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Old 12-14-2019, 06:41 PM
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Employer flying tattered American flag - how annoyed should I be with this?


Some time ago, I was taking my break at work and gazing out the window, enjoying the sunshine and being quite happy I was safely on the inside of the pane considering the seventy five KPH wind gusts and sub-freezing temps outside. I happened to glance up at the American flag being flown in front of our industrial facility and saw that it was actually rather shabby and worn. It was noticeably faded and had a couple of significant tears, one stretching more than 20% of it's length. OK, fair enough, flags don't last forever and the plains state winds can shred them remarkably quickly. When a flag is significantly worn, it should be honorably retired (preferably by burning) and replaced. I figure nobody has noticed it yet, who do I inform?

By happenstance, as I was walking back to my work area, I saw both the Facilities Manager and the Senior HR Manager having a quick meeting in the hall. I figure between the two of them, they can either replace the flag or tell me who I need to notify to get the process going. I take them over to the window, point out the faded flag and they both agree, it needs to be replaced. FM agrees to take care of it.

That was three weeks ago and the flag is still there.

I'm not a particularly patriotic person. It means very little to me when an individual or organization choose to fly the American flag. Flags have become so commonplace that for the most part, they have lost all meaning to me. Flying an American flag says nothing of note about who you are and what you sincerely believe. Here's the catch though, it does say something about who you want me to believe you are. Fly a flag or don't, I don't greatly care. Fly one and then half-ass it, what message am I supposed to get from that? Continuing to fly a worn flag is far more damning to me that any bare flagpole.

I know people who want to enforce criminal penalties for violation of the US flag code. I consider this to be ridiculous, insulting and probably counter productive. That said, if you're going to fly an American flag, do it properly. And if you choose to continue to fly a needlessly tattered flag, fair enough. You can claim that as a First Amendment right. Just don't be surprised when I exercise that right myself.
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Last edited by Alpha Twit; 12-14-2019 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:48 PM
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How annoyed should you be? As annoyed as you want to be. But should you press the issue further? I don’t think so. Not worth it for you. You don’t want to be "that guy" or "that gal" even if you’re right. Not over an issue as trivial and as unrelated to your job as this.

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 12-14-2019 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 12-14-2019, 07:25 PM
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Sounds like you need to write some strongly worded letters.
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Old 12-14-2019, 08:12 PM
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I'd personally go out there and remove it. At that point, they can either get a new one or leave the pole empty. Sounds like they wouldn't even notice it was gone.
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Old 12-14-2019, 08:46 PM
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Real Americans don't refer to "kph" winds.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:02 PM
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I'd personally go out there and remove it. At that point, they can either get a new one or leave the pole empty. Sounds like they wouldn't even notice it was gone.
Sounds like a great way to get fired when they check the security footage to see who committed the "heinous crime" of dishonoring the flag. The "dishonoring" being the act of hauling it down and absconding with it. Some might even call it theft, but then surely theft is too fine a word for "unpatriotic" behavior.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:14 PM
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Call your local American Legion (or other veteran organization) and talk to them. I don't know if it will actually do any good, but the post I used to belong took stuff like that seriously; and would send folks out to the business in question and talk to them about it.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:18 PM
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Yep. I'd let it drop like a cartoon anvil. I've been sent down the road for far more trivial shit than making waves about a piece of fabric.

Last edited by Gatopescado; 12-14-2019 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ASL v2.0 View Post
Sounds like a great way to get fired when they check the security footage to see who committed the "heinous crime" of dishonoring the flag. The "dishonoring" being the act of hauling it down and absconding with it. Some might even call it theft, but then surely theft is too fine a word for "unpatriotic" behavior.
Security footage? Well if we're just going to add whatever we want to the story, and make up our own versions of this scenario, I guess any action is futile when faced with the wild and creative imagination of ASL v2.0. I can play that game too, though. After I get fired, I'll just get a newer and better job at the facility across the street. It pays double, and the managers listen to their employees. Oh, and my lawyer got me off on the "theft" conviction. And she did it pro bono...
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:33 PM
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TheCuse has the best idea: call the VFW (or American Legion). Don't say you work at this company. Just say you're a concerned citizen. They'll take it from there.

