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Old 02-04-2020, 09:08 PM
SenorBeef is offline
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Let's keep sneering at "Bernie bros", it worked so well last time.


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Originally Posted by John_Stamos'_Left_Ear View Post
Oh look, a Bernie Bro spreading bullshit conspiracy theories that are literally based in fiction.
Was it worth it? Getting Trump as president for the last 4 years so that you could sneer at some people who wanted a different candidate than you? It must've been, because here you are doing the exact same thing 4 years later.

I mean, who would want all these energized young voters to come to the polls and support your party? That's certainly not worth slowing down a little bit on being a condescending prick.

You guys went so fucking hard on this bullshit "Bernie Bro" smear that you tried your best to alienate the next generation of people who were favorable to you. Do you think that was a good strategy? Do you think that worked positively for you in the election? Do you think that's going to help this time?

Now - I'm not one of those kids that's so energized, to be clear. Because not everyone who wants a candidate that's left of a moderate republican all has some collective "Bernie Bro" mindset. I can almost certainly guarantee that I'm more well informed than you are on these political issues, and yet you're dripping with so much hatred and condescension and assumptions about me, reducing me only to a "Bernie Bro" as if supporting the most sincere, honest, and consistent politician in the last 50 years in American politics somehow makes me a simplistic clone who is only following some slogan or joined some cult.

Bernie's coalition is actually much broader than the young "Bernie Bros" you try to smear, because we haven't had an actual leftist candidate in the public eye in this country for over 40 years.

You corporate dick sucking third way right wing democrats are doing your absolute best to make sure no one who isn't already on your side doesn't join it. I voted for Hillary and I didn't like it, in no small part because you assholes forced me into the choice and then sneered and mocked me, asking me what choice I had, gleeful that you broke the spirit of someone who was trying to use their vote to do good. But I have no doubt that you alienated a lot of people with these tactics who didn't end up voting against Trump, and here you are, learning absolutely nothing, ready to do it all over again.

Additionally, I'm actually quite intimately familiar with the conspiracy mindset. I've actually spent quite a bit of time within the skeptical movement and in general learning all sorts of things about all sorts of bullshit. Believing there to be one conspiracy or ulterior motives behind an event doesn't make you a "conspiracy theorist" - the conspiratorial mindset is a belief system and value system that sees a conspiracy in everything, and weaves all evidence, including disconfirming evidence, to reinforce their idea of the conspiracy. There are actual conspiracies - like the conspiracy for the Republicans to basically commit a slow fascist coup right under our noses. I'm not engaging in conspiratorial thinking to think that the democratic party and the rich they serve are doing what they can to fight against Bernie - there's a clear history of it.

The democratic party does not like Bernie because they work for the rich almost as much as the Republicans do, they're just a little more subtle about it. They allowed Bernie to run within the party apparatus because they thought he could bring in some enthusiasm and voters and then be conveniently discarded. The rich own almost all of our media, and there's no doubt they're engaging in a Bernie Blackout to stifle any positive news about Bernie. I read and listen to quite a lot of news, and it's remarkable how often I'll see a post about a huge rally for Bernie that would've been a top story for any other candidate simply not get mentioned at all - people have to post their own cell phone videos of the event.

The democrats has an organic, wildly popular movement to fight against the rise of right wing populism, and they're deliberately doing everything they can to suppress it because they're not actually progressive in their agenda, they serve the rich and corporations first and foremost, and someone who wants to move the country actually leftward is a thread to them. It very well may have gotten us Trump the first time, and you guys have apparently learned absolutely nothing and rush in to insult and condescend and alienate that entire movement yet again.

You basically tried to dare me not to vote for Hillary by reducing my sense that voting matters after the scales were weighted in the 2016 primary, sneering, laughing at me, asking me what was I going to do - not vote against Trump? Now grow up and vote for Hillary like a good little Bernie Bro. And it made voting against way, way harder than it should've been. It shouldn't be a bitter pill to vote against pure evil. But you assholes are working so hard to alienate people that it is.

So when the 2020 primary is rigged to force Biden or Buttigieg on me, am I supposed to just gladly suck it up again? Are you going to mock me again and say "what are you gonna do, vote for Trump? Shut up, take your medicine, act like an adult and vote for the corporate dick sucker" sure will make me feel good about doing this the second time. And after millions of people did that 4 years ago, and it didn't even work - how do you think we feel about it now?

