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  #51  
Old 08-12-2019, 01:19 AM
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Pretty soon, Texas Man will rival Florida Man for the top news spots.
Nah, Texas is predictable and screwed up. Florida is super crazy, like driving a riding lawnmower off an overpass while dressed like a giant chicken. Florida stories have that extra something.
  #52  
Old 08-12-2019, 06:30 AM
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I feel like this is a good litmus test. Anyone who can look at this and say, "Yep, not racist" or seriously try to defend it should be given the approximate treatment present in this XKCD comic, if not far, far worse.
  #53  
Old 08-12-2019, 07:14 AM
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I feel like this is a good litmus test. Anyone who can look at this and say, "Yep, not racist" or seriously try to defend it should be given the approximate treatment present in this XKCD comic, if not far, far worse.

Excellent! Actually, I really wish certain groups in the United States would also exercise their second amendment rights. That would be awesome when some jackass shows up at a mosque during Friday prayers with their weapon and sees about forty armed (open carry on private property) people to "welcome" them.

Come to think of it, a year or few back, an American Muslim put it out on social media that he'd be doing just that. The bigots had the best meltdown.

It would've been awesome if the driver in my link upthread had been legally carrying a weapon and then when the jackass on the horse raced towards him and reached like he was reaching for a weapon, yelling "This is a Texas road", the driver whipped out his weapon and said, "Yep, and this here's a Texas weapon. Ain't that nice?"
  #54  
Old 08-12-2019, 03:59 PM
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'cause what we really need is more people pointing guns at each other.
  #55  
Old 08-12-2019, 05:46 PM
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'cause what we really need is more people pointing guns at each other.

Yeah. I know. But fantasies are really all that logical in the first place. I just like the vision of the villains getting their comeuppance.
  #56  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:00 PM
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Stupid? Yes. But the first headline I saw (Slate, I think) read "Cops on horseback drag man through Texas town". I can't find the article now but I'm certain the word "drag" was in the headline. I envisioned a man on his back or knees being, you know, dragged. The picture I saw showed the guy walking with the officers and the rope appeared slack. There was certainly no dragging going on. Maybe there are other pictures I didn't see but those kind of inflammatory headlines are irresponsible, at best. Maybe racist, maybe not. I don't the have ability to tell by a simple snapshot. Apparently, many here do. Just because it reminds people of runaway slaves being captured doesn't make it inherently racist. The way I see it, in order to be considered racist there must be some evidence that a white suspect would not have been treated in the same manner. I fail to see any such evidence. Flamesuit is on. Now I'll go look at the XKCD comic to see what fate awaits me.
  #57  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:03 PM
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... The way I see it, in order to be considered racist there must be some evidence that a white suspect would not have been treated in the same manner. I fail to see any such evidence. ..
So you've looked and haven't found such evidence? Or you haven't looked and haven't found such evidence?
  #58  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:44 AM
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The way I see it, in order to be considered racist there must be some evidence that a white suspect would not have been treated in the same manner. I fail to see any such evidence. Flamesuit is on. Now I'll go look at the XKCD comic to see what fate awaits me.
That's a bad metric, because, in most cases, you will not have a white control to test it against. There won't be a nearly identical situation with the same people but a white person in place of the black person. The only practical way to test if something is racist is simply whether or not it is consistent with other racist acts, and possibly to check if the people involved have a history of racism.

We have white cops reducing the dignity of a black prisoner, treating him like an animal. You have stated that it looks consistent with how lynchings were handled. There has also been no apology that what they did might seem racist. That is the evidence.

Your metric is one that is unlikely to be met. With everything else in life, we look for patterns, and the more patterns we see that coincide, the more sure we are. We can't expect there to be a scientific control to prove that someone would never do the same thing to a white person.

Last edited by BigT; 08-14-2019 at 10:47 AM.
  #59  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:35 PM
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I thought that being racist meant treating or regarding someone differently because of their race. Its racist to make someone sit in the back of the bus because they are black, while whites can sit wherever they want. Or make black drink from a separate water fountain. Or charge higher interest rates or deny housing etc. etc. In each of these cases there is something to compare the treatment to (bad grammar, I know). Its not for me to disprove the claim of racism by seeking examples where whites were treated the same. Its the responsibility of the person claiming racism to support the claim by producing evidence. In the other examples I mentioned there is plenty of evidence to support the claim of racism. In this particular case, not so much.
  #60  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:38 PM
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I thought that being racist meant treating or regarding someone differently because of their race. Its racist to make someone sit in the back of the bus because they are black, while whites can sit wherever they want. Or make black drink from a separate water fountain. Or charge higher interest rates or deny housing etc. etc. In each of these cases there is something to compare the treatment to (bad grammar, I know). Its not for me to disprove the claim of racism by seeking examples where whites were treated the same. Its the responsibility of the person claiming racism to support the claim by producing evidence. In the other examples I mentioned there is plenty of evidence to support the claim of racism. In this particular case, not so much.
It was racist in the context of America and American history. Even if the officers didn't intend it to be racist. By their poor judgment and (possibly) ignorance, they did something racist. Most sorts of every-day racism are from ignorance rather than malice. This is a bit more severe than every-day mundane occurrences, of course.
  #61  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:53 PM
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It was racist in the context of America and American history. Even if the officers didn't intend it to be racist. By their poor judgment and (possibly) ignorance, they did something racist. Most sorts of every-day racism are from ignorance rather than malice.
Exactly. Similarly, if a white legislator meets with a delegation of black constituents and offers them a photo-op luncheon, and what's served at the luncheon is fried chicken and watermelon, the legislator may not have intended to do something racist.

