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Old 04-15-2019, 06:53 PM
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I just want to stick my fingers in my ears and squeeze my eyes shut, and pretend I did not hear about this disaster. In my head I can imagine it is still there, and still the same.
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  #102  
Old 04-15-2019, 07:07 PM
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Um.... I believe this is an image of the North Rose It... doesn't look good. And that's before the spire collapsed, several more hours of fire can not have done it any good.
That's not the rose window, I think it's a window in the attic above the rose window.
  #103  
Old 04-15-2019, 07:09 PM
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Sadly, construction & renovation often raises the risk of fire in old buildings. Old wood dries out and is easily combustible.

Notre Dame was a beautiful building and will be again. It may take a lot of money & years of construction, but I think it will be rebuilt.

I was initially confused when I heard the reports on my car radio. (heavy traffic and the radio was just background noise) Thought there was a fire at Notre Dame University. Took awhile to sink in they were talking about France.

Last edited by aceplace57; 04-15-2019 at 07:14 PM.
  #104  
Old 04-15-2019, 07:17 PM
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Here's an article on the restoration of York Minster's rose window after fire. It gives some hope but of course we don't know what remains of Notre Dame's windows yet.

Last edited by Springtime for Spacers; 04-15-2019 at 07:18 PM.
  #105  
Old 04-15-2019, 07:19 PM
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The Guardian has information from a French journalist who reports:

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Laurent Valdigui, a French journalist on the scene, reports that the north rose stained glass window – La Rosace Nord – “seems to have held”.

“On the street, on the ground, no debris of stained glass. Just old broken stones... ‘We stay worried,’ whispers a fireman,” he tweeted.
It's a maybe. But at this point, I'll take a maybe.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:21 PM
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Hooboy, would I hate to be the one who accidentally left the acetylene torch on.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:30 PM
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France typically uses large aerial firefighting aircraft, particularly the Canadair CL-415, to fight wildfires. Even if they were available nearby for deployment, such aircraft are in general not suited to fighting structure fires. A full load of water from a CL-415 weighs over 6 metric tonnes; that much water falling at once on the cathedral would be destructive of anything standing, including the centuries-old masonry structures. I'm not sure what would happen when that much water started flashing to steam on contact with the heat inside the building, either. Also importantly, it's difficult to be precise in releasing that water -- it's meant to fight a forest fire, not a single building. The water drop would pose a danger to people, equipment, and structures near the cathedral. Finally, the smoke and increasing darkness would make it difficult to operate the aircraft over the site.
At no time did they have control of the fire. At best the fire fighters kept the airborne ash content down somewhat.

As to the weight of the water that would be a function of the dispersal pattern and that's computer controlled. It's not 1950.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:30 PM
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France typically uses large aerial firefighting aircraft, particularly the Canadair CL-415, to fight wildfires. Even if they were available nearby for deployment, such aircraft are in general not suited to fighting structure fires. A full load of water from a CL-415 weighs over 6 metric tonnes; that much water falling at once on the cathedral would be destructive of anything standing, including the centuries-old masonry structures. I'm not sure what would happen when that much water started flashing to steam on contact with the heat inside the building, either. Also importantly, it's difficult to be precise in releasing that water -- it's meant to fight a forest fire, not a single building. The water drop would pose a danger to people, equipment, and structures near the cathedral. Finally, the smoke and increasing darkness would make it difficult to operate the aircraft over the site.
And THIS is why helicopters weren't dipping water out of the Seine and dumping it onto or into the cathedral. That method is designed for fighting fires in uninhabited areas
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:41 PM
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Thought there was a fire at Notre Dame University.
I got just a quick mention in passing at first and thought "Again?" Much of the university was destroyed in the Great Fire of 1879.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:43 PM
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The Idiot Trump is tweeting that they should use tankers.

Last edited by madmonk28; 04-15-2019 at 07:44 PM.
  #111  
Old 04-15-2019, 07:49 PM
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Um.... I believe this is an image of the North Rose It... doesn't look good. And that's before the spire collapsed, several more hours of fire can not have done it any good.

I wonder if the bird is okay?
  #112  
Old 04-15-2019, 07:54 PM
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Didn't somebody do a 3D laser scan of the interior, at one point?
If so, who has the files?
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:05 PM
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At no time did they have control of the fire. At best the fire fighters kept the airborne ash content down somewhat.

