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  #51  
Old 08-13-2017, 04:57 PM
sweat209 sweat209 is offline
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So why is Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine use down but fentanyl so high?

Why is fentanyl the big range these days? Why so many people use fentanyl these days and Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine use down?
  #52  
Old 08-13-2017, 05:09 PM
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running coach running coach is offline
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Originally Posted by sweat209 View Post
So why is Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine use down but fentanyl so high?

Why is fentanyl the big range these days? Why so many people use fentanyl these days and Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine use down?
As been mentioned several times, fentanyl is cheaper and easier to smuggle due to it's very high potency and resulting smaller bulk.

Would you prefer to hide this?(1/2 kilo of heroin) Or this?
That bag of fentanyl is 50 grams. 1/10th of that is equal to the half kilo of heroin.
That also means rather than what ever amount of heroin makes a dose, you can sub in 1/100th of that of fentanyl, the rest is whatever you cut the drug with and it results in a cheaper product with the same potency.
  #53  
Old 08-14-2017, 11:59 AM
Rick Vallejo Rick Vallejo is offline
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Sounds like this drug achieves the purest result from what codeine and vicodin could accomplish. Next stop: an immediate euphoric high followed by certain death.
  #54  
Old 08-14-2017, 03:03 PM
sweat209 sweat209 is offline
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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
As been mentioned several times, fentanyl is cheaper and easier to smuggle due to it's very high potency and resulting smaller bulk.
There was lots of drug dealers selling Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine on the streets.

So what have changed?

Or is Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine harder to make in underground lab than fentanyl? And that is why they switch to fentanyl?

Last edited by sweat209; 08-14-2017 at 03:04 PM.
  #55  
Old 08-14-2017, 04:54 PM
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Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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Originally Posted by sweat209 View Post
There was lots of drug dealers selling Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine on the streets.

So what have changed?

Or is Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine harder to make in underground lab than fentanyl? And that is why they switch to fentanyl?
Oxycodone, hydromorphone, and morphine generally require opium for their manufacture. That's hard to get. They can be made synthetically, but it's not that easy.

Meanwhile fentanyl is easy-peasy for street chemists to cook up out of other materials than opium.

And as was noted earlier, fentanyl is also super cheap and super potent. And switch a few methyl or hydroxyl groups around and it's a whole new drug that's not even illegal yet! (tho the modifications may kill the user, or give him instant Parkinsonism)

It's not complicated. Fentanyl: Easier to make, less risk to hide and distribute, brings in tons of money. Why wasn't it more popular earlier? Because docs were being pushed by the hospitals, who were being pushed by the JCAH to treat pain with opioids until the patient stopped complaining of pain. This resulted in lots of prescription opioids being available. Supply of prescription opioids have dried up, so fentanyl fills the niche. As does heroin, to a lesser extent.

Last edited by Qadgop the Mercotan; 08-14-2017 at 04:58 PM.
  #56  
Old 08-15-2017, 11:41 AM
MikeF MikeF is offline
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That's nothing. Just wait for Carfentanil. From an addiction recovery website -

"Carfentanil is a powerful derivative of fentanyl, a synthetic narcotic analgesic produced from morphine. While fentanyl is about 100 times more powerful than morphine, carfentanil is 100 times more potent than fentanyl, meaning it is 10,000 times more potent than morphine."

Federal Register via Wikipedia"...and a 2016 annual aggregate manufacturing quota of 19 grams.[4]"

19 grams for an entire year. Pretty potent stuff, me thinks.
  #57  
Old 08-15-2017, 11:53 AM
Crazy Canuck Crazy Canuck is offline
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This is actually considered a very good thing to addicts. They know it's strong enough to accidentally OD on and they also think such a fate could never befall them, so they do it with glee.
Are you actually saying that addicts ODing and killing themselves should be "considered a very good thing?"
  #58  
Old 08-15-2017, 04:49 PM
sweat209 sweat209 is offline
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Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan View Post
Oxycodone, hydromorphone, and morphine generally require opium for their manufacture. That's hard to get. They can be made synthetically, but it's not that easy.