If that's a no-go for you, follow up with an email to the guys you reported it to. Just say something like, "I know how busy you are, but every time I see that tattered flag, I wonder what it's doing to our corporate image."
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Old 12-14-2019, 10:35 PM
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Real Americans don't refer to "kph" winds.
This.

I'm going to need to see Alpha Twit's birth certificate before I believe a word of this story.

Where's Sen. McCarthy when you actually need him?
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:48 AM
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All of the flags flown at our corporate location, including a Pride flag, are in really good condition. Even the ones down the street get replaced regularly, as the connection between faded flag and poor quality is too strong to ignore.

That said, some months after 9/11 I saw many ratty flags flying form cars, etc. My SIL said that it was more important to show patriotism than to be concerned with the condition of the flag.

I disagree, and I don't fly any flag. Do it right or don't do it at all.

I like the suggestion of contacting the American Legion or VFW. Probably both can provide support and dispose of the old flag.
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Old 12-15-2019, 05:36 AM
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To the OP, they’re probably a little busy. I suggest finding a flag for replacement and then approaching the Manager of HR / Facilities and asking them if you bought it and replaced the worn flag, if you could expense the cost (or better yet if they’d buy it, so no $ out of pocket to you). And then also be the one to do the replacement.

I had this same experience at a former company. I talked to HR, they ordered the new flag, and I replaced it and disposed of the old flag by quietly burning it in a small 5-gallon metal bucket. HR was happy that someone (me) took the initiative to get it done.

Just do it.

Last edited by Bullitt; 12-15-2019 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:33 AM
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Security footage?
I'd be concerned about that as well and would not just take the flag for that reason. Seems like everyone around here has cameras, businesses especially so, so it's hardly a fanciful concern.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:34 AM
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It's just a flag. It matters zero. Whole, tattered, burned, whatever.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Bear_Nenno View Post
" I'd personally go out there and remove it."
it's not your property to take down … it can be considered trespassing or vandalism … and you might be charged as "mischief with criminal intent". oh, yeah … your actions would also be influencing deviant behavior in other people as well. i mean … do you really want your next-door neighbor to repaint your house in purple … because that's his favorite color … and your red house gives him nightmares every night? think proactive … not reactive.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:44 AM
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In my area the local TV stations are always on the hunt for something to report when there's no real news.

I'd call one of them and see if they'd be interested in doing a segment on the damaged flag. And no, I'd probably not offer to be on the air.
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:20 AM
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bullitt has the right idea. I'd take it one step further if I felt as you do. Forget about reimbursement. Ask management for a green light, then use your own money and purchase a flag of similar size. Find out who lowers and raises the flag, tell them to use your replacement. Let the company retain the old one.
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:35 AM
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I would push for flag replacement fairly vigorously, including e-mails and memos to the appropriate parties. As long as you frame it as a case of "Is this the image our company wants to project?" and make it clear that you take pride in the company, I think your message will be well-received. What if half the lights were burned out at the company sign (or whatever the equivalent would be at your company)?

If management makes it clear that they want the flag to look good, it will be replaced, in spite of the facilities people complaining that it's not in this year's budget.
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Bear_Nenno View Post
Security footage? Well if we're just going to add whatever we want to the story, and make up our own versions of this scenario, I guess any action is futile when faced with the wild and creative imagination of ASL v2.0. I can play that game too, though. After I get fired, I'll just get a newer and better job at the facility across the street. It pays double, and the managers listen to their employees. Oh, and my lawyer got me off on the "theft" conviction. And she did it pro bono...
The idea that a company might have a security camera at the very least watching its front entrance (assuming that’s where the flag is—out front, could be wrong) is hardly far-fetched. As noted, this flag is not your property and it’s removal by you would technically constitute some sort of theft, tattered or not. While it certainly would seem an overreaction to me for the employer to go that route, when you turn into a crusader and make yourself a nuisance for "insert pet issue," you never know how much blowback you’ll get, or from which direction.

ETA:
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Originally Posted by GaryM View Post
In my area the local TV stations are always on the hunt for something to report when there's no real news.

I'd call one of them and see if they'd be interested in doing a segment on the damaged flag. And no, I'd probably not offer to be on the air.
See, this is exactly the kind of thing I think you should be avoiding if you value your job, anonymous or not.