As to the weight of the water that would be a function of the dispersal pattern and that's computer controlled. It's not 1950.
Having toured the production factory of these aircraft, been shown the function of the water collection and release systems, and observed their airborne operation, I can say with confidence that they are neither computer-controlled, nor able to release water in precise, fine amounts. The water release is directly controlled by a lever in the cockpit actuating hydraulic doors. Even with precision flying and a quick on-off of the release system, you're looking at something like a metric tonne of water falling as a unit onto a structure already weakened by fire.

To keep it from spreading over a large area, you'd have to fly very low, which is impractical and unsafe in these conditions. But if you did drop it from a low altitude, it would fall mostly as a mass, rather than dispersing into a mist of droplets, and you'd get a huge hit of water on the order of a tonne or more hitting the building more or less at once.

Water-bombers are not suited to structure fires inside cities.
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  #114  
Old 04-15-2019, 08:19 PM
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Didn't somebody do a 3D laser scan of the interior, at one point?
If so, who has the files?
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Thanks to the hard work of Dr. Andrew Tallon, Paris officials might be able to use 3D models of Notre Dame to eventually restore the landmark to its original glory. Tallon created a digital archive of the building in 2015 by using laser scanning technology. He has used this tech to do the same for numerous other Gothic cathedrals throughout the world...

Tallon's scans are so accurate that he may have discovered why some of Notre Dame's pillars don't line up: apparently, they could have been originally built around existing structures, which gives us some interesting insight into the building's past. Whether or not Tallon's work will be made available to future Paris restoration professionals remains to be seen, as he tragically passed away in 2018.
https://www.techspot.com/news/79667-...d-digital.html

He was a professor at Vassar College so they may have the records.
  #115  
Old 04-15-2019, 08:31 PM
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Having toured the production factory of these aircraft, been shown the function of the water collection and release systems, and observed their airborne operation, I can say with confidence that they are neither computer-controlled, nor able to release water in precise, fine amounts.
Large fixed-wing airtankers have complex, computer controlled retardant dispersal systems capable of both precise incremental drops and long trailing drops one-fourth of a mile or more in length. Retardant flow rates can also be controlled to vary the retardant coverage level dispersed as required by the intensity of the fire behavior and vegetative fuel type.
  #116  
Old 04-15-2019, 08:33 PM
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By putting a misting system in it like they did for St Patrick's Cathedral in New York.
Whether there was a misting system or a more conventional sprinkler; it appears that the fire started above where they would be (roof); meaning they wouldn't be able to do much.

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As to the weight of the water that would be a function of the dispersal pattern and that's computer controlled. It's not 1950.
Wrong. They're designed for a force dump of water.
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Bambi bucket promo material
Discharging a solid column of water (not a spray) means less water evaporates on its descent plus it delivers more impact force.

Also, there are very few buildings like Notre Dame being both extremely old & high, with only typically one floor, meaning a very high ceiling. In general, churches are bitch fires; a cathedral is only worse because, unlike your neighborhood church, they are higher than the 75' - 100' aerial platforms that FDs typically have. Even if they bought a medium sized bucket just for fighting a (until today) hypothetical fire in that church, a building that hasn't burned in hundreds of years it probably wouldn't justify the bureaucratic cost-benefit justification analysis to buy a piece of equipment that might get used once. You'd also need a helicopter staged somewhat near the city & have the crew train on that to be able to call it in on the off chance it's needed where the most benefit would be to have their base near a rural, forested area.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:38 PM
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Large fixed-wing airtankers have complex, computer controlled retardant dispersal systems capable of both precise incremental drops and long trailing drops one-fourth of a mile or more in length. Retardant flow rates can also be controlled to vary the retardant coverage level dispersed as required by the intensity of the fire behavior and vegetative fuel type.
Where 'precise' means "less that a fourth of a mile" (1300 feet, for a cathedral whose long dimension is 420 feet), and 'incremental' means 'part of the load first, then another part of the load' - fractions of 6.3 tonnes, in the case of the CL-415 France mainly uses.

"Precision air drops" on a small wildfire are very different from hitting a specific building in the middle of a city.

Some aircraft may have computer-controlled actuation of water or retardant release systems. To the best of my knowledge, the aircraft used in France do not.
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  #118  
Old 04-15-2019, 08:47 PM
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Where 'precise' means "less that a fourth of a mile" (1300 feet, for a cathedral whose long dimension is 420 feet), and 'incremental' means 'part of the load first, then another part of the load' - fractions of 6.3 tonnes, in the case of the CL-415 France mainly uses.