Meanwhile fentanyl is easy-peasy for street chemists to cook up out of other materials than opium.

And as was noted earlier, fentanyl is also super cheap and super potent. And switch a few methyl or hydroxyl groups around and it's a whole new drug that's not even illegal yet! (tho the modifications may kill the user, or give him instant Parkinsonism)

It's not complicated. Fentanyl: Easier to make, less risk to hide and distribute, brings in tons of money. Why wasn't it more popular earlier? Because docs were being pushed by the hospitals, who were being pushed by the JCAH to treat pain with opioids until the patient stopped complaining of pain. This resulted in lots of prescription opioids being available. Supply of prescription opioids have dried up, so fentanyl fills the niche. As does heroin, to a lesser extent.
So you are saying the reason why Oxycodone, hydromorphone, and morphine where so widespread was doctors where subscribing it more back than? Now doctors switched to Fentanyl?

Still why where there so many drug dealers selling Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine on the streets back than? Or like you say it was hard to make in underground lab so street dealers switch to Fentanyl because it is easy to make?

Last edited by sweat209; 08-15-2017 at 04:49 PM.
  #59  
Old 08-15-2017, 05:07 PM
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Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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So you are saying the reason why Oxycodone, hydromorphone, and morphine where so widespread was doctors where subscribing it more back than? Now doctors switched to Fentanyl?
<<sigh>> Doctors did NOT switch to fentanyl. I said street chemists made it, to fill the demand for opioids that had previously been met by prescription diversion. Doctors were not prescribing a lot of fentanyl outside of hospital use. Some yes, but not much compared to other opioids.

Quote:
Still why where there so many drug dealers selling Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine on the streets back than?
Because they were able to get their hands on lots of diverted prescriptions for those drugs.
Quote:
Or like you say it was hard to make in underground lab so street dealers switch to Fentanyl because it is easy to make?
That's what I said.
  #60  
Old 08-15-2017, 05:17 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is offline
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Originally Posted by Crazy Canuck View Post
Are you actually saying that addicts ODing and killing themselves should be "considered a very good thing?"
That's not at all what he said.

Try reading it again. It's only two sentences.
  #61  
Old 08-15-2017, 05:27 PM
sweat209 sweat209 is offline
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Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
That's nothing. Just wait for Carfentanil. From an addiction recovery website -

"Carfentanil is a powerful derivative of fentanyl, a synthetic narcotic analgesic produced from morphine. While fentanyl is about 100 times more powerful than morphine, carfentanil is 100 times more potent than fentanyl, meaning it is 10,000 times more potent than morphine."

Federal Register via Wikipedia"...and a 2016 annual aggregate manufacturing quota of 19 grams.[4]"

19 grams for an entire year. Pretty potent stuff, me thinks.
More potent and powerful does not mean the high is 100 times more powerful than morphine or Carfentanil is 100 times more powerful high than fentanyl.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan View Post
<<sigh>> Doctors did NOT switch to fentanyl. I said street chemists made it, to fill the demand for opioids that had previously been met by prescription diversion. .
Not sure what you mean by this?
  #62  
Old 08-15-2017, 05:38 PM
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running coach running coach is offline
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Originally Posted by sweat209 View Post
More potent and powerful does not mean the high is 100 times more powerful than morphine or Carfentanil is 100 times more powerful high than fentanyl.




Not sure what you mean by this?
Prescription diversion-patients (or caregivers) selling their own prescription pills on the street.

Also, nurses or pharmacy employees stealing pills.

Last edited by running coach; 08-15-2017 at 05:39 PM.
  #63  
Old 08-15-2017, 07:12 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweat209 View Post
So why is Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine use down but fentanyl so high?

Why is fentanyl the big range these days? Why so many people use fentanyl these days and Oxycontin/Oxycodone, hyrdromorphone AND morphine use down?
Not trying to be a dick, but we've explained that.

Synopsis:

Doctors were prescribing a ton of prescription opiates to help people deal with pain. Many of these drugs ended up on the black market. So up until a few years ago, the black market was full of opiates that people got from their doctors that ended up on the black market.

