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  #251  
Old 11-12-2016, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Munch View Post
What are your perks set at? If you made it three portals ago, you really shouldn't be having that tough of a time. How much total helium do you have?
Let's see, according to the stat screen

SPOILER:
15.1K He
Resilience 2
Meditation 5
Relentlessness 9
Carpentry 10
Artisanry 7
Range 10
Agility 4
Bait 9
Trumps 9
Pheromones 10
Packrat 9
Motivation 19
Power 21
Toughness 21
Looting 22


I'm sitting on 5590 He from this run. I suppose that's included in the 15.1K total?

I'm on z63 now, so it's definitely better than the last time I made to 60. I couldn't have finished 60 without letting the game sit for a week, I imagine. I'd say it's taken about six hours to get where I am since I posted earlier. I normally don't leave the game running in the background all day.
  #252  
Old 11-13-2016, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by levdrakon View Post
15.1K He
Resilience 2
Meditation 5
Relentlessness 9
Carpentry 10
Artisanry 7
Range 10
Agility 4
Bait 9
Trumps 9
Pheromones 10
Packrat 9
Motivation 19
Power 21
Toughness 21
Looting 22
Hmmmm... I would want Carpentry much higher - but I bet that's pretty close to half of your total helium, which is where I target it. Your last 4 are really high - I have 27.1k total helium, and those are 11/15/15/13 for me. I don't see a big need for Bait, but can be convinced otherwise - I dropped mine down on my respec this run.

Quote:
I normally don't leave the game running in the background all day.
Well there's your problem right there!
  #253  
Old 11-13-2016, 10:25 AM
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Hmmmm... I would want Carpentry much higher - but I bet that's pretty close to half of your total helium, which is where I target it. Your last 4 are really high - I have 27.1k total helium, and those are 11/15/15/13 for me. I don't see a big need for Bait, but can be convinced otherwise - I dropped mine down on my respec this run.


Well there's your problem right there!
Thanks for the advice. I probably should emphasize Carpentry more. Stuff like Bait is cheap, so I just allocate what I really want and plop whatever's left over on cheap stuff.

My laptop is prone to overheating which is why I don't leave the game running too much. I'll just have to be patient and portal some more. Every run makes me adapt and do things differently, which is part of the fun. Right now I'm cranking up my ratio of miners to farmers and lumberjacks way higher than I have before.
  #254  
Old 11-13-2016, 10:46 AM
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Resilience 2
Toughness 21
Without getting into too much math detail, let me just say that
Resilience 4
Toughness 18

is 86 helium cheaper and gives +4.5% or so more health, with no downsides. In practice you'll probably want to go to something like Res 5 Tough 18, at that range toughness should be about 13 points more than Resilience for efficiency.

There are tables on the wiki Perks page with efficient combinations of stats. Your offense looks about right, by the way. Except...

As others have mentioned, your Carpentry is waaay too low. Rule of thumb is to spend half your helium on it, so in this case 17 Carpentry is 7201 helium. You'll have to scale other things back, or perhaps just stop adding to anything else for a few runs to let Carpentry catch up to where it should be. Artisanistry is also 2 or 3 points too low, as is Phermones. I'd also be tempted to add to Agility, but that's more of a quality of life issue.

I agree with others' comments that the last 4 on the list are all too high, two or three fewer points on each of these would be better. Munch, you went too far the other way in my opinion, with 27k helium your numbers for those 4 are instead too low!

I like NewPlayerGuide(Truth) on the wiki for a baseline for perk spending.
  #255  
Old 11-13-2016, 10:57 AM
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I just checked and I've spent a little over 1K on Carpentry, and I guess I should have spent about 8K on it at this point, so I'm going to portal and do some major adjusting.