We're losing our fucking country to corruption and fascism, and you're working hard against your own natural allies just so you can feel a little smug about "Bernie Bros". This is how you snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. This is how you alienate an entire generation of youth who are setting records with huge crowd sizes and numbers of small donors who desperately want to be involved in the political process. You beat it out of them, tell them they're stupid for ever having wanted to get involved or having an opinion different from yours, and then bitch because the younger generation doesn't get out and vote. Fuck off with your toxic, divisive, condescending, counter-productive, Trump-helping bullshit.
  #2  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:15 PM
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Fuck off with your toxic, divisive, condescending, counter-productive, Trump-helping bullshit.
Yes, we have to be careful to respect different voices in the party.



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You corporate dick sucking third way right wing democrats
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:22 PM
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Now, to address another issue, I don't think that Bernie is The One and Only Messiah or anything like that. I like Elizabeth Warren. I think she's got a lot of good ideas, is well-intentioned, and would probably make a good president. If it turns out that she organically appears to garner the most support in the nomination, I have no problem with voting for her. I don't have a cult-like devotion to Bernie. He's certainly not perfect.

So why would I prefer Bernie?

I voted for Obama twice, gladly, and think that he was a good man and a pretty good president given the situation he was facing. But when he got in power, he thought that if he became part of the system, and didn't rock the boat too much, he would be more successful. His presidency provided steady guidance in some rough times, restored America's standing in the world, gave you a chance to feel proud of your government, but ultimately he was disappointing because he was not able to enact transformational change, especially on the issue of how the rich are accruing and wielding greater power, which is the greatest threat to our democracy and our country at this time.

I fear that Elizabeth Warren would also take the path of trying to become part of the system and gently guide it in the right direction. I don't think such an approach is enough to get this country back on track. Almost all of our media is owned by a handful of corporations. They're moving the Overton window as they choose, using near-Orwellian tactics, just with a lot more polish and subtlety, to control the overton window, our national discussion, and steer us away from an actual democracy into a managed democracy. Republicans are thumbing their nose at the very concept of accountability and rule of law. Shit is getting off the tracks, fast.

We need someone who can tell us how it is. Call out the real problems in this country. Even if he's powerless because congress is deadset against him, I have no doubt that Sanders would use the bully pulpit to get America back on track about what the real battle is, and what's going on with our country. Here's a guy who was arrested for segregation, and far more ballsy, invited a gay pride rally to his town when he was mayor in 1986. Do you remember what gay rights were like in 1986, and how even relatively liberal members of society felt about that issue then? That is pure principle. There is nothing politically expedient about that. This is a guy that has a 50 year track record in public service that is completely sincere. He always speaks his mind and stands up for what he believes is right regardless of any political pressures on him. This is a guy who is the closest thing we have in our public sphere to being uncorruptable.

And we need that, right now. We need to take back control of the narrative from our corporate-owned media steering us around by the nose, telling us what the issues and problems of the day are. We need a president who will get in there and tell us what the real problems we face are, regardless of the political expediency or the cost. Because waking this country up to the fact that we're most of the way down the path to neo-fuedalism is the only shot we have to face it and fight it.

Warren will do some good on that front. Bernie will knock it out of the park.
  #4  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:30 PM
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I think Pete would be pretty good too. Agree?
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
Yes, we have to be careful to respect different voices in the party.
That's a fair enough criticism. To be fair, I would not and do not say things like that to people who simply want to vote for a non-Bernie candidate. My rant is directed specifically at people who have a disdain for the actual progressive/leftist wing of the democratic party, who treat us like ignorant children for wanting a little bit of what makes every other rich country in the world happier than we are. I realize this seems like a subtle distinction, but the difference is that I wouldn't see someone's support for Buttigieg and come in and try to insult him, whereas on this board, indicating support for Bernie usually gets such a result.

But it's true, I do think third way democrats have turned this country into a managed democracy. You get a choice between pro-rich, pro-status quo, pro-business, mostly sane democrats and pro-rich, pro-business, looney toons Republicans. There's no option for "make the country better the average person" anymore. Third way democrats killed the actual leftist movement this country had 50 years ago. They've changed the issues we argue over from the quality of life for the average person to actively helping the rich get richer on the backs of everyone else while they keep us squabbling over identity politics and social issues.

