Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01-12-2018, 01:46 PM
Profound Gibberish Profound Gibberish is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 309
A couple of comments.

As for it being "unethical" for mental health providers to comment on the mental status of others, the APA formally endorsed and overly assisted in the torture of thousands of people in the name of terrorism, so their "ethics" are slipperier than owl excrement.

As an RN for 25 years with a significant mental health background, I have no problem assessing and describing his behaviors. I would do the same if I saw him on TV looking like he was in a hypertensive crisis.

So. . . .Trump has an attention deficit spectrum disorder along with some type of learning disability. His son Barron obviously has more extreme symptoms of this disability. Add in an extremely sheltered upbringing that stunts any growth opportunities and you have a person with a third-grader mentality. Add in a cadre of yes men to keep him insulated and believing in his own BS.

He was private schooled so there is no record of anyone ever seeing him at any school. Even his "classmates" at Wharton don't remember him being there. I believe he is only partially literate and that it is likely that most of his tweets are dictated and entered by whatever lackey is around. You can tell when he tweets himself because the word count and complexity goes way down.

He was the one man show of a long-running con game. He lost his fortune due to his stupidity and then the Russians found a nice way to launder their goods through him. Now it is all being exposed as the fraud it is.
  #52  
Old 01-12-2018, 01:47 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrr! View Post
Except in extreme cases where they feel the person in question may be a danger to the public.
Show me the relevant code of medical ethics that makes such an exception, please.
  #53  
Old 01-12-2018, 01:56 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
There is no possibility of a factual answer to any question about Trump on the SDMB.
Is that a fact?
  #54  
Old 01-12-2018, 02:11 PM
Stranger On A Train Stranger On A Train is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manor Farm
Posts: 18,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
You'd have to be crazy to diagnose yourself as being crazy.
There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one’s own safety in the face of dangers that wre real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn’t, but if he was sane, he had to fly them. If he flew them, he was crazy and didn’t have to; but if he didn’t want to, he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.

“That’s some catch, that Catch-22,” he observed.

“It’s be best there is,” Doc Daneeka agreed.
—Joseph Heller, Catch-22

All Trump has to do to stop being President is resign. But if he resigns, he’ll no longer be the President and can’t pardon himself. Oh, the paradox!

Stranger

Last edited by Stranger On A Train; 01-12-2018 at 02:12 PM.
  #55  
Old 01-12-2018, 02:26 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profound Gibberish View Post
His son Barron obviously has more extreme symptoms of this disability.
I don't hold out much hope for that kid, given his role models, but how do you know this, if I may ask?
  #56  
Old 01-12-2018, 02:31 PM
nelliebly nelliebly is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Washington
Posts: 851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Then why did you post it here? There is no possibility of a factual answer to any question about Trump on the SDMB.

Regards,
Shodan
See #22 by El Kabong. Granted, the number of Tweets doesn't address the entire question, but they're one indicator, and they're quantifiable.
  #57  
Old 01-12-2018, 02:32 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,852
Wall Street journal says in Oct 2016 Trump's lawyer paid a porn star $160k to keep quiet about an affair in 2006. Of course WSJ is far from a liberal paper.
  #58  
Old 01-12-2018, 03:01 PM
Profound Gibberish Profound Gibberish is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
I don't hold out much hope for that kid, given his role models, but how do you know this, if I may ask?
Concerning Barron? I cannot point to one article, just a number of sources here and there. It is certainly openly known that he has a learning disability. These types of disabilities are typically inherited. There is a well-justified moratorium on reporting about the Presidents children so there is little information concerning what specifically it is. PT could say what it is to raise awareness, but then he would have to say that his child is imperfect, and that ain't gonna happen.
  #59  
Old 01-12-2018, 03:03 PM
Icarus's Avatar
Icarus Icarus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In front of my PC, y tu?
Posts: 4,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
Wall Street journal says in Oct 2016 Trump's lawyer paid a porn star $160k to keep quiet about an affair in 2006. Of course WSJ is far from a liberal paper.
Which is somewhat curious to me. With all else that is questionable about his past and current behavior that is widely known, people still voted for him.