Thanks!
  #256  
Old 11-13-2016, 11:08 AM
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I decided to try the daily challenge yesterday, -76% from production and looting, and +300% enemy health for +346% helium. It hasn't actually been too bad so far, but I expect things will really slow down once I start to get up there in levels, since the low production will make it difficult to keep up with upgrades. Still, if I can get to around level 80 or so that should net somewhere around 100K helium, which would be really nice.
Yeah, I did that daily too. Dailies seem to vary a lot in desirability, but I liked that one. Enemy health is not that bad for a lot of +% bonus, same with -production.
  #257  
Old 11-13-2016, 02:52 PM
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Yeah, I did that daily too. Dailies seem to vary a lot in desirability, but I liked that one. Enemy health is not that bad for a lot of +% bonus, same with -production.
Yeah, I thought exactly the same thing. It's slower than a regular run, but manageable. I'm at level 58 right now and plan to go for as long as I can keep Block competitive. Today's challenge is just bonkers though, -48% housing capacity and reduced breed speed seems like it would just stall the game once Coordination requirements get too high, even if the helium bonus is a bit higher.
  #258  
Old 11-13-2016, 07:12 PM
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Yeah, I thought exactly the same thing. It's slower than a regular run, but manageable. I'm at level 58 right now and plan to go for as long as I can keep Block competitive. Today's challenge is just bonkers though, -48% housing capacity and reduced breed speed seems like it would just stall the game once Coordination requirements get too high, even if the helium bonus is a bit higher.
Yeah, I didn't like that one either, so I started Slow this morning. Reduced breed speed sounds like it wouldn't be too bad to me, but the -housing capacity was a deal breaker.
  #259  
Old 11-15-2016, 06:45 PM
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And here I thought that other daily challenge was bonkers...

"Enemy health increased by 120%.
Gain a stack after killing an enemy, increasing Trimp attack by 4% (additive). Stacks cap at 100, and reset when your Trimps die.
Trimps have 140% more attack on even numbered zones
Trimp max damage increased by 575% (additive).
Gain 51% less Metal, Food, Wood, and Gems from all sources
Gain a stack after killing an enemy, reducing breed speed by 0.40% (compounding). Stacks cap at 375, and reset after clearing a zone.
Trimp min damage reduced by 88% (additive).
Your Trimps breed 55.0% slower
Enemies gain a stack of Bloodthirst whenever Trimps die. Every 9 stacks, enemies will heal to full and gain an additive 50% attack. Stacks cap at 18 and reset after killing an enemy.
Enemy attack in maps increased by 180%.
Enemy attack increased by 200%.
Enemy health in maps increased by 150%.
Trimps have 36% less attack on odd numbered zones
Gain 70.0% more resources from gathering
Enemies instantly deal 500% of their attack damage when killed.
Gain a stack after killing an enemy, increasing all non Helium loot by 0.45%. Stacks cap at 500, and reset after clearing a zone.
Enemies stack a debuff with each attack, reducing Trimp attack by 7% per stack. Stacks cap at 9 and reset on Trimp death.
All housing can store 50% fewer Trimps
Enemies have a 25% chance to crit for 200% of normal damage
Enemies have a 18% chance to dodge your attacks on even zones.

Challenge has no end point, and grants an additional 293% of all helium earned before finishing. Can only be run once! Reward does not count toward Bone Portals or affect best He/Hr stat."
  #260  
Old 11-15-2016, 07:20 PM
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How do you do a daily challenge?
  #261  
Old 11-15-2016, 07:34 PM
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How do you do a daily challenge?
Just like other challenges, you select it after using a portal. You have to unlock them by reaching level 100 first, however. And don't do that one, it gives me a headache just trying to figure out what's going on there.
  #262  
Old 11-16-2016, 09:33 AM
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Just like other challenges, you select it after using a portal. You have to unlock them by reaching level 100 first, however. And don't do that one, it gives me a headache just trying to figure out what's going on there.
So what does "daily" mean? It sounds like a regular run with a challenge active. Is it intended to be completed in one day? Is it like, "you must complete zone such and such with the challenge active?" Do they change everyday, or does everyone get the same daily challenge?
  #263  
Old 11-16-2016, 09:49 AM
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So what does "daily" mean? It sounds like a regular run with a challenge active. Is it intended to be completed in one day? Is it like, "you must complete zone such and such with the challenge active?" Do they change everyday, or does everyone get the same daily challenge?
Daily as in it changes every day, 48 hours after it appears it will no longer be available. You can always choose today's or yesterday's. Once you've activated one you like there is no time limit.
  #264  
Old 11-16-2016, 01:03 PM
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. . .

