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Old 11-14-2019, 09:23 AM
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NFL WEEK 11 Herbs and Spices


It's not a great week for the NFL when the biggest news isn't about current teams and players, but rather that a former player getting a workout. Colin Kaepernick gets a workout on Saturday in Atlanta. The "planning" and communication surrounding it is odd, but we will see what happens. For the record, I think the amount and vehemence of the hatred he got was bullshit and he shouldn't have been blacklisted for his political activities. I also think he's a system QB and that he's not all that good of an NFL QB, but with the success Lamar Jackson is having this year (until he gets injured, he'll be great fun to watch), there should be a place for Kaepernick in the NFL.

In other news, former first rounder Vernon Hargreaves gets cut by the Bucs, George Kittle and Tyler Lockett are injured, and life goes on.

Here's your games for the week:

Thursday, Nov. 14

8:20 p.m. Pittsburgh Steelers at Cleveland Browns (NFLN/FOX) CLE -3 40

Sunday, Nov. 17

1 p.m. Dallas Cowboys at Detroit Lions (FOX) DAL -3 52
1 p.m. New Orleans Saints at Tampa Bay Buccaneers (FOX) NO -5.5 50
1 p.m. Atlanta Falcons at Carolina Panthers (FOX) CAR -5.5 51
1 p.m. Jacksonville Jaguars at Indianapolis Colts (CBS) JAX -3.5 44
1 p.m. Denver Broncos at Minnesota Vikings (CBS) MIN -10.5 39
1 p.m. New York Jets at Washington Redskins (FOX) WAS -1 39
1 p.m. Buffalo Bills at Miami Dolphins (CBS) BUF -5.5 40
1 p.m. Houston Texans at Baltimore Ravens (CBS) BAL -4.5 50
4:05 p.m. Arizona Cardinals at San Francisco 49ers (FOX) SF -11.5 46
4:25 p.m. New England Patriots at Philadelphia Eagles (CBS) NE -3.5 45
4:25 p.m. Cincinnati Bengals at Oakland Raiders (CBS) OAK -10.5 49
8:20 p.m. Chicago Bears at Los Angeles Rams (NBC) LAR -7 42

Monday, Nov. 18

8:15 p.m. Kansas City Chiefs at Los Angeles Chargers (ESPN) KC -3.5 53

A lot of interesting games this week.

The Thursday night Steelers/Browns game should be interesting. Both teams are playing much better than they have earlier in the season, and the addition of Minkah Fitzpatrick seems to have rejuvenated the Steeler defense. It's just a matter of which Baker Mayfield shows up this week. I expect a low scoring, smashmouth, defensive game that is very close. Should be a fun one to watch.

I was very surprised by the Saints loss last weekend; I thought they were one of the best in the NFC. But there are always down weeks for teams, so I think this one will be a breeze against the Bucs.

I'll definitely keep an eye on the Jags to see if Nick Foles is markedly better than the Moustachioed one. The Chiefs/Chargers and Bears/Rams should be interesting just for the "travelling west" storyline. I wonder if that's really a thing anymore or if teams have adjusted well enough. And the Lamar Jackson v. Deshaun Watson game should be great fun too.

Finally, the Pats and Eagles should be a good game too. I'm still unsure about just how good Carson Wentz actually is (his pass catchers are not helping him much this year), and an angry Bill Bellicheck is always interesting to watch. Peterson v. Bellicheck, Round 2 could be the game of the week.

And I know for sure I don't want anything to do with the Jets/Washington game. Both teams put the Ugly in "Jesus, God please don't make me watch this game because both teams are really fucking Ugly."

Anyone care to share?
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:55 AM
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The Chiefs/Chargers and Bears/Rams should be interesting just for the "travelling west" storyline. I wonder if that's really a thing anymore or if teams have adjusted well enough.
The Chiefs are "at" the Chargers but the game's in Mexico City. Though it's entirely possible that the Chargers will get a higher percentage of fans at this game than they do at home.