But this, THIS he wanted covered up? Hm? Seems to me it is very "on brand" for him to schtup a porn star, this would be something he would want known?
__________________
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
- C. Darwin
  #60  
Old 01-12-2018, 03:12 PM
running coach's Avatar
running coach running coach is offline
Arms of Steel, Leg of Jello
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Riding my handcycle
Posts: 35,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
Wrong. Even if s/he were a professional, which I highly doubt, s/he would know that it's unethical to make a diagnosis of someone one hasn't examined.
It's more important to be concerned about the ethics of Trump and the GOP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
Wall Street journal says in Oct 2016 Trump's lawyer paid a porn star $160k to keep quiet about an affair in 2006. Of course WSJ is far from a liberal paper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Which is somewhat curious to me. With all else that is questionable about his past and current behavior that is widely known, people still voted for him.

But this, THIS he wanted covered up? Hm? Seems to me it is very "on brand" for him to schtup a porn star, this would be something he would want known?
Because he had married Melania the year before.

Last edited by running coach; 01-12-2018 at 03:12 PM.
  #61  
Old 01-12-2018, 03:29 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Which is somewhat curious to me. With all else that is questionable about his past and current behavior that is widely known, people still voted for him.

But this, THIS he wanted covered up? Hm? Seems to me it is very "on brand" for him to schtup a porn star, this would be something he would want known?
Only speculating, but if *I* were a lifelong serial braggart and egomaniac who boasted in front of millions on live TV about the size of my manhood, and someone out there had contradictory evidence and an axe to grind...
  #62  
Old 01-12-2018, 03:29 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 6,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Then why did you post it here? There is no possibility of a factual answer to any question about Trump on the SDMB.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
I disagree. ...
I think Shodan may be right. After all, he didn't offer one either.
(If you at home are attempting to read my response as I would say it, "either" is pronounced ee-ther, not I-ther.)

ETA: I now see that I was ninja'd much more succinctly and professionally by Vinyl Turnip.

Last edited by bobot; 01-12-2018 at 03:31 PM.
  #63  
Old 01-12-2018, 03:35 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pacific NW. ¥
Posts: 11,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by running coach View Post
Because he had married Melania the year before.
He also married her before the pussy grabbing confession and attempts to grope that woman when he got off the bus (remember, it all started with the tic tacs)
  #64  
Old 01-12-2018, 03:58 PM
StusBlues StusBlues is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 4,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayaker View Post
With "shithole countries" he's reached a new low. Which he does weekly.

How low can he go?
At some point, he's going to moon the pope or something.

His supporters will still say that the Argentine bastard had it coming.
__________________
"I'm scared, sir." --Lieutenant George St Barleigh
  #65  
Old 01-12-2018, 04:36 PM
Measure for Measure's Avatar
Measure for Measure Measure for Measure is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Twitter: @MeasureMeasure
Posts: 13,782
The OP

In Wolffe's book as well as other sources, Trump's key advisors characterized him as an an idiot and worse. Over the past few days, Trump has made more high profile appearances in an attempt to establish his authority. It hasn't gone well.

The OP can look over that last link and reasonably conclude that Trump's public jackassery1 has gotten worse this week. But that's plausibly due to the greater number of public events, and not necessarily a stroke or anything internal.

Although there's been reasonable discussion of his mental faculties as well: contrast interviews of today with those from 20 years ago.


1 I'm not sure what else to call it. Gaffe doesn't really cover it.
  #66  
Old 01-12-2018, 04:40 PM
Merneith Merneith is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Group W Bench
Posts: 6,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar View Post
Are you talking about him grabbing himself? (Where?) Is this an expression?. I never watch TV so I have not noticed such a thing.
There's also how he's lately taken to drinking water from bottles with two hands, like a baby holding a bottle. It suggests growing insecurity in his muscular control and eyesight. It's as if it takes a lot of concentration for him to get the water into his mouth.

