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  #351  
Old 11-24-2019, 08:55 PM
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If I had a 15 yo daughter, I certainly would not allow her to be in that situation even in this day and age much less 35 years ago.
And if you had a 15 year old daughter, and she went to a party anyway without telling you despite knowing that you wouldn't allow it if she asked permission: she's sure as hell not going to tell you about it if things do go wrong, is she? Nor is she going to go to the police, who will almost certainly tell you. Nor is she going to tell anybody else who might let you find out. (What do you imagine the police would have done anyway, nearly forty years ago? Her word against both of theirs, and no major injuries to show?)

15 year olds do things their parents don't know about all the time. I've been 15.




I went a number of places when I was 15, with or without my parents. Can I now, or could I have when it was only some 35 years ago, identify with any accuracy when I was at which place or who was there?

Let's move a little later, because at 15 I didn't get to a lot of parties. I did, however, go to a whole lot of parties a few years later, when I was in college. Some of them were in dorm rooms, some of them were in people's houses. I remember a number of things that happened at those parties, none of them anywhere near as traumatic as what Ford describes; some of them were quite pleasant, some were annoying or even upsetting, some were just odd enough to stick in my memory. I do not now, nor did I when it was less than forty years ago instead of about 50, remember whose room or in which house any of those things occured; nor could I pin any of them down to a particular date -- well, the one that was occasioned by the solar eclipse could be pinned to a specific date. I'd have to look it up, though; without looking up that eclipse I couldn't pin it to a specific year, never mind date. Nor do I now remember exactly who was at which party. If I had to back up a friend that we were or that we weren't at a party together on a particular date, I wouldn't be able to swear to it, either.


I have no trouble at all imagining that what Ford remembers of a particular party over thirty years ago isn't where it was, or when it was, or exactly who was there, or how she got there, or how she got home; but that she nevertheless remembers from that night one thing, and that one thing seared into her memory: being pinned down on a bed while Kavanaugh tried to pull her clothes off and he and Judge laughed at her.


Nobody who was at that party but not in that one room would have remembered it, because they wouldn't have known it was happening. Kavanaugh and Judge might have even forgotten it: not only because they were drunk, but because it might not have mattered to them. To them, her panic and outrage might have been a laughing matter.

Could Ford now be mistaken? Possible. Maybe it wasn't Kavanaugh. Maybe it wasn't Judge. Maybe it was two other people, or one other person. But there is by now no way to prove she's mistaken, for the exact same reasons that there's by now no way (if there ever was) to prove she's telling the truth. If there were proof Kavanaugh was somewhere else entirely for all of the days in, say, 1981 to 1983 when Ford might possibly have been able to go to such a party, then it could be proven it wasn't him. But there is no such proof.

Even if there were, it wouldn't prove she was deliberately lying.

Could she have been deliberately lying? Well, maybe. She must have had some idea what sort of meat grinder she'd be walking into by making the accusation, and that she'd be unlikely to ever get entirely back out of that meat grinder for the rest of her life; so it seems to me massively unlikely. Others may think otherwise, and can certainly say that they think it's likely. But to say that it's proven she's lying is absolute nonsense.
  #352  
Old 11-24-2019, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
If there were proof Kavanaugh was somewhere else entirely for all of the days in, say, 1981 to 1983 when Ford might possibly have been able to go to such a party, then it could be proven it wasn't him. But there is no such proof.
Suddenly, you're demanding Kavanaugh have an alibi for two years. The only time this incident could have occurred is the first half of the summer of 82 based on Ford's testimony. Ford specifically states seeing Mark Judge working at a supermarket six to eight weeks after the alleged incident. This could have only occurred in the summer of 82.

How could you not know this? Only a person unfamiliar with this case would write what you wrote. Please go educate yourself.
  #353  
Old 11-24-2019, 11:52 PM
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How could you not know this? Only a person unfamiliar with this case would write what you wrote. Please go educate yourself.
LOL. You're the dipshit who once cited the comments section.