"Precision air drops" on a small wildfire are very different from hitting a specific building in the middle of a city.

Some aircraft may have computer-controlled actuation of water or retardant release systems. To the best of my knowledge, the aircraft used in France do not.
Obviously, what's needed is smart water.
  #119  
Old 04-15-2019, 08:53 PM
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Obviously, what's needed is smart water.
It's got electrolytes!

https://www.drinksmartwater.com
  #120  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:02 PM
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This may be prematurely optimistic. My parents had a small kitchen fire when I was in 7th grade. Smoke damage on everything. It penetrated our kitchen cabinets and countertops. Even the appliance finishes had baked in soot. We spent days cleaning and the baked in soot was impossible to clean. Kitchen was almost a gut job. Down the hall, in the den the floor tile had soot baked in. My mom put in carpet.

Getting rid of the soot smell was another almost impossible job. We used several coats of Kilz on the sheetrock trying to cover the soot.

https://nypost.com/2019/04/15/photos...lously-intact/
Quote:
Photos from inside Notre Dame show the central part of the historic Gothic cathedral still intact.

Rows of wooden pews and much of the nave appears to have been saved, according to the images.

“Only a small part of the vault collapsed. Interior seems relatively untouched. Hallelujah!” wrote @CathedralNotre.

Last edited by aceplace57; 04-15-2019 at 09:06 PM.
  #121  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:06 PM
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Its good to know that not even a tragic, devastating fire can hold peoples attention when an idiot president talks about things he clearly doesnt have the first idea about, and of course someone will rise to his defense of what, uh, brains he has.
  #122  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:07 PM
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This may be prematurely optimistic. My parents had a small kitchen fire when I was in 7th grade. Smoke damage on everything. It penetrated our kitchen cabinets and countertops. Even the appliance finishes had baked in soot. We spent days cleaning and the baked in soot was impossible to clean.
Well, it's early days yet to confidently predict anything about recovery from this fire, but I think the French government might have a wider range of options available for repairing smoke damage in Notre Dame than you and your parents did for cleaning your kitchen.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:11 PM
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I hope so.

Anyone that's dealt with even a small fire knows how hard soot is to clean. The smell is something you never forget. The building will reek of it for months. Especially on damp days.

Last edited by aceplace57; 04-15-2019 at 09:15 PM.
  #124  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:12 PM
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I think I understand about the rose windows. They weren't talking about the glass, but the structure or the frame that the glass is set into.
  #125  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:32 PM
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Where 'precise' means "less that a fourth of a mile" (1300 feet, for a cathedral whose long dimension is 420 feet), and 'incremental' means 'part of the load first, then another part of the load' - fractions of 6.3 tonnes, in the case of the CL-415 France mainly uses.
Yes, and???? load the plane with the amount you want to drop.

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"Precision air drops" on a small wildfire are very different from hitting a specific building in the middle of a city.
Look at the first 2 passes in this video. The same precise drop by both planes. Given today's WAAS enabled GPS systems it puts an airplane plus or minus a couple of feet. The Cathedral sat on an island surrounded by water.

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Some aircraft may have computer-controlled actuation of water or retardant release systems. To the best of my knowledge, the aircraft used in France do not.
Even if they don't they still have a guidance system that gives them precise control of altitude and flight path and that controls the spread pattern. The advantage of Notre Dame is that it sits on an island. you can either watch it burn uncontrolled for 5 hours from a distance like the fire fighters did or drop water on it from above.

It's not like it's a secret what happened. It's a smoldering shell.
  #126  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:56 PM
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For purposes of art and history, it really doesn't matter whether an individual, or even a majority of individuals, dislikes a particular style. I don't want to lose exemplars of styles that I dislike any more than I want to lose exemplars of styles that I like.
Al Aqsa mosque also burnt today. Wondering if that gives you the same shivers.
Doubt it,
  #127  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:57 PM
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Apparently someone has faked a video supposedly depicting Muslims celebrating at the scene.
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  #128  
Old 04-15-2019, 10:00 PM
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Yes, and???? load the plane with the amount you want to drop.

Look at the first 2 passes in this video. The same precise drop by both planes. Given today's WAAS enabled GPS systems it puts an airplane plus or minus a couple of feet. The Cathedral sat on an island surrounded by water.