It's kind of unbelievable, but the Chargers basically still control their own fate, even at 4-6. They're two games behind KC, but they play them twice, and there's still an OAK @ LAC game on the schedule too. It's not very likely that the Chargers would win all three of those, but if I squint at the KC-TEN and LAC-GB games, I can convince myself it's possible. Of course the Charger thing to do would be to win those three and then lose against Denver in some inexplicable way.

I haven't read too much about the Kaep workout, but it seems just really weird. It seems like the NFL took the initiative in setting it up, but they're also trying to sabotage it. So maybe it was just some kind of PR thing, but the way it's being set up to fail seems completely obvious too. Just weird.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:45 AM
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I’m over the Kaep thing. It’s insane that anyone would even consider a QB who hasn’t played in 3 years who comes with a massive media circus as any sort of a solution for the last few weeks of the season. I assume Kaep was annoyed that he fell out of the spotlight along with anthem protesters and threatened to rattle his sabre again.

Even without the circus, I wouldn’t even consider a kicker or a punter who’d been out of the league for 3 years, much less a QB who’d have to learn the system.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:58 AM
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I assume Kaep was annoyed that he fell out of the spotlight along with anthem protesters and threatened to rattle his sabre again.
Considering the terms the NFL specified to Kaepernick's team, I really doubt this. None of his personal staff are allowed to be there, he was given 2 hours say yes/no to the surprise offer, and less than a week's notice for the session.

It seems more likely to be somebody at the NFL somehow trying to resuscitate the 'good' name of the league via publicity stunt. Kaep apparently still wants a second chance to play football badly enough to accept even these ridiculous terms.

I get it that you clearly don't like Kaepernick as a person, but putting the blame for this stunt on him defies reason.

ETA: Also, the "circus" excuse is way overplayed. Tim Tebow always came with a more ridiculous circus (and much less talent as a QB), and that didn't stop anybody.

Last edited by Great Antibob; 11-14-2019 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:48 PM
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Update on Tyler Lockett: it apparently wasn’t that serious. Leaving him in Santa Clara to stay in the hospital was precautionary and he’s already back in Seattle.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/seaha...private-report
Though there are no guarantees, since Seattle has a bye week in all likelihood he won’t miss any time. He does still have a major bruise so depending on how well it heals he may be limited up to and including the next game in Philadelphia. But it’s not the terrible scenario that the team and fans were worried about.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:23 PM
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I was wondering if week 11 would have a Spinal Tap inspired title.

Brian
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:28 PM
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Update on Tyler Lockett: it apparently wasnít that serious. Leaving him in Santa Clara to stay in the hospital was precautionary and heís already back in Seattle.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/seaha...private-report
Though there are no guarantees, since Seattle has a bye week in all likelihood he wonít miss any time. He does still have a major bruise so depending on how well it heals he may be limited up to and including the next game in Philadelphia. But itís not the terrible scenario that the team and fans were worried about.
This is good news. From what I've gathered, compartment syndrome is very serious, especially if you've had it before.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:46 PM
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I was wondering if week 11 would have a Spinal Tap inspired title.

Brian
I like the KFC reference myself.
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Old 11-14-2019, 04:20 PM
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I like the KFC reference myself.
As do I. Good job, Hamlet!
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:27 PM
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I'm pretty hyped up for this game, which I haven't been for a while. Whether they can get their shit together for this says a lot about the rest of the year. I think the Browns will win it solidly.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:44 PM
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Fun fact that's completely apropos of nothing!
Last six Browns coaches have all been fired right immediately after playing the Steelers.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:45 PM
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I greatly dislike the interpretation of pass interference as "the pass catcher can go anywhere they want, including right where the defender is currently standing or running".

