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Old 08-07-2019, 10:30 AM
aldiboronti is offline
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Thank the lord 8chan is down. No more mass shootings. Yay!


Are you fucking kidding me? This emphasis on 8chan in the wake of such tragedies is pure BS. Who the hell cares what some lunatic loser posted in an idiotic attempt to justify the unjustifiable? (I did see his screed but TLDR was my almost instant response.) My point is would this guy have massacred people if 8chan was unavailable? Of course he would. So why is 8chan relevant in any way to this? It isn't, or if it is it's peripheral, not part of any solution.

What is the solution? Gun control? That's of little immediate help unless you attempt to disarm everyone. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. So what? Education? That could work in the long term. We're all of equal worth, under the skin we're the same, which of course is true. But with both political parties striving against the idea of Melting Pot America, the Republicans lionizing Anglo culture, the Democrats insisting that people should adhere to their own culture whatever it be, how in hell are we supposed to come together, to feel that we're all the same? Both parties are equally guilty of stoking the fires of racial hatred, of fear of the Other, whether it be the bugaboo of unchecked immigration or the spectre of the Evil Anglo.

I don't know what the answer is but I do know that demonizing Trump or the Liberals ain't it and neither is shutting down a fucking message-board.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:38 AM
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You seem to have quite strong feelings about whether these kinds of online communities contribute to violence. Do you have any evidence to back up those feelings?
  #3  
Old 08-07-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by aldiboronti View Post
... Both parties are equally guilty of stoking the fires of racial hatred, ...
Not even close to fucking true.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:45 AM
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As I understand it, the website was peddling racial hatred as well as child pornography and a couple of software companies withdrew support, causing the site to close itself.

The answer to mass shootings is gun control.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:05 AM
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I used to think those fringe sites comprised frustrated nerds who were otherwise harmless, but according to this former white supremacist,

Quote:
Kathy Gilsinan: What role does the internet play? There’s a lot of discussion about internet radicalization for members of ISIS—is this a parallel process for white-supremacist movements, or are there differences?

Picciolini: It’s a very parallel process. The propaganda is very similar. The internet itself is a platform. Thirty years ago, marginalized, broken, angry young people had to be met face-to-face to get recruited into a movement. Nowadays, those millions and millions of young people are living most of their lives online if they don’t have real-world connections. And they’re finding a community online instead of in the real world, and having conversations about promoting violence.
So yes, 8chan and its ilk are providing a sudden community for these future mass killers. Internet anonymity keeps them safe from recrimination for the most part. Certainly if their employers found their online rantings, they'd fire them, but that would just give them more incentive to set the guns blazing. Even if algorithms sniff these people out, there's still freedom of speech issues, privacy rights and gray areas to contend with. Shutting down websites may not be that effective, but at least it would plug one leaky pipe among many.

Plus, white supremacists see Trump as their advocate. He hasn't exactly done a sterling job of dissuading them. He may issue a blanket statement every once in a while, but he usually follows up with a blame game to keep himself from being implicated, and just creates more conflict. He's the most influential man in the world right now, and if he doesn't take a harder and more sincere stance against nationalism and mass shootings, the white supremacists will feel no restraint because they see the most powerful man in the world giving them tacit approval.
  #6  
Old 08-07-2019, 11:09 AM
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Why is it that people always seem to want simplistic, one-step solutions to incredibly complex problems?

When a step is taken in the right direction, something that may have an incremental positive effect on a multi-faceted problem with vast interrelationships, why would someone bitch and moan that this step does not solve all of the problems in a single day, so it's not worth it?

Could it be that some people are simple morons, who do not understand the complexity of the problem? Or are they just assholes? Or both?
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:11 AM
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Could it be that some people are simple morons, who do not understand the complexity of the problem? Or are they just assholes? Or both?
Both. It's complicated.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:14 AM
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Plus, white supremacists see Trump as their advocate. He hasn't exactly done a sterling job of dissuading them. He may issue a blanket statement every once in a while, but he usually follows up with a blame game to keep himself from being implicated, and just creates more conflict.
Trump does not even issue a blank statement. He reads like a wooden doll off a Teleprompter.