Even if they don't they still have a guidance system that gives them precise control of altitude and flight path and that controls the spread pattern. The advantage of Notre Dame is that it sits on an island. you can either watch it burn uncontrolled for 5 hours from a distance like the fire fighters did or drop water on it from above.

It's not like it's a secret what happened. It's a smoldering shell.
The important thing is that you know better than the actual French firefighters what resources they have, what will work, how well and how safe it would be.

Last edited by raventhief; 04-15-2019 at 10:01 PM.
  #129  
Old 04-15-2019, 10:04 PM
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Al Aqsa mosque also burnt today. Wondering if that gives you the same shivers.
Doubt it,
I don't understand why you would say such a thing. What justifies your "doubt"?
  #130  
Old 04-15-2019, 10:07 PM
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Al Aqsa mosque also burnt today. Wondering if that gives you the same shivers.
Doubt it,
I've never been to Al Aqsa mosque and know little about it other than its location. So, no, it doesn't have as much personal relevance to me as Notre Dame cathedral. I don't know why that should be a matter of eye rolling, however. Paris is more important to my personal life than Jerusalem is. I don't consider that to be a matter of pride or shame.


If it's a structure of architectural, historical, and cultural importance, then its loss is still a tragedy. I'm not going to go around saying "I don't like the style so I'm not going to miss it."
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  #131  
Old 04-15-2019, 10:17 PM
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Al Aqsa mosque also burnt today. Wondering if that gives you the same shivers.
Doubt it,
Exaggerate much?
Blaze Erupts at Jerusalems Historic al-Aqsa Mosque as Notre Dame Burns
Quote:
A fire broke out in al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, the third-holiest site in Islam, on Monday. The blaze didnt cause significant damage, but it did endanger a part of the worship site thats over 2,000 years old.

The fire broke out in the guard room outside the al-Marwani Prayer Room Monday evening, according to a statement by the mosque's Islamic Waqf (Endowments) Department. According to The New Arab, a guard reported a short gap in guard rotations between 7:15 and 7:30 p.m. local time.
Smoke rises around the alter in front of the cross inside the Notre Dame Cathedral as a fire continues to burn in Paris, France, April 16, 2019.



The waqf department praised the responsiveness of staff firefighters, who quickly put out the blaze. The fire seems to have been started by children fooling around, and the waqf's statement urged worshipers "who live around the mosque and in the Old City to educate their children not to tamper with fire, especially inside al-Aqsa mosque."
  #132  
Old 04-15-2019, 10:29 PM
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How do you insure an 800-year old building that's larger than a football field and the literally irreplaceable artwork inside.
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Which is why it is almost certainly not insured.
... National governments tend not to insure their major historic monuments
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Al Aqsa mosque also burnt today. Wondering if that gives you the same shivers.
Doubt it,
This thread, and these particular comments make me think of a poem by the late great British comedian Spike Milligan.

Holy Smoke

I am the Vicar of St Paul's
And I'm ringing the steeple bell,
The floor of the church is on fire,
Or the lid has come off hell.

Shall I ring the fire brigade?
Or should I trust the Lord?
Oh dear! I've just remembered,
I don't think we're insured!

'What's this then?' said the fire chief.
'Is this church C of E?
It is? Then we can't put it out,
My lads are all R.C!'

The bells of hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling.
  #133  
Old 04-15-2019, 10:51 PM
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Yes, and???? load the plane with the amount you want to drop.
How do they know "the amount they want to drop", given that dumping large amounts of water on the building could have caused the whole structure to collapse, which by the way is why they didn't do it?

Although the French are not surprisingly appalled at the destruction caused by the fire, I'm pretty sure that they prefer to have the cathedral a "smoldering shell" than collapsed in a heap of wet rubble.

I mean, c'mon, it's really not as though there weren't any qualified people in Paris during the emergency thinking about this issue. The fact that you and they came to different conclusions about what they should do prrrrrrrrrrrrrobably does not imply that they're the smugly ignorant and incompetent ones in this situation.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:58 PM
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Have they said why there wasn't a fire suppression system in place? Dry chemicals might have been an option instead of water in areas with valuable artifacts.