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From a Palo Alto newspaper. They report on the building permits and verify that the door was installed well before her 2012 marriage therapy. Read the comments as well.
  #354  
Old 11-25-2019, 12:24 AM
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Suddenly, you're demanding Kavanaugh have an alibi for two years. The only time this incident could have occurred is the first half of the summer of 82 based on Ford's testimony. Ford specifically states seeing Mark Judge working at a supermarket six to eight weeks after the alleged incident. This could have only occurred in the summer of 82.

How could you not know this? Only a person unfamiliar with this case would write what you wrote. Please go educate yourself.
Hmmm. I write a post pointing out that people forget many details over time, and in the process accidentally reveal that, over the past year or so, I forgot a detail of Ford's testimony.

Doesn't change anything else that I said.
  #355  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:06 AM
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15 year olds do things their parents don't know about all the time. I've been 15. Could Ford now be mistaken? Possible. Maybe it wasn't Kavanaugh. Maybe it wasn't Judge.
"But now the authors had Keyser, in her own words, going much further, to say that Ford’s description of the party didn’t make any sense to her. Among other problems with the story was the fact that Keyser had only gone on a date or two with Kavanaugh’s friend Mark Judge, and the party she recalled attending with him was very different from the one Ford described. Keyser told the authors that she spent 70 hours a week that summer in question working and practicing golf after her shift ended at the Congressional Country Club. Ford says she was at a different country club prior to the early-evening party where the alleged assault occurred, but Keyser only recalled helping Ford practice diving at that country club early in the morning."

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...ne-year-later/

How many details of Ford's allegation have to be proven false before you stop believing her?
  #356  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by LAZombie View Post
"But now the authors had Keyser, in her own words, going much further, to say that Ford’s description of the party didn’t make any sense to her. Among other problems with the story was the fact that Keyser had only gone on a date or two with Kavanaugh’s friend Mark Judge, and the party she recalled attending with him was very different from the one Ford described. Keyser told the authors that she spent 70 hours a week that summer in question working and practicing golf after her shift ended at the Congressional Country Club. Ford says she was at a different country club prior to the early-evening party where the alleged assault occurred, but Keyser only recalled helping Ford practice diving at that country club early in the morning."

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...ne-year-later/

How many details of Ford's allegation have to be proven false before you stop believing her?
You've shown, by your posts, again and again, that you don't care about allegations of sexual assault unless they're against someone you dislike. You value supporting Trump and allies more than actually fighting sexual assault and rape. With that in mind, there's no point in actually considering your arguments or engaging with you -- you debate in bad faith, lie, and otherwise behave in a manner that renders discussion pointless.

IOW, go away you fucking troll.
  #357  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:43 AM
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You've shown, by your posts, again and again, that you don't care about allegations of sexual assault unless they're against someone you dislike. You value supporting Trump and allies more than actually fighting sexual assault and rape. With that in mind, there's no point in actually considering your arguments or engaging with you -- you debate in bad faith, lie, and otherwise behave in a manner that renders discussion pointless.

IOW, go away you fucking troll.
If this were a meme, you would be that woman yelling and pointing, and I'd be the cat mocking you.

"Christine Blasey Ford’s Father Supported Brett Kavanaugh’s Confirmation"

"Ralph Blasey, Ford’s father, went out of his way to offer to Ed Kavanaugh his support of Brett Kavanaugh’s confirmation to the Supreme Court, according to multiple people familiar with the conversation that took place at Burning Tree Club in Bethesda, Maryland. “I’m glad Brett was confirmed,” Ralph Blasey told Ed Kavanaugh, shaking his hand. Blasey added that the ordeal had been tough for both families."

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/12...#disqus_thread
  #358  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by LAZombie View Post
If this were a meme, you would be that woman yelling and pointing, and I'd be the cat mocking you.

"Christine Blasey Ford’s Father Supported Brett Kavanaugh’s Confirmation"

"Ralph Blasey, Ford’s father, went out of his way to offer to Ed Kavanaugh his support of Brett Kavanaugh’s confirmation to the Supreme Court, according to multiple people familiar with the conversation that took place at Burning Tree Club in Bethesda, Maryland. “I’m glad Brett was confirmed,” Ralph Blasey told Ed Kavanaugh, shaking his hand. Blasey added that the ordeal had been tough for both families."

