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  #51  
Old 04-14-2019, 10:21 PM
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Having a likes system doesn't mean sorting by likes. It doesn't actually in any way impact who reads what. (Especially not on vBulletin, where the likes appear after the post, in a tiny font.)

What it does is reduce the friction towards voicing agreement. Thus you get more feedback on your posts. Yes, sometimes that's irrelevant. But sometimes you want to know. You may want to know who agrees with you. If you offer advice, you may want to know if people find it helpful. If you make a joke, you may want to know if people found it funny. If you make an argument, you may want to know if people find it well argued. It can help with figuring out the right tone.

Sure, that information can be given just by posting, but it's less likely to be done. People naturally will feel hesitance to post such a simple post, and take up so much room in the discussion. For example, I've laughed at many jokes people make here, but only the best get a post simply acknowledging that I found it funny.

Of course, sometimes you don't care, and that's fine, too. But it is useful when you do. It does not in any way create echo chambers or anything like that. It just makes people feel more appreciated when they post.

Even I notice I'm just nicer on forums with the ability to react positively to a post. They create are more friendly atmosphere.
  #52  
Old 04-14-2019, 10:24 PM
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I've thought about this since the last thread. I think it would make posts more stilted or maybe more crafted to ensure likes (or maybe to troll dislikes). I don't think it would be a horrible thing, or ruin the board, I just don't think we 'need' it. It would be interesting, in an intellectual way, to see what the lurkers and other 'dopers actually think of what's being posted sometimes. It's hard to gauge sometimes, as someone will post something I find interesting but basically agree with and just posting "I agree" always seems a bit weak to me, but if I have nothing to add I just won't post it. But then I'll notice that no one else commented either...does that mean others agreed or disagreed or just didn't care?
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  #53  
Old 04-14-2019, 11:25 PM
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How about an “I’m indifference” button.?
  #54  
Old 04-15-2019, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
Generally speaking, "like"="I agree", "dislike"="I do not agree". Now fot the most part, if you agree with everything that's just been said (or posted), you don't really need to explain why. You are signalling that you are of a similar mindset to the OP re the subject of the post. You dont have anything more to add.
One problem with that is most posts have more than a single piece of information in them. If somebody "likes" my post, which part of it did they like? A mere click on a Like button doesn't tell anyone what or why or how much you "liked". IMO, most folks here prefer finer data rather than coarser.
  #55  
Old 04-15-2019, 07:40 AM
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Amazing how many people didn't read the plain language in my OP (I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they aren't purposefully strawmanning). I said just "likes", no downvotes. Just like Twitter, or really more like Facebook before they added new options. It wouldn't change the order of posts or comments. It would just, as some here like BigT have described, simply let people register "me too" or "that was funny" or "my sympathies" without having to fill up people's screens with posts that say that (which most people, as many noted here, are reluctant to do anyway).
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  #56  
Old 04-15-2019, 07:41 AM
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If something is that worthy of merit, I post to that effect. I've done so on a handful of occasions. If it isn't worth a special mention, then it really isn't that noteworthy to begin with.

Facebook has taught me that a "like" button tends to be overused for politeness sake if for no other reason. I've developed a callous from pressing it so much. A lot of people do that, and that tends to make it trite with little real meaning.
  #57  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:14 AM
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A like button would be the worst of the 3 alternatives of the status quo, like buttons, and post/posting reputation. The like button would have all the problems with the post reputation with none of the benefits. "Like/+1" posts are not a big deal so their removal would not be a huge benefit.

If you had a way to dislike a post but then it still shows up in the same place in the thread, then the unpopular trolls would still complain about being bullied but you'd still have to read their unhelpful posts unless you hit ignore.

Last edited by Ludovic; 04-15-2019 at 09:15 AM.
  #58  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:47 AM
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As an aside, many people who use the term "hive mind" are unable to parse nuance and divide people up into US and THEM, FOR or AGAINST. When if they actually engaged other posters in an honest discussion, they'd see people with much more complex minds.
  #59  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:49 AM
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How would "liking" posts facilitate bullying?

I would envision a "like" feature on the SDMB as a way of indicating "That was useful information" or "That is a good addition to the thread" or "Your attempt to amuse me succeeded," without cluttering up the thread with content-less posts.