Isn't that part of building code in most modern countries?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_suppression_system

Last edited by aceplace57; 04-15-2019 at 11:01 PM.
  #135  
Old 04-15-2019, 11:01 PM
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What could it have been due to? Ashtray? Tightly coiled power cable? Heater?
  #136  
Old 04-15-2019, 11:29 PM
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Magiver, you seem to be very invested in being right about this. Would it make any difference to you to know that every single professional firefighter interviewed for this story on the various news stations said that using an airplane to drop water on the cathedral was not just unfeasible, it would have resulted in catastrophic damage to the cathedral, the surrounding buildings, and the people on the ground?

I think you need to check your theory. The people who know this business don't agree with you anymore than the people here do.
  #137  
Old 04-15-2019, 11:31 PM
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What could it have been due to? Ashtray? Tightly coiled power cable? Heater?
Its a construction site. Anyone of two dozen things can cause it. While precautions are supposed to be taken, people get lazy. And or unlucky.
The initial fire seems to have been concentrated on the scaffolding.
The wooden frame is more or less gone. Engineers will need to examine it once it cools, stone cooling and contracting (after expanding) will put incredible stresses on the structure, equivalent of God knows how many freeze, thaw, heat, cool cycles.

Very likely damaged beyond economical repair.
Its stature means the economical bit will be mostly ignored.
But out of Commission for years, if not decades? Yup.
  #138  
Old 04-15-2019, 11:32 PM
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How do they know "the amount they want to drop",
Because you can calculate the dispersion rate at different heights and thus the loads created. By limiting the amount carried you can control the length of the release.

If you looked at the link I posted you would see a very precise release repeated seconds later by the next plane.

The math and physics involved in these calculations are many magnitudes less than what went into designing the plane itself.
  #139  
Old 04-15-2019, 11:34 PM
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I heard about the al-Aqsa mosque a few hours ago. I was very happy to learn that the damage had been minimal. It is the third holiest site in the Muslim world, it is very old, and it is very beautiful. Losing it would have been a cultural tragedy, as losing Notre Dame would be. Luckily, while the damage to Notre Dame is far worse than that at al-Aqsa, it seems that both buildings will survive and Notre Dame will be restored.

I call that two wins.
  #140  
Old 04-15-2019, 11:49 PM
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Magiver, you seem to be very invested in being right about this. Would it make any difference to you to know that every single professional firefighter interviewed for this story on the various news stations said that using an airplane to drop water on the cathedral was not just unfeasible, it would have resulted in catastrophic damage to the cathedral, the surrounding buildings, and the people on the ground?

I think you need to check your theory. The people who know this business don't agree with you anymore than the people here do.
Ultimately, I'm questioning who made the decision and what were the calculations used. "Nuh uh, water's heavy" is not a calculation. Here's a video of the same plane discussed putting out a truck fire on a highway. A very precise strike. That could have been Notre Dame.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:56 PM
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What could it have been due to? Ashtray? Tightly coiled power cable? Heater?
The problem is with the spire. It was added on in the 19th century and creates a chimney in the center of the structure. If it catches fire it becomes a heat engine and draws air up through the interior roof which is literally a forest of trees.

Last edited by Magiver; 04-15-2019 at 11:58 PM.
  #142  
Old 04-16-2019, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
Al Aqsa mosque also burnt today. Wondering if that gives you the same shivers.
Doubt it,
Bit of a difference between
Quote:
"The fire broke out in the guard's room outside the roof of the Marwani prayer room, Antar al-Hazmawi, a guard of the al-Aqsa mosque confirmed to the The New Arab.

The fire brigade of the Islamic Waqf department in Jerusalem managed to control the blaze, while the area is currently closed to examine the cause of the fire, which is currently unclear."
https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/ne...athedral-burns

And The Entire Fucking Cathedral Burning Down. See, e.g., this nighttime drone picture from the fire. https://media.apnarm.net.au/media/im..._ct460x258.jpg

When the Dome of the Rock, which is how many people here probably first think of that particular mosque, suffers that kind of damage, I will lower my head in along with you in remorse. Edit: Remorse is probably wrong. I didn't start the fire, after all. Call it sadness and grief instead.

Until then, take your rolled eyes, and attempt to shame posters with some sense of inadequate cultural sensitivity, and take it to another thread.

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 04-16-2019 at 12:07 AM.
  #143  
Old 04-16-2019, 12:13 AM
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Because you can calculate the dispersion rate at different heights and thus the loads created.
And how do you know how great a load of water is safe to drop? What you've got there is a centuries-old stone building that has probably never been modeled (much less tested) for withstanding that kind of massive impact, currently undergoing unprecedented structural strains due to a catastrophic fire. All you've got for estimating an appropriate load is guesswork.