Quote:
On Monday morning, America was still reeling from twin mass shootings that claimed at least 31 lives in El Paso and Dayton. With the nation at a crossroads, some unknown individual uploaded words into a teleprompter that were then read aloud by President Trump on national television. The rote recitations condemning white supremacy and extolling national unity sounded nothing like the Donald Trump that the nation has come to know over the last 31 months.
https://www.inquirer.com/columnists/...-20190806.html
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by aldiboronti View Post
Are you fucking kidding me? This emphasis on 8chan in the wake of such tragedies is pure BS. Who the hell cares what some lunatic loser posted in an idiotic attempt to justify the unjustifiable? (I did see his screed but TLDR was my almost instant response.) My point is would this guy have massacred people if 8chan was unavailable? Of course he would. So why is 8chan relevant in any way to this? It isn't, or if it is it's peripheral, not part of any solution.
Because communities like 8ch is where people like him go to have their ideas validated. Yes they could go elsewhere, but the idea is that you make it harder for these shitheads to find safe harbor to trade in social toxicity.

Besides, it's a business decision. The hosts have made a business decision that hosting hatred isn't good for business, and unlike apologists like you, they don't seem to be disputing that there's a link between toxic ideas and violent behavior.

Last edited by asahi; 08-07-2019 at 11:21 AM.
  #10  
Old 08-07-2019, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
I used to think those fringe sites comprised frustrated nerds who were otherwise harmless, but according to this former white supremacist,



So yes, 8chan and its ilk are providing a sudden community for these future mass killers. Internet anonymity keeps them safe from recrimination for the most part. Certainly if their employers found their online rantings, they'd fire them, but that would just give them more incentive to set the guns blazing. Even if algorithms sniff these people out, there's still freedom of speech issues, privacy rights and gray areas to contend with. Shutting down websites may not be that effective, but at least it would plug one leaky pipe among many.

Plus, white supremacists see Trump as their advocate. He hasn't exactly done a sterling job of dissuading them. He may issue a blanket statement every once in a while, but he usually follows up with a blame game to keep himself from being implicated, and just creates more conflict. He's the most influential man in the world right now, and if he doesn't take a harder and more sincere stance against nationalism and mass shootings, the white supremacists will feel no restraint because they see the most powerful man in the world giving them tacit approval.
To be clear I'm not directing this rant at you, but your post reminded me of something I thought about earlier.

No, hate speech is never, ever harmless. Some people are indeed just bored trolls who like to drop turds on legitimate sites like SDMB - I think forum moderators can deal with forum trolls. But when we're talking about spelunking into the deep crevices of the internet, where people form entire communities in which people exchange vicious, dehumanizing ideas hours and hours every day, that's something entirely different. That needs to be regulated, and not just by the good people in our society, but by the force of the law itself.

It's just beyond obvious that racists and extremists use the internet to engage with people and build communities. People are social creatures. We are influenced by what others say and what they do. There's a reason why federal law enforcement and intelligence services shut down websites and social media accounts that belong to ISIS and Al Qaida, because they've dealt with this enough to know that they're not going to buy the usual "It's just free speech" tripe.

And fuck slippery slope arguments. Like seriously, "First they came fer Stormfront!" "If we shut down Nazi sites, pretty soon, we're gonna become a country full of Nazis." Like that makes no fucking sense whatsoever.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:31 PM
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8chan is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, and there is no good reason to force private companies to fund them or do business with them in any way. I doubt that Cloudflare thinks this is going to solve any societal ills. They've just decided that the association might impact their bottom line and cut the little fuckers off.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:38 PM
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Absolutely agree with asahi's post above.

First they came for the Nazis, and...well, that was pretty much it. Good fucking riddance.

Here's a recent 538 article backing this argument up with data.
  #13  
Old 08-07-2019, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
Why is it that people always seem to want simplistic, one-step solutions to incredibly complex problems?
Because! The 24 hour news cycle waits for no one. We need to solve this NOW! A couple of simple ideas that seem like they might work is what we need. Hell, it has been several days and we still haven't solved this problem! Just how long are we supposed to remain concerned about these issues?

I am guessing tomorrow or maybe Friday.
  #14  
Old 08-07-2019, 12:55 PM
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Because! The 24 hour news cycle waits for no one. We need to solve this NOW! A couple of simple ideas that seem like they might work is what we need. Hell, it has been several days and we still haven't solved this problem! Just how long are we supposed to remain concerned about these issues?

