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Old 07-20-2019, 11:02 AM
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Defenders of a Racist President Use Jews as Human Shields


NYT opinion piece by Michelle Goldberg

The whole thing is worth a read, but here's some excerpts.

Quote:
As Trump’s racist invective against Ilhan Omar and three other freshman Democratic congresswomen has dominated the news, the president’s defenders have used Jews as human shields, pretending that hatred of the quartet is rooted in abhorrence of anti-Semitism.
Quote:
It’s true that Omar has said things that were freighted with anti-Semitism, for which she has expressed regret. But it is grotesque to argue that that excuses racism against her, or that Trump’s taunts have anything to do with protecting Jews.
Quote:
What we’re seeing is the absurd but logical endpoint of efforts to conflate anti-Semitism with anti-Zionism, and anti-Zionism with opposition to Israel’s right-wing government.
Quote:
It’s an almost incalculable insult for Trump and his enablers to act as if he’s helping the Jews when he adopts the language of the pogrom.
We have even seen this shit on this board from a once respected poster.

Here is one of many similarly themed comments made by Scylla.

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Originally Posted by Scylla View Post
Her being a rabid anti-American and anti-Semite who has accused him of being a white Nationalist running concentration camps, is probably the relevant reason behind his ire.
But he'll gleefully distort the truth to spread anti-semitic conspiracy theories about George Soros.

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Originally Posted by Scylla View Post
I find this pretty odious:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/37703...mp-ben-shapiro

One of Soros’ organizations basically impersonated the Pittsburgh Jewish community to blame Trump for for the shooting, and suggest he wasn’t welcome in Pittsburgh. The narrative got picked up by several news sources.

But they don’t speak for anybody and in fact the head of the Synagogue that got shot up said he would welcome Trump.

So, this kind of shit.
What a piece of trash. We're not falling for your bullshit.
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Old 07-20-2019, 11:16 AM
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I was kinda hoping the time away would give Scylla some time to reflect and maybe realize the stuff he sometimes says is idiotic crap. Like trying to blame Democrats for Trump or being more concerned with the minor mistakes made by someone with a D behind their name than the gaping racism, hatred, and idiocy of the current President and the Republican base that supports him.

I was also hoping for a pony. I think I may have a shot at the pony thing though.

Last edited by Hamlet; 07-20-2019 at 11:17 AM.
  #3  
Old 07-20-2019, 02:23 PM
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He has certainly developed a penchant for weird black is white down is up style arguments that just deny reality.

Here he is denying that we live in a patriarchal society with a bunch of unrelated facts about the differences between men and women.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scylla View Post
There is no such thing as the patriarchy and no such thing as rape culture.

Men live on average 7-8? Years Less than women. 95% of prisoners in jail are men. It is overwhelmingly men who work the extreme, dangerous, backbreaking and undesirable jobs like coal mining or working the pipes on oil rigs. When there is war, it is overwhelmingly the men who get sent off to die. Women make and nurture new life, which is the be all and all of human existence.

The patriarchy is a myth.
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Old 07-20-2019, 02:37 PM
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Scylla lost his ddamned mind; I don't engage with him anymore. At all. Don't even read his posts.
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Old 07-20-2019, 02:49 PM
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GQ recently published a great article on this subject also, the takeaway of which is that The Jews Are Tired. Which is absolutely correct.