Maybe the legislator in question simply loves fried chicken and watermelon and has it for lunch every day and figured it would be the natural choice to serve anybody else. But given the longstanding use of those foods as symbols in US racist iconography, serving them to those people in those circumstances would definitely come across as racist.
  #62  
Old 08-15-2019, 02:10 PM
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... In the other examples I mentioned there is plenty of evidence to support the claim of racism. In this particular case, not so much.
It would be interesting to know when the last time this treatment was applied to a white guy.
  #63  
Old 08-15-2019, 02:13 PM
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It was racist in the context of America and American history. Even if the officers didn't intend it to be racist. By their poor judgment and (possibly) ignorance, they did something racist. Most sorts of every-day racism are from ignorance rather than malice. This is a bit more severe than every-day mundane occurrences, of course.
I work for the state government (not in Texas) and one thing weíre taught in our ethics training is that as a public employee, itís not enough to avoid doing something wrong, itís also important to make sure it doesnít look like youíre doing something wrong. For example, if you have to perform an inspection at a bar that serves alcohol, you should park your state vehicle a block or two away so that it doesnít look like youíre drinking on the job.
  #64  
Old 08-15-2019, 02:27 PM
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For example, if you have to perform an inspection at a bar that serves alcohol, you should park your state vehicle a block or two away so that it doesnít look like youíre drinking on the job.
How do you avoid being seen going into or coming out of the bar?
  #65  
Old 08-15-2019, 02:51 PM
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How do you avoid being seen going into or coming out of the bar?
Unlike your car you donít have a big sign on you. Itís not like we have uniforms, just badges.
  #66  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:25 PM
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Stupid? Yes. But the first headline I saw (Slate, I think) read "Cops on horseback drag man through Texas town". I can't find the article now but I'm certain the word "drag" was in the headline. I envisioned a man on his back or knees being, you know, dragged. The picture I saw showed the guy walking with the officers and the rope appeared slack. There was certainly no dragging going on.
Wait what?

You seem to be excusing the police because the man was walking, and was not actually exercising passive resistance and being dragged. So a headline used an incorrect word, and this makes it OK then? You think the problem was with the "dragging" part, and the rope around him was no big deal? Huh? Have you just beamed down to the planet?

Last edited by Euphonious Polemic; 08-15-2019 at 04:25 PM.
  #67  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:40 PM
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Wait what?

You seem to be excusing the police because the man was walking, and was not actually exercising passive resistance and being dragged. So a headline used an incorrect word, and this makes it OK then? You think the problem was with the "dragging" part, and the rope around him was no big deal? Huh? Have you just beamed down to the planet?
Itís not okay but being guided by rope as you walk is very different from being dragged. The headline is worthy of scorn like all sensationalized clickbait headlines that are misleading.

But the whole look and what it evokes, given Americaís past, is really bad. The incident itself is still not okay, and criticizing a headline doesnít make it less bad.
  #68  
Old 08-15-2019, 05:03 PM
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All I can think is what that poor man must have been going through. I imagine I'd have gone along with the policemen, led by rope... because they had guns and could kill me if I disobeyed or ran. Yet I'd also be terrified, wondering if I were being led to some worse death. Wondering if there's some chance I could get away safely.

The whole thing is so weird and inappropriate that the idea they were leading me to some more private spot for something awful (and unofficially sanctioned) to happen would seem quite plausible. It's not as though there's no history of this happening.

All they had to do was call a car and wait a little while. Parading a man, especially a black man, bound by rope feels more like a public display. At best, public humiliation as punishment.

Last edited by Trafalgar Laura; 08-15-2019 at 05:04 PM.
  #69  
Old 08-15-2019, 05:14 PM
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Iím wondering if a lawsuit is pending to declare a violation of human rights, particularly a violation of the 8th Amendment prohibition on cruel or unusual punishment.
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