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  #151  
Old 07-09-2018, 01:15 AM
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If he went "soft" on immigration, in the view of his base, I think he'd lose some of them. And we know he's not going to go "soft" on immigration.

Other than that, I don't think he can do anything to hurt his standing with them. ...
If he were to pick a liberal for the SCOTUS, his base would abandon him in droves.
  #152  
Old 07-09-2018, 07:48 AM
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If he were to pick a liberal for the SCOTUS, his base would abandon him in droves.
True. I missed that one, and there would be an issue if he picked a liberal.

I don't think there's any danger of that happening. He had a ready-made list for SCOTUS replacements before he even came to office, I think made by the Federalist Society, and he will pick from that list. None of the possibilities are remotely liberal.
  #153  
Old 07-23-2018, 03:32 PM
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They don't have a watercooler here; it's a kool-aid dispenser.

Tariffs Trim a Factory’s Profit, but Loyalty to Trump Endures
https://nyti.ms/2OcGMFM

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COLUMBUS, Ohio — You might think that managers and workers at Banner Metals would be up in arms over the Trump administration’s trade policies. After all, tariffs on imported steel and aluminum have pushed raw-material prices up and margins down, forcing the company to delay plans to purchase a new $1 million cutting machine and hire two new employees to operate it.

But the reaction at the plant is based on more than self-interest. “I’m not looking at what’s best for Banner right now,” said Bronson Jones, a part-owner of the company and its chief executive. “I’m looking at what’s best for the national economy. The U.S. has been taken advantage of for too long.”

That proposition, tracing a volatile political fault line, is frequently encountered on the factory floor here, a few miles from this prosperous city’s gleaming downtown.

Casey Jackson, a maintenance technician, said he would support the tariffs even if they cost him personally. “If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,” he said. “You got to look at the big picture. That tiny bit of sacrifice we make will create jobs.”

...

Nevertheless, while Mr. Jones isn’t always comfortable with what the president may say or put on Twitter, he likes the overall strategy.

“He’s going for the jugular, which is typical Trump style,” he said. “I’m not used to it, and it’s not a presidential style we are accustomed to. But he’s the only president who’s taken a significant stance on trade, and we need a brash approach.”

...

Mr. Sayre concurred — with one caveat. “I never cared much for the way Trump does it, but he’s doing O.K. as far as I’m concerned,” he said. What exactly doesn’t he like? “The way he bullies everybody and bends the truth,” Mr. Sayre said.

Back on the factory floor, Mr. Jackson said he was comfortable with the president’s game plan. “It’s aggressive, it’s tough, and he won’t back down,” Mr. Jackson said. “Using trade as a bargaining chip will help someone else put food on the table.”

James Ford, another hourly employee, who is a production supervisor, jumped into the conversation. “I like that Trump doesn’t sugarcoat anything,” he said. “People get offended very easily by somebody being direct.”
....
<shrug>
  #154  
Old 07-23-2018, 04:08 PM
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Trump's base will never turn on him as long as the alternative is perceived as being worse. If there were someone better than Trump waiting in the wings (Pence is not Trump-like to some extent) then they would agitate for Trump to be gone, but as long as the alternative is a liberal and/or Democrat, then Trump's better to them.
  #155  
Old 07-23-2018, 04:38 PM
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Again, I would like to note that since "Trump's base" is largely defined as "those who support Trump", the answer is "never".

If the definition is "racists, assholes, and conservatives of varying stripes", then when a competent "Trump" comes along, a large number of those will likely ditch the old DJT for the new DJT.

Articles like the above posted by ThelmaLou don't bother me. People don't care about hypotheticals, they care about reality. The "hypothetical" of a new cutter and 2 employees is irrelevant as long as they keep their jobs. When they lose their jobs and find out that their gov't benefits have been cut or eliminated, then they will likely turn on him.

Last edited by JohnT; 07-23-2018 at 04:39 PM.
  #156  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:22 PM
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Something I read today made me want to ask this question, so I hunted down this old thread to ask it:

Would thump's evangelical supporters turn on him/dump him if positive proof came to light that he had paid for several abortions for his various lady friends?