I'll follow that up with how the conversation about Israel from both the left and the right is patronizing imperialist bullshit.
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:29 PM
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I'll follow that up with how the conversation about Israel from both the left and the right is patronizing imperialist bullshit.
Amen, amen and a-fucking-men.
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:33 PM
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Did strike me as odd, that in North Carolina a cluster of MAGAts are triggered by their firm aversion to anti-Semitism. As dubious as it is laudable.
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Old 07-20-2019, 04:36 PM
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Some of Omar’s statements on the Israel-Palestine conflict have, undeniably, contained some pretty obvious anti-Semitic dog-whistles. But it’s a bit fucking rich watching MAGA Chuds accuse anyone of bigotry. It’s like, if I’m playing a game and I get caught cheating, I deserve to be called out, but Lance Armstrong better not join in.
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Old 07-20-2019, 04:50 PM
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I'll follow that up with how the conversation about Israel from both the left and the right is patronizing imperialist bullshit.
I normally find Tablet either dull or insufferable, but that is a superb piece.
  #10  
Old 07-20-2019, 05:14 PM
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I'm hopeful and confident that most of us American Jews recognize that it's white supremacists and their allies, like Trump and co, who have always been and still are the greatest threat to our existence, and thus there's no great danger of any significant number of us converting to that side.
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Old 07-20-2019, 07:59 PM
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One can rely on the unity of Jews. They hate to argue, after all.
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  #12  
Old 07-21-2019, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAF1138 View Post
GQ recently published a great article on this subject also, the takeaway of which is that The Jews Are Tired. Which is absolutely correct.

I'll follow that up with how the conversation about Israel from both the left and the right is patronizing imperialist bullshit.
Seems like an excellent lead-in to this “Scenes From a Multiverse”
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Old 07-21-2019, 02:09 PM
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That radical lefty rag Daily Kos reports, by way of WashPost, that Il Douche's minions advised him to shift his attacks to questions of patriotism rather than ethnic origins. To my gimlet eyes, he appears to equate support for Israel policies as roughly parallel to patriotism.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...-congresswomen

Quote:
...The Washington Post reported that Trump's advisers "wrote new talking points and handed him reams of opposition research" on the four congresswomen, urging him to "pivot" to attack their "patriotism" rather than on their "identity." Trump's morning tweet claiming that he doesn't "believe" they "are capable of loving our Country" appears to be his characteristically dumbed-down, bellowing interpretation of that advice.
  #14  
Old 07-21-2019, 03:03 PM
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Seems like an excellent lead-in to this “Scenes From a Multiverse”
That's brilliant.
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:21 PM
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“As an American Jew, I am profoundly outraged by the comments from Ocasio-Cortez.”

Hebrew Everyman Stephen Miller speaks out today on Fox News; is mildly reprimanded by Chris Wallace.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chris...b0419fd32e5873
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike View Post
“As an American Jew, I am profoundly outraged by the comments from Ocasio-Cortez.”

Hebrew Everyman Stephen Miller speaks out today on Fox News; is mildly reprimanded by Chris Wallace.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chris...b0419fd32e5873
As many times as Miller practiced that in the mirror (half the time with spray-on hair, half without), he still screwed up: it was Ilhan Omar, not Ocasio-Cortez, who made the arguably-anti-Semitic remarks.
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:40 PM
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As many times as Miller practiced that in the mirror (half the time with spray-on hair, half without), he still screwed up: it was Ilhan Omar, not Ocasio-Cortez, who made the arguably-anti-Semitic remarks.
I dislike defending assholes spouting bullshit, but the claimed offense was Ocasio-Cortez purportedly calling border detention centers 'concentration camps'. That is what he claims bothered his delicate sensibilities.

So, he's right in selecting the target of his ire. Just not in much else.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 07-21-2019 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:26 PM
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Is he losing his hair more? I think he's losing his hair more.
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  #19  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamerlane View Post
I dislike defending assholes spouting bullshit, but the claimed offense was Ocasio-Cortez purportedly calling border detention centers 'concentration camps'. That is what he claims bothered his delicate sensibilities.

So, he's right in selecting the target of his ire. Just not in much else.

He's another one who doesn't understand that "All 'A' are 'B' but not all 'B' are 'A'"? Those detention centers are concentration camps now, just as the "internment centers" back in the 1940s were. They're just not death camps. Oh, wait; children have been dying in the detention centers.
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Old 07-22-2019, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamerlane View Post
I dislike defending assholes spouting bullshit, but the claimed offense was Ocasio-Cortez purportedly calling border detention centers 'concentration camps'. That is what he claims bothered his delicate sensibilities.