This is not a case of sexual harassment or a toxic work place being overlooked by management. It’s a piece of fabric.

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 12-15-2019 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:46 AM
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I would push for flag replacement fairly vigorously, including e-mails and memos to the appropriate parties. As long as you frame it as a case of "Is this the image our company wants to project?" and make it clear that you take pride in the company, I think your message will be well-received. What if half the lights were burned out at the company sign (or whatever the equivalent would be at your company)?
This is exactly the sort of thing I would avoid doing, because god forbid someone else at your company decides to get religion over the flag and chooses to go one of the other routes suggested here by people (steal the flag or involve external organizations like the American Legion and local media). Because then youíre the prime suspect for all of these things, and all the blowback comes back on you.

So I guess you have to ask yourself, is this really the hill you want to die on? Do you think youíll be able to mobilize the social media backlash to ensure you keep your job if things move sideways, get blown way out of proportion, and management responds in draconian fashion?
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by albino_manatee View Post
it's not your property to take down … it can be considered trespassing or vandalism … and you might be charged as "mischief with criminal intent". oh, yeah … your actions would also be influencing deviant behavior in other people as well. i mean … do you really want your next-door neighbor to repaint your house in purple … because that's his favorite color … and your red house gives him nightmares every night? think proactive … not reactive.
We're talking about a place where the OP works!! I am not suggesting that some random person "steal" or "vandalize" a flag at some random facility. If this is a flag flying in front of the building where I work, and nobody else would replace it, then I would just take it down. Hell, I might even send an email explaining that I took it down.
I would hate to work at a company that would fire or arrest an employee for such a thing. The fact that many of you are so paranoid about your supervisors and how they might react to you taking a little initiative says so much. I am glad I'll never have to work at such a place

Last edited by Bear_Nenno; 12-15-2019 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ASL v2.0 View Post
The idea that a company might have a security camera at the very least watching its front entrance (assuming thatís where the flag isóout front, could be wrong) is hardly far-fetched. As noted, this flag is not your property and itís removal by you would technically constitute some sort of theft, tattered or not. While it certainly would seem an overreaction to me for the employer to go that route, when you turn into a crusader and make yourself a nuisance for "insert pet issue," you never know how much blowback youíll get, or from which direction.

ETA:

See, this is exactly the kind of thing I think you should be avoiding if you value your job, anonymous or not.

This is not a case of sexual harassment or a toxic work place being overlooked by management. Itís a piece of fabric.
A nuisance? Your job sucks and your supervisors are probably assholes. Taking initiative like this isn't a crusade. To me it's about the same as fixing a leaky faucet that you've reported to higher but they haven't fixed 3 weeks later. Would fixing that faucet get you arrested too?
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:01 PM
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Maybe we can get the town to march onto the property and take of business itself?
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:03 PM
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A nuisance? Your job sucks and your supervisors are probably assholes. Taking initiative like this isn't a crusade. To me it's about the same as fixing a leaky faucet that you've reported to higher but they haven't fixed 3 weeks later. Would fixing that faucet get you arrested too?
Fixing the faucet? Probably not. But shutting off the water, and then uninstalling and removing the faucet from the premises? I’d expect it would at least get you fired if they could link it to you.

ETA: Because let's be clear. You didn’t advocate for replacing the flag (which I also wouldn’t bother with, but I grant would be unlikely to have negative consequences for you), but removing it and leaving the flag pole bare.

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 12-15-2019 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:06 PM
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I actually had a job where I had to deal with a tattered American flag.

I was a bellman at the Holiday Inn in Joplin, Missouri, c. 1995. You could see I-44 from some of our windows, and as such, we had a yuge American flag that could be seen by cars driving down the interstate.

It was a disgrace. Tattered beyond all recognition, faded. A guest complained, so I went to the general manager. He said, "How about that. Go back to your station." So I went to the maintenance guy, hoping to gather allies in my fight to get a better flag. He was told the same thing.

Within about a week, however, the maintenance guy grabbed me and told me to come with him to the flag pole, he needed my help. Sure enough, we erected a brand-spanking new American flag.