The DEA cracked down on doctors prescribing these drugs. This drastically reduced the supply of prescription opiates.

At the same time, Chinese chemists got good at synthesizing synthetic opiates not made from opium. Things like fentanyl. Fentanyl also has the benefit of being far cheaper per dose, and requiring far less drug. Smuggling 1 kilogram of fentanyl is easier than smuggling 50 kilograms of heroin.

So starting a few years ago, chinese fentanyl started flooding the streets due to all the benefits fentanyl brings (cheaper, easier to smuggle and hide due to smaller bulk) combined with the black market drying up in its supply of prescription opiates.

If you look at fentanyl OD rates, they were pretty minor until about 2-5 years ago. Then they exploded.

Last edited by Wesley Clark; 08-15-2017 at 07:15 PM.
  #64  
Old 08-15-2017, 08:56 PM
PastTense PastTense is offline
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More potent and powerful does not mean the high is 100 times more powerful than morphine or Carfentanil is 100 times more powerful high than fentanyl.
Right. But it does mean that overdoses will be a lot more common because it is more difficult for everyone involved to measure/control the amounts: the average user doesn't have high accuracy scientific scales.
  #65  
Old 08-16-2017, 10:52 AM
Crazy Canuck Crazy Canuck is offline
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Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
That's not at all what he said.

Try reading it again. It's only two sentences.
I quoted exactly what he said. If you think I changed what he said in the quote box, you should report my post for breaking forum rules.

Unless you are admitting that Ambivalid is your sock account, you have no way of knowing what he meant, and to be honest I don't care what you think he meant. He's a big boy, he can defend or disavow that statement himself.
  #66  
Old 08-16-2017, 11:00 AM
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running coach running coach is offline
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Originally Posted by Crazy Canuck View Post
I quoted exactly what he said. If you think I changed what he said in the quote box, you should report my post for breaking forum rules.

Unless you are admitting that Ambivalid is your sock account, you have no way of knowing what he meant, and to be honest I don't care what you think he meant. He's a big boy, he can defend or disavow that statement himself.
What he meant is that addicts don't consider possible lethality as a bug, it's a feature.
It means they will get the best high since they're getting the largest possible dose.
  #67  
Old 08-16-2017, 11:14 AM
Crazy Canuck Crazy Canuck is offline
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Thanks Running Coach, but did you read the second sentence of mine that you just quoted?
  #68  
Old 08-16-2017, 12:29 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is offline
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Originally Posted by Crazy Canuck View Post
I quoted exactly what he said. If you think I changed what he said in the quote box, you should report my post for breaking forum rules.

Unless you are admitting that Ambivalid is your sock account, you have no way of knowing what he meant, and to be honest I don't care what you think he meant. He's a big boy, he can defend or disavow that statement himself.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, assuming that you would look again and realize that in your haste, you had wildly misinterpreted what he wrote, and that you'd say "d'oh!" and possibly apologize to Ambivalid for your mistake. It seems things went a different way.
  #69  
Old 08-16-2017, 12:52 PM
Crazy Canuck Crazy Canuck is offline
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Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, assuming that you would look again and realize that in your haste, you had wildly misinterpreted what he wrote, and that you'd say "d'oh!" and possibly apologize to Ambivalid for your mistake. It seems things went a different way.
It's still possible that I'll end up apologizing. To be clear, I like Ambivalid as a poster and I actually am hoping I'm reading this wrong. However, that's not going to stop me from calling that post out.
  #70  
Old 08-16-2017, 12:56 PM
nightshadea nightshadea is offline
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having lived with someone that had a legally prescribed fentanyl patch its easy to see why its more popular .... you don't need 3 or 4 different drugs for pain .... if you have cramps or anything it works wonders you can be cramping twitching in total pain ... slap a new one on and an hour later your totally still counting the pretty dots on the ceiling drooling .....

Until near replacement time when it starts to wear off and the pain comes back in a rush ....... grumpy is being nice .........
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