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  #51  
Old 01-09-2018, 09:18 AM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is offline
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My solution:
Shift the season so the conference championship games are three weeks before New Year's Day. This allows for 2 weeks (week before Xmas to NYE) of Who Cares Bowls. In this day of the internet a fan can plan their bowl trip in 5 minutes.

Playoff teams
P5 Champions
at-large: Highest ranked non-P5 champion
at-large: Two highest ranked non-championship teams (I would prefer that a conference cannot have 3 teams but not a deal breaker)

First Round New Year's Day
Rose Bowl: Pac12 vs Big10
Fiesta or Cotton Bowl: Big12 v furthest west at-large team
Sugar Bowl: SEC v central at-large team
Orange Bowl: ACC v furthest east at-large team
(One could argue that if every conference is limited to two teams that at-large teams may be shuffled to avoid conference playing each other. Again not a deal breaker)

Second Round the Saturday after Winter Break for most schools
3 year cycle
Year 1: Rose winner v Fiesta/Cotton winner; Sugar winner v Orange winner
Year 2: Rose winner v Sugar winner; Fiesta/Cotton winner v Orange winner
Year 3: Rose winner v Orange winner; Fiesta/Cotton winner v Sugar winner

Championship one week later (Saturday) on a neutral site (like the Super Bowl)
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  #52  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:30 AM
That Don Guy That Don Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
My solution:
Shift the season so the conference championship games are three weeks before New Year's Day. This allows for 2 weeks (week before Xmas to NYE) of Who Cares Bowls. In this day of the internet a fan can plan their bowl trip in 5 minutes.

Playoff teams
P5 Champions
at-large: Highest ranked non-P5 champion
at-large: Two highest ranked non-championship teams (I would prefer that a conference cannot have 3 teams but not a deal breaker)

First Round New Year's Day
Rose Bowl: Pac12 vs Big10
Fiesta or Cotton Bowl: Big12 v furthest west at-large team
Sugar Bowl: SEC v central at-large team
Orange Bowl: ACC v furthest east at-large team
(One could argue that if every conference is limited to two teams that at-large teams may be shuffled to avoid conference playing each other. Again not a deal breaker)

Second Round the Saturday after Winter Break for most schools
3 year cycle
Year 1: Rose winner v Fiesta/Cotton winner; Sugar winner v Orange winner
Year 2: Rose winner v Sugar winner; Fiesta/Cotton winner v Orange winner
Year 3: Rose winner v Orange winner; Fiesta/Cotton winner v Sugar winner

Championship one week later (Saturday) on a neutral site (like the Super Bowl)
Two problems that I can see:

One - you shouldn't have the possibility of something like 1 vs 2 in the first round, or having 1-2 as one semi-final and, say, 3-7 in the other, especially if the final is one week after the semi-final. You run the risk of the weaker team being in a blowout where the stronger teams are in a slugfest, so the weaker team has an advantage. This is a known "thing"; at one point, the NCAA actually responded to calls to re-seed the final four in basketball with the excuse that you wouldn't get any more "Cinderella champions." At the very least, the top four seeds have to be in separate games.

Two - unless the semi-finals are on NFL conference championship weekend (which is Saturday 1/17 at the earliest) or later, you're going to have these playoffs clash with the NFL playoffs.
  #53  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:32 AM
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SEC Champion = National Champion.

#feelthebutthurt
Except that's wrong. The SEC champ is Georgia.
  #54  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
Except that's wrong. The SEC champ is Georgia.
On paper, yes.
  #55  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:40 AM
ISiddiqui ISiddiqui is offline
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It's all really on paper.
  #56  
Old 01-09-2018, 11:09 AM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is offline
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Originally Posted by That Don Guy View Post
One - you shouldn't have the possibility of something like 1 vs 2 in the first round, or having 1-2 as one semi-final and, say, 3-7 in the other, especially if the final is one week after the semi-final. You run the risk of the weaker team being in a blowout where the stronger teams are in a slugfest, so the weaker team has an advantage.
It would be a problem if the ranking weren't so biased and subjective. I think that any 8 team seeding of top NCAA football teams using polls and rankings is only slightly better than random.

