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  #151  
Old 12-15-2019, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by JKellyMap View Post
Awesome post. Should be a sticky, if it had much chance of doing any good. Won’t help anyone who needs to change, but it might help the rest of us a little as we deal with such folks.

I acknowledge that sometimes I might be on of “them” and not “us.” I find that hard to imagine, but Dunning and Kruger’s findings were based on real evidence, so I have to accept that it’s a possibility.
But see, this is why we take the risk : for that good-good ego stroking when it's not *too* obviously bollocks we talk. Oh yeah debate daddy, gimme that endorphin rush...

(smartarsery aside, thanks for the kind words)
  #152  
Old 12-15-2019, 10:24 AM
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Sure, we can remove him. So long as we remove everyone else who lies. Which would be the entire government as best I can tell.
Yeah, no. Trump doesn't just "lie." A mere "lie" is saying six inches when it's three and a half. Trump is a massively insecure yet arrogant, selfish, hateful, petty, spiteful, liar, a man who lies right to your face about yourself. He cannot live without his lies. And his followers want his lies to be true, so they love his lies.
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  #153  
Old 12-15-2019, 12:16 PM
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And his followers want his lies to be true.
I get the impresion a shitload of'em couldn't give a flyng turtle's fuck about his lies, and just want to see the country burn.

ETA: Ya but Schiff's constant, nasty, mean, round-the-clock lying, though.

Last edited by Guest-starring: Id!; 12-15-2019 at 12:21 PM.
  #154  
Old 12-15-2019, 12:22 PM
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Meet The Press featured a discussion of "Regular Joes" about their impeachment interest. One woman, a Trump supporter, asked why we were giving money to Ukraine in the first place. "Did we owe them money; was this a gift?"
Her ignorance of the facts was no deterrent to proudly having an opinion. Trump supporters often choose willful ignorance over actual thought.
Either that, or she was genuinely fucking stupid, which can not be ruled out.

Last edited by bobot; 12-15-2019 at 12:23 PM.
  #155  
Old 12-15-2019, 12:23 PM
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Trump supporters often choose willful ignorance over actual thought.
Either that, or she was genuinely fucking stupid, which can not be ruled out.
It can be, and usually is, both.
  #156  
Old 12-15-2019, 01:01 PM
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Omg a link


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It can be, and usually is, both.
They lie, they know they're lying, we know they're lying, and we need to call them out on it.
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Last edited by margin; 12-15-2019 at 01:01 PM. Reason: typo
  #157  
Old 12-15-2019, 02:00 PM
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Now Schiff is claiming ignorance to cover for the lies that he told. He had the same access to information as Nunes and even wrote a rebuttal to the Nunes memo. If we take Schiff at his word that he had no knowledge of the abuses outlined in the IG Report his memo which was widely accepted as true was based on no factual information at all.

Schiff interview with Chris Wallace
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  #158  
Old 12-15-2019, 02:16 PM
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Now Schiff is claiming ignorance to cover for the lies that he told.
Do you know how to fucking cite?

And no - not unexplained youtube links.
  #159  
Old 12-15-2019, 02:19 PM
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Now Schiff is claiming ignorance to cover for the lies that he told. He had the same access to information as Nunes and even wrote a rebuttal to the Nunes memo. If we take Schiff at his word that he had no knowledge of the abuses outlined in the IG Report his memo which was widely accepted as true was based on no factual information at all.

Schiff interview with Chris Wallace
I know that this is going to come as a shock to many, but that's a straight up bonkers summary of what Schiff said in that interview.
  #160  
Old 12-15-2019, 02:26 PM
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I know that this is going to come as a shock to many, but that's a straight up bonkers summary of what Schiff said in that interview.
Really? How?