By "positive proof" I don't mean articles in WaPo or the New York Times (i.e. fake news), but video testimony from doctors, nurses, the women themselves, invoices, canceled checks, credit card receipts, etc. Yes, people would question the validity of the evidence, but for the sake of argument, let's say that the evidence is watertight and the evangelicals actually DO believe it.

My question is, would that certain knowledge of his paying for abortions, cause them to turn against him, or would they make excuses, consider him excused from their beliefs, say stuff (again) like "God uses evil men to accomplish His own ends," etc.?

Would this be a case of "shooting someone on 5th Ave" and it would be okay with them?
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  #157  
Old 05-21-2019, 09:47 PM
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Something I read today made me want to ask this question, so I hunted down this old thread to ask it:

Would thump's evangelical supporters turn on him/dump him if positive proof came to light that he had paid for several abortions for his various lady friends?

By "positive proof" I don't mean articles in WaPo or the New York Times (i.e. fake news), but video testimony from doctors, nurses, the women themselves, invoices, canceled checks, credit card receipts, etc. Yes, people would question the validity of the evidence, but for the sake of argument, let's say that the evidence is watertight and the evangelicals actually DO believe it.

My question is, would that certain knowledge of his paying for abortions, cause them to turn against him, or would they make excuses, consider him excused from their beliefs, say stuff (again) like "God uses evil men to accomplish His own ends," etc.?

Would this be a case of "shooting someone on 5th Ave" and it would be okay with them?
I don't think it would change their minds. They'd still say it was faked even if it didn't come from WaPo or NYT. They'd say it was forged documents and actors from the deep state. Even if they believed it, they'd say he's changed now (he's obviously so mild mannered and family oriented these days /sarcasm).

There doesn't seem to be anything that would change their minds. If they lost their jobs en masse and/or the economy otherwise tanked in some way that was unavoidable to them and was obviously based on a policy tRump enacted, then yeah I think he'd be abandoned. But he'll do everything he possibly can to keep that from happening and somehow it always works. The stock market starts to go down a little so he relaxes some economic sanctions against China and stocks shoot back up. Ford (I think it was) starts to lay off some workers but tRump calls them to complain and they seriously do what he tells them. Etc. I wonder what a major business would have done if a past president had called them to complain about layoffs?
  #158  
Old 05-21-2019, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
Something I read today made me want to ask this question, so I hunted down this old thread to ask it:

Would thump's evangelical supporters turn on him/dump him if positive proof came to light that he had paid for several abortions for his various lady friends?

By "positive proof" I don't mean articles in WaPo or the New York Times (i.e. fake news), but video testimony from doctors, nurses, the women themselves, invoices, canceled checks, credit card receipts, etc. Yes, people would question the validity of the evidence, but for the sake of argument, let's say that the evidence is watertight and the evangelicals actually DO believe it.

My question is, would that certain knowledge of his paying for abortions, cause them to turn against him, or would they make excuses, consider him excused from their beliefs, say stuff (again) like "God uses evil men to accomplish His own ends," etc.?

Would this be a case of "shooting someone on 5th Ave" and it would be okay with them?
Of course not. As long as he is "sticking it to the Libs!"
  #159  
Old 05-21-2019, 09:56 PM
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Hur hur. Librul heads explode. Hur hur hur.
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  #160  
Old 05-21-2019, 09:57 PM
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Hur hur. Librul heads explode. Hur hur hur.
It saddens me that 60 million people think this.
  #161  
Old 05-21-2019, 10:04 PM
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Just check out the comments on the Fox News and Breitbart sites. At least 30% of the people who post there would chop off their own dicks if it would make “librul heads essplode.”
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  #162  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:45 PM
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RE: the OP's question

Nothing. The basest of his base are firmly ensconced, and empowered to spew bigoted rhetoric at every turn because he "says what needs to be said/what we're thinking!"