Incidentally, to anyone else, that pop-up message you get when you break the planet lets you click "I'll be OK" or "I'm scared." What happens if you click "I'm scared?"

. . .
I haven't seen an answer to this - has anybody tried it? I'm just about to hit 60 for the second time, and I'm tempted. But I'm also in incredibly good shape and thinking I might try to push to 70. Will it mess me up some how?

I've found a couple of good advice sites for prestige balancing and Imp-ort purchases, but is there one that's more for boffins? I want to see they "why" behind the decisions, and am (I'm the first to admit!) not up to the math on my own.
  #265  
Old 11-16-2016, 01:11 PM
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Also, why do so few recommend magnimps as one of the first three? It seems to me that since it shows up in both maps and world, it would have the greatest overall imp-act.*
.
.
.
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.
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*Ba-dum Chiiiiiiihh
  #266  
Old 11-16-2016, 01:15 PM
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I clicked "I'm scared" last time. Didn't notice anything different at all.
  #267  
Old 11-16-2016, 02:24 PM
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Okay, I've got Tauntinp, Vanimp, Whimpimp and Magnimp. What should I get next? None of the rest sound terribly useful. Has anyone found that dropping gems, or fragments, or a few seconds of production make a significant difference?
  #268  
Old 11-16-2016, 03:04 PM
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I'm no expert, and am also open to suggestions. I just bought Feyimp to complete the set of World Map imps, and you can never really have too many gems, although that usually isn't my limiting factor so far. Next I'll maybe try Flutimp to see if it helps during the early part of a run before you unlock Explorers, and Titimp would probably be handy in later parts of a run when it starts really helping to burn through some maps. Jestimp sounds good. I usually only get a second or two's worth of loot from drops, 45 seconds is better than a poke in the eye.
  #269  
Old 11-16-2016, 03:38 PM
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So how much loot do you get in those few seconds? 5 seconds at the current rate of production? Is that it? sounds a trivial amount.
  #270  
Old 11-16-2016, 04:15 PM
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So how much loot do you get in those few seconds? 5 seconds at the current rate of production? Is that it? sounds a trivial amount.
It does sound trivial, but maybe it goes up, as you level up like the others do?

I have a question. I just got my third Golden upgrade. It always says level 0. Isn't it supposed to go up a level each time?
  #271  
Old 11-16-2016, 04:26 PM
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As far as I understand, it's level 0 at 50, level 1 at 100, level 2 at 150, etc.

That seems trivial too.
  #272  
Old 11-16-2016, 04:40 PM
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Okay, I just read up on it. They reset after each portal, so this is actually the first one I unlocked on this run. I've never reached z100, so I won't be seeing a lvl 2 anytime soon.

Yeah, pretty trivial until you can complete 100's of zones in a run.
  #273  
Old 11-16-2016, 10:08 PM
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Jestimp and Chronimp are better than you might expect. They benefit from your Looting perk, from Turkimps, from heirlooms, and from Magnimps, so it may be many times the advertised amount of seconds. I got them as my fifth and sixth choices.

Titimp was seventh for me, and I'll probably go Feyimp Flutimp and Goblimp as my last three in that order, though none of those three seem very exciting to me.

I put magnimps fourth not because they are bad, but because the top three are awesome. I could maybe see an argument with Venimps, but Whipimps and Tauntimps are far better.

The choice at level 60 is just flavor text.
  #274  
Old 11-17-2016, 01:56 AM
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I clicked "I'm scared" last time. Didn't notice anything different at all.
The story tab apologizes to you. I think that's the only difference.
  #275  
Old 11-17-2016, 10:56 AM
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I hate you people.
  #276  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:53 AM
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If it helps, I'm currently at 68 trying to reach 80, which will probably happen next month. :-)
  #277  
Old 11-18-2016, 09:14 AM
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So you thought Cookie Clicker was bad?

