Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:45 PM
HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by wguy123 View Post
How about the article linked to in post 13?
Yeah, that one quotes SPLC too, so you can probably imagine how I feel about it.
  #52  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:47 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 61,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Yeah, that one quotes SPLC too, so you can probably imagine how I feel about it.
Like you have an excuse to not talk about criminal and/or subversive acts?
  #53  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:49 PM
HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by wguy123 View Post
One dismissed charge from seven years ago? That has nothing to do with the OP or subject at hand? That's what you're going to hang your hat on? Alrighty then. Did someone at Team Rugged get a traffic ticket once too?
  #54  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:51 PM
HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Like you have an excuse to not talk about criminal and/or subversive acts?
We can talk about it, but it's going to be a conversation along the lines of if someone had posted some Media Matters press release. Sure, we can discuss the subject, but let's not pretend nor delude ourselves that the source doesn't have an angle here.
  #55  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:51 PM
wguy123 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
One dismissed charge from seven years ago? That has nothing to do with the OP or subject at hand? That's what you're going to hang your hat on? Alrighty then. Did someone at Team Rugged get a traffic ticket once too?
This is a thread about Matt Shea. I didn't know the OP stipulated time limits on his discussion of Matt Shea. Thanks for setting me straight.
  #56  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:53 PM
HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by wguy123 View Post
This is a thread about Matt Shea. I didn't know the OP stipulated time limits on his discussion of Matt Shea. Thanks for setting me straight.
Fair enough. One dismissed charge from seven years ago. Is that the extent of Matt Shea's "criminal behaviour"? Or is there something else you'd like to present for our consideration?
  #57  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:59 PM
Skywatcher's Avatar
Skywatcher is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Somewhere in the Potomac
Posts: 34,755
Speaking of Media Matters, look what Google found:
Quote:
[Alliance Defending Freedom] allied attorney Matt Shea has served as Washington state representative for over a decade, and he touts his ties to ADF in both his campaign and government biographies. Shea is also a co-founder of the Washington Family Foundation, which is an anti-LGBTQ organization that later merged with the Family Policy Institute of Washington. The group is affiliated with the Family Policy Alliance and extreme anti-LGBTQ group Family Research Council. During his 2018 reelection campaign, Shea acknowledged that “he had distributed a four-page manifesto titled ‘Biblical Basis for War,’” which included violent language about people who flout “biblical law,” stating, “If they do not yield - kill all males.” It also condemned abortion and same-sex marriage. As a state representative, Shea has voted against multiple bills promoting LGBTQ equality, and he sponsored several anti-LGBTQ bills, including one defining marriage as between a man and a woman and another that would limit access for transgender people to facilities consistent with their gender identity. His extreme views expand beyond anti-LGBTQ rhetoric; Shea also has a history of working with anti-Muslim and militia groups.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 08-15-2019 at 05:01 PM.
  #58  
Old 08-16-2019, 01:18 AM
Guest-starring: Id!'s Avatar
Guest-starring: Id! is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Half the guys I know have played around with paintball, airsoft, or BB guns like this, mostly in our youth. But the reporter sure tries hard to string it all together into something sinister-sounding. I guess he lost me when he started quoting SPLC and not in jest.

Basically, I think the Guardian is mostly yanking libs' chains. Have fun with that, I guess.
Were your paintball/airsoft/BB gun bros all hot for the biblical warfare thing?
If you can put aside your "oh-noes! Evil SPLC!!1!" pearl-clutching for a sec, was there anything specific about the SPLC in the article that you took issue with?
The Guardian is yanking our (not you) chains?
  #59  
Old 08-16-2019, 07:25 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 10,574
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
One dismissed charge from seven years ago? That has nothing to do with the OP or subject at hand? That's what you're going to hang your hat on? Alrighty then. Did someone at Team Rugged get a traffic ticket once too?
Whether Shea is a convicted felon or not, he has a history of very disturbing behavior that extends beyond just edgy political rhetoric.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...family-values/

Quote:
She said Shea insisted she walk on his left side because his sword, if he had one, would be on his right side. He said he knows nothing about that, but as a courtesy would walk between her and traffic.

Lisa Shea’s brother-in-law, Tino P. Vargas, swore in court documents that he saw Matt Shea yell at his wife, grab her arm “very hard and violently” and push her into a vehicle.