Good start by Cleveland.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:02 PM
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Because I usually dislike Joe Buck and Troy Aikman, I tend to go with the UK audio feed, which is surprisingly amusing. For tonight's game, they are enamoured with the Scottish Hammer. I had no idea the punter for the Browns was Scottish.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:32 PM
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Steelers are a hot mess tonight. Cleveland seems inspired. But they’re still the Browns, so let’s see them last two quarters. Regardless, this doesn’t threaten Roethlisberger’s record of being the winningest QB in that stadium for some time.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:41 PM
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I'm beginning to think Denzel Ward might be good.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:42 PM
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Do they mix the audience volume in Thursday night games lower for some reason? The games usually seem very quiet, which is part of what ends up making them feel kind of boring and not like real football.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:51 PM
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Browns defender went to scoop up the fumble and return it for a TD instead of just jumping on it and securing it. Gonna get chewed out for that.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:22 PM
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1) Scottish Hammer is really good
2) What a boneheaded, unnecessary procedural penalty on what is kind of a weird rule anyway. Reddit user: "That is officially the most superfluous penalty I have ever seen committed."
3) Why are the Steelers this bad? Kinda takes the excitement out of it even though we've only beat them like twice in the last decade.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-14-2019 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:30 PM
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Two clear helmet to helmet penalties that knock out players make it hard to root for the Browns. And the fans chanting "Bullshit...Bullshit" does them no good either.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:30 PM
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WTF is the deal with Browns defenders leading with their heads? I don't think they're Vontaze Burfect dirty, but they're not being taught how to tackle and they're leading with their helmets.

A sign of, well, shitty coaching.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:50 PM
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I don't think I've ever seen two players have PI called on each other.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:05 PM
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I have not seen alot of the Browns this season. It's patently obvious to me that the complete lack of any originality in play design and play calling really hampers this offense. Put me on the "Freddie Kitchens should go" bandwagon.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:06 PM
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Two clear helmet to helmet penalties that knock out players make it hard to root for the Browns. And the fans chanting "Bullshit...Bullshit" does them no good either.
That second one was ridiculous and dumbass Pereria was trying to say it wasnít worthy of an ejection. Looking at the guy afterwards I wouldnít be surprised if his season is over.

That said, the Steelers history on this definitely makes them a target. Canít say it surprises me.

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Do they mix the audience volume in Thursday night games lower for some reason? The games usually seem very quiet, which is part of what ends up making them feel kind of boring and not like real football.
Maybe itís a production crew specific choice. Seems like itís pushed way back into the background, maybe they want Buck/Aikman the center of attention.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:08 PM
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The weird thing is that the Kitchens as OC offense was very good and suited the talent well. The Kitchens as HC offense looks a lot more like Monken's offense, which doesn't fit the talent well. Freddy should've hired one of his position coaches familiar with his offense as OC and designed/called his own plays. Monken is not a good match.

This is the most bored I've ever been with the Browns having a lead on the Steelers. Like other Browns games this year, it feels like we should probably be up 20 points and we're not, and it's just going to take one drive to take the game from us. Other than watching the pressure of the Browns D, this is kind of a miserable game to watch.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-14-2019 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:22 PM
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Can I name Mason Rudolph as the Player of the Game? For the Browns, of course.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:49 PM
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Well that was... an ending... to an ugly game. Rematch in 2 weeks, should be fun.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:51 PM
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Kitchens needs to be fired.

Garrett needs to be done for the Season.

Pouncey deserves a nominal fine.

DeCastro deserves the Nobel peace prize.
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Old 11-15-2019, 12:43 AM
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Garrett should be suspended for the rest of the season and possibly charged with assault. Clubbing someone over the head full-force with a heavy object? The only reason this wasn't the NFL's own Todd Bertuzzi/Steve Moore incident is that Mason Rudolph somehow seems to be OK through dumb luck. That was insane.
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Old 11-15-2019, 01:15 AM
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Alright, so a question: are you guys okay with Pouncey kicking and punching a downed Garrett?

