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  #51  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:00 AM
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They are everywhere, including South America, Asia, Europe. I've found them on remote islands. My discovery was of an ancient global civilization that collapsed 4500 -5500 years ago, but my advisors demanded I make it a North American study.

Ooowkay there. I'mma take a few steps backs veeeery slowly while keeping my hands in a non-threatening posture now.

Then I'mma fucking leg it.
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  #52  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:03 AM
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Ooowkay there. I'mma take a few steps backs veeeery slowly while keeping my hands in a non-threatening posture now.

Then I'mma fucking leg it.
Yeah, skeptic-tactic numero uno, avoid evidence contrary to your current thought pattern.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
  #53  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:10 AM
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Yeah, we didn't build those canals...they are pre-columbian.
No, we know exactly who built them, and when. The New Deal is well documented recent history, FFS.
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They are everywhere, including South America, Asia, Europe. I've found them on remote islands. My discovery was of an ancient global civilization that collapsed 4500 -5500 years ago, but my advisors demanded I make it a North American study.
Why are you going back to Uni, Graham? Is the book money not coming in like it used to?
  #54  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:11 AM
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No, we know exactly who built them, and when. The New Deal is well documented recent history, FFS.

Why are you going back to Uni, Graham? Is the book money not coming in like it used to?
Uh, No.

Did they build these too? https://imgur.com/gallery/fM9buJk

What about these? https://imgur.com/gallery/QHCzceo

Last edited by King of the Americas; 08-01-2019 at 07:15 AM.
  #55  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:13 AM
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These same formations were found and dated in Bolivia to 4700- https://imgur.com/gallery/RfWqVP0
Is there a grid pattern in that picture that I'm not seeing?
  #56  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:14 AM
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Uh, No.

Did they build these too? https://imgur.com/gallery/fM9buJk
"these"? You mean the modern farms? Or the archaeological trenching?

Last edited by MrDibble; 08-01-2019 at 07:15 AM.
  #57  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:24 AM
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Is there a grid pattern in that picture that I'm not seeing?
Not in that image.

So my find is of a global industrial agricultural society. They farmed on MASSIVE scales, and employed this rectangular grid garden and or "fluvial fields" which is what you see imaged here. Similar formations such as these have been dated to 4700 years ago.
  #58  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:26 AM
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"these"? You mean the modern farms? Or the archaeological trenching?
Here's a mind blower, Yes, modern farmers are now employing these fields, and we can create enough food to feed what 500 million people, easily, in America alone...?

"They are only one-third occupied."

THAT means, at full production, these areas could have fed BILLIONS...
  #59  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:28 AM
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Not in that image
So what the fuck did you mean by "those same formations"?
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:30 AM
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So what the fuck did you mean by "those same formations"?
Fluvial fields...terraforming raised gardens to help with irrigation. They are ancient, massive, and largely unused today.
  #61  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:32 AM
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Here's a mind blower, Yes, modern farmers are now employing these fields
My mind remains unblown.

Also, those fields look nothing like the Bolivian ones, which look nothing like the channels in South Oyster Bay wetlands.

Which university was it, that kept you in the Masters program after you first suggested this? I'm just needing to fill out this report to the accreditation board...
  #62  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:33 AM
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You are Episode 1, Series 1 of The Detectorists, and I claim my five pounds.

SPOILER:
Quote:
LANCE: See, I was reading about how coz we’ve had a hot, dry summer all the earthworks and archaeological features are showing up as dry patches in fields.
ANDY: Right...
LANCE: So I had a look, on Google Earth. Looked around the area, scanned the fields see what I could see.
ANDY: Right...
LANCE: And look! Henburystone. Those cabbage fields off the B1010, have a look...
*Andy leans in close.*
LANCE (CONT’D): There!
*Lance points at the screen.*
LANCE (CONT’D): Ring shaped feature in the field.
ANDY: Ok...
LANCE: Iron-age round-house! Look at it! But ‘what’s more’ over here, to the right...voila! Another one!
*He moves the mouse and then points again at the screen.*
LANCE (CONT’D): And then...move over to the right we’ve got another, slightly larger circular feature but this time with some sort of entrance. A gateway! All in a line! It’s a fucking iron age settlement!
*Andy looks at Lance, trying to figure out if he’s serious or not.*
ANDY: Iron-age settlement?
LANCE: What? Look at it! They’re right there. All in a line!
ANDY: Mate. You look at it.
*Lance looks closely.*
ANDY (CONT’D): Notice anything?
LANCE: No...what?
ANDY: Do these “features” seem to spell anything?
LANCE: No... wait... G...O..O...... fuck it!
ANDY: Do they seem to spell ‘Google’?
LANCE: Fuck it!
ANDY: You prick.
LANCE: It’s the Google Earth water mark.
ANDY: It’s the Google Earth water mark.
LANCE: You’ve made that mistake before haven’t you?
ANDY: Yeah but I realised after fifteen seconds and never told anyone.
  #63  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:35 AM
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Is there a grid pattern in that picture that I'm not seeing?
Grid Gardens/Rectangles- https://imgur.com/gallery/Fr1gxXh