I don't know what informed the arrival of the new flag -- whether general manager made a phone call, or whether the maintenance guy made a phone call, or maybe even a guest.
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:28 PM
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Many thanks for the thoughts expressed.

I'm kind of with ASL v2.0 here. I've made sure the relevant decision makers have the information. The ball is in their court now. Just how hard to I want to push this? There's not much I can do to force the issue without being a PITA to some members of Sr management. I'm certainly not going to fund a replacement out of my own pocket.

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Maybe we can get the town to march onto the property and take of business itself?
Close but not quite. I mentioned this to a friend of mine who just happens to run the local Scout troop. He thought this might make a good field trip and civics lesson for the group. Have them arrive in a group, all in their uniforms and request to see the plant manager. Might be interesting to watch but keep my name the hell out of it.
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:57 PM
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Call the VFW. They have a fund for flag replacement.

(As others have said, before me)
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:01 PM
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I mean, if you can get the flag for free... sure. But are the flags actually free, or does someone have to pay for it, in which case weíre right back where we started.

I know they VFW is struggling for dues-paying members (I mean, I certain my have no intention of joining myself).
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:06 PM
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...They have a fund for flag replacement.
What does that have to do with anything? I'd be deeply offended if the VFW used their limited funds to replace the flag in front of an industrial facility owned but a fortune 100 company. If the VFW can harass them into at least taking down the tattered flag (while keeping my name out of it), great. Shame is free and can even be fun. Replacing the flag costs money and if corporate wants one then they can bloody well cough up the coins for it.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:12 PM
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Fixing the faucet? Probably not. But shutting off the water, and then uninstalling and removing the faucet from the premises? Iíd expect it would at least get you fired if they could link it to you.
I guess it just depends on how bad the leak is. If it's really bad, and can't be fixed, then shutting off the water might just be the right call.
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ETA: Because let's be clear. You didnít advocate for replacing the flag (which I also wouldnít bother with, but I grant would be unlikely to have negative consequences for you), but removing it and leaving the flag pole bare.
That's true. But the scenario in the OP didn't seem to indicate these people cared for a replacement flag at all. It seems like they don't care one way or the other about having the flag. Admittedly, we're all just filling in the information gaps with our own take on the situation, so we all have a slightly different scenario on our heads. If management said something like, "We just don't have the money to replace it right now" or something like that, then I might be inclined to get a replacement. It just depends. But this struck me as a company that has probably been ignoring that flag for the past decade or so. They don't take it down or put it up; it's just kind of there. Nobody is really in charge of it, so it's never going to be dealt with. In a situation like that, I'd probably just take it down, and let them decide what they want to do from there. If it's something I'd think they even notice, and especially if there are cameras or whatever, then I'd just send an email saying, "I'm taking down that tattered flag tomorrow and putting it in the supply closet" or something like that. It's really not a super big deal.

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Originally Posted by Me
Your job sucks and your supervisors are probably assholes.
On re-read, this comes off as a lot harsher than I intended. I apologize for any offense.

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Originally Posted by Ruken
It's just a flag. It matters zero. Whole, tattered, burned, whatever.
It's just completely hideous and unsightly. Unlike albino_manatee's insinuations, it isn't a matter of taste, style, or personal preference. We're not talking about shades of paint or crown molding here. A torn-up, tattered old flag is not viewed positively by anyone, with the small exception of those intentionally trying to make a statement. People--and that includes potential customers--will view that flag in one of several ways, but none of them are positive. They are either going to not care at all, they are going to find it unsightly, or they are going to find it down right offensive. Depending on what type of company the OP works for, this may be more detrimental than neutral. It certainly won't be looked upon positively. It's like walking up to a facility with tall grass and weeds everywhere. It gives a sloppy and unkempt impression to the customers. No flag is better than a tattered flag. I personally would not want the company I work for to project such an image to the public.
It's like if there was a dead raccoon on the sidewalk near the entryway. It's fucking disgusting. Sure, some customers might not be bothered by it, but plenty will. And none of them are going to view it positively. An besides that, I don't want to have to look at it every day. Some things--such as tattered US Flags and dead raccoons--are just inherently disgusting and unsightly to look at.
If I told management about a dead raccoon out near the walkway and they still hadn't removed it a week later, I'd probably just remove it myself. A tore-up old flag? Same thing.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:36 PM
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What does that have to do with anything? I'd be deeply offended if the VFW used their limited funds to replace the flag in front of an industrial facility owned but a fortune 100 company. If the VFW can harass them into at least taking down the tattered flag (while keeping my name out of it), great. Shame is free and can even be fun. Replacing the flag costs money and if corporate wants one then they can bloody well cough up the coins for it.
Ok()
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:41 PM
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I guess it just depends on how bad the leak is. If it's really bad, and can't be fixed, then shutting off the water might just be the right call.
It sure might. But, again, removing the faucet (or the flag) is a whole new ball game that exposes you to a whole new set of responses. It's property. Donít take liberties with your employer's property beyond that which is required or at least allowed by your job. No good will come from making a nuisance of yourself, and nobody likes a busy-body on the self-appointed flag patrol. Especially when the flag goes missing, Boy Scouts show up for a field trip, or a bunch of old guys in VFW hats start railing on bout how their friend has a story about how their great-great-great-great uncle died for that flag at Shiloh.