So, he's right in selecting the target of his ire. Just not in much else.
Just because they're not German concentration camps doesn't mean they're not concentration camps. Moreover, I reject the idea that the descendants of those who survived or perished in the Holocaust automatically get exclusive ownership of its discourse.

As historian Tim Snyder put it, the real message that everyone ought to be taking from the experience of the Holocaust is "never again." What this country's government is allowing, what it seems to be encouraging, is maltreatment of the most vulnerable people in our society, which is analogous to how much of Europe treated German Jews fleeing Nazi Germany. Nobody's saying it's exactly the same thing - it doesn't have to be. People of all stripe must unite against this kind of barbarity being committed in all our names, and it starts by stripping off the protective bark of bullshit euphemisms.

These are concentration camps. Full stop.
  #21  
Old 07-22-2019, 09:16 AM
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To my gimlet eyes, he appears to equate support for Israel policies as roughly parallel to patriotism.
That's hardly new. It's been popular for a long time in some quarters to think of Israel as being the US territory in the region, and for its conduct to be uncriticizable based on US patriotism, claims that its dangerous situation requires permitting some distastefulness, and playing the good ol' Holocaust/antisemitism card. Certainly Netanyahu isn't the first Israeli leader to cultivate that possessive sentiment in the US, either.
  #22  
Old 07-22-2019, 09:25 AM
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Did strike me as odd, that in North Carolina a cluster of MAGAts are triggered by their firm aversion to anti-Semitism. As dubious as it is laudable.
Oh yes, all the synagogues in Greenville emptied out to fill up Pirates stadium.
  #23  
Old 07-22-2019, 09:45 AM
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He's another one who doesn't understand that "All 'A' are 'B' but not all 'B' are 'A'"? Those detention centers are concentration camps now, just as the "internment centers" back in the 1940s were. They're just not death camps. Oh, wait; children have been dying in the detention centers.
Has “refugee camp” been stricken from the lexicon to accommodate this self serving rhetoric?
  #24  
Old 07-22-2019, 09:50 AM
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As many times as Miller practiced that in the mirror (half the time with spray-on hair, half without), he still screwed up: it was Ilhan Omar, not Ocasio-Cortez, who made the arguably-anti-Semitic remarks.
I believe what the racist gollum meant by that was that they all look the same to him.
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:08 AM
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Has “refugee camp” been stricken from the lexicon to accommodate this self serving rhetoric?
People are allowed to leave refugee camps.
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:09 AM
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Has “refugee camp” been stricken from the lexicon to accommodate this self serving rhetoric?
No.

Do you have another mode besides asking dumb ass questions mode?
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:36 AM
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People are allowed to leave refugee camps.
Nevertheless, the fact that the migrants are desperately trying to get to the US, where they know there is a good chance they will be detained in the camps, makes the situation markedly different from concentration camps as popularly conceived. Any examples of other concentration camps where the prisoners are flooding in voluntarily?

For now, given the term “refugee camp” and the term “concentration camp”, the most accurate is “refugee camp”.

Last edited by WillFarnaby; 07-22-2019 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:54 AM
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... Any examples of other concentration camps where the prisoners are flooding in voluntarily?
....
They come to the country voluntarily. We put them in the camps. Any other examples of things you don't understand the order of?
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Old 07-22-2019, 12:48 PM
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Any other examples of things you don't understand the order of?
That's a long list, man.
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Old 07-22-2019, 12:53 PM
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He's another one who doesn't understand that "All 'A' are 'B' but not all 'B' are 'A'"?
Apparently.

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Just because they're not German concentration camps doesn't mean they're not concentration camps.
Needn't work to convince me. I just sidled in to say he wasn't mistaking Ocasio-Cortez for Omar. He's probably dumb, just not...quite...that...dumb.

Quote:
Moreover, I reject the idea that the descendants of those who survived or perished in the Holocaust automatically get exclusive ownership of its discourse.
Sure and I believe Miller's crocodile tears are about as real as Trump's love for his fellow man. It's just political grandstanding IMHO.

That said I do get how language can get emotive for some folks. I once was witness to a rather heated argument between two biology grad students, one of Jewish descent the other Armenian, over the use of the term 'Holocaust'.