It is strange to me how people can get passionate about that. What is there to passionately support in neoliberalism and third way democrats? So then, what do you think the motivation of people who support corporatist democrats is at trying to insult progressives/leftists?
  #6  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:31 PM
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U mad, Bernie Bro?
  #7  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
I think Pete would be pretty good too. Agree?
I'm leaning towards no. I think he's a smart guy, and I think he's "presidential" - I listen to him and I think "I wouldn't be embarassed for this guy to be my president" - but his politics are sort of suspiciously generic and undefined. Given that he's become a favorite of the DNC, I suspect they view him as a way to continue third way corporatist policies with more appeal to young people than Biden. I've not seen him speak or take policy positions that suggest that he's significantly left of, say, a 1980s republican. To me, it seems like he's the "well if we can't convince young people to vote for Biden, maybe they'll vote for Buttigieg"

But I see no evidence that he'll be a transformative figure within the direction of the democratic party. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.
  #8  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:49 PM
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Self-admitted Bernie supporters who vow to stay home if he doesn't get the nomination are the ones with the problem.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:53 PM
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Do you think telling them "aw, your messiah lost, you little piece of shit. I know you got your hopes up that someone different could get in there, but now it's time to grow up and take your medicine and vote for a real shit sandwich. It was cute when you thought you had a choice or when you thought you could vote for someone you liked, but now it's time for your dumb little bernie bro self to do what we tell you" is something that makes them more or less likely to vote for the democratic candidate? Because there were dozens of people like that in 2016 that I encountered, basically daring me not to vote for Hillary.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:59 PM
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vote for a real shit sandwich.
That's how we got Trump & Pence!

Any Functioning Adult 2020!
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:00 PM
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So, it’s the non-Bernie-Bro Democrats who made the Bros not vote? And it’s their fault, not the non-voting Bros, that Trump won? I’m asking because holy smokes walls of text that I’ll be fucked to read, but the logic does intrigue me.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:05 PM
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What do you get if you add thirty IQ points to the average trump supporter without changing their personality at all? The average Sanders supporter.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:08 PM
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All of the people spamming dumb memes attacking other Democratic candidates seem to be Bernie supporters. It isn't a good look.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by E-DUB View Post
What do you get if you add thirty IQ points to the average trump supporter without changing their personality at all? The average Sanders supporter.
Substantiate this.

Sanders supporters are xenophobic? Homophobic? Worship the rich? Believe a pathological liar? Support a guy who was insincere at every step in his life?

This is fucking stupid and makes no sense at all.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Substantiate this.

Sanders supporters are xenophobic? Homophobic? Worship the rich? Believe a pathological liar? Support a guy who was insincere at every step in his life?

This is fucking stupid and makes no sense at all.
Bernie Bros and Trumpers obviously inhabit different political views. But their temperament is cut from the same cloth. The notion that their guy is a savior, almost beyond reproach, that things in America are radically wrong and need radical solutions, that there exists a widespread conspiracy from The Establishment to keep them and their guy down, that the rest of society just "can't handle the truth," and that you are either with them or against them.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:18 PM
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Anyone whose fee fees are hurt so much that they say "Oh yeah, now I'll let Trump win, that'll show you" is obviously unreasonable to begin with, so yeah, I'm not gonna bother trying to reason with them.

Also, once you sprout discredited conspiracy theories and scream how things are rigged, you're pretty much beyond reason.

Fuck Bernie.
  #17  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by John_Stamos'_Left_Ear View Post
Anyone whose fee fees are hurt so much that they say "Oh yeah, now I'll let Trump win, that'll show you" is obviously unreasonable to begin with, so yeah, I'm not gonna bother trying to reason with them.
I did not do that. I explicitly stated that I voted for Hillary. However, I said that your behavior was to try to goad me into basically not doing so.

Is politics really what you want to do gatekeeping about? "Oh, so you might not vote for our candidate just because we're completely shitty and dismiss you? Well we don't want your vote anyway!"

Well.... Trump. Good work.

Quote:
Also, once you sprout discredited conspiracy theories and scream how things are rigged, you're pretty much beyond reason.

Fuck Bernie.
Explain this. Do you want more of those?
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:36 PM
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Iowa is looking good for Bernie or Buttigieg, not Biden.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:40 PM
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Was it worth it? Getting Trump as president for the last 4 years so that you could sneer at some people who wanted a different candidate than you? It must've been, because here you are doing the exact same thing 4 years later.

I mean, who would want all these energized young voters to come to the polls and support your party? That's certainly not worth slowing down a little bit on being a condescending prick.

You guys went so fucking hard on this bullshit "Bernie Bro" smear that you tried your best to alienate the next generation of people who were favorable to you. Do you think that was a good strategy? Do you think that worked positively for you in the election? Do you think that's going to help this time?