I give you.... Trimps.
Ummm...what is it supposed to do? I opened it up and got an empty screen with a message in the corner that said I had landed and looked hungry. Nothing more.
  #278  
Old 11-18-2016, 09:25 AM
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Yeah, it's confusing first time around.

Click on the button marked "Gather." You'll start collecting food. After a while a second box will appear allowing you to chop wood.

When you've got some food and wood, another box will appear, which allows you to build traps.

When you've got one, another box will appear, with a button for "Check traps." Clicking on this will give you your first trimp.

Set him to help you chop wood, or gather food. Build more traps. Get more trimps. Proceed from there.
  #279  
Old 11-18-2016, 12:07 PM
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If it helps, I'm currently at 68 trying to reach 80, which will probably happen next month. :-)
I feel your pain.

How many Warpstations do you guys usually buy before a Gigastation? I guess the rule of thumb is if you aren't going much farther, buy them sooner and if you're on a long run, buy more Warpstations first. I currently have 8 WS's.
  #280  
Old 11-18-2016, 01:00 PM
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I feel your pain.

How many Warpstations do you guys usually buy before a Gigastation? I guess the rule of thumb is if you aren't going much farther, buy them sooner and if you're on a long run, buy more Warpstations first. I currently have 8 WS's.
I tend to think of them as on a curve that will end roughly with me catching up to buying the last gigastation just before my target level.

Plan ahead to what your target deepest level for this run will eventually be, and then backtrack to see how steep a curve you need for things to work out.

My first 100 run, if I recall correctly, I started out on an 10+3 plan - by which I mean that I got 10 WS before my first gigastation, then 13 WS before the second, then 16, etc. Somewhere around 30 WS this became +2 and toward the end it was +1. This worked out pretty well.

The starting point I based this off of was NewPlayerGuide(Truth), where he recommends 15+3 for a run to zone 125, 20+3 for a run to 145. However, I think those numbers are intended for people grinding challenges, you can get by with a bit less if you're not in a hurry.

I'm currently on a 20+3 plan, though I'm throwing in some +4s, and am hoping to get to at least the 160s.
  #281  
Old 11-19-2016, 02:36 PM
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Ew, my Warpstations are starting to develop an eerie cast that's freaking my eyes out. I keep thinking there's a blurry spot in my vision, or on the computer screen.

Thanks for the advice and info Some Call Me... Tim. I don't have the Carpentry yet to handle that and I'm not headed quite so far yet, but it's something to aim for.

I'm trying for 10 WSs per Gigastation for now, and trying to keep up with Coordinations has got me down to one or two zones per day. Slow, but I'll end up with as much helium from this run as all my previous runs combined.
  #282  
Old 11-19-2016, 04:03 PM
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How do you all like Geneticists? I employed 120 of them, then saw my down time took a lot longer than usual, so I fired them. Maybe there's an optimal point where the extra health is an equal benefit to reproduction rate, or a Perk makes them worth using, but I'm not seeing it right now.
  #283  
Old 11-19-2016, 07:16 PM
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Geneticists should be bought for a particular purpose and sold as needed, more is not always better. Basically, breeding slows down twice as fast as hit points rise. So, if doubling your hp is required to do any damage at all to an Improbability, slowing your breeding by a factor of 4 might be worth it. It's not worth it in general without a particular reason.

The other vanilla use for geneticists is when your breeding is faster than you can fight again when your trimps die, or roughly one second. If your breeding timer (which you should turn on in settings if you haven't already) is less than a second, there's not much of a downside to buying geneticists until it takes a second or so to breed. Free HP.

Where geneticists really shine is in combination with the Anticipation perk. With all purchasable levels of Anticipation you'll do seven times the damage (+600%) if you took 30 seconds to breed the current Trimps. If you're doing something where you're not dying as often as every 30 seconds, this is awesome.