Schiff said in the interview:

Quote:
...But there were nonetheless serious abuses of FISA which were not apparent two years ago...
He penned a memo saying the opposite was true and like I said earlier he had access to the same information as Nunes. He's lying.
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  #161  
Old 12-15-2019, 02:28 PM
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Meet The Press featured a discussion of "Regular Joes" about their impeachment interest. One woman, a Trump supporter, asked why we were giving money to Ukraine in the first place. "Did we owe them money; was this a gift?"
Her ignorance of the facts was no deterrent to proudly having an opinion. Trump supporters often choose willful ignorance over actual thought.
Either that, or she was genuinely fucking stupid, which can not be ruled out.
Every single person Meet The Press interviewed was a white Trump supporter. Those are supposedly the Regular Joes they found.
  #162  
Old 12-15-2019, 02:34 PM
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Really? How?

Schiff said in the interview:

Quote:
...But there were nonetheless serious abuses of FISA which were not apparent two years ago...
He penned a memo saying the opposite was true and like I said earlier he had access to the same information as Nunes. He's lying.
Gee whiz. I have seen the light. I'm 100% convinced and I'm sure your quote of a part of a sentence does not leave out any context at all.

You're an intellectually dishonest trash bag with well below par critical thinking skills. Go fuck yourself.
  #163  
Old 12-15-2019, 02:41 PM
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Gee whiz. I have seen the light. I'm 100% convinced and I'm sure your quote of a part of a sentence does not leave out any context at all.

You're an intellectually dishonest trash bag with well below par critical thinking skills. Go fuck yourself.
He's either a Russian working to spread this bullshit, or a dupe who is spreading Russian bullshit because he's stupid.
  #164  
Old 12-15-2019, 07:55 PM
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EasyPhil, just to make sure we're on the same reality plane here, even assuming Adam Schiff is the lyingest liar ever to lie and even assuming that the FBI lied their asses off when saying why they wanted the Carter Page surveillance, none of that is actually relevant to the question of whether Trump committed impeachable acts, right?

Since impeachment isn't a criminal inquiry, there really is no "fruit of the poisoned tree" concept, no getting off on technicalities. The evidence is there and is impeachable and removable or it isn't. It doesn't matter where it came from. Agreed?

If the president were removed, either through impeachment or through the election, we could have a discussion on whether this evidence is admissible in a criminal trial. I think it would be, because I think you're wrong on the facts, but there's at least a discussion to be had. However, this isn't a criminal trial.

My opinion is that the president committed impeachable offenses and should be removed from office. I imagine you disagree.

However, I think we should agree that where the evidence came from, at this point, is not relevant to the impeachment question. Agreed?
  #165  
Old 12-15-2019, 08:26 PM
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Really? How?

Schiff said in the interview:

Quote:
...But there were nonetheless serious abuses of FISA which were not apparent two years ago...
He penned a memo saying the opposite was true and like I said earlier he had access to the same information as Nunes. He's lying.


He penned that memo two years ago (January 2018), which is in the same timeframe as what the above quote has him saying to Chris Wallace.

You’re not very honest yourself, are ya?
  #166  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:21 PM
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He penned that memo two years ago (January 2018), which is in the same timeframe as what the above quote has him saying to Chris Wallace.

You’re not very honest yourself, are ya?
Yes, he penned the memo two years ago in response to the Nunes memo. Both Schiff and Nunes have access to the same information because their both on the Intelligence Committee. Get yourself educated, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
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  #167  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:22 PM
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EasyPhil, just to make sure we're on the same reality plane here, even assuming Adam Schiff is the lyingest liar ever to lie and even assuming that the FBI lied their asses off when saying why they wanted the Carter Page surveillance, none of that is actually relevant to the question of whether Trump committed impeachable acts, right?

Since impeachment isn't a criminal inquiry, there really is no "fruit of the poisoned tree" concept, no getting off on technicalities. The evidence is there and is impeachable and removable or it isn't. It doesn't matter where it came from. Agreed?

If the president were removed, either through impeachment or through the election, we could have a discussion on whether this evidence is admissible in a criminal trial. I think it would be, because I think you're wrong on the facts, but there's at least a discussion to be had. However, this isn't a criminal trial.