Now - I'm not one of those kids that's so energized, to be clear. Because not everyone who wants a candidate that's left of a moderate republican all has some collective "Bernie Bro" mindset. I can almost certainly guarantee that I'm more well informed than you are on these political issues, and yet you're dripping with so much hatred and condescension and assumptions about me, reducing me only to a "Bernie Bro" as if supporting the most sincere, honest, and consistent politician in the last 50 years in American politics somehow makes me a simplistic clone who is only following some slogan or joined some cult.

Bernie's coalition is actually much broader than the young "Bernie Bros" you try to smear, because we haven't had an actual leftist candidate in the public eye in this country for over 40 years.

You corporate dick sucking third way right wing democrats are doing your absolute best to make sure no one who isn't already on your side doesn't join it. I voted for Hillary and I didn't like it, in no small part because you assholes forced me into the choice and then sneered and mocked me, asking me what choice I had, gleeful that you broke the spirit of someone who was trying to use their vote to do good. But I have no doubt that you alienated a lot of people with these tactics who didn't end up voting against Trump, and here you are, learning absolutely nothing, ready to do it all over again.

Additionally, I'm actually quite intimately familiar with the conspiracy mindset. I've actually spent quite a bit of time within the skeptical movement and in general learning all sorts of things about all sorts of bullshit. Believing there to be one conspiracy or ulterior motives behind an event doesn't make you a "conspiracy theorist" - the conspiratorial mindset is a belief system and value system that sees a conspiracy in everything, and weaves all evidence, including disconfirming evidence, to reinforce their idea of the conspiracy. There are actual conspiracies - like the conspiracy for the Republicans to basically commit a slow fascist coup right under our noses. I'm not engaging in conspiratorial thinking to think that the democratic party and the rich they serve are doing what they can to fight against Bernie - there's a clear history of it.

The democratic party does not like Bernie because they work for the rich almost as much as the Republicans do, they're just a little more subtle about it. They allowed Bernie to run within the party apparatus because they thought he could bring in some enthusiasm and voters and then be conveniently discarded. The rich own almost all of our media, and there's no doubt they're engaging in a Bernie Blackout to stifle any positive news about Bernie. I read and listen to quite a lot of news, and it's remarkable how often I'll see a post about a huge rally for Bernie that would've been a top story for any other candidate simply not get mentioned at all - people have to post their own cell phone videos of the event.

The democrats has an organic, wildly popular movement to fight against the rise of right wing populism, and they're deliberately doing everything they can to suppress it because they're not actually progressive in their agenda, they serve the rich and corporations first and foremost, and someone who wants to move the country actually leftward is a thread to them. It very well may have gotten us Trump the first time, and you guys have apparently learned absolutely nothing and rush in to insult and condescend and alienate that entire movement yet again.

You basically tried to dare me not to vote for Hillary by reducing my sense that voting matters after the scales were weighted in the 2016 primary, sneering, laughing at me, asking me what was I going to do - not vote against Trump? Now grow up and vote for Hillary like a good little Bernie Bro. And it made voting against way, way harder than it should've been. It shouldn't be a bitter pill to vote against pure evil. But you assholes are working so hard to alienate people that it is.

So when the 2020 primary is rigged to force Biden or Buttigieg on me, am I supposed to just gladly suck it up again? Are you going to mock me again and say "what are you gonna do, vote for Trump? Shut up, take your medicine, act like an adult and vote for the corporate dick sucker" sure will make me feel good about doing this the second time. And after millions of people did that 4 years ago, and it didn't even work - how do you think we feel about it now?

We're losing our fucking country to corruption and fascism, and you're working hard against your own natural allies just so you can feel a little smug about "Bernie Bros". This is how you snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. This is how you alienate an entire generation of youth who are setting records with huge crowd sizes and numbers of small donors who desperately want to be involved in the political process. You beat it out of them, tell them they're stupid for ever having wanted to get involved or having an opinion different from yours, and then bitch because the younger generation doesn't get out and vote. Fuck off with your toxic, divisive, condescending, counter-productive, Trump-helping bullshit.


Moderate Republican is a THING?
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:53 PM
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You know what also worked really well last time? Bernie Bros sneering at everyone else.

I see that's happening again this time, too.
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Was it worth it?
Simple question: do you have any evidence that the issues last night were at all designed to hurt Sanders? If not, why the fuck are you whining that someone pointed out that your implication was illogical and unrealistic?

If you're going to go straight to conspiracy theories whenever something goes wrong, don't be surprised when others call you on your ignorant shit. If you're going to respond with a paragraphs-long rant because someone called you on your idiocy, don't be surprised when people tune you out. When you hypocritically include vast amounts of whinging and name-calling in the aforementioned rant, just shut the hell up and let the adults talk.