Granted, I miss my mouth about six times a week when I'm trying to drink something, but that's a lifelong affliction. I blame my shitty eyesight and general lack of peripheral vision for not noticing where the cup's going. If I were president, I would only use a straw and I would still struggle to get the straw where it's supposed to be.

The point about Trump is that he didn't seem to have this problem a year ago.
  #67  
Old 01-12-2018, 05:15 PM
Grrr!'s Avatar
Grrr! Grrr! is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,541
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
Show me the relevant code of medical ethics that makes such an exception, please.
There is a code of ethics that allows for such a thing. I can't link to it because my statements stem from an interview I saw with the Doctors involved with writing the book: "The Dangerous Case of DT"

In the interview, they spoke at length about the ethics of making such an analysis about a person they have never actually seen in person.
  #68  
Old 01-12-2018, 05:45 PM
Robot Arm Robot Arm is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Medford, MA
Posts: 23,018
Isn't today the day that he's going to have a physical exam that he's totally going to release all the results from?
  #69  
Old 01-12-2018, 05:46 PM
Spice Weasel Spice Weasel is offline
Guest
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 16,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrr! View Post
There is a code of ethics that allows for such a thing. I can't link to it because my statements stem from an interview I saw with the Doctors involved with writing the book: "The Dangerous Case of DT"

In the interview, they spoke at length about the ethics of making such an analysis about a person they have never actually seen in person.
Kinda jumping into this thread blind, but...

There is no question among most psychological professionals that this is unethical. It's Psych 101. You don't diagnose someone you've never met.

I don't think people fully understand the ramifications of this sort of thing. It's not just about politics, it's about how mental illness is handled and perceived in our culture, it's about the inherent cultural bias of the DSM, it's about alienating half the country from the psychological profession, and a lot of other things.

But as I've stated before, you don't have to be a psychological professional to judge a rambling madman as batshit crazy. With someone as erratic and irrational as Donald Trump, mental illness is an entirely reasonable conclusion for anyone to make. And this is so painfully obvious I would contend that the burden of proof is on others to provide evidence that he's psychologically stable.
  #70  
Old 01-12-2018, 05:53 PM
Spice Weasel Spice Weasel is offline
Guest
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 16,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profound Gibberish View Post
A couple of comments.

As for it being "unethical" for mental health providers to comment on the mental status of others, the APA formally endorsed and overly assisted in the torture of thousands of people in the name of terrorism, so their "ethics" are slipperier than owl excrement.
This is a fact. But it can also be telling. For the APA to take an ethical stance on anything is generally reflective of the fact that they are finally, 30 years later, catching up with majority professional opinion. They are a conservative organization, so if they have any ethical stance at all, it's usually indicative of professional consensus. Ergo, the guidance against diagnosing unknown persons wouldn't be in their code of ethics unless a bunch of professionals pushed for it to be there.
  #71  
Old 01-12-2018, 05:56 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrr! View Post
There is a code of ethics that allows for such a thing. I can't link to it because my statements stem from an interview I saw with the Doctors involved with writing the book: "The Dangerous Case of DT"

In the interview, they spoke at length about the ethics of making such an analysis about a person they have never actually seen in person.
Then provide a cite, or retract. I saw it on tv or the internet is NOT a cite.

Who are these people? What are their qualifications? Do they have an agenda?
  #72  
Old 01-12-2018, 05:59 PM
Happy Lendervedder's Avatar
Happy Lendervedder Happy Lendervedder is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 14,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
But this, THIS he wanted covered up? Hm? Seems to me it is very "on brand" for him to schtup a porn star, this would be something he would want known?
Unless the pornstar in question had an embarrassingly small penis.
  #73  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:02 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 24,377
I found a body of polling asking whether Trump is “level headed” or not. I think that’s a fair statement of the question asked by the OP.

