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Old 05-23-2020, 10:22 PM
Dale Sams is offline
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Baseball rules Q...not even sure if an MLB ump could answer this


3-2 count, umps lose count of balls when another ball is thrown. So now its 4-2. The umps have lost count, and so has everyone else. Another pitch is thrown and a HR is hit....

NOW. The coach of the team in the field realizes what has happened and brings it to the umps attention. What happens???

Same situation but the batter hits a foul ball and the count is still 4-2 and the batter realizes whats happened and and brings it to the umps attention. In theory the result should be the same as above. Whatever that is.
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:32 PM
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If I'm remembering correctly, an appeal has to be made before the next pitch is thrown.
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:35 PM
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From here.
Quote:
The appeal must be immediate. An appeal must take place before the next pitch, an intervening play or attempted play, or before the defense leaves the field. Note that an attempt to make an appeal is not a play in itself, so making one appeal does not prevent the defense from making a second appeal if more than one appealable infraction occurred. The "defense leaving the field" is defined as when all members of the defense have crossed the foul line on their way to dugout or bench.
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running coach View Post
If I'm remembering correctly, an appeal has to be made before the next pitch is thrown.
Makes sense. So in the first case its a HR, and the second its a walk cause the count is still 4-2? That seems fair (no sarcasm)
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:41 PM
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I would read it as the HR stands, the count is 3-2. in both cases, the 4-2 count was not brought to the umpire's attention before the next pitch.
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:25 PM
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Of course a ML ump could answer it, because if there's no rule that covers it, the ump is specifically allowed to rule on things that are not covered by the rules.
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Old 05-24-2020, 04:46 PM
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I was going to say, Rule Zero takes effect immediately.
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Old 05-24-2020, 04:59 PM
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Not rule zero exactly. It's 8.01(c) "Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules."
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Old 05-24-2020, 05:37 PM
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Rule 8.03(a) says the home plate umpire is responsible for "calling and counting" balls and strikes. Miscounting balls and strikes is, to my mind, therefore an appeal decision as per 8.02(b).
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:30 PM
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Let's look at the actual rules about appeals
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLB official rules
8.02 (c) ... If the umpires consult after a play and change a call that had been made, then they have the authority to take all steps that they may deem necessary, in their discretion, to eliminate the results and consequences of the earlier call that they are reversing, including placing runners where they think those runners would have been after the play, had the ultimate call been made as the initial call, [...]
Notwithstanding the foregoing, correction of a missed ball-strike count shall not be permitted after a pitch is thrown to a subsequent batter, or in the case of the final batter of an inning or game, after all infielders of the defensive team leave fair territory.
So the second part explicitly mentions a missed ball-strike count, and says that it cannot be corrected after the next batter (or the defensive team leaves), which very strongly implies that a correction CAN be made before then, even if another pitch has been thrown to the same batter.

Then the first part says the umpires can put things how they should have been had the call been right.

So my reading is that the rules pretty clearly say that in the OP's situations the umpires could and should take away the HR or foul ball and award a walk to the batter.
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