https://imgur.com/gallery/fM9buJk
  #64  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:36 AM
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Fluvial fields...terraforming raised gardens to help with irrigation.
Sorry, I don't speak Woo - Are you trying to say "terraces"?
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They are ancient, massive, and largely unused today.
Terraces are still used all over the world, mate.

Last edited by MrDibble; 08-01-2019 at 07:39 AM.
  #65  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:38 AM
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Grid Gardens/Rectangles- https://imgur.com/gallery/Fr1gxXh
Overton Love wasn't exactly a pre-Contact Native American.
  #66  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:42 AM
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My mind remains unblown.

Also, those fields look nothing like the Bolivian ones, which look nothing like the channels in South Oyster Bay wetlands.

Which university was it, that kept you in the Masters program after you first suggested this? I'm just needing to fill out this report to the accreditation board...
If you remain unimpressed, that's on you.

You KNOW this because you have investigated this area, and the Bolivian fields? ROTFLMAO

They rejected my topic/finding...what do you want to report?

Do you have a bonfire I could climb upon, before you start screaming "Heretic, burn the State-Hater, he wishes to supplant our History with Truth! Burn the discoverer, bury his facts!"
  #67  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:43 AM
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Overton Love wasn't exactly a pre-Contact Native American.
Uh, No. In fact the entire Chickasaw Nation were moved onto those lands from East of the Mississippi. Laying FURTHER claim that these rectangles are pre-columbian.
  #68  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:45 AM
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Sorry, I don't speak Woo - Are you trying to say "terraces"?
Terraces are still used all over the world, mate.
Yep, and if you dig into them, you'll see they are ancient, not modern.

Just because you live in a Castle doesn't mean you built it
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:47 AM
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If you remain unimpressed, that's on you.
I'll gladly own not being impressed by 3 aerial shots of farms that look nothing alike.
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You KNOW this because you have investigated this area, and the Bolivian fields?
No, I "KNOW" this because I have functioning eyes.
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They rejected my topic/finding...
"... but I'll SHOW them!!!!!!!" eh?
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what do you want to report?
They let you change your topic, rather than laughing you out of the meeting, didn't they?
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Do you have a bonfire I could climb upon, before you start screaming "Heretic, burn the State-Hater, he wishes to supplant our History with Truth! Burn the discoverer, bury his facts!"
Yeah, Graham Hancock is so persecuted....
  #70  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:52 AM
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Uh, No. In fact the entire Chickasaw Nation were moved onto those lands from East of the Mississippi.
That's kind of irrelevant. Now, if you had a pre-contact aerial shot for comparison... possibly from some sort of vimāna?
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Yep, and if you dig into them, you'll see they are ancient, not modern.
I don't dispute that terracing goes back to prehistory.

I dispute that that means a unified global society.
  #71  
Old 08-01-2019, 08:01 AM
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I'll gladly own not being impressed by 3 aerial shots of farms that look nothing alike.

No, I "KNOW" this because I have functioning eyes.

"... but I'll SHOW them!!!!!!!" eh?

They let you change your topic, rather than laughing you out of the meeting, didn't they?

Yeah, Graham Hancock is so persecuted....
Oh dear god...you understand that these fields are laid into existing land features...so NO WHERE would they be perfectly identical...

EXCEPT THAT, the 'grid gardens' ARE the same size and shape, AND global in scope.

Do you fall down, like a lot?

First, they demanded I narrow my topic to North America, then they told me I had no primary sources. I found some using the Rectangle Survey data, sparse as it was, I did find one grid garden intact, with ALL of the primary sourced data I'd need. I spent a summer writing my prospectus. The Chair of my board admitted that he didn't even read it, and instead took the advice of the other two members, and rejected the topic of the "Thomas Jefferson's Rectangle Survey System, in South-Central Oklahoma"...out of hand.

Hancock is the aliens did it, guy.

For invoking that garbage, I'd like to metaphorically kick you in the crotch. That's intellectual dishonesty to a disgusting degree.

