#51  
Old 05-27-2020, 08:21 PM
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Maybe that's because there's a reason for it - Trump is ethically far worse, far more incompetent and far more dangerous than the Chinese leadership.
Is Trump locking up a million Muslims, subjecting them to rape and torture, harvesting organs from prisoners, sending out riot police to assault protesters, installing a social credit system akin to Black Mirror's Nosedive, executing a thousand people per year?

You might say Trump is detaining migrants, etc. - but the term here was "far worse."
  #52  
Old 05-27-2020, 08:23 PM
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Yes, they DO.
Hmmm, bolding, capital letters, and italics. Those are persuasive arguments and I'm almost convinced. Maybe if you underlined it and increased the font size. Or used some red.

But for now, I'll stick with the real world. States don't vote. People vote.
  #53  
Old 05-27-2020, 08:24 PM
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Is Trump locking up a million Muslims, subjecting them to rape and torture, harvesting organs from prisoners, sending out riot police to assault protesters, installing a social credit system akin to Black Mirror's Nosedive, executing a thousand people per year?

You might say Trump is detaining migrants, etc. - but the term here was "far worse."
That thousand is only the official number of course. The Chinese do...officially...over 10k organ transplants a year, and there is speculation it could be 5 or more times that. The Chinese people aren't really keen on organ donation either. Plus, amazingly, when people (with money) need a transplant, one can be found in days, if not hours. Chinese medicine is truly something to behold...
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  #54  
Old 05-27-2020, 08:28 PM
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It literally was back in 1787.
And we are literally living in the year 2020. So an argument based on it being 1787 isn't going to go very far.
  #55  
Old 05-27-2020, 08:34 PM
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Because people living in sparsely populated rural areas might have different concerns, needs and desires than people living in the megalopolis's of the east and west coasts, and might not want to have to live under rules crafted for urban conglomerates of tens of millions of people.
There are lots of small groups that have different concerns, needs, and desires than the majority. Should we be giving them extra votes?
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:37 PM
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nm

Last edited by Little Nemo; 05-27-2020 at 08:38 PM.
  #57  
Old 05-27-2020, 10:32 PM
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There are lots of small groups that have different concerns, needs, and desires than the majority. Should we be giving them extra votes?
The US system effectively does give the rural minority "extra" votes on a per capita basis.
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Old 05-27-2020, 11:06 PM
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Fighting ignorance correction.

Hong Kong was not "annexed" by China. Hong Kong was "ceded" by China during the Opium Wars to the British. Under gunboat diplomacy, Hong Kong island was given to the British under a 99 year lease (with Kowloon and the New Territories ambiguously outside those 99 year terms). At the end of 99 year, specifically 1997, control of HK passed from being an unequal part of the UK back to China.
The British colonial period began with the occupation of Hong Kong Island in 1841 during the First Opium War. The island was ceded by Qing dynasty in the aftermath of the war in 1842 and established as a Crown colony in 1843. The colony expanded to the Kowloon Peninsula in 1860 after the Second Opium War and was further extended when Britain obtained a 99-year lease of the New Territories in 1898. In other words, Britain owned Hong Kong Island and the Kowloon peninsula outright as spoils of war. It was only the New Territories that were leased for 99 years. Technically, Britain was only obligated to return the New Territories, but as a practical matter decided to throw in both HK Island and Kowloon in 1997.
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  #59  
Old 05-27-2020, 11:09 PM
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The US system effectively does give the rural minority "extra" votes on a per capita basis.
I agree. I think it's a bad idea and I think we should stop doing it. Everyone's vote should have equal weight.
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Old 05-28-2020, 01:22 AM
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Maybe that's because there's a reason for it - Trump is ethically far worse, far more incompetent and far more dangerous than the Chinese leadership. Of course nobody's saying the Chinese government is great and we should give up on freedom and democracy, but it's pretty hard to be an enthusiastic cheerleader for the West right now, and it's difficult not to respond to claims that the Chinese are so terrible without asking - relative to what? Especially when Trump seems determined to make beating on China a distraction from his own evil incompetence in an election year.
Thatís just not true. The fact that you can post that. Or the fact that another poster on this site can call Trump a pigfucker, with absolutely zero sanction or fear from either the moderators of this site or the government is proof that Trumpís power is nothing to fear compared to what the Chinese leadership could do.

Furthermore, Chinaís leadership and citizenry are acutely aware that we are a world of competing nation states and they arenít acting counterproductively out of a combination of petulance, arrogance and complacency.
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Old 05-28-2020, 08:34 AM
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So, it looks like the US has already moved to revoke the special status for Hong Kong to trade tariff free with the US in anticipation of today's vote. This is going to be a big blow to both Hong Kong and the CCP, though I haven't heard of any other nation making a move like this. Just protests about what the CCP is doing.

I think this is going to have a huge ripple effect that the CCP just isn't seeing. If you are a business, how can you trust your investment in China when the CCP can, at a whim, revoke any agreement it has at any time?
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  #62  
Old 05-28-2020, 04:08 PM
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If you are a business, how can you trust your investment in China when the CCP can, at a whim, revoke any agreement it has at any time?
I think businesses have always known that threat was there in the background. Any investments located in China are subject to confiscation by the regime. The Chinese government has even been relatively open about that possibility.

But a lot of businesses made the choice to focus on the short term advantages and not think about the risks.
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