Lisa Shea said she moved out of the family home in fear, and a judge granted her a protection order.
Granted, it's not a conviction. And granted, his road rage incident was conditionally dismissed, but the point, Ditka, is that the rhetoric, the violent language in his manifestos, his "civic" activities...are consistent with other allegations of violent behavior.

The rest of us need not prove violence in a court of law to conclude that someone is a violent person. Osama Bin Laden, as far as we know, didn't personally engage in violence against the United States, but that doesn't mean he didn't deal in violence. He promoted it. He paid for it. He had a violent mind and spirit. And so do people like Matt Shea.

Last edited by asahi; 08-16-2019 at 07:27 AM.
  #60  
Old 08-16-2019, 08:48 AM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 84,404
By Shea's own words, the purpose of his camp is to train kids to kill people. Boy Scout camps do not do that. Terrorists do. You know all of those "terrorist training camps" that right wingers are always up in arms about? This is one of them.
  #61  
Old 08-16-2019, 08:52 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 10,574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
By Shea's own words, the purpose of his camp is to train kids to kill people. Boy Scout camps do not do that. Terrorists do. You know all of those "terrorist training camps" that right wingers are always up in arms about? This is one of them.
It's not just talk; it's filling young and impressionable minds with hatred of anyone not in the group. Worse, it's coming from someone who operates in a position of real power, and whose words and deeds have been ratified by voters. These are extremely dangerous fireworks we're playing around with here.
  #62  
Old 08-16-2019, 10:43 PM
GIGObuster's Avatar
GIGObuster is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 29,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Yeah, that one quotes SPLC too, so you can probably imagine how I feel about it.
I feel good in this case for the SPLC because the article from the Spokesman-Review confirms what they said about him elsewhere.

Kids, now you know why shooting the messenger is an “Ad hominem” fallacy.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 08-16-2019 at 10:45 PM.
  #63  
Old 08-16-2019, 10:56 PM
I Love Me, Vol. I's Avatar
I Love Me, Vol. I is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SF
Posts: 4,550
Quote:
Originally Posted by pohjonen View Post
Clearly some people missed the part about killing off folks who want no part of the new theocracy. Or is there really nothing malevolent in that minor detail?
You're blowing things way out of proportion here. They only plan on killing all the males.
  #64  
Old 08-17-2019, 07:14 AM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 84,404
With the implication being that they're going to keep the females alive to be raped.
  #65  
Old 08-17-2019, 01:04 PM
pohjonen's Avatar
pohjonen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Almost Idaho
Posts: 1,724
Point taken. Here's an article from last year that has his manifesto posted.

He claims that these were only thoughts for a sermon or some nonsense, but he can't be believed because in this section, lying is perfectly acceptable when Jesus is your trump card and it's for a good cause.
Quote:
l. Options:
i. Use of Deception
1. Not generally speaking only very specifically.
2. Avoiding being an accomplice to sin.
3. Do not owe the truth to someone who will abuse it
  #66  
Old 08-17-2019, 05:42 PM
nelliebly is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,533
HurricaneDitka, maybe you saw that Shea and Team Rugged are self-proclaimed Christians and assumed this was liberal bashing of Christian conservatives, but that's definitely not the case. Consider:

The leaked emails quoted in the Guardian--which I know you distrust--were obtained by the Spokane Spokesman Review, a newspaper with a conservative newspaper in a solidly red part of the state. Conservative Christians are denouncing this guy, too.

The Spokane County sheriff, Ozzie Knezovich, is a staunch Republican:
Quote:
Spokane County Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich, who has urged fellow Republicans to denounce Shea as an extremist, compared Team Rugged to the Hitler Youth of Nazi Germany. [/URL]
This guy is not in your camp. Believe me, you don't want him in your camp.
  #67  
Old 08-17-2019, 05:51 PM
Little Nemo is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 81,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
Why should they leave if they own the land?
Because they don't want just the land they own. They'll want some lebensraum. They probably feel entitled to all of the United States, which should belong only to Real Americans like them.
  #68  
Old Today, 02:06 PM
HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by nelliebly View Post
HurricaneDitka...
nelliebly, I just wanted to circle back to this to complement you on a well-done post. I don't live in Washington, so I'll probably never have the opportunity to vote for, or against, Matt Shea, and I had no plans to donate money to him or his opponent, but your post has given me more to think on and mull over than the rest of the posts in this thread combined.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017