"MrDribble, when you beat you wife, do you always smile?"

Do you see how disgusting that invocation is?

Stop.
  #72  
Old 08-01-2019, 08:02 AM
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That's kind of irrelevant. Now, if you had a pre-contact aerial shot for comparison... possibly from some sort of vimāna?

I don't dispute that terracing goes back to prehistory.

I dispute that that means a unified global society.
Size, shape, and unified dates indicate a global connection.
  #73  
Old 08-01-2019, 08:11 AM
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That's kind of irrelevant. Now, if you had a pre-contact aerial shot for comparison... possibly from some sort of vimāna?

I don't dispute that terracing goes back to prehistory.

I dispute that that means a unified global society.
Overton used the land to raise cattle not farm. He IS the pre-contact owner of the land. He was wise in his choice of lands, and even with no machinery acquired more land than any other Amerindian before or after. Each field, rectangular in shape will hold 150 football fields- https://imgur.com/gallery/GekLGRo

Surveyor field notes indicate, drainage ditches, roads, fences, ALL existed before Overton got there. He had not ability to carve roads, dig miles of drainage ditches. When surveyors saw this, they had no idea they were looking at geometric formations.

Last edited by King of the Americas; 08-01-2019 at 08:15 AM.
  #74  
Old 08-01-2019, 08:35 AM
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EXCEPT THAT, the 'grid gardens' ARE the same size and shape, AND global in scope.
Humans worldwide faced with similar challenge produce vaguely (very vaguely!) similar solutions! News at 11!
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First,The Chair of my board admitted that he didn't even read it, and instead took the advice of the other two members, and rejected the topic of the "Thomas Jefferson's Rectangle Survey System, in South-Central Oklahoma"...out of hand.
So this university (whichever it is) isn't a complete lost cause, then. Good to know.
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Hancock is the aliens did it, guy.
No, that's von Daniken. Hancock is the prehistoric human global civilization guy.

Well, one of them, apparently.

Last edited by MrDibble; 08-01-2019 at 08:36 AM.
  #75  
Old 08-01-2019, 08:44 AM
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On that note, Overton Love, a Chickasaw Amerindian, owned over 5000 acres...until the Dawes Act.
Sure; in the 19th century. He was born in 1823.

Your claim that this document from the late 1800's proves something about land ownership 400 years earlier is enough in itself to disqualify any thesis containing it from serious consideration.


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Within the scope of that exercise, we 'could' have looked for the location of the actual house...examine the area for historical context...ask Why did these people have these items, what place or function did they have or serve in their society.
Before you could do any of that, you would still need a list of those items and who had them. How could you ask why they had the items or what function they served without first asking what they were?

You seem to be very annoyed that you were expected to help do the necessary background work that must be done before it's possible to do anything else useful with the information,

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Fluvial fields...terraforming raised gardens to help with irrigation. They are ancient, massive, and largely unused today.
Yes, people in various places have been using terraces (which is not "terraforming") and irrigation systems for a very long time. Yes, although some of them are still in use, some of them have fallen into disrepair, whether because the disparate cultures which built them collapsed or were conquered and the terraces were abandoned, or because the small terrace areas don't work with standard modern farming techniques. Yes, such small scale handwork farming can be highly productive.

No, they are not rectangular! Such terrace systems by their very nature have to follow the contours of the land in the particular place in which they're built. They are extremely site-specific. Nobody took a rectangular template and used it in all the multiple cultures that went in for terraces. That would just plain not have worked.

The fields are going to be similar sizes and shapes because the humans who built and who work/ed in them are similar sizes and shapes, and because building terraces on steep slopes follows the same laws of physics. You could just as well say that because the interiors of large numbers of rooms all over the world fall into a similar height range that this must have been ordained by an overall society, as opposed to having to do with the height of the people using them.

-- and while some terrace systems were irrigated, the terraces aren't there primarily to make the irrigation work. Some ancient irrigation systems worked with terraces, others didn't. Terrace systems are used on steep hillsides, to keep the soil in place and allow building fertile soil, and thereby make it possible to cultivate areas that are unfarmable if left in their natural steep slope.