It's just in this particular case I don't believe Miller* any farther than I can throw him.

ETA: *Not Miller of course, who is a paragon of forthrightness .

Last edited by Tamerlane; 07-22-2019 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 07-22-2019, 01:06 PM
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As historian Tim Snyder put it, the real message that everyone ought to be taking from the experience of the Holocaust is "never again." .
I'd say the message is 'if that could happen to early 1900's Germany, it can happen anywhere. And by the time you hit Kristallnacht, it's probably too late; you need to stop it sooner.'
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Old 07-22-2019, 01:23 PM
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Unfortunately the concept of just what it is that must never happen again is often too narrow, referring only to the ethnic group making the claim, implying that anyone else is on their own and cannot expect support from them. Genocide and ethnic cleansing, and lesser non-murderous policies and efforts, remain common in much of the world, with far too little effort to stop or prevent it.
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Old 07-22-2019, 01:44 PM
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They come to the country voluntarily. We put them in the camps. Any other examples of things you don't understand the order of?
Yes they are completely oblivious to what’s going on. That’s why they need white saviors right?
  #34  
Old 07-22-2019, 01:44 PM
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Apparently.



Needn't work to convince me. I just sidled in to say he wasn't mistaking Ocasio-Cortez for Omar. He's probably dumb, just not...quite...that...dumb.



Sure and I believe Miller's crocodile tears are about as real as Trump's love for his fellow man. It's just political grandstanding IMHO.

That said I do get how language can get emotive for some folks. I once was witness to a rather heated argument between two biology grad students, one of Jewish descent the other Armenian, over the use of the term 'Holocaust'.

It's just in this particular case I don't believe Miller* any farther than I can throw him.

ETA: *Not Miller of course, who is a paragon of forthrightness .
Fair enough.

I also wanted to clarify: I think that Jews do have exclusive ownership over the discourse of the WWII Holocaust, at least as it applies to their experience. What I meant was that they don't control the discourse if someone refers to a detention center along the border as a concentration camp anymore than a Japanese survivor of internment controls discourse over internment camps. Atrocities are atrocities. Now when people say things like "This is exactly like Auschwitz" or "There's no difference between the way the US is treating the migrants and the way Germans treated Jewish detainees," that requires push back.
  #35  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:35 PM
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Nevertheless, the fact that the migrants are desperately trying to get to the US, where they know there is a good chance they will be detained in the camps, makes the situation markedly different from concentration camps as popularly conceived. Any examples of other concentration camps where the prisoners are flooding in voluntarily?

For now, given the term “refugee camp” and the term “concentration camp”, the most accurate is “refugee camp”.
"Nevertheless".

"Nevertheless"

Everything you wrote after this is just so much garbage. "Nevertheless". So you acknowledge that these people are not allowed to leave. But but but "nevertheless"

So therefore they are not fucking "refugee camps."

Stick your "nevertheless" up your ass sideways.
  #36  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:39 PM
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Yes they are completely oblivious to what’s going on. That’s why they need white saviors right?
No, they need good, decent people who believe that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

So that leave you out.
  #37  
Old 07-22-2019, 07:05 PM
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I dislike defending assholes spouting bullshit, but the claimed offense was Ocasio-Cortez purportedly calling border detention centers 'concentration camps'. That is what he claims bothered his delicate sensibilities.
So, he's right in selecting the target of his ire. Just not in much else.
Oh, I see (thanks).

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
I believe what the racist gollum meant by that was that they all look the same to him.
That can't be entirely ruled out.
  #38  
Old 07-22-2019, 07:14 PM
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"Nevertheless".

"Nevertheless"

Everything you wrote after this is just so much garbage. "Nevertheless". So you acknowledge that these people are not allowed to leave. But but but "nevertheless"

So therefore they are not fucking "refugee camps."

Stick your "nevertheless" up your ass sideways.
As I've said before, this is why talking to Farnaby is a waste of time.

This board has an Ignore list. Just saying.
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