But we certainly can use the 4 bowls to do 1-8, 2-7, etc. provided you can deal with OhMyGarshWhatAboutTradition faction.
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  #57  
Old 01-09-2018, 11:30 AM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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That faction got bought out already, when the BCS system started. Please note that this year the Big 10 and Pac 12 champs met in the Cotton Bowl.
  #58  
Old 01-10-2018, 10:35 AM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is online now
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For what it is worth, here is the system I would implement:

Eight teams are selected by the NCAA to go to the Div I FBS playoffs. These shall consist of the following teams:

The five champions of the Power-5 conferences (ACC, Big-12(10), BiG(-14), Pac-12, SEC).
The top-ranked "Group of Five" conferences champion.
The two top-ranked non-champion schools (from any conference).

Rankings shall be by the NCAA selection committee, based upon selection criteria similar to those used to set the Div-I FCS, Div-II and Div-III playoffs.

The first round of the playoffs shall be held around Christmas. Four bowls from a pool of six or eight will rotate hosting the quarter-finals. Schools are seeded according to ranking.

The second round of the playoffs shall be held around New Year's Day. Two bowls from a pool of four will rotate hosting the semi-finals. Schools are NOT re-seeded (static brackets).

The Final will be held ten days after the semi-finals.

Teams who are quarter-final losers are allowed to participate in New Year's Day bowls at their discretion.

Yeah, it's not perfect, but at least it gets the five conference champs an automatic spot, doesn't leave the top Group of Five school hanging, and allows for some wild cards, because conference championships are determined by playoff game these days, instead of being based upon a round-robin schedule over the season, like any sane system would use (and did, up until not that long ago!).
  #59  
Old 01-10-2018, 12:02 PM
Max Torque Max Torque is offline
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Do away with the playoffs entirely. The college football champion is the one holding the College Football Belt.

The Belt is a championship as it is in boxing: you win the title by beating the current holder, and you hold your title until defeated.

They haven't updated the site for the 2017-2018 season; Clemson had the Belt at the beginning of 2017, having won it from Alabama in January. Clemson lost to Syracuse on October 13, so the Belt passed to them. They lost to the Miami Hurricanes the following week. Miami held the Belt until they lost to Pitt on November 24. So, by Belt standards, the Pittsburgh Panthers are the current champions.

Last edited by Max Torque; 01-10-2018 at 12:03 PM.
  #60  
Old 01-10-2018, 12:07 PM
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If you took the 10 conference champions plus 2 wildcards you'd have almost the same setup as the NFL with the top 4 ranked teams getting a bye week. Unfortunately some first round games would be rather lopsided affairs.

I think there's resistance to enshrining the Power 5 as permanent members of the UN Security Council as evidenced this year by UCF. Not sure what if anything can be done about that other than putting all the conferences on a level playing field.
  #61  
Old 01-10-2018, 01:06 PM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is online now
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Originally Posted by Max Torque View Post
Do away with the playoffs entirely. The college football champion is the one holding the College Football Belt.

The Belt is a championship as it is in boxing: you win the title by beating the current holder, and you hold your title until defeated.