My opinion is that the president committed impeachable offenses and should be removed from office. I imagine you disagree.

However, I think we should agree that where the evidence came from, at this point, is not relevant to the impeachment question. Agreed?
I'm not talking about impeachment, that's a whole other thread.
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  #168  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:24 PM
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Gee whiz. I have seen the light. I'm 100% convinced and I'm sure your quote of a part of a sentence does not leave out any context at all.

You're an intellectually dishonest trash bag with well below par critical thinking skills. Go fuck yourself.
I know this shit is making your head explode, believe me it will fade once you wake up out of the coma you're in.
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  #169  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:43 PM
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Yeah, no. Trump doesn't just "lie." A mere "lie" is saying six inches when it's three and a half. Trump is a massively insecure yet arrogant, selfish, hateful, petty, spiteful, liar, a man who lies right to your face about yourself. He cannot live without his lies. And his followers want his lies to be true, so they love his lies.
Hey! I told you that 3 1/2 inches thing in confidence. Plus, it was cold out. And I was measuring in metric.

What? You weren't talking about me? Forget I said anything, then...
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  #170  
Old 12-16-2019, 06:30 AM
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I'm not talking about impeachment, that's a whole other thread.
I agree with you on that, but I just wanted to make sure we're working with the same premises here. The premise is that none of this matters as to whether the president should be impeached or not. That is, how the evidence was obtained and who is heading the intelligence committee is irrelevant to the question of impeachment.
Agreed?

These threads might be interesting for historical purposes (doubtful, but possible?), but the subjects have nothing to do with the vote that the House will be taking this week and the evidence that the Senate should consider in their trial.

I'm not asking you whether the president should be impeached. That is surely a question for another thread. I'm asking whether you agree on the basic points above. I ask because you're working really hard to show something in these threads, and I'm not sure why unless you think these questions are relevant for the impeachment proceedings. I think they are not. What do you think?
  #171  
Old 12-16-2019, 10:22 AM
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I agree with you on that, but I just wanted to make sure we're working with the same premises here. The premise is that none of this matters as to whether the president should be impeached or not. That is, how the evidence was obtained and who is heading the intelligence committee is irrelevant to the question of impeachment.
Agreed?

These threads might be interesting for historical purposes (doubtful, but possible?), but the subjects have nothing to do with the vote that the House will be taking this week and the evidence that the Senate should consider in their trial.

I'm not asking you whether the president should be impeached. That is surely a question for another thread. I'm asking whether you agree on the basic points above. I ask because you're working really hard to show something in these threads, and I'm not sure why unless you think these questions are relevant for the impeachment proceedings. I think they are not. What do you think?
It's always important to know as much about the players as you can which can give you some insight into what they "might" be thinking. Schiff has shown himself to be a liar but is a better attack dog than Nadler hence the impeachment hearing took place in the house intelligence committee and not the house judicial committee. Schiff is clearly biased, he claimed to have evidence of "collusion" which nobody ever saw and he wrote a memo disputing the Nunes memo which we know see was inaccurate thanks to the IG Report. We also now see Schiff claiming he didn't know about the information brought to light in the IG Report until now which isn't true because he had access to the same intelligence information as Nunes. The Nunes memo is in accord with the IG Report findings, the Schiff memo which sought to discredit the Nunes memo is not in accord with the IG Report.
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  #172  
Old 12-16-2019, 10:28 AM
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It's always important to know as much about the players as you can which can give you some insight into what they "might" be thinking. Schiff has shown himself to be a liar but is a better attack dog than Nadler hence the impeachment hearing took place in the house intelligence committee and not the house judicial committee. Schiff is clearly biased, he claimed to have evidence of "collusion" which nobody ever saw and he wrote a memo disputing the Nunes memo which we know see was inaccurate thanks to the IG Report. We also now see Schiff claiming he didn't know about the information brought to light in the IG Report until now which isn't true because he had access to the same intelligence information as Nunes. The Nunes memo is in accord with the IG Report findings, the Schiff memo which sought to discredit the Nunes memo is not in accord with the IG Report.
Since none of this addresses my two posts in any way, I'm going to assume you're not really here to have a good-faith discussion.</Captain Obvious>