On reddit, they're praising it. Pouncey protecting his QB, etc. etc.

But Pouncey wasn't "protecting" the QB at that point - Garrett was pinned down on the ground away from the QB, and Pouncey was continuously punching him and kicking him in the head. At this point, Pouncey isn't protecting, he's retaliating.

So the sequence of events in this: Rudolph tries to twist Garrett's helmet off, potentially hurting Garrett's neck or head. Garrett freaks out and massively retaliates disproportionately, going off on Rudolph and risking seriously injuring him.

Pouncey comes in and attacks Garrett to get him off Pouncey - that's fine - but after Garrett is well off Pouncey and pinned down by Decastro, Pouncey keeps punching and kicking his head. That's retaliation.

To be clear, this is in no way a defense of Garrett.

What I don't get is - if Garrett massively, disproportionately retaliating against Rudolph is bad - which it is - why is Pouncey trying to retaliate and harm Garrett good?

On reddit that got me massively downvoted without anyone actually telling me how I was wrong.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-15-2019 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 11-15-2019, 01:37 AM
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Alright, so a question: are you guys okay with Pouncey kicking and punching a downed Garrett?

On reddit, they're praising it. Pouncey protecting his QB, etc. etc.

But Pouncey wasn't "protecting" the QB at that point - Garrett was pinned down on the ground away from the QB, and Pouncey was continuously punching him and kicking him in the head. At this point, Pouncey isn't protecting, he's retaliating.

So the sequence of events in this: Rudolph tries to twist Garrett's helmet off, potentially hurting Garrett's neck or head. Garrett freaks out and massively retaliates disproportionately, going off on Rudolph and risking seriously injuring him.

Pouncey comes in and attacks Garrett to get him off Pouncey - that's fine - but after Garrett is well off Pouncey and pinned down by Decastro, Pouncey keeps punching and kicking his head. That's retaliation.

To be clear, this is in no way a defense of Garrett.

What I don't get is - if Garrett massively, disproportionately retaliating against Rudolph is bad - which it is - why is Pouncey trying to retaliate and harm Garrett good?

On reddit that got me massively downvoted without anyone actually telling me how I was wrong.
I am absolutely OK with Pouncey's reaction. I am also absolutely ok with the massive fine and possible suspension that Pouncey will receive.

Garrett deliberately did something that could have not only put Rudolph out of the game, but out of the league entirely. If we're going to point out Garrett's retaliation for the facemask, we need to discuss whether that itself was retalition for Garrett's actions during the play. After Rudolph got rid of the ball, Garrett wrapped around him and twisted him down.

At which point, Garrett rips off Rudolph's helmet and swings it at his head, over someone trying to separate them.

Garrett intentionally took an action that could have ended a career. He deserves his beating AND his suspension. And Pouncey will take his punishment with a grin on his face.
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Old 11-15-2019, 01:42 AM
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I mean - Pouncey was punching and kicking a guy who was pinned down in the head. He was clearly trying to inflict damage. If he was successful, and he knocked Garrett out, or seriously injured him otherwise, would that be something to praise?
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Old 11-15-2019, 01:56 AM
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I mean - Pouncey was punching and kicking a guy who was pinned down in the head. He was clearly trying to inflict damage. If he was successful, and he knocked Garrett out, or seriously injured him otherwise, would that be something to praise?
Pouncey was trying to pay back a crappy, cowardly, criminal act by performing a crappy, cowardly, criminal act. He only has two defenses; one is that Garrett at least still had hit helmet on (not that it would save him from a broken neck), the other is ďbut he did it firstĒ.
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Old 11-15-2019, 03:09 AM
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I mean - Pouncey was punching and kicking a guy who was pinned down in the head. He was clearly trying to inflict damage. If he was successful, and he knocked Garrett out, or seriously injured him otherwise, would that be something to praise?
Garrett's actions could have killed Rudolph. At least Pouncey didn't take Garrett's helmet off first.
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Old 11-15-2019, 03:13 AM
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Pouncey was trying to pay back a crappy, cowardly, criminal act by performing a crappy, cowardly, criminal act. He only has two defenses; one is that Garrett at least still had hit helmet on (not that it would save him from a broken neck), the other is ďbut he did it firstĒ.
I don't think Pouncey has a defense, nor should he desire one. What Pouncey did would be uncalled for in the normal course of events. Having an opponent rip the helmet off of your quarterback and then hit him in the head with it is not the normal course of events, and all bets are off at that point. I won't defend Pouncey's actions, but neither will I condemn them.