I am guessing tomorrow or maybe Friday.
When there will be another shooting. We seem to be averaging at least one a week right now.
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:00 PM
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Osama Bin Laden is dead. No more terrorism. Yay!


It turns out the real world is a little more complicated.
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Old 08-07-2019, 04:23 PM
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Not even close to fucking true.
I am sick and tired of this damn "both sides" lying bullshit. Fuck anyone who is still peddling that shit.
  #17  
Old 08-07-2019, 04:24 PM
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8chan is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, and there is no good reason to force private companies to fund them or do business with them in any way. I doubt that Cloudflare thinks this is going to solve any societal ills. They've just decided that the association might impact their bottom line and cut the little fuckers off.
Good riddance either way.
  #18  
Old 08-07-2019, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by aldiboronti View Post
Are you fucking kidding me? This emphasis on 8chan in the wake of such tragedies is pure BS. Who the hell cares what some lunatic loser posted in an idiotic attempt to justify the unjustifiable? (I did see his screed but TLDR was my almost instant response.) My point is would this guy have massacred people if 8chan was unavailable? Of course he would. So why is 8chan relevant in any way to this? It isn't, or if it is it's peripheral, not part of any solution.
How much do you know about it already?

If you're asking, there is a pretty straightforward answer to your question. But if you're already familiar with 8chan and a poster there, then presumably you already know and have opinions about anything I would say.
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:50 PM
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When there will be another shooting. We seem to be averaging at least one a week right now.
Making sure it's always "Too soon to politicize this [insert name of town here] tragedy!"
  #20  
Old 08-07-2019, 06:44 PM
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When there will be another shooting. We seem to be averaging at least one a week right now.

It seems to be more than one a day, according to that site.
  #21  
Old 08-07-2019, 09:10 PM
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Both parties are equally guilty of stoking the fires of racial hatred, of fear of the Other, whether it be the bugaboo of unchecked immigration or the spectre of the Evil Anglo.
Absolute nonsense. The Democrats are not oppressing white people. The only people who think they are are white people who think they're entitled to get better treatment than everyone else and get upset when somebody tells them everyone's equal.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:24 PM
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...Both parties are equally guilty of stoking the fires of racial hatred..
Go throw yourself in a dick quarry with your mouth open.
  #23  
Old 08-08-2019, 11:29 PM
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...Could it be that some people are simple morons, who do not understand the complexity of the problem? Or are they just assholes? Or both?
It could be both but in the case of this specific OP I'm gonna go with asshole.
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Old 08-08-2019, 11:55 PM
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i thought it was 4chan. ..... you know the guy who created them regrets doing so and has for years .......
  #25  
Old 08-09-2019, 10:45 AM
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I'm honestly surprised any of those places hosted 8chan. I would have expected it to be running overseas on some basement servers, with a URL that constantly had to change as top level domain would notice and remove them. Or, hell being hosted inside TOR as an onion site, with only a simple front end to the wider Internet. Maybe even being run peer-to-peer, using its users as hosts. The changes 4chan went through were all basically necessary to avoid legal trouble, so I'd expect 8chan to have to try and stay hidden.

And, again, anti-racist is not a code word for anti-white, no matter what those KKK signs say. The left doesn't in any way fan racial hatred. I won't say there are no racist leftists. But they don't fan the hatred. Hating bigots is not hating white people.

The OP is repeating both Trumpist and KKK rhetoric with this "both sides" bullshit.

Last edited by BigT; 08-09-2019 at 10:48 AM.
  #26  
Old 08-09-2019, 10:47 AM
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Both parties are equally guilty of stoking the fires of racial hatred
Are you an idiot, or a fascist pretending to be an idiot?
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Old 08-09-2019, 10:59 AM
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I see no cause to doubt his sincerity.
  #28  
Old 08-09-2019, 11:36 AM
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I see no cause to doubt his sincerity.
And I'm sick of giving people who damn well should know better the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 08-09-2019, 01:42 PM
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And I'm sick of giving people who damn well should know better the benefit of the doubt.
How about the detriment of the doubt?
  #30  
Old 08-09-2019, 01:55 PM
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Are you an idiot, or a fascist pretending to be an idiot?
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I see no cause to doubt his sincerity.
Nice. This is my type of burn.
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