That's not an attack on "Bernie Bros", that's on YOU. Keep sneering at literally everyone that doesn't agree with you, and watch Sanders lose a fairly conservative state to a gay man.
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:55 PM
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We have to deal with two cults at once. Appease the Bernie cult or the Orange Anus gets re-elected. Talk about shit sandwiches.

Hey Senor Pig? Go fuck yourself.
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:03 AM
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Simple question: do you have any evidence that the issues last night were at all designed to hurt Sanders?
And he's still only 2% behind with 71% of the results in.
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:08 AM
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I'm so glad that some people will instead of happily supporting whatever candidate the Democratic Party nominates they'll, seemingly, happily allow Donald Fuckin' Trump another four years in the White House because the Democratic candidate isn't 'left' enough!

Might want to look at how, historically, allowing the worst guy to gain power because then the people will cast off their chains and the revolution will come has worked out.
Quote:
This is how it is, Marat Bernie. This is how they see your revolution.

They have toothache, so their teeth should be pulled.
Their soup's burnt. They shout for better soup.
A woman finds her husband too short, she wants a taller one.
A man finds his wife too skinny, he wants a plumper one.
One man's shoes pinch, but his neighbor's shoes fit comfortably.
A poet runs out of poetry and desperately gropes for new images.
For hours an angler casts his line. Why aren't the fish biting?

And so they join your revolution ... thinking your revolution will give them everything.
A fish, a poem, a new pair of shoes, a new wife, a new husband, and the best soup in the world.

So they storm all the citadels and there they are, and everything is just the same.
No fish biting, verses botched, shoes pinching, a worn and stinking partner in bed, and the soup burnt.

And all that heroism which drove us down to the sewers. We can talk about it to our grandchildren...if we have any grandchildren.
CMC fnord!
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:29 AM
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I like those Doobie Bros.
  #26  
Old 02-05-2020, 12:49 AM
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Anyone whose fee fees are hurt so much that they say "Oh yeah, now I'll let Trump win, that'll show you" is obviously unreasonable to begin with, so yeah, I'm not gonna bother trying to reason with them.

Also, once you sprout discredited conspiracy theories and scream how things are rigged, you're pretty much beyond reason.

Fuck Bernie.
Fuck you, fuck your mother, and fuck the horses you both rode in on, you festering ball of fuck. Enjoy your suspension from P & E, I know everyone else will.
  #27  
Old 02-05-2020, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Isosleepy View Post
So, it’s the non-Bernie-Bro Democrats who made the Bros not vote? And it’s their fault, not the non-voting Bros, that Trump won? I’m asking because holy smokes walls of text that I’ll be fucked to read, but the logic does intrigue me.
Here's the TLDR version of this thread for you.

Senor Beef: Like the vast majority of Sanders supporters, I voted for Hillary, I will vote for whoever the Democrats nominate this November, and I would appreciate not being insulted and personally attacked whenever I express an opinion.

A Bunch of Assholes: Oh, so you didn't vote for Hillary and you won't vote Democratic this fall unless Bernie is the nominee, huh? Well, fuck you, you brainwashed cultist!
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Thing Fish View Post
Here's the TLDR version of this thread for you.

Senor Beef: Like the vast majority of Sanders supporters, I voted for Hillary, I will vote for whoever the Democrats nominate this November, and I would appreciate not being insulted and personally attacked whenever I express an opinion.

A Bunch of Assholes: Oh, so you didn't vote for Hillary and you won't vote Democratic this fall unless Bernie is the nominee, huh? Well, fuck you, you brainwashed cultist!
You probably should have actually ready part of the thread before trying to TL;DR.

I guess you missed where he called everyone condescending pricks, assholes, and corporate dick sucking third way right wing democrats.

Fuck that noise, and fuck you for blatantly defending someone being an asshole because he got called on his moronic batshit conspiracy theory. Feel free to rant like a little twat like the OP because "name calling".

Asshat.
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:37 AM
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Agreed, though that was only one Bernie supporter. But yes, there are many others. And this is just how Trump won. He won because so many Americans prefer to sit on their fat asses watching "reality" TV -- often featuring stars like Donald J. Trump -- rather than go out and vote. The word we're looking for here is "apathy".