But of course it's a moot point if the board software won't support it.
That's what I was thinking too- sometimes I suspect that people will kind of make the mic-drop post in a thread, and it'll just sort of trail off, but it's not always clear when that person has essentially torpedoed and sank everyone else's arguments.

Having a "thumbs up" or "Like" or something like that button would serve that purpose as well.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to a negative equivalent- I think that just an indication of positive or negative sentiment for a post could be useful feedback for a lot of our posters- especially some of the more one-note and strident ones.
  #60  
Old 04-15-2019, 10:26 AM
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I'm new here but if a poster really wants to know how many people agree with them what about creating a poll? Polls convey more information than the Hobson's choice of giving a post your "like"; at least they do when well designed.

If a poster doesn't convey the want for such feedback at the time of posting, what value do mere tokens of appreciation add to the discussion?

I can understand being annoyed by notifications for replies that add no substance to the topic, such as "I laughed" or "me too" or "+1" or "like". If the community thinks such posts are inappropriate for a forum they should say so; see for example rule 6 from General Questions Rules & FAQs:

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General Questions Rules & FAQs
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6. Try to limit the "me, too" posts. If a member has asked a question about a legal matter, for instance, there is no need for everyone who ever got a ticket to post a story. A certain amount is worthwhile to make a point (and we are a community of shared interests, after all), but too many thread live beyond their useful lives because someone wanted to share a story which is only slightly on-topic. Please exercise discretion.
  #61  
Old 04-15-2019, 10:32 AM
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Sure, that information can be given just by posting, but it's less likely to be done. People naturally will feel hesitance to post such a simple post, and take up so much room in the discussion. For example, I've laughed at many jokes people make here, but only the best get a post simply acknowledging that I found it funny.
When this happens to me I might send the poster a private message of appreciation. That way the discussion stays clean. The threshold is higher than laughing during in-person conversation, but that's just a reality of written communication.
  #62  
Old 04-15-2019, 11:40 AM
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* hits dislike button *
  #63  
Old 04-15-2019, 11:59 AM
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Like buttons might show that certain under-represented points of view are actually more popular than they appear. This, in turn, might lead to more people voicing those opinions, leading to more heterodox discussions.

Then again, they might not. Only one way to find out...
  #64  
Old 04-15-2019, 12:02 PM
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Like buttons might show that certain under-represented points of view are actually more popular than they appear. This, in turn, might lead to more people voicing those opinions, leading to more heterodox discussions.

Then again, they might not. Only one way to find out...
As has been said already by The Powers That Be, the current version of vBulletin being used can't do it, and The Powers Above The Powers That Be aren't likely to update any time soon.
  #65  
Old 04-15-2019, 12:13 PM
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Like buttons might show that certain under-represented points of view are actually more popular than they appear. This, in turn, might lead to more people voicing those opinions, leading to more heterodox discussions.
That's kind of where I was going- it would give people feedback, both posters and readers, as to the prevalence or popularity of certain viewpoints, etc...
  #66  
Old 04-15-2019, 02:57 PM
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There already is a way. They can type "I laughed." Typing a dozen or so keystrokes shouldn't overtax anybody's available time or brainpower.
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Originally Posted by Yookeroo View Post
But it doesn't add any more to the discussion than a like button does. And it's more intrusive. I think it actually detracts from discussions. A way to show appreciation for a post without "+1" or "me too" to "I laughed" is far preferrable.
TreacherousCretin thinks the segment he bolded is ridiculous.