Other posters -- sorry to have wasted your time.
  #173  
Old 12-16-2019, 10:33 AM
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Since none of this addresses my two posts in any way, I'm going to assume you're not really here to have a good-faith discussion.</Captain Obvious>

Other posters -- sorry to have wasted your time.
Start an impeachment thread and I'll post my opinion there.
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  #174  
Old 12-16-2019, 10:37 AM
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Start an impeachment thread and I'll post my opinion there.
I am curious now: There have been many impeachment threads. have you posted your opinion in any of them?
  #175  
Old 12-16-2019, 10:41 AM
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Start an impeachment thread and I'll post my opinion there.
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I am curious now: There have been many impeachment threads. have you posted your opinion in any of them?

Here's one that's been going since September and now has 126 pages. Not that hard to find, actually.
  #176  
Old 12-16-2019, 10:47 AM
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I am curious now: There have been many impeachment threads. have you posted your opinion in any of them?
No I haven't primarily because it's all theater and Trump will not be removed from office. The impeachment process pretty much cements his victory in 2020.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:49 AM
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Here's one that's been going since September and now has 126 pages. Not that hard to find, actually.
Exactly.
  #178  
Old 12-16-2019, 10:51 AM
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No I haven't primarily because it's all theater and Trump will not be removed from office. The impeachment process pretty much cements his victory in 2020.
And yet you claim that if someone starts a brand new(and totally unnecessary) thread on the subject you will post your opinion on it?
  #179  
Old 12-16-2019, 10:51 AM
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I'm not talking about impeachment, that's a whole other thread.
You're not talking about anything that fucking matters. At all.
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  #180  
Old 12-16-2019, 10:53 AM
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And yet you claim that if someone starts a brand new(and totally unnecessary) thread on the subject you will post your opinion on it?
Like I said, it's all theater and Trump is assured victory in 2020 because of it.
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  #181  
Old 12-16-2019, 10:56 AM
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Like I said, it's all theater and Trump is assured victory in 2020 because of it.
So this:
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Start an impeachment thread and I'll post my opinion there.
is not true?
  #182  
Old 12-16-2019, 11:04 AM
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What EasyPhil is doing here is nothing but theater. He's just trying to waste our time and get everyone to dance by replying to him.
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  #183  
Old 12-16-2019, 11:17 AM
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Ditka was better at it.
  #184  
Old 12-16-2019, 11:24 AM
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Yeah
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  #185  
Old 12-16-2019, 11:36 AM
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What EasyPhil is doing here is nothing but theater. He's just trying to waste our time and get everyone to dance by replying to him.
The boy is a troll. A particularly stupid one at that.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:52 AM
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The boy is a troll. A particularly stupid one at that.
While I like a train wreck as much as anyone else, it would be nice to see Dopers refuse to wreck the trains. Rather than treating the EasyPhils of the board seriously, continue to have your/our conversations around their fecal offerings crying out for attention. Stop feeding the sea-lioning p-o-s.
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  #187  
Old 12-16-2019, 11:55 AM
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While I like a train wreck as much as anyone else, it would be nice to see Dopers refuse to wreck the trains. Rather than treating the EasyPhils of the board seriously, continue to have your/our conversations around their fecal offerings crying out for attention. Stop feeding the sea-lioning p-o-s.
Or try pulling your head out of your ass and see what's actually going on.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:56 AM
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While I like a train wreck as much as anyone else, it would be nice to see Dopers refuse to wreck the trains. Rather than treating the EasyPhils of the board seriously, continue to have your/our conversations around their fecal offerings crying out for attention. Stop feeding the sea-lioning p-o-s.