The last federal election we had here in Canada, I wasn't feeling well, I knew my vote would be wasted because this is a very conservative area, I was no longer that excited about Trudeau, so I decided to stay home. And then I couldn't. I just couldn't do it. Voting is a civic duty and critical to democracy. So I went and voted. And it may have done something, for all I know. Sure, the expected Conservative candidate won in this riding, but the low number of popular votes for the Conservative leader and relatively poor national performance led to his resignation as party leader.

Last edited by wolfpup; 02-05-2020 at 01:39 AM.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Chisquirrel View Post
You probably should have actually ready part of the thread before trying to TL;DR.

I guess you missed where he called everyone condescending pricks, assholes, and corporate dick sucking third way right wing democrats.

Fuck that noise, and fuck you for blatantly defending someone being an asshole because he got called on his moronic batshit conspiracy theory. Feel free to rant like a little twat like the OP because "name calling".

Asshat.
Fuck you too, you stupid piece of shit. I hope you get cancer and die a slow, horrible death, but not before witnessing the slow, horrible deaths of everyone you love. Also, anal rape by a tribe of rabid baboons should be involved in some fashion.

That having been dealt with...I agree that Beef’s name-calling wasn’t constructive and should have been omitted.

To your credit, you actually seem to have been responding to whatever beef Beef was having with Ear in some other thread. But half a dozen people just jumped into the thread to insult “Bernie Bros” in ways that didn’t address the OP at all.
  #31  
Old 02-05-2020, 02:12 AM
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Over here we have a phrase for people like the OP.

We'd say they are "Up their own hole".

I'm not sure if it translates, but to me it fits.
  #32  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:51 AM
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I won't sneer at anyone merely for expressing support for Bernie Sanders. Hell, my parents like Bernie (although they are also concerned about his age--he's a few years older than they are, and they sure as fuck don't have the energy to be President of the United States). There have been times when I've supported Bernie my own self.

But anyone who even hints at a "if the nominee isn't Bernie Sanders, I won't vote at all!" attitude can go fuck themselves.

Also, anyone who is supporting Biden or Buttigieg or Bloomberg who even hints at a "if the nominee IS Bernie Sanders, I won't vote at all!" attitude can go fuck themselves as well.

Hell, I would have voted for Marianne fucking Williamson.

My state doesn't vote in the Democratic primaries until three weeks after "Super Tuesday" so I'm probably personally just stuck with whoever the rest of y'all decide on. (Granted, I still have no real idea who I'd pick even if I had any actual choice.)
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  #33  
Old 02-05-2020, 05:55 AM
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Fuck Bernie, and fuck his "I'm going to be a Democrat as long as I get to use them to be elected President" attitude.

Literally the only thing that would coax me into voting for his ass is the ability to say I voted against Trump.
  #34  
Old 02-05-2020, 07:53 AM
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I'll say one nice thing about Bernie supporters: they are awfully optimistic. They do sincerely believe that given a head-to-head race that pits a racist against a socialist, America will reject the racist. Yessir, very optimistic indeed.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:59 AM
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I hope it's a fair contest for the nomination and that if Bernie comes out on top, we all get behind him and rid the land of the Orange Menace. But generally the only Dems I see threatening to take their ball and go home if they don't win are the Bernie Bros. They're not instilling the rest of us with confidence when they do things like that.

In fairness, Bernie's policy proposals make a lot of Democrats nervous. But we're a big tent and we're moving inexorably leftward. We should be able to settle for that. For now. Donald Trump has to go. Everything else is second on the list.