I must humbly defer to this simple one panel cartoon:

https://www.google.com/search?q=i+am...67rW8vz9zeBMM:
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  #163  
Old 05-22-2019, 12:30 AM
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You know, I don't understand people who are surprised Trump's base will never turn on him. We already seen with George W Bush and Obama that they could do anything and their base wouldn't really budge. Obama basically sat at an 85% approval rating among Democrats (plus or minus 5 points) for his entire Presidency despite all the major things he did that wound up pissing off people on the left (The NSA stuff was the closest I've seen people here almost break from him but they quickly forgave him for it). People in this topic already brought up what would have turned them against Obama at the time but those really seem like post-rationalizations since at the time people here were already making excuses for everything he was doing. If he totally shit the bed and somehow got us into yet another major war I highly doubt most of the people here would have turned on him. We already had a lot of public people from Day 1 of his Presidency who claimed they would never turn on Obama no matter what he did, which is basically what Trump's base said once he got elected as well.
  #164  
Old 05-22-2019, 12:41 AM
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We already had a lot of public people from Day 1 of his Presidency who claimed they would never turn on Obama no matter what he did...
Like who?
  #165  
Old 05-22-2019, 01:45 AM
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You know, I don't understand people who are surprised Trump's base will never turn on him. We already seen with George W Bush and Obama that they could do anything and their base wouldn't really budge. Obama basically sat at an 85% approval rating among Democrats (plus or minus 5 points) for his entire Presidency despite all the major things he did that wound up pissing off people on the left (The NSA stuff was the closest I've seen people here almost break from him but they quickly forgave him for it). People in this topic already brought up what would have turned them against Obama at the time but those really seem like post-rationalizations since at the time people here were already making excuses for everything he was doing. If he totally shit the bed and somehow got us into yet another major war I highly doubt most of the people here would have turned on him. We already had a lot of public people from Day 1 of his Presidency who claimed they would never turn on Obama no matter what he did, which is basically what Trump's base said once he got elected as well.
If Obama had been a bullshit spewing, pathologically lying, solely self-serving, mentally lazy, and contemptibly vile, two-bit fraud, you might have a point. In such a case, I would have joined the Republicans in calling for impeachment.

But that wasn’t the case, so this false equivalency doesn't fly. This isn’t about policy—or rather, the policy is secondary here.
  #166  
Old 05-22-2019, 02:00 AM
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If Obama had been a bullshit spewing, pathologically lying, solely self-serving, mentally lazy, and contemptibly vile, two-bit fraud, you might have a point. In such a case, I would have joined the Republicans in calling for impeachment.
This is a good post...
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  #167  
Old 05-22-2019, 02:14 AM
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I think that Mr. Trump will always have a core base for whom he can do no wrong. If he shot somebody on 5th Avenue in New York, then his base will say that that person obviously needed shooting. If traditional, long-term, trade partners have tariffs applied against them by Mr. Trump, then obviously they've been taking advantage of the US for years, and need to be taught a lesson. If refugees are applying for perfectly legal asylum to the US under international treaties to which the US is a signatory, then they are illegals who only want to vote (illegally, of course) Democrat. That's Mr. Trump's base.

I see this in another board I follow, but rarely post to; and when I do, it's mostly to correct the incorrect assumptions that "Canadians are subjects of the Queen" and "Canadians are socialists who have no freedom." I stay out of the discussions where "Trump is putting the lib'ruls in their place," and "Kavanaugh will teach those Dim-o-crats a lesson," and "Massive Trump rally attended by thousands in Pennsylvania while Biden only got a couple of dozen at his rally." Trump supporters live in a bubble, surrounded by other Trump supporters, none of whom ever engage outside that bubble, so they are not exposed to other points of view, it seems to me.

Nobody can convince these people that Mr. Trump is nothing less than the second coming of Christ. So--don't bother trying to convince them. Instead, work on the waffling, on-the-edge Republicans, who could hold their nose and vote Democrat to stop Mr. Trump from destroying their party; the Independents, who could vote Democrat; and the mainstream Democrats; all of whom combined, could defeat Mr. Trump in 2020.

Last edited by Spoons; 05-22-2019 at 02:17 AM.
  #168  
Old 05-22-2019, 02:53 AM
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I would think that if whatever God his supporters believe in were to appear and smite him during one of his rallies, that might cause several to at least raise an eyebrow. A few minutes would pass until they resumed chanting, "Lock her up!"
  #169  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:29 AM
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If Obama had been a bullshit spewing, pathologically lying, solely self-serving, mentally lazy, and contemptibly vile, two-bit fraud, you might have a point. In such a case, I would have joined the Republicans in calling for impeachment.

But that wasn’t the case, so this false equivalency doesn't fly. This isn’t about policy—or rather, the policy is secondary here.
I’m not sure that it is.