Generally, the public’s views of Trump’s level headedness was -30 or so last year. More recently, it is hovering around -40. The polling shows a clear and widening pattern toward negative responses. See question 13 here:

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2511

It is important to note that there are Americans who both see Trump as not level headed but also fit to serve as President. There is only three months of reporting on this question, number 18, but the numbers are just bouncing around low 40s for “yes” and mid-50s for “no.”

But as a factual matter, there are actually more Americans who think Trump is mentally stable, but not all of them think it is to the point of disqualifying him from office.

Not possible to get a factual answer to the question? I think not.
  #74  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:10 PM
Grrr!'s Avatar
Grrr! Grrr! is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,541
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
Then provide a cite, or retract. I saw it on tv or the internet is NOT a cite.

Who are these people? What are their qualifications? Do they have an agenda?

This isn't Great Debates. I don't care enough about this subject to do extensive research.

All I know is that they are psychologists. Their analysis has been signed off on by many of their peers and psychology associations.

I retract nothing.

Last edited by Grrr!; 01-12-2018 at 06:11 PM.
  #75  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:22 PM
Spice Weasel Spice Weasel is offline
Guest
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 16,870
Skimming through the code of ethics for the Canadian Psychological Association, I see a number of relevant articles, including the importance of placing patient well-being before the good of society, due process with regard to evaluation, informed consent, consideration of all involved family members, gratuitous self-promotion, respect for individual privacy, and this one in particular:

Quote:
[Professionals should] make themselves aware of the current social and political climate and of previous and possible future societal misuses of psychological knowledge, and exercise due discretion in communicating psychological information (e.g., research results, theoretical knowledge), in order to discourage any further misuse.
The overarching theme I'm getting is this: The purpose of psychological knowledge for a mental health professional is to treat mental illness. It's the only reason to make a diagnosis. If the goal of these people is not to get help for Donald Trump, it's unethical for them to diagnose and discuss his mental illness, particularly without his consent. If their goals are political, and not medical, they are doing wrong.

I know some people would rather pitch the whole of the mental health profession under the bus in the service of their political ideals, but it isn't right and it's not even best for society in the long run.

Last edited by Spice Weasel; 01-12-2018 at 06:26 PM.
  #76  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:35 PM
Ambivalid's Avatar
Ambivalid Ambivalid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In my head
Posts: 13,169
Scariest thought of all: The most powerful man in the world is Steve Douchey.
  #77  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:55 PM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou ThelmaLou is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 13,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spice Weasel View Post
Kinda jumping into this thread blind, but...

There is no question among most psychological professionals that this is unethical. It's Psych 101. You don't diagnose someone you've never met.

I don't think people fully understand the ramifications of this sort of thing. It's not just about politics, it's about how mental illness is handled and perceived in our culture, it's about the inherent cultural bias of the DSM, it's about alienating half the country from the psychological profession, and a lot of other things.

But as I've stated before, you don't have to be a psychological professional to judge a rambling madman as batshit crazy. With someone as erratic and irrational as Donald Trump, mental illness is an entirely reasonable conclusion for anyone to make. And this is so painfully obvious I would contend that the burden of proof is on others to provide evidence that he's psychologically stable.
As I said in another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
An editorial in the NYTimes today said who cares if thump is mentally ill? Emphasis added.
IOW it's not rocket surgery. We don't need no stinkin' diagnosis to tell us that he's clearly unfit for the job.
  #78  
Old 01-12-2018, 07:12 PM
John Mace's Avatar
John Mace John Mace is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Bay
Posts: 84,799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spice Weasel View Post
Kinda jumping into this thread blind, but...

There is no question among most psychological professionals that this is unethical. It's Psych 101. You don't diagnose someone you've never met.

I don't think people fully understand the ramifications of this sort of thing. It's not just about politics, it's about how mental illness is handled and perceived in our culture, it's about the inherent cultural bias of the DSM, it's about alienating half the country from the psychological profession, and a lot of other things.