Also, fuck Shodan.
  #36  
Old 02-05-2020, 08:05 AM
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I'll say one nice thing about Bernie supporters: they are awfully optimistic. They do sincerely believe that given a head-to-head race that pits a racist against a socialist, America will reject the racist. Yessir, very optimistic indeed.
Yeah, this. I wouldn’t mind terribly if Bernie won the election. I don’t think he’d be very effective, but I can easily live with that. My big concern is he can’t win. I wish I was wrong about that, but the American people haven’t inspired me lately
  #37  
Old 02-05-2020, 08:18 AM
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Agreed, though that was only one Bernie supporter. But yes, there are many others. And this is just how Trump won. He won because so many Americans prefer to sit on their fat asses watching "reality" TV -- often featuring stars like Donald J. Trump -- rather than go out and vote. The word we're looking for here is "apathy".
This is the diametral opposite of apathy. It's having strong convictions and refusing to compromise on them. It may not make sense in a purely political calculus sense, but that's kind of the point : "fuck political calculus, do what's right or I'll see you in hell". You can call that many things but "apathy" ain't it, chief.
  #38  
Old 02-05-2020, 08:22 AM
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Do you think telling them "aw, your messiah lost, you little piece of shit. I know you got your hopes up that someone different could get in there, but now it's time to grow up and take your medicine and vote for a real shit sandwich. It was cute when you thought you had a choice or when you thought you could vote for someone you liked, but now it's time for your dumb little bernie bro self to do what we tell you" is something that makes them more or less likely to vote for the democratic candidate? Because there were dozens of people like that in 2016 that I encountered, basically daring me not to vote for Hillary.
Yes. That is EXACTLY the kind of thing Bernie Bros need to hear over and over again until the petulant little cunts grow the fuck up and learn that voting for someone they don't worship but who is better than the current orange assclown, is the adult thing to do. And nobody fucking dared you not to vote for Hillary, you fucking child. She was not the ideal candidate but she wasn't Trump and every adult in the fucking room knew that. Except maybe you and your bros. Grow the fuck up. Cunts.
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  #39  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:05 AM
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Support whoever you want in the primary. But when the nominee is announced everyone needs to get behind this person 100% no matter who it is. It's that simple.
  #40  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:13 AM
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Yes. That is EXACTLY the kind of thing Bernie Bros need to hear over and over again until the petulant little cunts grow the fuck up and learn that voting for someone they don't worship but who is better than the current orange assclown, is the adult thing to do. And nobody fucking dared you not to vote for Hillary, you fucking child. She was not the ideal candidate but she wasn't Trump and every adult in the fucking room knew that. Except maybe you and your bros. Grow the fuck up. Cunts.
Why do you have such hate and disdain for a youth movement more involved in politics than anything we’ve seen since the 1960s? Why do you want to take a whole generation of very enthusiastic, very active young people and insult them, demoralize them, alienate them, and try to crush their enthusiasm?

Because you’re gatekeeping the Overton window in this country? Because you want the “liberal democrats” to stay a moderate right party? Because they have enthusiasm for an individual you don’t like? Because they aren’t as jaded as you are about politics, convinced that nothing that actually makes things better for people can be done?

Look at you. You’re talking about a sizable politically active movement and doing your best to brow beat them and telling them to fuck off instead of trying to integrate them into your party. How does that make the country a better place? How does that even advance your own political agenda?

This is one of the reasons the democrats always lose. Here you have your next generation of political support, far more politically active and more likely to vote than kids in previous generations, and you’d rather insult them and alienate them and tell them to go fuck themselves than to try to integrate them into your party.

The most sickening part of it is that they are better people than you are. They want to enact real systemic change to help people. You want the same oligarchical corporate boot licking we’ve had for decades as the average person gets more and more underwater. And somehow you think you have the position of moral superiority.

I can’t believe that even after 4 years of Trump, you are still doing your best to discourage people from joining your coalition and trying to beat the enthusiasm out of them. It’s insanely stupid and toxic.

Why? Why are you doing this? Why are you making it as hard as possible to be on the same side as you?
  #41  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:21 AM
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Because this isn't all about young people and their feelings. It's about winning. And even if young people feel really really really strongly about something, that doesn't mean they are backing the right horse. I have a right to my opinion as well, and no amount of 20-somethings holding their breath and turning blue will take away my right to back a better candidate.
  #42  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Why do you have such hate and disdain for a youth movement more involved in politics than anything we’ve seen since the 1960s? Why do you want to take a whole generation of very enthusiastic, very active young people and insult them, demoralize them, alienate them, and try to crush their enthusiasm?

Because you’re gatekeeping the Overton window in this country? Because you want the “liberal democrats” to stay a moderate right party? Because they have enthusiasm for an individual you don’t like? Because they aren’t as jaded as you are about politics, convinced that nothing that actually makes things better for people can be done?
{...}
Because Pigasus was never a viable candidate.

CMC fnord!
  #43  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:40 AM
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Because this isn't all about young people and their feelings. It's about winning. And even if young people feel really really really strongly about something, that doesn't mean they are backing the right horse. I have a right to my opinion as well, and no amount of 20-somethings holding their breath and turning blue will take away my right to back a better candidate.
Right, it's about winning. Which means we have to get more voters--and the pool that votes the least are young people. So the best course of action is to get them on board. And the one way you don't do that is by making fun of them and belittling them.

You are mixing up supporting your candidate with attacking those who support someone else. This thread is about those who go after "Bernie Bros" as the enemy, rather than seeing them as people on the same side who disagree. It's about people who are alienating the very people we're trying to get to vote.