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Unlike albino_manatee's insinuations
I just had an epiphany. Arenít all manatees albino?
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:52 PM
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Quoth the OP:

I know people who want to enforce criminal penalties for violation of the US flag code.
And how much do you want to bet that the people pushing for those criminal penalties routinely violate it themselves, by leaving it up at night or in the rain when they could take it down, or by letting it fly so long it gets tattered, or by wearing clothing patterned on it?
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:52 PM
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I would say a little annoyed. Personally I would figure out a way to access the pole and swap it off myself (a local diner had a drop box for proper disposal) but that could be one of those things that is just me. I don't mind if people want to disrespect this country; I want to myself sometimes. But I would prefer it to be on purpose and not by accident or laziness.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:57 PM
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And how much do you want to bet that the people pushing for those criminal penalties routinely violate it themselves, by leaving it up at night or in the rain when they could take it down, or by letting it fly so long it gets tattered, or by wearing clothing patterned on it?
I'm certainly not a religious person but I would suggest such people learn the lessons of Matthew 7:3-5
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There's plenty few problems in this life that can't be helped by a good day's work, a good night's sleep and a few swift kicks in the right asses.
  #37  
Old 12-15-2019, 03:39 PM
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Maybe we can get the town to march onto the property and take of business itself?
With pitchforks and torches!
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  #38  
Old 12-15-2019, 03:47 PM
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I don’t think the fact that it hasn’t been done three weeks later means that it’s been forgotten. It’s like any other non-urgent repair, maybe it’s not a priority, maybe it needs to requisitioned through channels.

I’d just stop by the facility department and check on the status of the request. It probably isn’t bothering anyone else the way it does you, most of your coworkers are probably oblivious to it (the way you were until it caught your eye).
  #39  
Old 12-15-2019, 03:56 PM
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I donít think the fact that it hasnít been done three weeks later means that itís been forgotten.
I would agree that after only 3 weeks, it's wildly premature for any kind of dramatic action.
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There's plenty few problems in this life that can't be helped by a good day's work, a good night's sleep and a few swift kicks in the right asses.
  #40  
Old 12-15-2019, 05:36 PM
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I would agree that after only 3 weeks, it's wildly premature for any kind of dramatic action.
Is there any amount of time that could pass after which dramatic action would be warranted for this? I mean, if itís your last day on the job and you want to go out with a wave of patriotic fervor, okay, but otherwise...
  #41  
Old 12-15-2019, 05:39 PM
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It's a flippin' piece of fabric. Ignore it and go on with your life.
  #42  
Old 12-15-2019, 06:56 PM
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This is an odd conversation to read if you’re from a western non-American country.
  #43  
Old 12-15-2019, 07:06 PM
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This is an odd conversation to read if youíre from a western non-American country.
We're a odd country.

I'm not sure why we're proud of that fact but, there it is.
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There's plenty few problems in this life that can't be helped by a good day's work, a good night's sleep and a few swift kicks in the right asses.
  #44  
Old 12-15-2019, 07:28 PM
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This is an odd conversation to read if youíre from a western non-American country.
Hey, when Galtieri took the Union Jack, Maggie took a cruiser with all hands to get it back.
  #45  
Old 12-15-2019, 07:50 PM
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Handcuff yourself to the flagpole and don't tell them where the key is until they bring in a new flag!