Garrett should thank his lucky stars he didn't leave the field on a stretcher.


Ogunjobi should also get a long vacation. Blindsiding a guy with no helmet on, that just took a shot to the crown of his head? Fuck him too.
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Old 11-15-2019, 08:39 AM
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Browns play the Steelers again in 2 weeks, which is going to be a brutal game, like the Rats-Steelers games usually are, but possibly dirtier.

Browns have a good chance to have a winning record in the division this year. I'm not sure they've done that this century. Hit 3-3 a few times, but I don't think they hit 4-2, although I don't know that without looking up every season. They're 2-0 with one on the road against the rats and one at home with the Steelers. I don't think the Steelers are going to be a significantly better team in any way in 2 weeks and the victory was fairly convincing so a repeat is not unreasonable. Cinci is a dumpster fire this year, so they could potentially hit 4 wins on those games alone. The next Ravens game is at home. Browns manhandled them the first game, but they seem to be playing a lot better now. I'd actually say it's probable they're gonna have a winning division record, although I doubt they can catch the rats for the actual division win.
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Old 11-15-2019, 08:48 AM
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IMO Pouncey can't be defended, but his actions can be, I don't know, sympathized with? In terms of what he did, it wasn't quite as bad as the old Haynesworth stomp because that was out of the blue on an unsuspecting player. Pounceys' was a heat of the moment response to a very specific action. I can see him getting a 2, maybe 3, game suspension.

Garrett OTOH is guilty of one the worst displays in North American sports ever. I mean worse than Bertuzzi/ Moore and worse than McSorley/ Brashear. I don't know what standard to hold him to in football. Is the Burfict suspension the bar? I would have said half a season suspension but with the 12 for Burfict, maybe Garrett gets a full 16.

After the game Kitchens said that Garrett's actions were embarrassing. No, they were far beyond embarrassing. I have to wonder, how much blame does a coach get when there is that much lack of discipline?
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Old 11-15-2019, 09:28 AM
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I have to admit, the first thing I thought seeing the video of the fight was, "Wow, unlike every other one of these types of fights I saw when I played football, Garrett's using the other guy's helmet to beat him with, instead of taking off his own. Smart."

That said, Garrett's is phenomenally lucky he didn't connect better with the hard side of that helmet, and knock Rudolph out or fracture his skull. He probably ends up in bracelets if that happened. Pouncey, with his repeated kicks to Garrett's head, is really lucky too. Connect on one of those below the rim of the helmet and on Garrett's cervical vertebrae, and it could have been really, really bad. This kicking people in the head stuff when they're knocked down seems a fairly recent thing, and needs to be put down hard. Though that's a lot more of an outside-the-NFL problem.

As it is, this is Garrett's, what, third major incident this year where the League has to fine him? Initially, I was curious what set off Garrett, but with that track record, who knows? Doing it on the League's marquee Thursday game, to a quarterback, is not doing himself any favors either. And at the end of the game, in a game they were winning by 14?! What the fuck is wrong with you, dude? You have that much energy to start a brawl at the end of the game?

Accordingly, give him the rest of the season off, and a hefty fine to boot. He does anything again, give him the whole following year off. Give Pouncey four games. I'm sure there are other suspensions and fines that can be handed out, particularly with the helmet-to-helmet stuff earlier. It also looks like an officiating crew that failed to maintain control of their game.