And if you guess wrong and drop too much water, congratulations, you've just collapsed Notre Dame. Why on earth would you think that your idea is a more sensible way to approach the problem than "let's fight the fire as best we can without knocking the building flat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magiver
Ultimately, I'm questioning who made the decision and what were the calculations used. "Nuh uh, water's heavy" is not a calculation.
"Sure, stone buildings are plenty strong!" is not a calculation either. In the case of a medieval building whose original structure and construction aren't fully known even now, and which is being weakened every minute by a devastating fire in ways that you don't have the luxury of observing and modeling in detail, why should anyone naively assume that "calculations" are guaranteed to provide a reliable answer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magiver
The math and physics involved in these calculations are many magnitudes less than what went into designing the plane itself.
I think you have no idea what would actually be involved in the calculations of how much water it's safe to dump on a burning Notre Dame from a plane without knocking the whole building down, nor how imperfectly known the data are that would be required to even attempt such calculations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magiver
Here's a video of the same plane discussed putting out a truck fire on a highway. A very precise strike. That could have been Notre Dame.
No matter how many videos you drag in of planes dumping masses of water on pieces of ground that cannot collapse, covered with burning trucks or trees that are past saving anyway, they will not add up to an argument in favor of planes dumping masses of water on a burning medieval building whose capacity to stand up to masses of water dumped on it is very poorly understood, and which it is really quite important not to cause to collapse.

Last edited by Kimstu; 04-16-2019 at 12:14 AM.
  #144  
Old 04-16-2019, 12:24 AM
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And how do you know how great a load of water is safe to drop?
Because you can calculate mass times velocity. At some point in altitude the water is coming down like rain as it disperses.

But if you're worried about the load on the walls consider that the flying buttresses are designed to counter the weight above that is pushing the walls out. All of the roof and part of ceiling is now on the floor yet the counter force of the buttresses are still in place.

Last edited by Magiver; 04-16-2019 at 12:25 AM.
  #145  
Old 04-16-2019, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
I'm sure the building and grounds are insured.
Right. Because that's the main concern.


Quote:
Old buildings are great to look at, but modern fire codes exist for a reason.
This is more than just an "old building". Jesus fucking Christ.
  #146  
Old 04-16-2019, 12:55 AM
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Apparently someone has faked a video supposedly depicting Muslims celebrating at the scene.
I took a look at a RWNJ message board that I follow (but do not post on) from time to time. They're all convinced that the fire was caused by Muslim terrorists. A few have gone a little farther, and stated that the fire was caused (by Muslim terrorists, naturally) in order to destroy a Christian landmark, so Muslims could build a mosque on the site.

Combine this with (in the same thread I looked at) "This is what open borders gets you," and "President Trump is right; the French have no clue how to fight this, water bombers are needed," and of course, "This won't happen in America, as long as we can keep the Muslims out."

Nobody knows, at this point what caused the fire, but some Americans are absolutely convinced, without any evidence, that it's Muslim terrorism, and the French are too stupid to figure out how to put out a fire.

Last edited by Spoons; 04-16-2019 at 12:57 AM.
  #147  
Old 04-16-2019, 01:11 AM
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The problem is with the spire. It was added on in the 19th century and creates a chimney in the center of the structure. If it catches fire it becomes a heat engine and draws air up through the interior roof which is literally a forest of trees.
Interesting. Thanks
  #148  
Old 04-16-2019, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
Ultimately, I'm questioning who made the decision and what were the calculations used. "Nuh uh, water's heavy" is not a calculation. Here's a video of the same plane discussed putting out a truck fire on a highway. A very precise strike. That could have been Notre Dame.
IF Notre Dame de Paris were a smoldering truck in the middle of a highway, I would agree. That method would have worked.

A wall of water of that mass and force could have caused serious damage to the stone walls. Multiple professional engineering types have been saying such on TV for hours.
On pretty much every network. The fact it appears you don't understand this makes me sad for you.
  #149  
Old 04-16-2019, 01:35 AM
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No, the North Rose Window is the much bigger one. That's one of the roof roses.
  #150  
Old 04-16-2019, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
Al Aqsa mosque also burnt today. Wondering if that gives you the same shivers.
Doubt it,
Fortunately, buildings aren't that flammable in this part of the world. Very little wooden construction, you see.
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