Last edited by TreacherousCretin; 04-15-2019 at 02:58 PM.
  #67  
Old 04-15-2019, 06:41 PM
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I'm on other boards with like buttons. This doesn't happen there.
I've tried suggesting that other spaces use reputational features without descending into a hellhole of fascistic oppression via popular opinion... to no avail.
  #68  
Old 04-15-2019, 10:44 PM
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TreacherousCretin thinks the segment he bolded is ridiculous.
digs has tired of suggesting that others not refer to themselves in the third person lest we all descend into a hellhole of fascistic oppression via self-reference... to no avail.
  #69  
Old 04-16-2019, 08:37 PM
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I've tried suggesting that other spaces use reputational features without descending into a hellhole of fascistic oppression via popular opinion... to no avail.
I'm always amused how we think ourselves better than a typical board, yet every change will bring out the worst case scenario in us.
  #70  
Old 04-17-2019, 12:56 AM
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People do tend to resist change. I've been on Facebook long enough to remember when people thought the introduction of the news feed was a shocking violation of privacy. And later, that Twitter moving away from a purely chronological ordering of tweets was essentially the end of the site as we'd known it.
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  #71  
Old 04-17-2019, 07:16 AM
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Maybe the idea isn't possible with the present board software, but if it were, something like this could very easily be instituted on a trial basis, or in only a specific forum, or only when the OP of a thread turns it "on", etc. We could test it without necessarily risking anything to the board at large, if it were possible. And accompanying rules would be appropriate -- no posts or threads asking for likes, no like-counting posts or threads, etc.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 04-17-2019 at 07:18 AM.
  #72  
Old 04-17-2019, 08:11 AM
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I've thought about this since the last thread. I think it would make posts more stilted or maybe more crafted to ensure likes (or maybe to troll dislikes).
I suppose some people would do that.

But between the nature of the board, and given how this board skews old, many if not most of us are in a "if people like what I have to say, then great; if they don't, let's see their reasons" sort of place.

I'm an agnostic on whether we should have likes/dislikes, and part of the reason is that I don't think it'll change the character of the board that much, so if we have 'em, it's no big deal either way. If having them will make some people happier, then who am I to blow against the wind?
  #73  
Old 04-17-2019, 08:14 AM
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I suppose some people would do that.

But between the nature of the board, and given how this board skews old, many if not most of us are in a "if people like what I have to say, then great; if they don't, let's see their reasons" sort of place.

I'm an agnostic on whether we should have likes/dislikes, and part of the reason is that I don't think it'll change the character of the board that much, so if we have 'em, it's no big deal either way. If having them will make some people happier, then who am I to blow against the wind?
I'm pretty neutral about it myself. I don't think it will be a bad thing, I just don't think we 'need it'. If they decide to upgrade the boards software () to a version that supports it and decide to put it in I'll still post here and I doubt things will change that much. Like I said, it would be interesting to see what the lurkers think about some of the posts sometimes, as it's hard to gauge reactions in some threads.
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  #74  
Old 04-17-2019, 09:05 AM
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It's not an option in the version of vBulletin currently in use on the board.

To the best of my knowledge we're not currently scheduled for an upgrade.
Are you sure? A little searching looks like it was added around v3.0 back in 2005.
  #75  
Old 04-17-2019, 09:43 AM
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How about an “I’m indifference” button.?
That would at least have the benefit of adding poor grammar.
  #76  
Old 04-17-2019, 10:19 AM
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How about an “I’m indifference” button.?
Actually, Imgur added a "meh" button to their up and down choices on April 1, 2019. It was just an April Fools thing, but I liked it.
  #77  
Old 04-17-2019, 10:20 AM
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Actually, Imgur added a "meh" button to their up and down choices on April 1, 2019. It was just an April Fools thing, but I liked it.
You know, if we did do this (assuming we could get the current software patched and the PTB would want too), they should definitely add this as a regular thing. I actually like the idea of not just likes and dislikes but meh as well.
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  #78  
Old 04-17-2019, 10:39 AM
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I'm sure there's a handy list somewhere of new stuff in each version but I can't find it. However, I've seen multiple threads in the vB forums discussing it dating back to 2005. From their "vBulletin 3.0 How Do I and Troubleshooting Forum":
Reputation system, What is it??

The SDMB is using version 3.8.7
  #79  
Old 04-17-2019, 10:43 AM
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God forbid we ever consider anything that might make us more appealing to new people.
This is a good point. Do we have any indication that adding "likes" would make us more appealing to new people? I'd like to think everyone here would accept "likes" if presented with convincing evidence that it'd encourage posting and draw new members.
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Old 04-17-2019, 10:47 AM
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This board needs likes like it needs a hole in the head. Why should other posters care that you like the post. If you explain why you like it that could be interesting and worth posting. A plain thumbs-up sign is of no interest whatsoever other than perhaps to boost the ego of the original poster à la Sally Anne Field ...... "Ohhh, you like me!"
  #81  
Old 04-17-2019, 10:48 AM
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IMHO, what makes the Dope intellectual and different is precisely the absence of social-media-ness like thumbing up or downvoting as seen on Facebook or Reddit. It forces things to be more about debate and less about popularity.
Ha ha ha...oh, my!...ha ha ha
  #82  
Old 04-17-2019, 11:45 AM
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digs has tired of suggesting that others not refer to themselves in the third person lest we all descend into a hellhole of fascistic oppression via self-reference... to no avail.
no u