How does Kitchens still have a job?

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 11-15-2019 at 09:31 AM.
  #38  
Old 11-15-2019, 09:38 AM
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I have to admit, the first thing I thought seeing the video of the fight was, "Wow, unlike every other one of these types of fights I saw when I played football, Garrett's using the other guy's helmet to beat him with, instead of taking off his own. Smart."

That said, Garrett's is phenomenally lucky he didn't connect better with the hard side of that helmet, and knock Rudolph out or fracture his skull.
You're completely correct. But i also had the following take: "Dude just got smacked with a helmet and he stood there with his hands out like "what the fuck"....half the soccer players in the world would still be on the floor.
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Old 11-15-2019, 10:34 AM
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You're completely correct. But i also had the following take: "Dude just got smacked with a helmet and he stood there with his hands out like "what the fuck"....half the soccer players in the world would still be on the floor.
No need to impugn soccer players. It's just a different culture in the NFL. NHL players would've acted the same as the NFL guys, IMHO. (And I disagree about the severity of Garrett's actions vs other assaults in pro sports: McSorley's was far worse, IMHO.)

I did want to bring up that whacking a player with his own helmet isn't unprecedented in the NFL. Recently, the Texans' Antonio Smith went upside Richie Incognito's head with Richie's helmet in a preseason game. Smith caught a three game ban for that. As well he should have, even though I'm sure the League privately was tempted to cheer Smith rather than suspend him.

What was missing from Smith's punishment was the social media drama, all of the 'This is an outrage!', 'He needs to be banned for life!', 'He needs to go to prison!', etc... I agree that Garrett probably should be suspended for the rest of the year, and go under a Burfict-esque zero tolerance microscope for his subsequent employment in the NFL. I just think the drama and histrionics surrounding this incident are way overblown. Because that's what the 24 hour news cycle demands in the age of social media.

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 11-15-2019 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:20 AM
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I think what aggravates it is that the hittee is the QB. Some animals are just more equal than others. But regardless, this was ADW on live tv. The attention is warranted. So is the outrage. Note that much of the outrage comes from other players on other teams. They presumably have some experience to compare the level of seriousness with.
  #41  
Old 11-15-2019, 11:59 AM
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I'm lucky. I wasn't the least bit interested in last night's game so I missed all the "fun." A rematch in two weeks, IN Pittsburgh? What're they gonna do, bring the National Guard out for that one?
  #42  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
Recently, the Texans' Antonio Smith went upside Richie Incognito's head with Richie's helmet in a preseason game. Smith caught a three game ban for that. As well he should have,
I'm not sure if 6 years ago counts as recent, but the suspension was for the attempt and for ripping the helmet off his head. Even your cited article notes the attempt failed, with the swing "barely missing".

Trying to use a helmet as a weapon by itself should be subject to disciplinary action but the penalty for an actual strike should go beyond that.

It's pretty fair for there to be a bigger outcry if the helmet actually connects rather than a close whiff.
  #43  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:11 PM
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Garrett suspended "indefinitely."

Generally pro-sports-speak for "a length of time to be determined later."
  #44  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Great Antibob View Post
I'm not sure if 6 years ago counts as recent, but the suspension was for the attempt and for ripping the helmet off his head. Even your cited article notes the attempt failed, with the swing "barely missing".

Trying to use a helmet as a weapon by itself should be subject to disciplinary action but the penalty for an actual strike should go beyond that.

It's pretty fair for there to be a bigger outcry if the helmet actually connects rather than a close whiff.
Time flies.

Watch the video. I thought he actually made contact with Incognito when I saw it. If he missed, and still got suspended. Good. EDIT: And one was in a preseason game, between two lineman, one of whom was a top candidate for Biggest Asshole in the League; and the other was under the bright lights of a night game, against a quarterback, at the end of a game remarkable for its dirty play. 2019 has a different social media impact than 2013 too. Again, I'm happy that Garrett is gone for the rest of the year. I just don't agree with the sense of outrage.