Take the very hypothetical that just now bumped this thread for fresh discussion: say we get evidence that Trump — who, near as I can tell, has been changing the judicial landscape on abortion — paid for several abortions. What does that mean, if you’re against abortion and voted for him instead of Hillary Clinton?

I don’t think you say, “oh, gosh, I voted for the wrong one; after all, abortion is so big a deal to me that I’d rather she was nominating judges!” Because, well, as a mere policy question that’d make no sense; you either recoil from what he’s done and vote for one set of sweeping legal ramifications, or you shrug at what he’s done while you vote for the other set of sweeping legal ramifications — and, to the extent that we’re talking about policy in terms of Sweeping Legal Ramifications, you say something about how policy isn’t secondary here as you vote accordingly, right?

And, likewise: say the 2020 debates pit Trump against a Democrat who (a) neither personally got, nor paid for, any abortions; and who (b) declares, loudly and often and honestly, that they’ll apply a Roe litmus test on judges while making a big deal about keeping abortion legal and well-funded and thus and such. If abortion is your priority, do you scorn Trump’s personal history to vote for that Democrat? Or do you shrug at Trump’s personal history and say, “I think he’ll be better on abortion policy, so why switch to supporting someone I think will be worse on abortion policy? Aren’t the big-picture ramifications more important, rather than being secondary?”
  #170  
Old 05-22-2019, 07:08 AM
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Answering the OP: Trump's base would abandon him if he were to rescind income tax exemptions for churches, raise capital gains and estate taxes to fund reparations for descendants of former slaves while simultaneously announcing amnesty for any undocumented immigrants who present themselves to ICE during the remainder of his term. He wouldn't even have to touch gun control.
  #171  
Old 05-22-2019, 07:25 AM
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There's nothing worse or more dangerous than a simple/foolish person who thinks he knows something. The answer to the OP is "nothing".
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  #172  
Old 05-22-2019, 02:36 PM
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. . . you either recoil from what he’s done and vote for one set of sweeping legal ramifications, or you shrug at what he’s done while you vote for the other set of sweeping legal ramifications — and, to the extent that we’re talking about policy in terms of Sweeping Legal Ramifications, you say something about how policy isn’t secondary here as you vote accordingly, right?
No. You just support another candidate. (Anti-abortion candidates are a dime a dozen.)
  #173  
Old 05-22-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
Something I read today made me want to ask this question, so I hunted down this old thread to ask it:

Would thump's evangelical supporters turn on him/dump him if positive proof came to light that he had paid for several abortions for his various lady friends?

By "positive proof" I don't mean articles in WaPo or the New York Times (i.e. fake news), but video testimony from doctors, nurses, the women themselves, invoices, canceled checks, credit card receipts, etc. Yes, people would question the validity of the evidence, but for the sake of argument, let's say that the evidence is watertight and the evangelicals actually DO believe it.

My question is, would that certain knowledge of his paying for abortions, cause them to turn against him, or would they make excuses, consider him excused from their beliefs, say stuff (again) like "God uses evil men to accomplish His own ends," etc.?

Would this be a case of "shooting someone on 5th Ave" and it would be okay with them?

Most likely Trump will simply deny the whole thing and assume that his flock will believe him over the lying media, but even if somehow he was forced to acknowledge this I doubt that it would change anything in a significant way.

It is already public knowledge for those who care to see it that prior to 2016 Trump was pro-choice. It is also clear for those who care to see it that Trump is a walking disaster area as for as matching the Christian ethical ideal. But the christian right has come to accept this, with claims that he is king Cyrus.

At worst all he would have to do was say that these actions were in the past but now he's seen the light as evidenced by his Supreme Court picks.
  #174  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:00 PM
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Most likely Trump will simply deny the whole thing and assume that his flock will believe him over the lying media, but even if somehow he was forced to acknowledge this I doubt that it would change anything in a significant way.


Even if they believed it, they'd still support him. After all, we already have examples of religious and/or conservative leaders who were caught red-handed engaging in activities they publicly denounced as immoral, who were completely forgiven by their supporters.