The fact that people in various places in which the terrain's suitable for terrace farming had this same bright idea doesn't mean that they were part of the same top-down culture telling farmers to do this. It means that over millennia there have been a lot of smart farmers in various places in the world. There may at some points have been some communication; but communication between different societies, without their all turning into the same society, is -- or at least used to be -- a very common thing.
  #76  
Old 08-01-2019, 08:46 AM
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Overton used the land to raise cattle not farm.
Raising cattle is farming.
Quote:

He IS the pre-contact owner of the land.
So when he died he was over 400 years old, is what you're saying?
Quote:
Surveyor field notes indicate, drainage ditches, roads, fences, ALL existed before Overton got there. He had not ability to carve roads, dig miles of drainage ditches. When surveyors saw this, they had no idea they were looking at geometric formations.
Uh-huh. Cite?

Let's just check one thing before I go on - are you aware of the existence and extent and, most importantly, age, of the Mississipian Culture?

Last edited by MrDibble; 08-01-2019 at 08:49 AM.
  #77  
Old 08-01-2019, 08:52 AM
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Humans worldwide faced with similar challenge produce vaguely (very vaguely!) similar solutions! News at 11!

So this university (whichever it is) isn't a complete lost cause, then. Good to know.

No, that's von Daniken. Hancock is the prehistoric human global civilization guy.

Well, one of them, apparently.
Okay, If you are going to ignore industrial sized, rectangle shaped, global farms, I think your ignorance is the real new story here.

Riiiight...why in the name of all that is academically holy should an Amerindian student be allowed to study and research how one of the founding fathers instituted thievery...*TRUTH HERE* look the other way everyone...MOVE ALONG, Trail of Tears, nothing to remember...

I pity your kind of ignorance.
  #78  
Old 08-01-2019, 09:02 AM
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...

Your claim that this document from the late 1800's proves something about land ownership 400 years earlier is enough in itself to disqualify any thesis containing it from serious consideration.


...
That's the only primary sourced data I have, from which to begin my Historical analysis, AND it isn't where I began or ended, it is ONE piece of evidence.

Nothing else of what you wrote invalidates any of my findings. Fluvial fields and grid gardens are two separate things. Flat plains got grid gardens, hilly areas got fluvial fields, but when you date the bottom layer, you get 4500-5500 years ago.

In "America" alone, there were enough to feed over 1 BILLION people... THAT's is crazy!

This civilization was super-active, comparatively speaking about agricultural efforts.
  #79  
Old 08-01-2019, 09:05 AM
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Raising cattle is farming.
So when he died he was over 400 years old, is what you're saying?
Uh-huh. Cite?

Let's just check one thing before I go on - are you aware of the existence and extent and, most importantly, age, of the Mississipian Culture?
No, it's "ranching." You gotta plow, plant, and harvest to "farm"...

I cannot believe I am arguing with you.

We don't speak the same language, because you don't understand words.

Be well, buddy. I can't help you.

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Last edited by King of the Americas; 08-01-2019 at 09:07 AM.
  #80  
Old 08-01-2019, 09:50 AM
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No, it's "ranching." You gotta plow, plant, and harvest to "farm"...
Here, I'll use the simple Wikipedia, just for you...
Farming is growing crops or keeping animals by people for food and raw materials
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We don't speak the same language
No. I speak English.The ranch/farm distinction is more what one would call an Americanism.
  #81  
Old 08-01-2019, 09:55 AM
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Yes, history is definitely literature. I'd argue that's its defining aspect. Archaeology is a science, one that historians use to great extent. But history has specific named characters, and a plot. Science tells us that Sumerians wore a certain type of clothing and made a particular style of art and built their houses a particular way and buried their dead in a certain way. But history tells us that King Sargon was born to a high priestess and then put into a basket and floated down the river, where a gardener found him and raised the boy who later would conquer Sumer and found the Akkadian Empire. It's literally, like it says on the tin, a "story". History is the stories we tell ourselves about the past. Lately, accuracy and scientific confirmation has become paramount in the field of History, but it wasn't always that way, as the highly dubious story of Sargon's birth illustrates. But it is still history. Herodotus and Thucydides are generally agreed to have invented history, but I'd argue literature like the Illiad and Gilgamesh were history in the same sense, just not as accurate or literal. But they were stories a culture told about itself and its past.

You can see even today how history is often about our current society's perspective of itself than about any sort of unbiased collection of facts. Look at Columbus, for example. He was considered an American hero for centuries, and we taught our kids that he discovered America and we created a holiday in his honor. But now we're told that Columbus was a monster, that he was racist, murderous, genocidal, slave owning scum. The facts didn't change. But the story we tell ourselves did change. That's history in action. Commentary about motives, personality and even morality is essential in the practice of history, while that stuff is irrelevant to a science like archaeology.
  #82  
Old 08-01-2019, 10:02 AM
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Here, I'll use the simple Wikipedia, just for you...
Farming is growing crops or keeping animals by people for food and raw materials

No. I speak English.The ranch/farm distinction is more what one would call an Americanism.
I duly object this of feckless pettifogging.