They haven't updated the site for the 2017-2018 season; Clemson had the Belt at the beginning of 2017, having won it from Alabama in January. Clemson lost to Syracuse on October 13, so the Belt passed to them. They lost to the Miami Hurricanes the following week. Miami held the Belt until they lost to Pitt on November 24. So, by Belt standards, the Pittsburgh Panthers are the current champions.
Like the Evil League of Evil trophy. I agree with this idea.
  #62  
Old 01-11-2018, 04:09 AM
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Yeah, anyway, Alabama's the national champion. Much deserved. They're the best team in college football. And despite all the butthurt, Alabama and Georgia turned out to be one of the best college football games ever played.
  #63  
Old 01-11-2018, 11:12 AM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is online now
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I'd buy tickets to an Alabama - UCF game. To that end, I'll take note of UCF's national champion banner as much as Alabama's.
  #64  
Old 01-11-2018, 12:01 PM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is online now
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Originally Posted by Chisquirrel View Post
I'd buy tickets to an Alabama - UCF game. To that end, I'll take note of UCF's national champion banner as much as Alabama's.
I will point out that, even in the bad old days of national polls deciding this issue, it's unlikely that UCF would have finished first. Ample examples can be pointed to.
  #65  
Old 01-11-2018, 02:10 PM
That Don Guy That Don Guy is offline
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I'd buy tickets to an Alabama - UCF game. To that end, I'll take note of UCF's national champion banner as much as Alabama's.
I wonder if the NCAA will as well. I seem to recall that, back in 2003 or so, when Auburn's players got "national champion" rings (really just SEC championship rings with "national champions" engraved on them), Auburn tried putting up a "National Champions" banner, but somebody (the NCAA?) gave them a Severe Glaring At and it was replaced with an "Undefeated Season" banner.

Note that only Alabama can give its players "national champion" rings separate from anything else they are entitled to. In fact, here's a list, right out of the NCAA Bylaws:
  • Season ring (up to $425 for seniors, $225 for underclassmen)
  • Sugar Bowl rings (up to $400 from the school; up to $550 from the bowl organizers)
  • National Championship rings (up to $415 from the school; up to $415 from the SEC)
  • One I am not quite sure of - they may also be allowed CFP Championship Game rings (up to $400 from the school; up to $400 from the CFP organizers), if it qualifies under "other established tournaments" (strictly speaking, the CFP Championship Game is not a "bowl game")
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Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq View Post
I will point out that, even in the bad old days of national polls deciding this issue, it's unlikely that UCF would have finished first. Ample examples can be pointed to.
The only counterexample I can think of - BYU 1984 - was when BYU went 13-0 (they got an extra game because of the "Hawaii rule") and the only other team with a record better than 10-2 was Fullerton State, which was 11-1 at the time, but they were "only" in the PCAA (now Big West). (Fullerton's only loss was to UNLV, which used ineligible players, but it is not clear if UNLV "forfeited" that game, which would make Fullerton's record 12-0, or only "vacated" the win, in which case the 11-1 record is still official.)
  #66  
Old 01-11-2018, 09:06 PM
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I'd buy tickets to an Alabama - UCF game. To that end, I'll take note of UCF's national champion banner as much as Alabama's.
You can - fine if you do. No different than what BYU could have done with respect to Florida in 2007. But when people look at their almanacs, when they look at Google & Wikipedia, they see only one champion. The fact is, most people from the Midwest or Left Coast don't see real football. It's played in the South.

Last edited by asahi; 01-11-2018 at 09:06 PM.
  #67  
Old 01-12-2018, 12:17 PM
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I think the rule should be that only conference champions can be in the final four. If you lost your conference you are not the best team in the country.

The whole BCS/playoff system is an effort to match the two top teams in the country to play for the National Championship. It started because before the 1990s, you had all of the conference tie ins to the bowls such that the top teams would not play each other. The SEC champ went to the Sugar Bowl, the PAC10/BIG10 champs went to the Rose Bowl, etc.

The BCS solved that issue for the most part, but then you had years were there was an argument because there would be three (or more) teams in the discussion of who was the best. So we moved to a playoff system to help eliminate that.

But what I do not believe was intended by this system was to give the losers a do-over. A full season made Georgia the SEC winner over Alabama. That should exclude Alabama from any argument to be champions of the whole country.

I know, I know, the NFL has wild card teams, but the CFB playoffs had the intention outlined above, not to be like the Super Bowl.
  #68  
Old 01-12-2018, 12:53 PM
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I think the rule should be that only conference champions can be in the final four. If you lost your conference you are not the best team in the country.
Well, Alabama lost the conference and beat the team that won that same conference, so what does that make Georgia, then?