Later in the game (Zone 170, I'm not there yet either) you can unlock Geneticistassist, which automates buying and firing geneticists to adjust your breed timer to 1 second, 10 seconds, or 30 seconds.
  #284  
Old 11-21-2016, 02:00 PM
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Update to 4.0.

Pumpkimps gone, Magma in, New Masteries, and more...
  #285  
Old 11-21-2016, 04:49 PM
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What's Magma? Something way above my current pay grade I imagine.

Anyone using Autohousing? It unlocks at Z75 now. Almost there...
  #286  
Old 11-21-2016, 04:55 PM
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Autostorage, that is.
  #287  
Old 11-21-2016, 06:14 PM
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Yeah, I unlocked it today, seems really useful. The description says it works offline too, which is good since that's when I'll really need it.
  #288  
Old 11-24-2016, 11:07 AM
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Woo, made it to Z80 and beat The Prison this AM. Only made it to Z65 last time, so this is an improvement. I should probably portal and do Trapper. With all the He from this run, I should be fairly well set up for it. My He/hr is holding fairly steady, but I'm seven Coordinations behind. I just don't really feel like portaling at the moment.
  #289  
Old 11-26-2016, 07:43 AM
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Is there ever a time when you don't need to use Wormholes to get through the Coordination gap from 40 to 50?
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:31 AM
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Is there ever a time when you don't need to use Wormholes to get through the Coordination gap from 40 to 50?
Yes, absolutely. I currently have carpentry at level 31 and haven't needed any wormholes for a while now since Resorts can support over 1,500 trimps each.
  #291  
Old 11-26-2016, 03:57 PM
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How many times through the portal am I looking at to get to that point? I've portalled 6 times, my max level is z60 and I have level 12 carpentry.
  #292  
Old 11-26-2016, 09:00 PM
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How many times through the portal am I looking at to get to that point? I've portalled 6 times, my max level is z60 and I have level 12 carpentry.
It says I have spent 284K Helium on Carpentry, so I would guess quite a few more at that rate. Daily quests for 300%+ Helium really pay off, though; my last run made almost 150K Helium.
  #293  
Old 11-28-2016, 10:13 AM
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I feel your pain.

How many Warpstations do you guys usually buy before a Gigastation? I guess the rule of thumb is if you aren't going much farther, buy them sooner and if you're on a long run, buy more Warpstations first. I currently have 8 WS's.
I upgrade when buying a station is more expensive than an upgrade + 1 new station. Why buy a station when you can have two, bigger stations for the same price or less? This seems to happen at around 7 stations.
  #294  
Old 11-28-2016, 10:51 AM
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I upgrade when buying a station is more expensive than an upgrade + 1 new station. Why buy a station when you can have two, bigger stations for the same price or less? This seems to happen at around 7 stations.
The game doesn't allow you to buy them in the order of which is most economically efficient first. Once you buy that gigastation you can't go back and get those warpstations from the previous rank.

Comparing the unit cost of the next level 1 station to the current station is beside the point. The first few warpstations after you buy a gigastation are obviously worth buying, but you'll get that opportunity to buy them every time independent of whether you get the gigastation early or late. Since you'll get them either way, the cheapness of the next gigastation's first few buys shouldn't be involved in your decision of when to upgrade. The question is only whether the expensive warpstation pre-gigastation is worth it.

If you're going to look back after a few zones when you run out of Gigastations to buy and regret not buying those early warpstations, you might want to plan ahead and buy them when they're available.
  #295  
Old 11-28-2016, 03:54 PM
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What's Magma? Something way above my current pay grade I imagine.

Anyone using Autohousing? It unlocks at Z75 now. Almost there...
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Autostorage, that is.
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Yeah, I unlocked it today, seems really useful. The description says it works offline too, which is good since that's when I'll really need it.
Okay, I've got to 75, run all the maps for items at this level, and I'm not seeing it.
  #296  
Old 11-28-2016, 04:20 PM
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Okay, I've got to 75, run all the maps for items at this level, and I'm not seeing it.
It unlocks once you run a Void map after Z75.
  #297  
Old 11-28-2016, 05:20 PM
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The game doesn't allow you to buy them in the order of which is most economically efficient first. Once you buy that gigastation you can't go back and get those warpstations from the previous rank.