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  #83  
Old 04-17-2019, 12:37 PM
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I'm sure there's a handy list somewhere of new stuff in each version but I can't find it. However, I've seen multiple threads in the vB forums discussing it dating back to 2005. From their "vBulletin 3.0 How Do I and Troubleshooting Forum":
Reputation system, What is it??

The SDMB is using version 3.8.7
It's even mentioned in the board FAQ!
  #84  
Old 04-17-2019, 02:28 PM
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This board needs likes like it needs a hole in the head. Why should other posters care that you like the post. If you explain why you like it that could be interesting and worth posting. A plain thumbs-up sign is of no interest whatsoever other than perhaps to boost the ego of the original poster à la Sally Anne Field ...... "Ohhh, you like me!"
Yep. An ego boosted by the laziest possible gesture, no less.
  #85  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:21 PM
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All I can say is, the posters here who don't want a "like" button because it's too "common", too much "dumbing down the board", too much "then we'd be like everyone else", well, they'd better not have an avatar.

I can't tell, because I have that "feature" turned off. Because avatars dumb down the board.
  #86  
Old 04-17-2019, 04:30 PM
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I might budge a little on this, but. . .

Seeing as I'm not on Twitter, know little about web design, and nothing at all about vBulletin, I have some simple questions. Is this going to show up on our browsers as as standard in-line response with our name, join date, and membership status, except that in the body of the post there's a big upthumb emoji, or something like that?

Or is there a Like button and little box that says 408,153 Like Kunilou's Post at the bottom of each individual post, or something like that?

Or is it more like a poll, where there's a series of buttons with Like, Don't Like, Meh on every post?

And are the names of the posters who choose to click public, visible only to the OP, or totally anonymous? Are they only public if the liker also chooses to comment, or does every random drive-by clicker get their name mentioned?

Under some conditions I might be inclined to agree to a trial period to see what difference it would make, but I want more details.

Last edited by kunilou; 04-17-2019 at 04:31 PM.
  #87  
Old 04-17-2019, 04:32 PM
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TubaDiva is correct. There is no "like" button in our version of vBulletin. I'm pretty sure she is aware of the reputation system that we do have. Those that are advocating it might want to read over exactly how it works, because it does not function exactly like a "like" button. It has a lot of options, but it is designed to work more like a rating system where you rate posts and other users than a facebook-style like button type system.
  #88  
Old 04-17-2019, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by aldiboronti View Post
This board needs likes like it needs a hole in the head. Why should other posters care that you like the post. If you explain why you like it that could be interesting and worth posting. A plain thumbs-up sign is of no interest whatsoever other than perhaps to boost the ego of the original poster à la Sally Anne Field ...... "Ohhh, you like me!"
I think it would be nice to show appreciation for a post I like without a dumb "me too" post. Especially if I have nothing to add. The probably reason I'd "like" a post is because they've said what I want to say, but done it better than I could. My repeating the same point over again is far worse then a "like".
  #89  
Old 04-17-2019, 06:44 PM
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I'm sure there's a handy list somewhere of new stuff in each version but I can't find it. However, I've seen multiple threads in the vB forums discussing it dating back to 2005. From their "vBulletin 3.0 How Do I and Troubleshooting Forum":
Reputation system, What is it??

The SDMB is using version 3.8.7
Wow, the thread where they were discussing it in your link was from 2005. Seemed most in that thread who were board admins seemingly were against it. I'm not clear how the reputation system works in practical terms. I've obviously seen how the like/dislike system works on YouTube (I use it fairly often) and Facebook (I try to never go there and my account is basically defunct), but how would it work here? Like on Reddit or something else?
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  #90  
Old 04-17-2019, 07:47 PM
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I think it would be nice to show appreciation for a post I like without a dumb "me too" post. Especially if I have nothing to add. The probably reason I'd "like" a post is because they've said what I want to say, but done it better than I could. My repeating the same point over again is far worse then a "like".