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/12...#disqus_thread
None of this, nor any of your other posts, dispute anything I've said. You're taking down strawmen, and you continue to be a dishonest troll.
  #359  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:53 AM
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If this were a meme, you would be that woman yelling and pointing, and I'd be the cat mocking you.

"Christine Blasey Ford’s Father Supported Brett Kavanaugh’s Confirmation"

"Ralph Blasey, Ford’s father, went out of his way to offer to Ed Kavanaugh his support of Brett Kavanaugh’s confirmation to the Supreme Court, according to multiple people familiar with the conversation that took place at Burning Tree Club in Bethesda, Maryland. “I’m glad Brett was confirmed,” Ralph Blasey told Ed Kavanaugh, shaking his hand. Blasey added that the ordeal had been tough for both families."

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/12...#disqus_thread

National Review. The Federalist. Ford's dad is a Trumpie, which means not that ford is a liar but that her dad is a scumbag.

You DO realize there's a nasty sexist story behind that meme, right?https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/stor...212500694.html
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They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
  #360  
Old 11-25-2019, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by LAZombie View Post
"But now the authors had Keyser, in her own words, going much further, to say that Ford’s description of the party didn’t make any sense to her. Among other problems with the story was the fact that Keyser had only gone on a date or two with Kavanaugh’s friend Mark Judge, and the party she recalled attending with him was very different from the one Ford described. Keyser told the authors that she spent 70 hours a week that summer in question working and practicing golf after her shift ended at the Congressional Country Club. Ford says she was at a different country club prior to the early-evening party where the alleged assault occurred, but Keyser only recalled helping Ford practice diving at that country club early in the morning."

How many details of Ford's allegation have to be proven false before you stop believing her?
Well over 30 years later, Keyser doesn't remember a particular party.

That certainly doesn't prove that she was there. But it also doesn't prove that she wasn't. And it most certainly doesn't make Ford's allegation "proven false".

Not to mention that Ford's allegations about specific behavior by Kavanaugh and Judge aren't even "proven false" if we presume that it's Ford, not Keyser, who's mistaken, again well over 30 years later, about whether Keyser was somewhere else in the building at the time, or about exactly where either of them was at what time earlier in the day.

If you want to say that you think Keyser's statement makes it unlikely that Ford's allegations about Kavanaugh and Judge are true, feel free. The problem I and others in this thread are having is with statements such as "proven false".
  #361  
Old 11-25-2019, 12:29 PM
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An accusation that an assault took place 30+ years ago is going to be difficult to prove. There is unlikely to be any physical evidence after all that time and as unreliable as human memory is, relying on witnesses after that long of a time is going to be shaky. A fair society presumed innocence unless proven otherwise, and fortunately our justice system is based on that principle. With all of that, Kavanaugh has not been shown to be a rapist and only a partisan would call him that at this point.

What is fair is to criticize him for many of his statements during his confirmation, many of which seem to be false, inaccurate, or at least not entirely truthful. That should call into question his integrity.

That same principle regarding the presumption of innocence should apply to Dr. Blasey-Ford as well. Her accusation may be unproven and may not be entirely accurate (see the above about memory), but there have been no reasons to doubt her motives or sincerity. Attacks on her are unwarranted.
  #362  
Old 11-25-2019, 02:26 PM
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What is fair is to criticize him for many of his statements during his confirmation, many of which seem to be false, inaccurate, or at least not entirely truthful. That should call into question his integrity.
Another huge issue with him is his temperament that was on display during the hearings. That man has no place near any bench, especially not the supreme one.
  #363  
Old 11-25-2019, 03:06 PM
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Another huge issue with him is his temperament that was on display during the hearings. That man has no place near any bench, especially not the supreme one.
Good point. Being impartial in judgment is essential and the Supreme Court is going to see very controversial issues (which is how they get so high). You’d want an even temperament there especially.
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