Hell, they even have a catch phrase for it: "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven". This is already built in to their system.
  #175  
Old 05-22-2019, 07:32 PM
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Hell, they even have a catch phrase for it: "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven". This is already built in to their system.
Except Christian's must ask for forgiveness, something Trump admits he has never done
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  #176  
Old 05-22-2019, 07:44 PM
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They don't have a watercooler here; it's a kool-aid dispenser.

Tariffs Trim a Factory’s Profit, but Loyalty to Trump Endures
https://nyti.ms/2OcGMFM


<shrug>
But don't we dare call them stupid.
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  #177  
Old 05-22-2019, 11:57 PM
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Just check out the comments on the Fox News and Breitbart sites. At least 30% of the people who post there would chop off their own dicks if it would make “librul heads essplode.”
Dear Fox and Breitbart fans: I hereby promise to make my head essplode if you chop off your dicks.
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  #178  
Old 05-23-2019, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
Something I read today made me want to ask this question, so I hunted down this old thread to ask it:

Would thump's evangelical supporters turn on him/dump him if positive proof came to light that he had paid for several abortions for his various lady friends?
They wouldn't care. The only purpose of the so-called anti-abortion movement is abusing women, and he has plenty of other ways to abuse those women. At most they'll just assume he increased the frequency of their rapes & beatings to compensate.

Such people are always quite willing to coerce women they consider their property into abortions when a pregnancy is inconvenient to them. Principle has nothing to do with anything they do, only selfishness and malice.

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We already had a lot of public people from Day 1 of his Presidency who claimed they would never turn on Obama no matter what he did, which is basically what Trump's base said once he got elected as well.
That's not true at all; plenty of people turned on him literally on Day One, when he had a homophobic preacher administer his oath of office.
  #179  
Old 05-23-2019, 07:45 AM
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Something I read today made me want to ask this question, so I hunted down this old thread to ask it:

Would thump's evangelical supporters turn on him/dump him if positive proof came to light that he had paid for several abortions for his various lady friends?
They would just invoke the Cyrus the Great ploy again.

Look, they already know that Trump is an immoral, lying, jerk. He's a "non-believer" in practice? So was Cyrus. But Cyrus was nice to the Jews, so that makes him a good person. Ergo, Trump is a good person.

(Hold on a second, my brain is spinning just writing that down. No, don't try to follow its logic. There isn't any.)
  #180  
Old 05-23-2019, 07:54 AM
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Sorry for the X-Post with the Clusterfuck thread, but this also should be said here:

Quote:
Again, arguments about "Trump's base" are completely missing the point as the "base" is literally defined as people who still support Trump:

On Monday, I support Trump. I'm part of his "base".

Tuesday, something happens. Whatever, doesn't matter. I no longer support him.

Wednesday, Asahi comes to the SDMB and says "We can't do shit as long as his base supports him." I come back with "I supported him Monday, but now I don't."

Question: Am I part of the base on Wednesday?

Question: If so, is this not indicative of his base shrinking?

Question: If not, isn't arguments appealing to/about "the base" literally self-defeating?
  #181  
Old 05-24-2019, 02:38 AM
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It would be very easy, all he has to do is stop doing what they want him to do. He's keeping more of his campaign promises than any president in living memory. He has brought north Korea to the table by projecting strength rather than accommodation, leading to an end of thar war after 60 years. A feat which the south Korean president has said deserves a Nobel Peace prize. He's been tough on securing the border rather than just talking about it.
Conservative voters have grown tired of politicians who pay lip service to their issues and then giving Democrats anything they want. That's what the tea party was all about, it wasn't about Obama or Democrats it was about electing conservatives to offices that had been held by RINOS who never actually did what they wanted them to do.
So in conclusion all trump has to do to lose support is start acting like a Washington mainstream politician.
no the Korean war has not "ended" until there is something definitive in writing
  #182  
Old 05-24-2019, 02:59 AM
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Sorry for the X-Post with the Clusterfuck thread, but this also should be said here:
I don't know if that is a joke or not, but I believe the unmoving base is evidenced by poll numbers, not individual breaking points. So if we see a steady support of 42% regardless of what Trump does or what crazy shit is reported about him, that's what people are referring to as his base. Not some dude whose straw that broke the camel's back is that Trump did not sit cross-legged at a sumo tournament and is now wondering if he is part of Trump's base.
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