeared in 1 playoff game, that they got crushed in (wah!).

Would you trade that one SB win for 10 years of high quality football where maybe you don't win it all?

Before you say no... the team has been unwatchable for 3 years, and before one brief dip into the post season in 2016, were barely .500 for a few seasons before that. It's a drag, and winning in 2011 seems really far away.
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Old 05-11-2020, 10:38 PM
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Uh, making the playoffs is a prerequisite for winning a championship. If this is really a "would you rather..." question, I guess I'd take the one championship over no championships, but that's not how it works in real life.

Rivaling the Braves, the San Jose Sharks have missed qualifying for the Stanley Cup Playoffs only twice since the 1997-98 season - 19 of 21 seasons, one playoff was canceled for a lockout when the Sharks roster was stacked. Is twenty years of 82 crappy games each year really worth the one championship?
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Old 05-12-2020, 06:15 AM
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In the NFL it's kind of a no-brainer. Less than half the league has had more than 1 one win in a 15 year stretch. Only 6 teams have gotten more than 2 wins in a stretch.
I think of it as if you could magically have chosen your team's performance over the last 20 years, would you rather have experienced the past 20 years for the Buccaneers or Bengals?

The Bucs have been shitty for much of the past 20 years, but they do have a Superbowl win. The Bengals made it to the playoffs every year for like a decade, but not a single playoff win.

I'd pick the Bucs instead of the Bengals without hesitation.

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I'm thinking of this as NY Giants fan. Over the last 10 years the team won 1 Super Bowl (yay!), and outside of that year, appeared in 1 playoff game, that they got crushed in (wah!).
That's a very odd time frame to choose. The Giants have one Superbowl win over the past 10 years, true, but they also have 2 Superbowl wins over the past 13 seasons. Does the 2007 win not count for some reason?

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 05-12-2020 at 06:16 AM.
  #38  
Old 05-13-2020, 11:24 AM
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I think of it as if you could magically have chosen your team's performance over the last 20 years, would you rather have experienced the past 20 years for the Buccaneers or Bengals?

The Bucs have been shitty for much of the past 20 years, but they do have a Superbowl win. The Bengals made it to the playoffs every year for like a decade, but not a single playoff win.

I'd pick the Bucs instead of the Bengals without hesitation.
That's not the right question though. Of course if you could "choose" to force a 20 year historical outcome, you might say, take a championship versus none at all. But from a living your life as it plays out POV, if you rephrased this not as having foreknowledge built in to the decision but weighing the total statisticsal JAR (Joy Above Replacement Level) -- are you a sports fan to experience the highest high, or also to avoid misery?

Because that would boil down to how miserable as a fan you are to have "19 years of being shitty", which in turn boils down to how invested you are overall. If for example, you never even bother to really "tune in" until halfway or more through the season, and you then surface for air and say "so how're the Bucs doing this year? - bad as usual? *change channel*" - then the pain of yet another slog of a losing season is more or less background noise in your life, and it won't weigh as much against the thrill of riding a post-season run to the championship that one time.

But if you are the kind of fan to spend all summer griping about moves the Bucs made, fantasing that the prospects they have coming up or players they've signed or traded for might turn a corner and do something amazing, watch every game and follow every headline until they are well and truly done, and then continue to think about "well at least X was good, maybe next year..." throughout the end of the season and into the post-season....

...Then I would say that NOT being miserable and sarcastic except for the last game or two of the playoffs, and being energized, invested, and excited for the entire regular season (and off-season) for most of 20 years, is worth more than a 1-in-20 miracle run that you then eventually feel a bit bitter about ("why did they let X go, he was key!", "...and Y was never the same player before or since", etc.).
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Old 05-13-2020, 12:09 PM
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My Kansas City Royals had a long stretch in which they won two American League pennants and one World Championship. If that had come with fifteen years of playoff losses rather than fifteen years of crap, I think I would be able to live with it.
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  #40  
Old 05-13-2020, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Dee View Post
That's a very odd time frame to choose.
It's both a round number and the time since their last playoff win. I'm not saying their other wins don't matter, but over a long stretch of time would you prefer 1 championship followed up by irrelevance, or would you prefer to be perennially "in it"?

It's the difference between the Giants and the Yankees lately. The Giants have more recently won championships, but it feels a lot more like they are a mismanaged team that stumbled into the win, while the Yankees haven't won as recently, but are usually knocking on the door to make a run. Yeah, not winning is a disappointment, but with the Yanks, I'm not giving up on the season a third of the way through.
  #41  
Old 05-13-2020, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak View Post
It's both a round number and the time since their last playoff win. I'm not saying their other wins don't matter, but over a long stretch of time would you prefer 1 championship followed up by irrelevance, or would you prefer to be perennially "in it"?
I still don't understand why you're saying "1 championship." The Giants won 2 in recent memory. Do you think of the Patriots as having won 6 Superbowls in this era or 4? It would never occur to me to make a statement along of the lines of "The Patriots have won 4 Supebowls in the past 10 years" since their 6-ring run has all essentially been a single era. Or was, now that Brady's gone.

Quote:
It's the difference between the Giants and the Yankees lately. The Giants have more recently won championships, but it feels a lot more like they are a mismanaged team that stumbled into the win, while the Yankees haven't won as recently, but are usually knocking on the door to make a run. Yeah, not winning is a disappointment, but with the Yanks, I'm not giving up on the season a third of the way through.
I hear what you're saying, and don't fully disagree. But I think there's a distinctly different experience between something like the Yankees now vs that playoff streak with the Bengals. After the 3rd or 4th straight one-and-done in the playoffs, I don't think anyone truly believed that the Bengals could win a playoff game. The Yankees could go on a run and it wouldn't surprise many people.

I mean, if you get roughly the same championships either way, I don't think there's any question, of course you want more playoff runs. Nobody would pick the Bucs over the Eagles, for example.

I'm 50 later this year, and let's say I'm consciously aware of the NFL by 10. I would choose the past 40 years of the Giants over the Packers without hesitation. Way fewer playoff runs, but double the rings: Two per era instead of one.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 05-13-2020 at 12:38 PM.
  #42  
Old 05-13-2020, 01:20 PM
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I was a die-hard Chicago Cubs fan until they won the World Series. Since then, I doubt I've watched more than a few outs, of any baseball team. For me, it was like, the Cubs not winning the World Series was the Cubs' "Thing." Once they no longer had there "Thing," I felt like there was nowhere else for me to go as a Cubs fan.

I may yet develop an interest in the Cubs, and baseball, again, but for now I'm all about the soccer.

Speaking of soccer, my team, the USMNT, has made the "postseason" (where "postseason" refers to the FIFA World Cup) some number of years out of some other number of years since I've been old enough to care. They have not won a (the) championship, and aren't likely to do so any time soon.
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