Seriously, this is not the sort of thing that would bother me in the least. However, there may be a point with regard to corporate image. The mechanism for raising/lowering the flag at my local post office broke while the flag was at full mast, so the flag ended up flying at night for a couple of weeks until they could get it fixed. After a couple of days, the postmaster put big signs in the windows that said, albeit much more politely than I'm phrasing it, "Yes, damn it, I KNOW the flag is not being taken down at sunset. The mechanism is broken. I'm getting it fixed as fast as I can, okay? Now STFU and stop bothering me."

It amazed me to think that people are such busybodies that they'd go out of their way to harass the postmaster about this. Clearly, I'm naive.

Anyway, my larger point is that evidently people do take this sort of thing seriously, so it probably isn't a good look for the company.
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  #46  
Old 12-15-2019, 08:56 PM
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Don't know if it is true or not, but I recall hearing of firms that would install flagpoles for free - or at least inexpensively - figuring they would make profits from replacement flags.

I am often confounded when I see tattered flags flying. Don't understand how anyone could view that as anything other than a LACK of respect. If you don't want to fly a flag in good repair - fine! Just don't fly a flag. North that difficult.

For the OP - I'd drop it, and would be wary of suggesting any further action by Boy Scouts, American Legion, etc. I like to keep a low profile, and wouldn't want the subsequent actions attributed to me.
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  #47  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:24 PM
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A simple way to remind them might be to send them an email like this:

About the tattered American flag next to our corporate sign in front that I mentioned to you guys: recently I happened to be at the American Legion (or VFW) having a beer with John Smith, and he said that they provide a service to properly dispose of worn American flags according to the proper protocol, and that they would be happy to do that for us. So when we replace that torn & tattered flag that is reflecting badly on our company image, we can just call John Smith at 555-1212 to dispose of the old one properly, with no cost to the company.

This will serve as a reminder to them, without nagging, but looks like you are a conscientious employee looking out for the company image & cost savings.

Last edited by Tim@T-Bonham.net; 12-15-2019 at 11:24 PM.
  #48  
Old 12-16-2019, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Bear_Nenno View Post
It's just completely hideous and unsightly. Unlike albino_manatee's insinuations, it isn't a matter of taste, style, or personal preference. We're not talking about shades of paint or crown molding here. A torn-up, tattered old flag is not viewed positively by anyone, with the small exception of those intentionally trying to make a statement. People--and that includes potential customers--will view that flag in one of several ways, but none of them are positive. They are either going to not care at all, they are going to find it unsightly, or they are going to find it down right offensive. Depending on what type of company the OP works for, this may be more detrimental than neutral. It certainly won't be looked upon positively. It's like walking up to a facility with tall grass and weeds everywhere. It gives a sloppy and unkempt impression to the customers. No flag is better than a tattered flag. I personally would not want the company I work for to project such an image to the public.
It's like if there was a dead raccoon on the sidewalk near the entryway. It's fucking disgusting. Sure, some customers might not be bothered by it, but plenty will. And none of them are going to view it positively. An besides that, I don't want to have to look at it every day. Some things--such as tattered US Flags and dead raccoons--are just inherently disgusting and unsightly to look at.
My cousin used to be really bothered by other people's messes. She's better now. But at least she didn't use her condition (or others') as an excuse to mess with other people's property.
  #49  
Old 12-16-2019, 09:25 AM
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Real Americans don't refer to "kph" winds.
This is what I came in here to say. I can't believe you would use "kph" in a discussion about the American flag and think you'd get away with it!

Do these spies even try anymore? Well, I guess he is least trying to appear patriotic by worrying about our flag.
  #50  
Old 12-16-2019, 09:36 AM
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I used to frequent a US Post Office that flew a flag daily, but it was beat to heck. It bothered me a bit, but not to the level of saying anything.

Then one day, while at the window, an elderly veteran walked up beside me and sternly told the clerk that " a beat up flag was not to be tolerated, and please inform your manager."

I guess he did, because a few days later, a brand new one was flying. Hurray.
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