I disagree, to an extent - Sage Rats methodical refutation of EP (and now 'xema') meanderings are a bonus and the reason I joined -
  #189  
Old 12-16-2019, 11:58 AM
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While I like a train wreck as much as anyone else, it would be nice to see Dopers refuse to wreck the trains. Rather than treating the EasyPhils of the board seriously, continue to have your/our conversations around their fecal offerings crying out for attention. Stop feeding the sea-lioning p-o-s.
Yeah. I almost replied to him in another thread just now and then stopped myself. DNFTT
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:00 PM
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Yeah. I almost replied to him in another thread just now and then stopped myself. DNFTT
You did the right thing.
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  #191  
Old 12-16-2019, 12:21 PM
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It's always important to know as much about the players as you can which can give you some insight into what they "might" be thinking. Schiff has shown himself to be a liar but is a better attack dog than Nadler hence the impeachment hearing took place in the house intelligence committee and not the house judicial committee. Schiff is clearly biased, he claimed to have evidence of "collusion" which nobody ever saw and he wrote a memo disputing the Nunes memo which we know see was inaccurate thanks to the IG Report. We also now see Schiff claiming he didn't know about the information brought to light in the IG Report until now which isn't true because he had access to the same intelligence information as Nunes. The Nunes memo is in accord with the IG Report findings, the Schiff memo which sought to discredit the Nunes memo is not in accord with the IG Report.
Are you suggesting that the IG report could have been written AS IT CURRENTLY APPEARS in January of 2018?
  #192  
Old 12-16-2019, 12:25 PM
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I am curious now: There have been many impeachment threads. have you posted your opinion in any of them?
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Here's one that's been going since September and now has 126 pages. Not that hard to find, actually.
He hasn’t posted in that one.
  #193  
Old 12-16-2019, 12:28 PM
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The boy is a troll. A particularly stupid one at that.
Yes, of course he's a troll. Who else could start a thread under the premise that Michael Jackson was innocent?
  #194  
Old 12-16-2019, 12:54 PM
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Every single person Meet The Press interviewed was a white Trump supporter. Those are supposedly the Regular Joes they found.
Considering Kent County Michigan is 76% white. It would be much weirder if they someone who wasn't apparently white. They also voted for Trump over clinton 48-43. I heard two of the people on the panel admit the didn't support trump so it seems like they got a representative average joe panel.
  #195  
Old 12-16-2019, 01:10 PM
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Yes, of course he's a troll. Who else could start a thread under the premise that Michael Jackson was innocent?
It's my impression that the powers that be here are losing patience with this particular type of disingenuous, useless troll. I think that's why this thread was so quickly moved to the Pit. So, hopefully, we won't have him to kick around much longer.
  #196  
Old 12-16-2019, 01:14 PM
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Yeah. I almost replied to him in another thread just now and then stopped myself. DNFTT
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You did the right thing.
Are you admitting to being a troll?
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  #197  
Old 12-16-2019, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by EasyPhil View Post
You did the right thing.
Yes because you are stupid. Can't fix stupid.
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  #198  
Old 12-16-2019, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Great Antibob View Post
Ditka was better at it.
That’s not saying much.
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  #199  
Old 12-16-2019, 02:21 PM
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Are you suggesting that the IG report could have been written AS IT CURRENTLY APPEARS in January of 2018?
Lawfare Blog 2018
Quote:
The central irony of the memo prepared by House intelligence chairman Devin Nunes, we now know, is that it tried to deceive the American people in precisely the same way that it falsely accused the FBI of deceiving the FISA Court. The key question going forward is whether the memo’s authors and sponsors will face any consequences for their dishonesty. If not, we can expect to see more of the same, with potentially dire results.
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  #200  
Old 12-16-2019, 02:25 PM
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Wait, do you actually think that report supports you?

God dayumm you are stupid.
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