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But what I do not believe was intended by this system was to give the losers a do-over. A full season made Georgia the SEC winner over Alabama. That should exclude Alabama from any argument to be champions of the whole country.
Alabama had one loss, and it wasn't to Georgia. It was a road game at the end of the year against a division rival that routinely fields quality teams year-in and year-out. I don't see how this game was any more of a do-over than it was for any of the other teams that had one loss. And I certainly don't see how it was more of a do-over than it would have been for 2-loss teams like Ohio State or USC. Alabama was penalized for one loss because it happened to be in the same division as Auburn. It wasn't a do-over. It was a chance to compete with three other teams for the national championship, which they deserved based on their season. And it looks like they made the committee smart for selecting them, based on the outcome of the playoffs.

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I know, I know, the NFL has wild card teams, but the CFB playoffs had the intention outlined above, not to be like the Super Bowl.
Nonsense.
  #69  
Old 01-12-2018, 01:58 PM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is online now
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Well, Alabama lost the conference and beat the team that won that same conference, so what does that make Georgia, then?



Alabama had one loss, and it wasn't to Georgia. It was a road game at the end of the year against a division rival that routinely fields quality teams year-in and year-out. I don't see how this game was any more of a do-over than it was for any of the other teams that had one loss. And I certainly don't see how it was more of a do-over than it would have been for 2-loss teams like Ohio State or USC. Alabama was penalized for one loss because it happened to be in the same division as Auburn. It wasn't a do-over. It was a chance to compete with three other teams for the national championship, which they deserved based on their season. And it looks like they made the committee smart for selecting them, based on the outcome of the playoffs.
Sorry, but your arguments are not addressing the main issue: if you fail to win the conference, you fail to be the best team from your conference. Therefore, you shouldn't be in the playoffs. The fact that Georgia and Alabama didn't meet is irrelevant to that argument.
  #70  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:37 PM
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Sorry, but your arguments are not addressing the main issue: if you fail to win the conference, you fail to be the best team from your conference. Therefore, you shouldn't be in the playoffs. The fact that Georgia and Alabama didn't meet is irrelevant to that argument.
No, your logic doesn't hold.

If you fail to win your conference, you might not actually get the opportunity to beat the best team in your conference.

Alabama defeated the "best" team in the ACC, and they also their conference...which Oklahoma could not do. So, your basic logic fails, completely and utterly. You clearly don't understand how basic logic functions.

Last edited by asahi; 01-12-2018 at 09:38 PM.
  #71  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:22 PM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is online now
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No, your logic doesn't hold.

If you fail to win your conference, you might not actually get the opportunity to beat the best team in your conference.

Alabama defeated the "best" team in the ACC, and they also their conference...which Oklahoma could not do. So, your basic logic fails, completely and utterly. You clearly don't understand how basic logic functions.
Uh, my logic functions just fine, and at least my post is grammatically correct. Unlike "and they also their conference".

Alabama lost to Auburn. Auburn lost to Georgia. If, during the regular season, Alabama had beaten Georgia, one could argue that Alabama, having failed to be champion, had not demonstrated being worse than the champion. But, as it turns out, they didn't beat Georgia during the season. Therefore, they were not (during the season) the best team in the Conference.

All that they proved by winning the Championship is that being conference champion isn't an indication that you cannot lose to others in the conference, and that arguably, the overall championship shouldn't be limited to teams who were conference champions.
  #72  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:52 PM
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Alabama lost to Auburn. Auburn lost to Georgia. If, during the regular season, Alabama had beaten Georgia, one could argue that Alabama, having failed to be champion, had not demonstrated being worse than the champion. But, as it turns out, they didn't beat Georgia during the season. Therefore, they were not (during the season) the best team in the Conference.


Define "best".