In other news, as DC noted, Garrett's out indefinitely, but at least all year including the postseason, and needs to beg Goodell for his job back. I imagine it will happen with sufficient grovelling this offseason.

Pouncey's out 3 games, Ogunjobi's out 1. Fines too. Both teams fined a quarter million each. No word in the article about individual fines on top of this. Nothing so far for Rudolph trying to pull on Garrett's helmet at the start of the whole fracas, but it's early. Kitchens still not fired. Which is unfortunate.

All good though. Let's get back to playing football.

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 11-15-2019 at 12:24 PM.
  #45  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:44 PM
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I think the outrage comes partially from breaking a big rule that players almost always follow... Things get physical, crazy even, but once a helmet is off you’re supposed to stop and back off. Not only did that not happen, but the helmet was removed intentionally, then used as a weapon against the unprotected head. It’s one escalation after another all in one event.

And you know from the league’s perspective the fact that Rudolph is a QB (and a starting one at that, at least for now) is going to make this worse. Right or not, the QB is an especially protected position in the NFL and I think if Garrett did this to, say, an offensive guard he tussled with it would not be as big of a deal. Still a big deal but not quite as much. Even pushing “forcibly” against a QB’s helmet with your hand (not even enough to injure) is a personal foul now.
  #46  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:46 PM
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Not that I actually think this was in the NFL's thought process at all when allocating responsibility and penalties for this incident, but if Rudolph were to have been suspended for grabbing at Garrett's helmet or striking Garrett in the groin, how likely does that make Pittsburgh want to give Kaepernick a try at QB?
  #47  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:51 PM
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Not that I actually think this was in the NFL's thought process at all when allocating responsibility and penalties for this incident, but if Rudolph were to have been suspended for grabbing at Garrett's helmet or striking Garrett in the groin, how likely does that make Pittsburgh want to give Kaepernick a try at QB?
Rudolph got mad at Garrett and tried to grab his helmet. Garrett ripped off his helmet but he still came at him. He got struck in the head and was unfazed. Rudolph is like the perfect Steeler QB, isnít he?
  #48  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:54 PM
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I think the outrage comes partially from breaking a big rule that players almost always follow... Things get physical, crazy even, but once a helmet is off youíre supposed to stop and back off. Not only did that not happen, but the helmet was removed intentionally, then used as a weapon against the unprotected head. Itís one escalation after another all in one event...
Oh I agree, but see, Andre Johnson vs Cortland Finnegan. (Whole lot of Texans in these clips I keep finding. LOL.) They at least had the self control to not use the damned thing as a weapon.

QBs are different. The only game on that day makes it different. Swinging at the guy with the helmet---and connecting!---makes it different. And it's a different era with respect to the attention paid to player safety. Which is why the NFL keeps floating an 18-game season, but I digress...

I do think that if Garrett clocked him with the hard crown of the helmet, and Rudolph went down like Rudy T did to Kermit Washington's punch, that Garrett would be in jail for agg. assault, and would be out of the League forever. Thank God that didn't happen.
  #49  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:06 PM
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On a related note there is now a GoFundMe to pay for Pouncey’s fine.
https://larrybrownsports.com/footbal...ey-fine/523728
(I’m linking to a story about the funding site, not the site itself.)

I still think what Pouncey did was horrid and he deserved his suspension, but I get why fans are supporting the guy.

Last edited by Atamasama; 11-15-2019 at 01:06 PM.
  #50  
Old 11-15-2019, 02:33 PM
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Nothing so far for Rudolph trying to pull on Garrett's helmet at the start of the whole fracas, but it's early. Kitchens still not fired. Which is unfortunate.
Yeah, that started it. Not the hit, twist to the ground, and holding Rudolph down long after the play had moved on.
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