You've done everything but address the countless global images, industrial in size, similar in size and shape, carbon dated to 4500, documented in surveyor notes, MADE ACCESSIBLE TO YOU, to arrive at what conclusion?

That the Army Corps of Engineers was building these rectangles before the 20th century?

AND all around the world...?



HOW in all that is based on truth and facts are you THIS flipping dense???

Are you in therapy, now? Can I offer you like a gift certificate to somewhere?

Last edited by King of the Americas; 08-01-2019 at 10:02 AM.
  #83  
Old 08-01-2019, 10:02 AM
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industrial sized, rectangle shaped, global farms
The Anatolian plots weren't "industrial sized" and only vaguely rectangular, the Bolivian andenes were neither "industrial sized" nor "rectangle shaped" (did you mean "rectangular"? It is a word we English-speakers have.) And if you think Love's 75-ha plots are "industrial size", you've clearly never seen an actual industrial farm.
  #84  
Old 08-01-2019, 10:04 AM
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Yes, history is definitely literature. I'd argue that's its defining aspect. Archaeology is a science, one that historians use to great extent. But history has specific named characters, and a plot. Science tells us that Sumerians wore a certain type of clothing and made a particular style of art and built their houses a particular way and buried their dead in a certain way. But history tells us that King Sargon was born to a high priestess and then put into a basket and floated down the river, where a gardener found him and raised the boy who later would conquer Sumer and found the Akkadian Empire. It's literally, like it says on the tin, a "story". History is the stories we tell ourselves about the past. Lately, accuracy and scientific confirmation has become paramount in the field of History, but it wasn't always that way, as the highly dubious story of Sargon's birth illustrates. But it is still history. Herodotus and Thucydides are generally agreed to have invented history, but I'd argue literature like the Illiad and Gilgamesh were history in the same sense, just not as accurate or literal. But they were stories a culture told about itself and its past.

You can see even today how history is often about our current society's perspective of itself than about any sort of unbiased collection of facts. Look at Columbus, for example. He was considered an American hero for centuries, and we taught our kids that he discovered America and we created a holiday in his honor. But now we're told that Columbus was a monster, that he was racist, murderous, genocidal, slave owning scum. The facts didn't change. But the story we tell ourselves did change. That's history in action. Commentary about motives, personality and even morality is essential in the practice of history, while that stuff is irrelevant to a science like archaeology.
Thank you. That was a great response.

Please feel free to expound upon my other offerings, here.
  #85  
Old 08-01-2019, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
You've done everything but address the countless global images, industrial in size, similar in size and shape, carbon dated to 4500, documented in surveyor notes, MADE ACCESSIBLE TO YOU, to arrive at what conclusion?
"Countless" must mean something different in your language. In my language (English), it's definitely not "five".

I've dealt with the imagined "similarities" in the handful of photos you have posted, in the last post.

You haven't cited these surveyor notes, or any carbon dating lab reports, so no, nothing of any scientific merit was made "ACCESSIBLE" to me.

I can't give my conclusion in this thread, but I have already done so in the Pit...

Last edited by MrDibble; 08-01-2019 at 10:08 AM.
  #86  
Old 08-01-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Do you fall down, like a lot?

...

For invoking that garbage, I'd like to metaphorically kick you in the crotch. That's intellectual dishonesty to a disgusting degree.
This is a warning for threats. Threats of any kind are not allowed anywhere on this board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
HOW in all that is based on truth and facts are you THIS flipping dense???

Are you in therapy, now? Can I offer you like a gift certificate to somewhere?
This is a warning for personal insults. Personal insults are only allowed in the Pit.

***

I recommend you familiarize yourself with the rules of the board and those of each forum. Continued violations will result in revocation of your posting privileges.

***
I'm closing this thread because it's off the rails. Arguments are not a series of imgur links. At first this was about the role of government and literature in the teaching of history, but it took a quick turn into strangeness. If there is a desire to have a debate about agricultural practices throughout history, or ley lines, or whatever, open a new thread with a coherent premise for debate. If it's more of the same those threads will be closed as well.

[/moderating]

Last edited by Bone; 08-01-2019 at 10:17 AM.
  #87  
Old 08-01-2019, 01:56 PM
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King of the Americas - After abusive PMs were sent, I decided to just ban you. Doesn't really deserve a separate thread, but I figured I'd drop this note here.

[/moderating]
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