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All that they proved by winning the Championship is that being conference champion isn't an indication that you cannot lose to others in the conference, and that arguably, the overall championship shouldn't be limited to teams who were conference champions.
Exactly.
  #73  
Old 01-13-2018, 10:52 AM
treis treis is offline
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Alabama had one loss, and it wasn't to Georgia. It was a road game at the end of the year against a division rival that routinely fields quality teams year-in and year-out. I don't see how this game was any more of a do-over than it was for any of the other teams that had one loss. And I certainly don't see how it was more of a do-over than it would have been for 2-loss teams like Ohio State or USC. Alabama was penalized for one loss because it happened to be in the same division as Auburn. It wasn't a do-over. It was a chance to compete with three other teams for the national championship, which they deserved based on their season. And it looks like they made the committee smart for selecting them, based on the outcome of the playoffs.
The committee predicted that Alabama would go to their back up QB and suddenly be a whole lot better?

If we are going to give them credit for Alabama, they need to be dinged for their #1 team playing clearly worse than the other three teams in the playoffs. And what about their machinations during the season like moving Miami ahead of Clemson? Hitting on 20 and getting an Ace doesn't make you a brilliant black jack player. It means you got lucky.

We also don't get to see the alternative cases. OSU beat USC easily and UCF beat Auburn. Who's to say that they couldn't have had the same streak Alabama did in the playoffs?

I don't think the playoffs showed anything that people didn't already think, except perhaps Clemson being worse than thought.
  #74  
Old 01-14-2018, 11:53 AM
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I do think it should be noted that Alabama also had one fewer game to play late in the season. One less chance for injuries, one more week of preparation for a reasonably known set of opponents, and one more week of rest/recovery time. They lost their last game of the season and were rewarded with a bye week into the playoffs.
  #75  
Old 01-28-2018, 01:12 PM
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Alabama has twice proven that you can win the national championship without winning your conference. Why should losing one game eliminate you from the playoffs? Clemson, Georgia and Oklahoma all lost one game and they weren't eliminated from the playoffs. (Ironically, it's because their losses were to teams not good enough to vie for a divisional championship.) *

The bigger the playoff field, the less the regular season means, and the more likely that a lesser team can upset a better team.

I have lived in Kentucky, where I've heard U.K. basketball fans say "It doesn't matter that we lost last night, as long as we make the playoffs." I want the regular season to matter. Since the playoffs were expanded from 2 teams to 4 teams, every team essentially gets 1 mulligan. If the playoffs go to 8 teams, then every team will get 2 mulligans.

That being said, the playoffs had to be expanded from 2 to 4 because there are often 3 teams that can legitimately say "We are the best team in the country and we deserve a chance to prove it." When was the last time that there were 5 teams that could say that? It is theoretically possible that you could end the season with 5 undefeated conference champions, but that won't happen more than once in the next millennium.
With only 2 teams, you are often going to have a team like Southern Cal or Auburn that gets left out despite having a legitimate argument. That's not going to happen with 4 teams.

4 is the right number to insure that no deserving team gets left out, while not including so many teams that the regular season no longer matters.


* [Not intending to get political here, but I don't like any situation where bureaucrats preemptively take the decision making out of the hands of the proper judges, such as mandatory sentencing or outlawing a medical procedure.]
  #76  
Old 01-28-2018, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Rucksinator View Post
Alabama has twice proven that you can win the national championship without winning your conference. Why should losing one game eliminate you from the playoffs? Clemson, Georgia and Oklahoma all lost one game and they weren't eliminated from the playoffs. (Ironically, it's because their losses were to teams not good enough to vie for a divisional championship.)
Auburn *WAS* good enough "to vie for a divisional championship."

They won their division.

They were *IN* the Conference Championship.

If Auburn beats Georgia in the SEC Championship game, they are in the CFP.
  #77  
Old 01-29-2018, 01:03 AM
Rucksinator Rucksinator is offline
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Auburn *WAS* good enough "to vie for a divisional championship."

They won their division.

They were *IN* the Conference Championship.

If Auburn beats Georgia in the SEC Championship game, they are in the CFP.
Yes, I think a 2-loss Auburn team would have made the playoffs. I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not, though.
  #78  
Old 01-29-2018, 07:58 AM
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Yes, I think a 2-loss Auburn team would have made the playoffs. I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not, though.
He's pointing out that Georgia's loss wasn't to a team that wasn't "good enough to vie for a divisional championship" - their loss was to Auburn, a team that won their division.
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