But as I've stated before, you don't have to be a psychological professional to judge a rambling madman as batshit crazy. With someone as erratic and irrational as Donald Trump, mental illness is an entirely reasonable conclusion for anyone to make. And this is so painfully obvious I would contend that the burden of proof is on others to provide evidence that he's psychologically stable.
I think this is an important thing for armchair psychologists to keep in mind. However, you seem to want to have it both ways. What is psychological stability and how is it measured? And, in a debate, the burden of proof is never on the person who is not making an assertion of fact. Finally, saying someone is "batshit crazy" is a meaningless assertion in the process of reasoned debate. Seems to me we're bettor off sticking to "frequently contradicts himself", "makes many factually incorrect assertions" and/or "is easily provoked into making personal attacks against people with whom he has a disagreement". Things like that.

Last edited by John Mace; 01-12-2018 at 07:12 PM.
  #79  
Old 01-12-2018, 07:14 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrr! View Post
This isn't Great Debates. I don't care enough about this subject to do extensive research.

All I know is that they are psychologists. Their analysis has been signed off on by many of their peers and psychology associations.

I retract nothing.
Isn't Elections basically a subforum of Great Debates? The same rules apply, don't they?

And your "psychologists" are behaving unprofessionally.

Mental illness is a serious medical issue. Internet mocking doesn't help anyone.
  #80  
Old 01-12-2018, 07:17 PM
running coach's Avatar
running coach running coach is offline
Arms of Steel, Leg of Jello
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Riding my handcycle
Posts: 35,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
Isn't Elections basically a subforum of Great Debates? The same rules apply, don't they?

And your "psychologists" are behaving unprofessionally.

Mental illness is a serious medical issue. Internet mocking doesn't help anyone.
No.
There are no sub-forums.

Trump and the GOP are acting unprofessionally and the consequences are far worse than the opinion of a single or even a few psychologists.
  #81  
Old 01-12-2018, 07:18 PM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: the Keystone State
Posts: 14,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
The only face-saving "out" would presumably be health concerns.
Which would still be admitting weakness (at least in Trump's eyes) so he'll only do that if he's absolutely convinced a worse alternative is imminent (ie removal from office following impeachment or the 25th Amendment being invoked).
__________________
No Gods, No Masters

Last edited by alphaboi867; 01-12-2018 at 07:21 PM.
  #82  
Old 01-12-2018, 07:27 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by running coach View Post
No.
There are no sub-forums.
No kidding, Sherlock. But the rules, and the culture are largely the same. If one makes a declarative statement of fact, it's up to that person to prove it via reliable cites.

Even you would agree that "I saw it on the internet" is not a legitimate cite, yes?
  #83  
Old 01-12-2018, 07:28 PM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lenni Lenape Land
Posts: 5,667
If someone tried to write a fictional book or make a movie predicting this presidency 2 years ago, they would have been laughed out of rooms for being too unrealistic. Comedy section at least.
__________________
"That's right. Even my feet have balls." Stephen Colbert 9/28/10
  #84  
Old 01-12-2018, 07:32 PM
running coach's Avatar
running coach running coach is offline
Arms of Steel, Leg of Jello
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Riding my handcycle
Posts: 35,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
No kidding, Sherlock. But the rules, and the culture are largely the same. If one makes a declarative statement of fact, it's up to that person to prove it via reliable cites.

Even you would agree that "I saw it on the internet" is not a legitimate cite, yes?
You claimed it was a sub-forum.
I never said a thing about "I saw it on the internet". That was Grrr!
  #85  
Old 01-12-2018, 07:48 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 37,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogSignal View Post
YAnd finally bashed "shithole countries."
Would you prefer "4th World nations"? Because some nations are pretty much shitholes, sad to say. But the President shouldn't be using that term in public.
__________________
I am not a real Doctor
  #86  
Old 01-12-2018, 08:00 PM
Spice Weasel Spice Weasel is offline
Guest
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 16,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
I think this is an important thing for armchair psychologists to keep in mind. However, you seem to want to have it both ways. What is psychological stability and how is it measured? And, in a debate, the burden of proof is never on the person who is not making an assertion of fact. Finally, saying someone is "batshit crazy" is a meaningless assertion in the process of reasoned debate. Seems to me we're bettor off sticking to "frequently contradicts himself", "makes many factually incorrect assertions" and/or "is easily provoked into making personal attacks against people with whom he has a disagreement". Things like that.
Well, that's a fair point.