I'm not a Sanders supporter, either. I've said why I don't like him. But you won't see me condemning people for supporting him, because that FUCKING STUPID. Yes, even if they, in their young passions, seem a bit insulting. So the fuck what!?! I'm not the center of the world, and I don't give a shit if something someone says makes me feel a little insulted.

It's more important to get more young people on board than it is for me to worry about when a Bernie supporter might make me mad. I'll instead try to find agreement with them, because they are on my side. I'll point out the 95% of where we agree, rather than focus on the 5% where we don't.

You may say this is unfair--that I care about their feelings but not yours. Well, they're the ones who may not vote, while you will vote for Sanders if he gets the nomination. So, yeah, I care more about bringing them in than I do about people who will vote the right way anyways.

Is it fair? Probably not. But it's the way it is. The anti-Bernie people push themselves as being more practical, so be more practical about this, too. Idealism is the enemy in elections.

I'm glad they're passionate. Hell, I'm even glad you're passionate. Passion was the one thing I was worried about being lacking here, since none of the candidates are that different on anything that matters.

But don't let your passion push away the people we're trying to lure in to vote.
  #44  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:43 AM
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I'll add, that youth movement involved in politics in the 1960s produced . . . two terms for Nixon.

CMC fnord!

Last edited by crowmanyclouds; 02-05-2020 at 09:44 AM.
  #45  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:44 AM
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And since the site is lagging and I can't go back and bold what I want to bold, I'll just reiterate the important point:

You are mixing up supporting your candidate with attacking those who support someone else. This thread is about those who go after "Bernie Bros" as the enemy, rather than seeing them as people on the same side who disagree. It's about people who are alienating the very people we're trying to get to vote.

Trump has the advantage. We can't afford to push away anyone.
  #46  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:46 AM
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And since the site is lagging and I can't go back and bold what I want to bold, I'll just reiterate the important point:

You are mixing up supporting your candidate with attacking those who support someone else. This thread is about those who go after "Bernie Bros" as the enemy, rather than seeing them as people on the same side who disagree. It's about people who are alienating the very people we're trying to get to vote.

Trump has the advantage. We can't afford to push away anyone.
Let’s see those who support Bernie show some respect for those of us who have other preferences without accusing us of sucking corporate penises.
  #47  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:49 AM
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I'll add, that youth movement involved in politics in the 1960s produced , . . two terms for Nixon.

CMC fnord!
Or you could look at the reality of who voted which way and not make up stupid shit to confirm you own ageism.

You're literally arguing for disenfranchising young people. You're no better than the Republicans who are trying to disenfranchise non-Republicans.

And, again, I can be mean to you, because you'll vote Democratic anyways.
  #48  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:50 AM
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Let’s see those who support Bernie show some respect for those of us who have other preferences without accusing us of sucking corporate penises.
No. That is the selfish shit I'm talking about. "I won't be nice unless they're nice to me." "My feeling hurt so bad that I'm going to push away the people who could help us win!"

Fuck that shit. You're not the center of the world. Tu quoque only means "I'm going to be as bad as they are." No, you're supposed to be BETTER.

Never is how the other side acts an excuse for how you act.

Last edited by BigT; 02-05-2020 at 09:54 AM.
  #49  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:50 AM
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Because this isn't all about young people and their feelings. It's about winning. And even if young people feel really really really strongly about something, that doesn't mean they are backing the right horse. I have a right to my opinion as well, and no amount of 20-somethings holding their breath and turning blue will take away my right to back a better candidate.
So do you say

A) Okay, Bernie is too extreme for the American public right now. But we appreciate your support and we hear you. So we’re going to do what we can to integrate your platform into our party and welcome you aboard

Or

B) Fuck you, you stupid fucking Bernie Bros. You’re all a bunch of fucking idiot children who can’t play with the adults. We know the candidate we want to shove down your throat will shit on you and won’t do anything to help with the positive changes you want in society, but what are you going to do, vote for Trump? Go fuck yourselves and eat your shit sandwich.
  #50  
Old 02-05-2020, 09:52 AM
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So do you say

A) Okay, Bernie is too extreme for the American public right now. But we appreciate your support and we hear you. So we’re going to do what we can to integrate your platform into our party and welcome you aboard

Or

B) Fuck you, you stupid fucking Bernie Bros. You’re all a bunch of fucking idiot children who can’t play with the adults. We know the candidate we want to shove down your throat will shit on you and won’t do anything to help with the positive changes you want in society, but what are you going to do, vote for Trump? Go fuck yourselves and eat your shit sandwich.
I chose option A.
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