Comparing the unit cost of the next level 1 station to the current station is beside the point. The first few warpstations after you buy a gigastation are obviously worth buying, but you'll get that opportunity to buy them every time independent of whether you get the gigastation early or late. Since you'll get them either way, the cheapness of the next gigastation's first few buys shouldn't be involved in your decision of when to upgrade. The question is only whether the expensive warpstation pre-gigastation is worth it.

If you're going to look back after a few zones when you run out of Gigastations to buy and regret not buying those early warpstations, you might want to plan ahead and buy them when they're available.

I don't get it. Is there a point where you stop getting Giga upgrades?

I'm currently on Z76. I've currently gone up to nine warpstations @ 726K trimps. I've got a Giga, and plenty of metal and Gems to spend. I'm also 4.56M trimps away from a coordination.

I can buy 2 warpstations. I gain 1.4M trimps, and it's another 45 minutes of running Gem maps before I can buy another one. Nowhere near getting coordination.

Or I can Gigastation, then buy 7 warpstations at the reduced price. Next station I can buy in 20 minutes, if I want it.

Why wouldn't I Giga? Where's the advantage in waiting?
  #298  
Old 11-28-2016, 05:29 PM
Peter Morris's Avatar
Peter Morris is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
Or I can Gigastation, then buy 7 warpstations at the reduced price.
Meant to say, I get almost 8 million trimps, and a coordination from this.
  #299  
Old 11-28-2016, 06:35 PM
Munch is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
I don't get it. Is there a point where you stop getting Giga upgrades?
Yes. They appear in every zone from Z61-Z69. Then every two zones in the 70s, three zones in the 80s, five zones from Z95-Z170, then 10 zones from Z180-Z220. You probably aren't concerned about the high zones, but they get extremely limited, as early as the mid-70s - especially if you're spending them so quickly.
  #300  
Old 11-28-2016, 07:20 PM
Some Call Me... Tim is offline
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Let's try to make a simplified setup, say that you have only one gigastation upgrade available and you decide that you need to get a total of 100k trimps from these warpstations. This gives us two tables, one for the price and efficiency of warpstations initially, and one table for after we buy the one gigastation.
WS, metal price in Qa, cost per trimp in T
1 1. 100
2 1.4 140
3 1.96 196
4 2.74 274
5 3.84 384
6 5.38 538
7 7.53 753
8 10.5 1050
9 14.8 1480
Table for after one GS (price up 75%, capacity up 20%.) Buying the gigastation itself is the first entry on this table, as that can be thought of as including one warpstation with purchase.
1 1.75 146
2 3.06 255
3 5.36 447
4 9.38 782
5 16.4 1368
6 28.7 2396
7 50.3 4189
8 88.0 7330

Your two strategies are
A: buy whatever's cheapest per trimp at the moment, or
B: plan ahead and buy the cheapest combination from both tables that gets you over 100k.

With strategy A, you will buy the gigastation and switch over to the second table after the second warpstation, as a third warpstation costs 1.96 Qa metal while the gigastation is 1.75 Qa metal for 20% more population. In the end, to reach the 100k goal, you will buy 2@10k from table one and 7@12k from table 2. 104k trimps will cost you 117 Qa metal.

With strategy B, you will plan ahead and buy the combination that's cheapest overall rather than at the moment, buying 7 from table 1 and 3 from table 2, as that gets you over the 100k threshold while minimizing cost per trimp to under 777T. 106k trimps purchased this way will have cost you 34 Qa metal. Also, future growth over 106k trimps will be much cheaper starting at 4 in table 2 than starting at 8 in table 2 with strategy A.

In practice you'll get earlier production for earlier gigastation upgrades, so the best tactic is somewhere between the extremes of A and B.
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