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  #101  
Old 07-29-2019, 02:10 PM
DPRK is offline
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There are areas like the West Bank that are not currently part of Israel and people living there have no Israeli citizenship. You can be a Palestinian or Arab or Muslim and also Israeli, but that is difficult if you live in Jericho or Ramallah, let alone Gaza.

My impression is that the number of Palestinians who are trying to gain citizenship in Israel as it now exists is pretty small- does the option exist for them, and if so, for real and not as some sort of bureaucratic hell? A lot resort to working in and travelling to Israel illegally, or via some restrictive work permit that does not confer political and social rights. Also, I imagine that many Palestinians are not too fond of the government of Israel as it now exists and that they may not jump at the idea.

Last edited by DPRK; 07-29-2019 at 02:15 PM.
  #102  
Old 07-29-2019, 02:21 PM
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Heck, I'm not too fond of the government of my nation as it now exists, either. So I vote to change it.
  #103  
Old 07-29-2019, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DPRK View Post
My impression is that the number of Palestinians who are trying to gain citizenship in Israel as it now exists is pretty small- does the option exist for them, and if so, for real and not as some sort of bureaucratic hell?
Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem legally can apply to become citizens of Israel, but it appears from, e.g., this Ha'aretz article that "bureaucratic hell" is a fair description:
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Although in principle the law allows Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem to receive Israeli citizenship, the obstacles on the way have become more and more difficult over the years. Simply getting an appointment to present the necessary documents has taken three years. Then itís another three to four years until there is a decision. [...]

Lawyers are convinced that this is not something initiated by officials in East Jerusalem but rather a deliberate Interior Ministry policy to prevent the cityís Palestinians from becoming citizens. ďItís clear that the Interior Ministry doesnít want these applications. They donít want to pollute the Population Registry with more Palestinians,Ē said Adi Lustigman, a lawyer specializing in the issue. [...]

More than 95 percent of East Jerusalemís Palestinians have residency status rather than citizenship. While the number of applications for citizenship has grown, from 69 in 2003 to more than 1,000 in 2018, very few receive a positive response.
Palestinians in the occupied territories as opposed to East Jerusalem, AFAICT, are not eligible for either Israeli residency or citizenship.
  #104  
Old 07-30-2019, 01:10 PM
Sam Stone is offline
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Jesus, listen to yourself. 5% is not pretty good as a justification for taking the other 95% (or if you include the West Bank, the other 130%).
Is that 5% an accurate depiction of the situation? My understanding was that before the creation of Israel, there were large regions of unpopulated desert. So it seems to me that a better measure would be the percentage of populated, economically valuable land that the Palestinians sold to the Jewish people.

After all, if someone bought every town and city and farm in Canada, They probably wouldn't own a significant percentage of the total area of Canada. But they would own a very high percentage of all the land that mattered.
  #105  
Old 07-30-2019, 04:52 PM
Jackmannii is offline
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Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem legally can apply to become citizens of Israel, but it appears from, e.g., this Ha'aretz article that "bureaucratic hell" is a fair description
Not that it justifies whatever Israeli policy may be, but "bureaucratic hell" is a pretty good description of qualifying for citizenship in numerous countries, including the EU (including such requirements as prolonged residency (which can be for up to 15 years), getting a societal "integration diploma", meeting fairly stringent language and national history knowledge standards, giving "loyalty" declarations etc.).

https://www.investopedia.com/article...itizenship.asp

Hard to tell what the average waiting times are once you begin the application process in various countries.

Last edited by Jackmannii; 07-30-2019 at 04:53 PM.
  #106  
Old 08-09-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike Witt View Post
If the existence of Israel is illegal, who determines that and enforces it?
Who knows.. It seems like "The West" will use the UN, etc., only when it helps, and ignore them when they disagree. What happened to the Oslo Accord?
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