Except for the part I bolded. I think that's usually true, but not in cases where the evidence is overwhelming. If I say that there is no meaningful difference between the intelligence of black people and white people, the burden is not on me to prove that because it's already been demonstrated countless times and there is no credible evidence showing otherwise. That's the mentality I'm coming from with that statement. Obviously ''batshit insane'' has no specific meaning, it's what I thought when my schizophrenic uncle used to ramble to me about people putting dead bodies in his cigarettes. It conveys a feeling you get when engaging with a crazy person more than anything else.

I agree specificity of behaviors is our friend in general. I always run my thoughts/postings about mental illness by Sr. Weasel to make sure I'm in the ballpark of correct, as I trust his professional judgment immensely, especially with regard to professional ethics. (Yeah, I'm biased, so sue me.) It's easy for him to turn to me, in the privacy of our home, and say, "That guy has the worst case of NPD I've ever seen,'' but it would be unethical to call that a formal diagnosis, and it would be largely unproductive in mixed company.

I don't think the ''he's mentally ill'' line of argument is particularly helpful for a number of reasons, the most obvious being, ''So what?" While we can make an educated guess about his mental health status, there's absolutely no way to determine, absent an intensive evaluation that will never happen, whether said mental illness makes him unfit for office. It's not like a mental health diagnosis automatically determines someone's fitness for work. I feel that some liberals engage in a number of unrealistic fantasies in an effort to get the guy booted from office, and this is the fantasy where some expert psychologist evaluates him and determines him unfit for office. This isn't going to happen. I think people engaging in this fantasy, more often than not, don't understand mental health or the nature of its treatment all that well. As someone who takes all of this psychology shit very seriously, I find it personally very frustrating.

So this line of argument, I think, only serves to alienate people who support him in a way that also alienates them from the field of psychology in general, which is not good. Thousands of people are impacted by mental illness in this country, and all of this sloppy public dialog will affect their lives and their ablity to receive treatment... all for nothing, because the conversation will not affect Trump's position of power one iota. If you want to talk about the good of society, you have to consider those people, too.

Last edited by Spice Weasel; 01-12-2018 at 08:01 PM.
  #87  
Old 01-12-2018, 08:01 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
I disagree. There's of course no factual answer to questions like, is Trump making America great again. But as to whether Trump is unstable? It's just a fact that he is.

As to whether he is becoming more unstable, that's the sort of question that can either be answered with "Trump is the SUXXXOR" or possibly with some more objective metric. A metric that might be useful and factual could be, for example, polls over time on Amercians' confidence in the President's mental faculties.
You think polls are an objective metric for measuring someone's mental health?
  #88  
Old 01-12-2018, 08:09 PM
Clothahump Clothahump is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 14,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar View Post
Maybe I ought not to have typed "worse" in the title. I am not trying to be very political here. I mean frantic or maybe frenzied. Moving and doing apparently for the sake of the activity itself. Is he doing more stuff of late? I am reading the book just now, and perhaps I am paying more attention.
Keep in mind as you read it that the author has publicly stated that large portions of it are bullshit.
  #89  
Old 01-12-2018, 08:16 PM
running coach's Avatar
running coach running coach is offline
Arms of Steel, Leg of Jello
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Riding my handcycle
Posts: 35,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clothahump View Post
Keep in mind as you read it that the author has publicly stated that large portions of it are bullshit.
No, he didn't.
  #90  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:01 PM
kenobi 65's Avatar
kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is online now
Corellian Nerfherder
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Brookfield, IL
Posts: 12,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by running coach View Post
No, he didn't.
Indeed...how about a cite for that, Clothahump?
  #91  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:01 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 6,535
The author was on Meet The Press, and unless he made that claim during a commercial break, I missed it. I sure can't wait to see the cite for that claim, I bet it's a doozy.
  #92  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:36 PM
Johnny Ace Johnny Ace is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
And, in a debate, the burden of proof is never on the person who is not making an assertion of fact.
Bullshit. That's am excuse I see all the time from the right side of the aisle. You don't get to just say "No" with any credibility whatsoever without backing it up.