"Like"

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Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
All I can say is, the posters here who don't want a "like" button because it's too "common", too much "dumbing down the board", too much "then we'd be like everyone else", well, they'd better not have an avatar.

I can't tell, because I have that "feature" turned off. Because avatars dumb down the board.

Interesting. If avatars can be turned off for individuals (I don't have one BTW), you'd think the likes could be as well.

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Maybe the idea isn't possible with the present board software, but if it were, something like this could very easily be instituted on a trial basis, or in only a specific forum, or only when the OP of a thread turns it "on", etc. We could test it without necessarily risking anything to the board at large, if it were possible. And accompanying rules would be appropriate -- no posts or threads asking for likes, no like-counting posts or threads, etc.

"Like"
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  #91  
Old 04-17-2019, 08:01 PM
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It seems to me that the Dope is slowy dying. While we don't want throw the baby out with the bathwater, we need to make some changes. I say we should try the reputation feature. If it makes things worse, we can turn it back off.
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  #92  
Old 04-17-2019, 08:33 PM
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Seemed most in that thread who were board admins seemingly were against it.
That's probably an important data point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XT View Post
I'm not clear how the reputation system works in practical terms. I've obviously seen how the like/dislike system works on YouTube (I use it fairly often) and Facebook (I try to never go there and my account is basically defunct), but how would it work here? Like on Reddit or something else?
The important thing is that it's not a "like" system, it's a "reputation" system. You don't just "like" a post like you do on youtube or facebook. You rate posts and you rate other users. It factors in all kinds of things, so things like how many posts you have or how long you have been a member can affect how much your "vote" affects someone's overall reputation.

There are a lot of options with the system, which I do not know in detail since we have the system turned off here and I don't have admin access to any vBulletin system.

The important difference is that the system is designed to rate people, not posts. It's not a facebook or youtube style "like" system.
  #93  
Old 04-17-2019, 09:22 PM
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"Reputation" is a scoring system for people. Not "I like this post," but a way of rating people on the board.

The score can be affected by how long a user has been a member of the community, the number of posts they make, etc.

Really, it's not needed here; you all rate one another in most everything you do already. You evaluate and assess one another based on factors like, oh, how long a user has been a member of the community and the number of posts they make.

Besides, we're a little more equal opportunity here. While we cherish our long time members, just because you haven't been here a while doesn't mean you can't bring good stuff to the community or that you don't have meaningful content to contribute. With a reputation system, those voices might be disregarded because they have low scores or no scores.

This wouldn't bring more people; in fact, i think it would tend to drive people away, especially newer members. It's hard enough to get a foothold here as it is. Don't make it tougher for people to hang.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Jenny
your humble TubaDiva
  #94  
Old 04-17-2019, 09:36 PM
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Yuck.
  #95  
Old 04-18-2019, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocCathode View Post
It seems to me that the Dope is slowy dying. While we don't want throw the baby out with the bathwater, we need to make some changes. I say we should try the reputation feature. If it makes things worse, we can turn it back off.
Slowly dying? Hell, I just got here.

~Max
  #96  
Old 04-18-2019, 08:55 AM
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I think that the Snackpit had the ratings thing for a bit which didn’t work at all because of anonymous posting. As I recall, one could rate posts from one to five stars. You wouldn’t see the number of likes. You’d see that it had an average of 3.2 stars.
  #97  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocCathode View Post
It seems to me that the Dope is slowy dying.
We're all slowly dying.
  #98  
Old 04-18-2019, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
We're all slowly dying.
That doesn't mean we have to like it.
  #99  
Old 04-18-2019, 07:04 PM
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Now that I've thought about it a bit more, I wouldn't mind "likes" as long as there were no dislikes and you could see who has clicked "like". That way we'd know if a non-posting shill army has liked the post or if it was genuinely well-received.
  #100  
Old 04-19-2019, 11:02 AM
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Now that I've thought about it a bit more, I wouldn't mind "likes" as long as there were no dislikes and you could see who has clicked "like". That way we'd know if a non-posting shill army has liked the post or if it was genuinely well-received.

"Like"
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