And, btw, until you've been a member of a formal, top-league debate team, don't even think about trying to tell someone who knows by experience (like yours truly) what the rules of debate are.

I said this before the last time Shodan tried to get away with it and you backed him up on it. It's flat-out false. As I also said before, you'd get laughed out of a formal debate for trying to pull that.

Last edited by Johnny Ace; 01-12-2018 at 09:38 PM.
  #93  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:05 PM
simster simster is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut View Post
If someone tried to write a fictional book or make a movie predicting this presidency 2 years ago, they would have been laughed out of rooms for being too unrealistic. Comedy section at least.
They did predict this, but President Camacho atleast new when to bate, and when not to.
  #94  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:13 PM
Clothahump Clothahump is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 14,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
Indeed...how about a cite for that, Clothahump?
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...mits-not-all-/
  #95  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:17 PM
running coach's Avatar
running coach running coach is offline
Arms of Steel, Leg of Jello
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Riding my handcycle
Posts: 35,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clothahump View Post
We all know you read this part.
Quote:
“Many of the accounts of what has happened in the Trump White House are in conflict with one another; many, in Trumpian fashion, are boldly untrue. These conflicts, and that looseness with the truth, if not with reality itself, are an elemental thread of the book.”
I'll bet you didn't read this part.
Quote:
“Sometimes,” he wrote, “I have let the players offer their versions, in turn allowing the reader to judge them. In other instances I have, through a consistency in the accounts and through sources I have come to trust, settled on a version of events I believe to be true.”
He did not say the book was bullshit. If you can find that quote, post it.
Why do you have no problem with Trump lying every time he speaks but an account of that lying is untruthful?

Last edited by running coach; 01-12-2018 at 11:19 PM.
  #96  
Old 01-13-2018, 01:48 AM
Paul in Qatar Paul in Qatar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dammam, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 12,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Then why did you post it here? There is no possibility of a factual answer to any question about Trump on the SDMB.

Regards,
Shodan
Thank you. I knew it was somehow my fault. I know you are busy. Thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to point out what a disappointment I am to you.
__________________
800-237-5055
Shrine Hospitals for Children (North America)
Never any fee
Do you know a child in need?
  #97  
Old 01-13-2018, 08:40 AM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
Indeed...how about a cite for that, Clothahump?
No need. Clothahump has publicly stated that large portions of his post were bullshit.
  #98  
Old 01-13-2018, 09:05 AM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 24,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
You think polls are an objective metric for measuring someone's mental health?
I’m not sure if you didn’t actually read my post, or if you’re trying to counter it with a straw man.
  #99  
Old 01-13-2018, 09:07 AM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 24,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clothahump View Post
Keep in mind as you read it that the author has publicly stated that large portions of it are bullshit.
You know the adage about four people on different street corners watching the same accident, and having four different explanations of what happened? After the cop interviews them and writes up what he assesses happened, is what the cop wrote “bullshit?”
  #100  
Old 01-13-2018, 09:09 AM
running coach's Avatar
running coach running coach is offline
Arms of Steel, Leg of Jello
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Riding my handcycle
Posts: 35,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
You know the adage about four people on different street corners watching the same accident, and having four different explanations of what happened? After the cop interviews them and writes up what he assesses happened, is what the cop wrote “bullshit?”
Clothahump is a former cop. I brought up that point in another thread and got no response.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:54 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017